Ship Simulator
English forum => Vessel Design Group general => Development corner => Active Projects => Topic started by: The Ferry Man on April 02, 2011, 12:56:26
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So then....
Can you guess what it is yet...? :angel:
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I can... ;D
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I want it in the next edition of SSE!!! I will even buy a copy then ;)
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;D
Course, if I can do it right... hopefully we can have operating bow and stern doors/ramps too... :)
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Well, hopefully we can have it in VS at least (suits me... BTW can you build a model Pompey and Bilbao (in one or more environments too ;) )
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Well, hopefully we can have it in VS at least (suits me... BTW can you build a model Pompey and Bilbao (in one or more environments too ;) )
I already have started that !:)
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Sorry, TFM... Where's that supposed to be? And why have you got a ship other than the Pride in the photo???? Shame on you >:(
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That would be Berth 3 of Portsmouth ;)
The Bilbao would block the picture if she was in it
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Top man, Mr TFM...
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that is great
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Thanks :)
Well here she comes...
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:o WOW she look really nice :thumbs:
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Thanks
Update:
At the moment I am trying to get the windows into the right places...
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Update:
The infamous Funnel is underway now...
*Have to get the funnel right - she has probably the best funnel EVER!
(http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww134/The-Ferry-Man/Ferry%20Models/Pride%20of%20Bilbao/PrideofBilbao-8.jpg)
(http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww134/The-Ferry-Man/Ferry%20Models/Pride%20of%20Bilbao/PrideofBilbao-9.jpg)
(http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww134/The-Ferry-Man/Ferry%20Models/Pride%20of%20Bilbao/PrideofBilbao-10.jpg)
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way coool
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It's not very often that I'm lost for words...
So I'll keep just a few
1. TFM
2. IS
3. TOP
4. BLOKE
5. A
Now rearrange those 5 words
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how do u do it
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how do u do it
Do you mean "how do you rearrange 5 words" or "how do you make such good models of PO Bilbao"
If the former, just re-arrange.
If the latter, Mr TFM does it because he IS THE GOD OF ALL PO BILBAO MODELLERS. HAIL!
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no hes a gd m8 of mine and u should not mess with him and hes the best modelers
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no hes a gd m8 of mine and u should not mess with him and hes the best modelers
Are you eternally stupid? Have you bothered to READ anything?
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im sorry it feels some people just pick arguments on here?
craig, Stuart2007 said how good of a moder TFM so has not said he is a bad modder?
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OK... :-\
Anyway moving on...
(http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww134/The-Ferry-Man/Ferry%20Models/Pride%20of%20Bilbao/PrideofBilbao-11.jpg)
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She's looking good TFM.
I take it you are planning on doing the underwater hull section as well?
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I am... but thats the hard part :doh:
*Well the bulb is...
I will get it sorted :)
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In theory the bulb should just be a hemisphere on the end of a cylinder.
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Ahh
OK thanks for the tip :)
see I always thought they curved up or something like the crudely attached paint pic
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Nope, some have a dip in the top, but more modern ones tend to just be a straight cylinder behind a hemisphere.
You do know the theory behind them, right?
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I know the basics...
They are believed that the bow interferes with the bow waves, reducing them, so less energy is lost through them, making the ship more efficient.
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Yep, that's about it, they found that if they dragged a ball through the water so that it floated just below the surface there was a dip behind it, they figured that if they pushed a ball through the water just in front of a ship the dip would coincide with the bow wave and cancel it out, the fact that the ship no longer has to push through a bow wave reduces the power requirement and saves fuel.
And with heavy fuel oil currently at around $500 per tonne even a 1% reduction in consumption can mean a saving of $500 per day or more on a larger ship.
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Ahh :)
Has it been actually been proven it works on ships? I am sure I read in a book that it hasn't actually been confirmed how efficient it actually is?
Although Seeing how many ships using them (Basically all of them now) there must be something...
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Yeah it works, there is a balance between the increased friction due to surface area and the reduction in bow wave, but they test these things in test tanks and the results always prove that they reduce fuel consumption, I have known ships to be retro-fitted with bulbs (as well as other things like "rabbit ears" welded to the hull to improve water flow across the propellers, again all of these things are tested on models before anyone picks up a welding rod.
I'm not sure if it works for every hull form or for every planned service speed, but like you say the fact that almost all ships have them these days means it must work in most cases.
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Ahh
OK thanks :)
Are the "rabbit ears" the same as "Duck Tail" sponsons?
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Love the details on the funnel! You getting just better with your models!
Keep it up!
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Thanks :)
You call THAT a bow visor? :D
(http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww134/The-Ferry-Man/Ferry%20Models/Pride%20of%20Bilbao/PrideofBilbao-12.jpg)
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That would be Berth 3 of Portsmouth ;)
The Bilbao would block the picture if she was in it
how u do that to the pic?
