Ship Simulator
English forum => Ship Simulator 2008 => Topic started by: Mr Robville on November 18, 2007, 16:17:55
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i read in the FAQ that there is something like an modelling program to make models for SS, but is this in development or something? (a link to the FAQ topic: http://www.shipsim.com/ShipSimForum/index.php/topic,1071.0.html )
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Hiya,
I thought I read somewhere a sort time later after this FAQ was made that the idea was not going to go a head after all. Though one thing I'd like to know is about the Subscription service that was talked about on that topic.
I quote "As an alternative to the ship SDK, to satisfy the demand of new ships, we are preparing a subscription service. Subscribers would get a new player ship every month, with a set of missions. Talented 3D ship modelers can help us to create suitable models, and even get paid by us for their effort. Our target is to start the subscription service in October. More announcements on this will follow later."
Hmm the last time I checked it's November, and yet still no subscription service and what more announcement later, how much later?? I would and by the looks of it mr robville also would like the the current stats of this.
Thank you,
Bon Voyage,
Lighthouse
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Lighthouse,
I think VSTEP have their hands full right now with straightening out the problems with the SS06 ships add-on. Probably new ships are at the bottom of the queue.
If you follow the link in the top post and then download the PDF at the end of pjotr’s post, you can get an idea of what is involved in adding ships.
If you are curious about the development environment in which the developers must work, you can download the demonstration version of Quest3D along with the manual. You can then explain to VSTEP what a trivial matter it is to make a ship or an environment. :)
http://www.quest3d.com/download/Quest3D_3_6_3_demo.exe (http://www.quest3d.com/download/Quest3D_3_6_3_demo.exe)
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Mvsmith,
I see what you mean but don't ya think one of the game developers should keep us up to date on this matter. There's been no update about it since the FAQ was posted. I just really would like to know how things are going.
BTW thanks for the link in the middle of downloading it.
Bon Voyage,
Lighthouse
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Sorry, I thought it HAD been made clear that the SDK was not being released.
Stu
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Stu,
I thought I made it clear in my first post that I though the SDK wasn't going to be released, I'm no longer talking about that, I'm talking about the subscription service to download ships, how is this going?
Bon Voyage,
Lighthouse
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Stu,
I thought I made it clear in my first post that I though the SDK wasn't going to be released, I'm no longer talking about that, I'm talking about the subscription service to download ships, how is this going?
Right. Sorry.
Stu
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Hi Stu,
No problem. Hey anyway do you happen to now anything about subscription service? Anything??
Thanks,
Bon Voyage,
Lighthouse
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There's nothing been stated. And I can honestly say I know only as much as you know.
Stu
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Thanks Stu,
Bon Voyage,
Lighthouse
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ah, that's a quite shame that there will be no SDK editor :'(
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Yes it's a big bummer for this game if that is true.
Lack of interest and a game that I probably will drop into a box of paper someday and let i dust slowly into the history... ::)
Hard to implement a SDK editor for add-ons? That must be the "joke of the year" Come on VSTEP! Show a better side of you than the better-half! :P
I stick to the Virtual Sailor until the day I see a breaking news for Ship Simulator that makes me happy. :-X
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I stick to the Virtual Sailor until the day I see a breaking news for Ship Simulator that makes me happy. :-X
Bye then :o
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it would make the game more attractive to people like me, since i am a good modeller myself (i made 3d models of: RMS Titanic, SS Carpathia & the SS Argonautica)
so it would be awsome to see my own creations in-game ;D
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Mark/Pjotr have already told you how you can get your ships into the game. I know they are working on other projects right now, but eventually you will be able to submit your ship model.
stu
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Hard to implement a SDK editor for add-ons? That must be the "joke of the year"
Thanks for your well fundamented opinion. Making an SDK for a ship simulator with the ships dynamics as complicated as shipsim 2008 costs a lot, and I mean a lot of time of our programmers. VStep has decided to invest its valuable time in other projects, so we can make this game even better and an even better new game.
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Thanks for your well fundamented opinion. Making an SDK for a ship simulator with the ships dynamics as complicated as shipsim 2008 costs a lot, and I mean a lot of time of our programmers. VStep has decided to invest its valuable time in other projects, so we can make this game even better and an even better new game.
