Titanic for SS2010?

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[matt5674]

How about this:
Instead of Putting Titanic in the Shipyard or in the main version of Ship Simulator Extremes, why don't they put her in a Expansion pack? Ship Sim Extremes is said to get Expansion Packs so V-Step won't just keep making more Ship Sims, like Ship Simulator 2012. SSE is to be the only version from now on to get tons of expansion packs. This should Resolve the dispute of whether to Put Titanic in the Shipyard or leave her in.

[darkcapilla]

no matter where you put the Titatic in the game or at The Shipyard.
but if it gets in The Shipyard. also am not able to buy it like the other ships in The Shipyard that I like a lot but I could not get them.(Elbe and Furie)
I do not ask more quality on the Titanic. I never said it better.
use the traductor.lo feel bad if you understand my words.

[Nathan|C]

Sorry, but where do you get that information from?
In theory, a ship turns around its centre of gravity. (when it is laying still)
But you allso have hydrodynamics wich play a big role so I don't really know what to think anymore.

I think I exhaggerated a little bit biceaus what I ment has allready been fixed. But in general a lot of ships have this problem. Just take a look at this: http://80.95.161.114/shipsim/forum/index.php/topic,4664.msg47182/topicseen.html#msg47182

That has changed since then. In the dynamics that I have, the stern pushes towards the dock when the thruster is activated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5n1Gh_pdjs&feature=channel

[Kapn Jonah]

Which is pretty much what i was trying to say i just didnt know how to put it...

Sam i get this information from watching the vessel in the game, and having been on bridge visits on vessels in the past...

It's just common sense.

[Nathan|C]

What I thought you were saying is the stern stays perfectly still while the bow moves out? That isn't true, the Pride's stern does seem to move both in game and reality (see my vid).

[Kapn Jonah]

Yes, thats what i said, but i know that it does move, i just did not know how to phrase it. The stern obviously moves but not the way Sam has indicated. It's not stationary, it just moves very slowly...

Sorry for confusion

[clanky]

I was going to say "Wow I can't believe how heated people are getting about this", but it's the internet so i can believe it.

My tuppenceworth,  yes Titanic is nice, yes it gives the game a little bit of history, but it can't be realistically sailed in the environments  that are in the game (sailing past Spinnaker tower is just wrong), the other ships don't match up so that you have a 1995 built tug pushing a 1912 built ship.  The model itself is fantastic, but if implementing it in SSE is going to detract from the development of other new stuff then I would say leave it out.

There may be 10,000 forum topics demanding its return, but at least there won't be 10,000 pictures of her sinking either.

[Wave Music]

but it can't be realistically sailed in the environments  that are in the game (sailing past Spinnaker tower is just wrong), the other ships don't match up so that you have a 1995 built tug pushing a 1912 built ship. 

You can think of it as a replica, Titanic 2, etc.  There're also missions about that.

[John1000]

QM2>Titanic

[McGherkin]

SR-N4 > any ship.

It's not about which ship is better, only it's value in the game.

I think that the existance of a liner of that period is good, since that was the golden age of the liners, but not necessarily Titanic.

[mvsmith]

I agree, Sam, that Titanic is probably one of the best ships for actually maneuvering, although her dynamics have suffered somewhat from tinkering.
I don’t have an objection to her addition to Extremes, per se; only if it is at the expense of other more useful features.

I’m, in fact, the creator of arguably the longest mission for Titanic (4+ hours over five environments). So far as I know, less than a dozen players have attempted it.
The evidence indicates that Titanic is not sailed very much, at least not in a seamanlike manner. She is wanted more as an object to be looked at and walked about, and driven into an iceberg in an often disappointing effort to watch her sink.

I think my contention that she is wanted more as just a 3D model than as something to be used is borne out by the demands for her sisters. Absent any accurate performance information that provides different dynamics among the ships, there would be no difference in driving them.

The question of whether to include her in the initial release, or to make her available on the Shipyard, will be decided by VSTEP on the basis of whether it is possible to include her without postponing the release, or dropping other features.

[mvsmith]

Sorry, but where do you get that information from?
In theory, a ship turns around its centre of gravity. (when it is laying still)
But you allso have hydrodynamics wich play a big role so I don't really know what to think anymore.

I think I exhaggerated a little bit biceaus what I ment has allready been fixed. But in general a lot of ships have this problem. Just take a look at this: http://80.95.161.114/shipsim/forum/index.php/topic,4664.msg47182/topicseen.html#msg47182

Hi Sam,

You are right that the hydro forces complicate the way a ship responds to a bow thruster.
But it is not so simple even if the ship is suspended in space:
If it had, say, a rocket bow thruster it would still not simply rotate about its center of mass. It would also move sideways (translate) in the direction of thrust. This is because the thrust is resisted by the ship’s moment of inertia. This has the effect of transferring some of the thrust to act on the center of mass of the ship and push it sideways.