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I made it in Kerkythea :)
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Looking good!
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TFM, I have a 'few' photos of PO Bilbao undressed and sitting in drydock. Will PM you links.
She IS looking good, TFM. Just to avoid the doubt to anyone else on here, TFM is making a damned good model... I think the best so far. And when finished, I will be surprised if Pride of Bilbao and SSE (on one disc) does not happen.
Are you listening vstep? Don't delay the inevitable... You know it's going to happen... Pride of Bilbao is coming to a computer near you... Listen to the voice... Pride of Bilbao is coming to a computer near you... When I click my fingers you will waken up and think what a great idea it will be for Pride of Bilbao to come to a computer near you...
EDIT: Clanky, the bulbous bow actually tapers in slightly towards the bottom- makes it look squashed, but for the part of the model that (shouldn't!) won't be seen, it probably doesn't matter. I've sent Mr TFM a photo with some people standing right under the bulb. for a sense of scale.
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looks good
ps: which program do you use?
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He uses Google sketch up for the modeling and then uses Kerkythea to take the pictures
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Looking good TFM :thumbs:
Kyle
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Look here for the actual state of the ship:
www.landgangen.se/forumsmf10/index.php?topic=20028.0
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Ahh nice pics - she is looking good
Thanks for the Link Bottman :)
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Nice? She looks great. The same Viking Line carpets still there... thankfully all the pee and ohno! tat has been removed.
Now... Can we campaign for a St Petersburg to Bilbao run via Portsmouth (in one environment)...
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More updates NOW!!!
Just kidding around, nice work on the bow! :thumbs:
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Look here for the actual state of the ship:
www.landgangen.se/forumsmf10/index.php?topic=20028.0
There are more photos now, since Bottman posted this. Now deck 2 has been photographed.
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OK Small update for you:
(http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww134/The-Ferry-Man/Ferry%20Models/Pride%20of%20Bilbao/PrideofBilbao-14.jpg)
Anyone every seen what the underwater part of her stern looks like? I have seen the bow, but not the stern...
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It's hot
/me takes off his sweater
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Ahh Thanks... I think...
More pics :)
(http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww134/The-Ferry-Man/Ferry%20Models/Pride%20of%20Bilbao/PrideofBilbao-15.jpg)
(http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww134/The-Ferry-Man/Ferry%20Models/Pride%20of%20Bilbao/PrideofBilbao-16.jpg)
(http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww134/The-Ferry-Man/Ferry%20Models/Pride%20of%20Bilbao/PrideofBilbao-17.jpg)
(http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww134/The-Ferry-Man/Ferry%20Models/Pride%20of%20Bilbao/PrideofBilbao-18.jpg)
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OK Small update for you:
Anyone every seen what the underwater part of her stern looks like? I have seen the bow, but not the stern...
Ask some fish
EDIT: http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/showallphotos.aspx?mmsi=215357000#top_photo
There's a pic of her sitting on a floating dry dock.
EDIT2: TFM, you've shown a cut out on the super just below the name board. I don't remember that. I've looked at photos and can't see that either- except a shadow... Are you SURE about this?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sarean/112804296/
EDIT3:
Also, you were asking for photos of the cardeck height signs.
http://www.onboardpoferries.com/fleet/archive/prideofbilbao/photographs.html
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Ask some fish
EDIT: http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/showallphotos.aspx?mmsi=215357000#top_photo
There's a pic of her sitting on a floating dry dock.
EDIT2: TFM, you've shown a cut out on the super just below the name board. I don't remember that. I've looked at photos and can't see that either- except a shadow... Are you SURE about this?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sarean/112804296/
EDIT3:
Also, you were asking for photos of the cardeck height signs.
http://www.onboardpoferries.com/fleet/archive/prideofbilbao/photographs.html
Hmm Haven't thought of asking fish...
Edit 2 - I can see it on that pic - it starts just under the Bilbao part the shadow is from a overhanging walkway
Edit 3 - thanks for the link :)
I have to say - she is a very complicated design - lots of walkways and bits...
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TFM, I really think that you're wrong on that bit about the cut out bit...
EDIT1: Hmm... Maybe you're right...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hythe-eye/2901914344/
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.shipspotting.com/photos/middle/7/4/9/176947.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/photo.php%3Flid%3D176947&usg=__5iV0Os_5L9dZunwOPlaLQLvMquk=&h=515&w=800&sz=37&hl=en&start=21&zoom=1&tbnid=mi0p_MpTYGIY4M:&tbnh=92&tbnw=143&ei=OYChTa7nBIao8AOSm9CpAw&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dpride%2Bof%2Bbilbao%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26biw%3D1579%26bih%3D715%26tbm%3Disch&um=1&itbs=1
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You should see it here
I have enhanced the picture to make it stand out more... - you can see its railing
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Oh, er, THAT cutout bit... Sorry I couldn't see for all the, err, rust....