Fine by me :)
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Thanks for your well fundamented opinion. Making an SDK for a ship simulator with the ships dynamics as complicated as shipsim 2008 costs a lot, and I mean a lot of time of our programmers. VStep has decided to invest its valuable time in other projects, so we can make this game even better and an even better new game.
What I don't understand is, why not have implemented a SDK into ShipSim from the start? VSTEP keep saying that it's going to be hard to code, but surely this could of been done from the beginning?? I realise that company issues get in the way of things like this but wouldn't it saved time and possibly money??
Please don't think I'm having a dig, I love the game just simply wanted to ask a question :)
Regards,
Adam
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Please don't think I'm having a dig, I love the game just simply wanted to ask a question :)
Regards,
Adam
In that same spirit, I believe the reason there was no SDK from the start is the same as the reason there won’t be one now. The architecture of the simulator precludes it.
Marty
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Thanks for your well fundamented opinion. Making an SDK for a ship simulator with the ships dynamics as complicated as shipsim 2008 costs a lot, and I mean a lot of time of our programmers. VStep has decided to invest its valuable time in other projects, so we can make this game even better and an even better new game.
How much does it cost in US dollars?
How many developers do you need
How many hours does it takes to make it?
What sort programming code are we talking about... C++?
Or is the simple answer... "well, we are waiting for the Quest3D developers to add this into the game engine. Until then we just have to wait".
I'm not going to state anything here. I'm just asking critical questions just like anyone else. Sure it will be a long time until anyone see my ship models in this game because I personally like a SDK better than a "subscription service".
How many 3rd part add-on developers work for VSTEP at this moment? 1...2..5...10? Where are these commercial 3rd part developers?
I bet for myself that I got a huge problem with my patience. But I have a strange feeling that the SDK is just a big dream at the moment and nothing else. I'm totally aware that you cannot build a SDK over the night. But the way VSTEP have said it it sounds like it will take years.. That just explains how advanced the CGR file format is (used by Quest3D) when it's not a open file format but just a more closed file format.
You are using XML files to add the boat physics and behavior right? Such file that you can edit in NotePad?
At the last: Thanks for your well fundamented answer Wout. :P
Maybe a developer for VSTEP can answer my questions so I can understand better the fundamentals behind this game.
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JHB,
Would you please tell us what the letters SDK stand for, and what you think they mean?
Marty
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JHB,
Would you please tell us what the letters SDK stand for, and what you think they mean?
Marty
Are you running a quiz or something...? ;) :P
SDK = Simulator Development Kit..
Do we have a winner? ;D
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Errr, wrong.
It stands for System Development Kit and misapplied to MSFS.
Can you tell us what is actually contained in the MSFS “SDK†and exactly what you would expect in an “SDK†from VSTEP?
Perhaps if you explained to the developers what the “SDK†should do, what it should consist of, and how it would work, they might understand how easy it would be.
Marty
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Simple to use SDK where, for example, the user clicks on a point of the hull and then types in thrust levels and the SDK works out turning rates based on mass, etc, would no doubt be very complex to produce such an SDK and and would need a powerful computer.
Maybe an SDK that allows you to put a ship in the game based on generic data for its type- for example (to us NON MARINERS) all oil tankers of a certain size would handle the same. All ferries are designed in similar ways and would handle similarly.
I must stress before the sailors all condemn me for the above, that using generic 'approximations' would only work to a limited degree, but might prove a compromise. This is my own suggestion and not Vstep policy.
Stu
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I don't mean to be the fussy one here, but SDK actually means Software Development Kit ;)
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Hang on. In fairness, it can mean either depending on local dialect.
Its like the motorship/motorvessel or motorcar/automobile arguement.
Or even >:( >:( >:( Tomatoe/tomato >:( >:( >:(
Stu
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Errr, wrong.
It stands for System Development Kit and misapplied to MSFS.
Can you tell us what is actually contained in the MSFS “SDK†and exactly what you would expect in an “SDK†from VSTEP?
Perhaps if you explained to the developers what the “SDK†should do, what it should consist of, and how it would work, they might understand how easy it would be.