You could think of it as the ship using its inertia against the thruster to pry itself sideways. Or you could simply not think of it at all, as I do whenever possible.

So, the point about which any ship rotates depends upon its moment of inertia to mass ratio plus the distribution of the hydrodynamic forces. For a bow thruster, the effect is to move the pivot point aft of the center of mass. In some cases, it moves far enough aft that the ship appears to move sideways.

There is an advantage to having the pivot point aft of the stern when moving away from the dock.

Regards,
Marty

[Nathan|C]

Hi Sam. PoR is actually very close to it's real life counterpart from what Nathan has said about her. Nathan knows a lot about the PoR. That's something that no one can dispute. I'm mainly worried in Titanic's impact on how people think of ShipSim. People may not find it as a serious game if Titanic is included. Hardly anyone uses her to begin with, and the small percentage that do only use her for her looks.

I don't want people thinking I know everything about how POR handles - I know just as much as you. I have sent pictures and the bridge poster to VSTEP (with no reply however). Yes I  use 1.4

[Sam]

Well, then I think I am the only person who sails her for the ships she is.
For her dynamics.

I think Titanic should stay in the game just like she is right now.
Without any things changing.

The reason why I am so  picky about the bowthruster is biceaus with a lot of ships I get annoyed that it feels so 'wrong'.

Normally, a ships pivoting point moves to the front when making speed ahead and vice versa.
In the sim it feels like it allways stays on the same point.
And I am shure that every single ship that uses a bowthruster will have the effect that its stern will move to the opposite direction (or just a little bit). Without any current and wind and while laying still in open waters.

@kapn Johan
First you where saying that a ships stern stays stationary, I can't agree with that.

[Kapn Jonah]

@kapn Johan
First you where saying that a ships stern stays stationary, I can't agree with that.

First of all its Jonah, not Johan(thank you very much WM). If your gonna address me, spell my name right, thats just like walking up to me and saying "Hey Johan!" its not Johan, its Jonah, completely different...

Also, you'll see in my later post i corrected myself and the reasoning behind why i had made the mistake...

[mvsmith]

@kapn Johan
First you where saying that a ships stern stays stationary, I can't agree with that.

In truth, when using the bow thruster to leave a dock, if the pivot point is forward of the stern the stern will stay stationary; or it will move into the dock if there is a gap in the mask.

[Kapn Jonah]

Now you’ve gone and insulted a moderator!

No he hasn't Marty...what are you talking about? :S

[mvsmith]

Johan Mach is a Dutch moderator. I was just kidding Shane.
Jonah, you should not be so quick to jump into things you don’t understand.

And you should both be careful about making fun of a proper name. You never know who is wearing it.

[Kapn Jonah]

Marty,

I wasn't jumping into it, the comment was geared towards me, i was already "in" it, so to say. And NOBODY understood Marty, so don't just pick on me...

Not trying to tell you how to do your job, but if your gonna make a joke you shouldn't edit it into somebody's post with red font...that just puts people on alert right away. Just make a regular post...

And you should both be careful about making fun of a proper name. You never know who is wearing it.

Both?! I only asked to be called my proper name, and if you can make a joke i'm sure Shane can too Marty...

But thats just my view on the matter...

[laganviking]

As 2 letters would say...

BTT 

[Frank_VSTEP]

Gentlemen, gentlemen, it is with some amazement that I read the stuff being thrown to each other lately.

Please all of you, go back on topic and keep it friendly. A bit of good will and friendliness as well as the ability to relativize seems to be lacking sometimes. Let's all use common sense and put things in perspective here.

Whether you're a veteran, or a newbie just discovering the game, and regardless of age, the last thing our series and community need are people hassling each other and getting personal. This goes for all, myself included. We all share a common intrest for a great game series and the maritime. Let that be the driving force on this forum, not the urge to profile yourself. Thankfully 95% of the forum does this and uses its common sense.

So pretty please, with some Titanic flavoured sugar on top: gentlemen...please get a grip and get on topic.

Thanks,

Frank Dolmans
VSTEP

[Sam]

Ok, you are right.

I removed my last post to prevent it from getting worse.

I appologise.

[Ballast]

Great, even Frank had to come in to settle this. That's time that he could have spend on the development of the game... 

[Sam]

Well, that is what I call having a discussion.

One moment you can shout at eachother and another moment you get along very well.  

I hope most of the forum users are mature enough to handle that.


I was very offensive in my first post biceaus this is the old discussion again.
In stead of just leaving it as it was, someone had to bring it up again.

Right now there are three groups:
1: The group who loves Titanic biceaus of its history and its their favourite ship.
2: The group who hates Titanic biceaus group 1 wants to many attention for it.
3: The group who thinks Titanic is just a ship like any other so they don't mind it is in the game.
I think that group 1 and 2 aren't really ship enthousiats.

My favourite ship isn't Titanic.
It is Jumbo Javelin biceaus it is not a passengership and it is interesting to manoeuver.