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:doh:
Exactly... ;D
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TFM, if it's not too early to suggest this- repaints as:
Olympia
Mariella
Pride of Bilbao blue hull livery
Pride of Bilbao post 2002 livery
Bilbao
Princess Anastasia
and the most famous of all:
Pride of Bilbao rust livery
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TFM, if it's not too early to suggest this- repaints as:
and the most famous of all:
Pride of Bilbao rust livery
lol
I am not sure if VSTEP would accept numerous repaints though...
She is currently in the original Blue hull livery :)
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http://www.portoftallinn.com/terminal-a-camera
In Tallin (Sunday only)
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lol
I am not sure if VSTEP would accept numerous repaints though...
She is currently in the original Blue hull livery :)
vstep will agree to the campaign for Pride of Bilbao and Princess Anastasia (on one disc) in whatever colour we want... I'm sure that vstep can be persuaded.
EDIT: Hang on, do you REALLY want it in shipsim when VS is far more modeller friendly?
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TFM
THIS might be a good photo for youl. It'll help you quickly and efficiently develop the model of Pride of Bilbao and Pride of Santander (ex Mariella) (on one disc)...
http://www.seateamimages.com/101020.html
Not that I'm dropping hints or any suggestion of coming to Dover, finding you and locking you in a darkened cupboard until you finish it.... No not at all. Would I think of that? :angel:
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Very useful thanks :thumbs:
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@The Ferry Man:
What a rusty ship, rusty davits of liveboats can be dangerous!It's a sign of poor maintenance.
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@The Ferry Man:
What a rusty ship, rusty davits of liveboats can be dangerous!It's a sign of poor maintenance.
She spent her time in Biscay gales. It's only rust streaks. The davit runners and winding gear were all WELL greased up.
Say what you like about pee and onno! (I usually do) but you can't complain about their safety procedures. Their presentation of ships and service is, ahem, enough said. But safety is grade A1 (apart from the occasional smack against harbour walls, small pleasure yachts and goodwin sands and CPP controllers and.... oh dear I take that all back)
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@The Ferry Man:
What a rusty ship, rusty davits of liveboats can be dangerous!It's a sign of poor maintenance.
There is a huge difference between rust stains and surface rust and corrosion which is actually having an effect on the structural or operational integrity of the vessel. A passenger ship operating in UK waters receives regular inspections from port state (and flag state if she is non-UK flagged) inspectors as well as classification society surveyors, major safety issues due to the physical condition of the ship are rare.
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Well said, Clanky.
pee and ohno might be pretty grim in the appearance, service and commercial aspects but I challenge anyone to fault their safety (apart from the occasional grounding of Goodwin, the smacking into Calais port, the holing of vessels below the water line in Dover, the occasional propellor loss (see Goodwin) and the occasional "aleged" striking of small sailing yachts).
I think pee and ohno are actually very safety conscious. Although after my last trip on the Pride I'd rather jump overboard than see the same 'entertainment' or eat another iffy pasty.
(they can sue me if this is all not true)
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I don't trust the safety policy of ferry-operators. They mostly think in commercial interests over a good safety on board.
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Have you worked on many ferries MokMok?
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@Clanky:
Have you worked on many ferries MokMok?
No, I haven't. But I suspect that commercial interests take precedence over safety issues. Ferry-operators are commercial compagnies and commercialism is all about making money. Good maintanance and good safety practices take money. And in times of economic downturns spending cuts can hamper safety on board!
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@Clanky:
No, I haven't. But I suspect that commercial interests take precedence over safety issues. Ferry-operators are commercial compagnies and commercialism is all about making money. Good maintanance and good safety practices take money. And in times of economic downturns spending cuts can hamper safety on board!
That isn't true - ferries are regulary checked for safety - the Norman Voyager was detained a few years back after issues were bnrought up by a inspection team.
And P&O knows how important safety is, and knows first hand what happens when safety isn't put first
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But do governments cut spending (bezuinigen in the Dutch language) on such inspection teams?
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The gouverments are monitored by IMO, they can't really cut down on inspections.
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MokMok, yes ferry operators are commercial companies, but the consequences of having a ship detained, both in terms of loss of revenue and damaged reputation mean that a good safety policy makes good commercial sense.
I spent a long time on ferries and the safety standards are amongst the highest in the industry.