Marty
Strange way to debate. I'm not a expert/specialist on FSX or any other simulator. You asked a question and I answered it. I don't really have to explain anything for them. They just have to find it out themselves how to make this SDK that people is requesting for this game. But we have not yet seen or heard anything about it and its very quite at the YouTube channel where they preview some new stuff "behind the scenes" of this game. I'm only a curious guy and not a genius in game development, programming, 3D modeling or what so ever. I'm just asking questions and look for answers.
Why are you really asking such questions? To prove something or to set up a scene on this forum to setup a spotlight on me because I ask serious questions around the game? Why so mad? :P
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Not mad, amused. You have indeed had the word on the “SDKâ€. It is not going to happen.
Marty
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Hello JHB,
You surely remember the SDK R.I.P. topic of Michael and this extract of Pjotr's reply,
The reason why we are not able to release a ship SDK is not because we want to keep a monopoly on new ships or anything. It is purely a technical matter. I tried to outline this pretty extensive in my posting I thought.
And I also never stated there would not be a ship dynamics editor. we may well release our internal dynamics editor in a few months, when it is stable and suitable for external use. ....
It is quite clear that the development of an application usable by end users and able to check, debug and compile to Quest3D any model cannot be done by VStep. Why, has also been explained extensively (although in small steps perhaps). To sum it up, the models are quite complex, and there exists no program or SDK (or whatever its name) now. I think VStep would heartily welcome such an application, at least for internal use, and would prefer that someone would offer to make it, instead of offering any nice ship. But they dont have it, and decided to concentrate on more important things in their view.
Some say that the possibility of modding would attract many players... I suppose VStep is aware of that, it has been repeated often enough, but they made a different choice. Dont fight the problem.
Also, many good model designers have no idea of ship design, hydrostatics or hydrodynamics. What kind of data would they use if they had a SDK, or will they transmit to VStep? Surely, the consistency of the data will need some checks.
Releasing an editor of the dynamics of the ships was envisaged in July 2007, perhaps is it still true, I would welcome it very much, but it is a totally different question.
Indeed, in my view, the aim of a simulator is (in part) to accurately reproduce the handling of different ships, somewhat like Portsim (http://www.sspa.se/), but in 3D, with many niceties like having ships walkable, external views, and .... not the same price (although I dont know how much it is), of course, and with enough fun!
My preferences go to more accurate manoeuvring characteristics, more realism in handling possibilities of the ships, for others their playground is to design nice looking and shining ships, others the time challenges, or chatting about ships or ...
All the people who ask for new ferries, new harbors, etc... know well that their chances to get it done are small, nevertheless, they are not bitter about it, (dreaming is part of the game) and will be happy with what comes, although their requests will be ignored? I am sure you already agreed with that!
But I support your request for an ship parameters editor wholeheartedly (correct?), but "SDK requiescit in pace."
Regards,
Luc
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Marty,
Give JHB his credit. He thinks the SDK is an important part of the future of the sim and he is campaigning for it to be included. I don't think we can criticise his aim.
That said, to continiously say that it's easy to make one when one has no knowledge of computer programming and then criticise the game, is maybe not fair. Realistically, how many people would use it? Be really honest. Sure, many people would give it a try but few would make good use of it- thereby costing a lot of development time that would struggle to recoup the costs through extra sales.
Stu
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At the suggestion of MVSmith, I think we should all campaign for Marmite in the sim instead of SDK.
Please see
http://www.shipsim.com/ShipSimForum/index.php/topic,3759.msg37853.html#msg37853
Thanks
Stu
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Stu, I don’t fault JHB for wanting what he calls an SDK—I’d like one also, but realistically I would not put it to good use because my modeling skills are not of the caliber required for distribution, I’d only use it to mess around with ships on my own computer.
I was questioning his understanding of the function of the “SDK†as it pertains to Ship Simulator, which is very different from either Trainz or MSFS in architecture and requirements. That term is one that has been used very loosely by gamers, and often merely consists of specifications for constructing models and writing configuration files.
Incidentally “SDK†is probably older than Carl, and originally was software and guidelines for making additions to operating systems. (At least that’s what Grandfather told me. :))
Marty