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I second that clanky, The safety culture on other ships (like anchor handlers) is absolutly terrible, and the masters of some ships aren't exactly great either. When compared to other ferry compaines P&O have one of the best safety records out there.
Anyway, hows about we get back on topic?
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@Danny:
When compared to other ferry compaines P&O have one of the best safety records out there.
Which ferry companies are safe to travel with and which ones should be avoided due to safety issues?
I know that the newer ferries which have been built after the Estonia disaster in 1994 are safer than the older ones built prior to this disaster. Older ferries are retrofitted with flood control doors on the cardeck, extra bulkhead doors behind the bow ramp and side or rear (ducktail) sponsons. But why do some ferries only get a rear (ducktail) sponson instead of side sponsons?
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What are sponsons?
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Sponsons are extra floating devices along the hull of a ferry. The will provide extra stability and prevent capsizing when water enters the cardeck of a ferry. Modern ferries do have a 'built in' sponson at the main cardeck level, like the Dutch LPD Hr.Ms. Rotterdam L800 and the newer vessels of the Stena Line. The Hr.Ms. Rotterdam L800 is a Landing Platform Dock which has a welldock, a kind of a cardeck, which can be flooded without capsizing. The thick built-in side sponsons keep her upright when the dock has been flooded.
The ferry MS Princess of Scandinavia, retrofitted with side sponsons:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/ff/Princess_of_Scandinavia_Gothenburg.jpg)
A ferry with built-in side sponsons, Hr.Ms. Rotterdam L800 Landing Platform Dock:
(http://80.95.161.114/shipsim/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19913.0;attach=81136;image)
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Sponsons are in the restaurant and go with forksons and knifesons and you use them to eat your soupsons.
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What are sponsons?
They are special air-filled tanks that aid stability
See Prince of Scandinavia
before:
http://www.faktaomfartyg.se/tor_britannia_1975_bild_8.htm
After (With Sponsons added):
http://www.faktaomfartyg.se/prince_of_scandinavia_1975_b_3.htm
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Some ferries have side sponsons like some older vessels of DFDS, but many vessels have been retrofitted with only a ducktail sponson at the stern. Why do ferries have only a ductail sponson at the stern in stead of side sponsons and will it also prevent capsizing like a side sponson does?
Like the Christian IV, former Olau Brittannia, which has a ducktail sponson at her stern.
Before adding the ducktail sponson:
(http://www.faktaomfartyg.se/christian_IV_1982_2.jpg)
Note the added ducktail sponson at her stern:
(http://www.faktaomfartyg.se/christian_IV_1982_12.jpg)
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For some hull forms the duck tail sponsons are enough for the vessel to meet the survivability criterea set in the new regs, usually these are ships with internal void spaces shich act as both a buoyancy space and an outer skin which will maintain the watertight integrity in case of a collision.
As to which companies are the safest to sail with, they all comply to the same regulations.
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Taking the name of this topic, the Pride's older sis, Mariella, has this rear 'sponson', but 'Anna'/the Pride doesn't.
Yet they are the same design... Is that just different companies- some comply with basics and some go 'overboard' or different classification societies?
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It wouldn't be different classification societies because the rules are IMO rules which are not open to interpretation by class, I would guess that both options met the criterea and the 2 different companies just chose to do it differently, in fact now that I think about it that may be the answer to MokMok's question in most cases that either will do and that companies just chose what they felt was least ugly.
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Well The Pride has nothing external.
Mariella has that big lump of metal on her backside. She looks like jennie lopez!
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Couple of update pics
I am trying to make it as acurate as possible (the plans come from a book and thus have a creasey denty thing in the middle, and aren't quite clear enough... :/), but this isn't quite so easy, so there may be some slight differences to the real thing...
(http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww134/The-Ferry-Man/Ferry%20Models/Pride%20of%20Bilbao/PoBconstr-1.jpg)
(http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww134/The-Ferry-Man/Ferry%20Models/Pride%20of%20Bilbao/PoBconstr-2.jpg)
Edit: Another small update:
(http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww134/The-Ferry-Man/Ferry%20Models/Pride%20of%20Bilbao/PoBconstr-3.jpg)
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TFM, I can't comment on the technical accuracies of dimensions etc, but that shot of her stbd qtr captures her look so well.
OK, I'm biased and make no secret of it, but this is the best model I have seen barr none.
In all seriousness, when the great day comes for her launch, I hope I will have the honour to 'test' the model. You can be sure that I will leave no rust streak un-noticed on the real one!
9.5/10 for the God of all modellers.
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Coming up for the 3 month anniversary, Mr TFM.
BTW I've found some photo evidence for the funnel. SHould taper in a bit at the top.
Bit still your best work so far by many (nautical) miles
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Ahh OK
Thanks
and yes - It will be done ;)
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Nice model.