Ship Simulator
English forum => Ship Simulator 2008 => General discussions => Topic started by: Nathan|C on April 18, 2010, 00:00:23
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Leading on from http://80.95.161.114/shipsim/forum/index.php/topic,18478.25/topicseen.html
Do you think Titanic should be in Ship Simulator Extremes? Or would you prefer to see the ship left out, and time spent on something else that you would enjoy, that opens the possibilty for more interesting missions? Perhaps you really aren't bothered?
Here's what I don't get: How does it HARM you to have the Titanic included? If someone doesn't like it, then just don't use it. A lot of people are like "I hate SS because it has Titanic". How does that make it any worse? Like, seriously. If you don't like it, just don't use it. I've never seen someone say "I don't like SS because it has the Pride of Rotterdam". They just do it to get the Titanic fans upset or so that they won't seem like 'all the rest'.
Isn't it better to have MORE ships available by default? Don't forget, a lot of people bought this game for the purpose of sailing the Titanic. A lot of people won't admit it, but it's true. I'm sure SS didn't loose any customers because it had Titanic included..::)
It "harms" us because we suddenly get a forum full of Titanic topics such as "campaign for a whole new light on the Titanic!" and "oh no! a bench is missing on the Titanic! change it or I will force a boycott against all VSTEP products!". In my opinion, she doesn't add any value to the game as a simulator. Not many people training for a career at sea are going to be working on a steam powered ocean liner. As people have said before, it would benefit more players if VSTEP were to spend time on things that are of use such as floating cranes and general cargo ships instead of modifying Titanic which I think is required to get the ship from SS08 to SSE?. The only downside I can see at the moment is that the large amount of time that has been spent on the current model would be put to waste. But, going back to the beginning of my post, Titanic really is just eyecandy in my opinion.
P.S I don't not like Titanic, it's a beautiful ship.....and whatever your opinion is, isn't it too late to dcide what is going to be in SSE and what isnt, or will that be done after more testing?
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Like it was said by many people before, the good solution would be to put her on the Shipyard. For those who want her so bad, 5 Euros wouldn't be a big deal.
Also, about 10 - 20% of installation disc/download file would be free for 2 or 3 new ships. (Sorry if that sounded way too noobie).
Or: Like RMS Canada suggested once in his early days, how about a "Steamship Simulator Extremes" (featuring all historically-accurate liners) & a separate forum for it? ;D
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It is not a question of taking Titanic out of Extremes; it is a question of the amount of effort necessary to put her in Extremes, and whether it would be reasonable to delay the release in order to do it.
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there are people like me who do not have credit card or paypal.
to buy it from the Shipyard. Humpback us who want the titanic? because you or others want to remove it? very well.. :thumbdown:
I'm going is that I leave here. :'(
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Darkcapilla,
If you have no way to buy Titanic from the Shipyard, then you have no way to buy Extremes from VSTEP either.
You are not the first petulant child to throw a tantrum and threaten not to buy the simulator. If your only reason for buying Extremes is to have Titanic, that would be foolish. You can always fire up SS 2008 to look at Titanic.
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Darkcapilla,
If you have no way to buy Titanic from the Shipyard, then you have no way to buy Extremes from VSTEP either.
You are not the first petulant child to throw a tantrum and threaten not to buy the simulator. If your only reason for buying Extremes is to have Titanic, that would be foolish. You can always fire up SS 2008 to look at Titanic.
hey before you say anything look at my edad.19 years. :captain:
Ship Simulator Extreme will be in European stores. Stop talking nonsense.
think before you speak. you're not as Global Moderator. :thumbdown:
this is very important not only for me but to others tambien.uno want quality and ship Simulator 2008 will cease to be a long time. Antos I do? wait for the new delivery will not? Now I learn that want to take the Titanic for future games .. how you would you say? :-\
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAWFnHKIX98&feature=player_embedded
5:13 ish.. Though disregard the expected release date. ;D
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAWFnHKIX98&feature=player_embedded
5:13 ish.. Though disregard the expected release date. ;D
Mad_Fred sorry but the voices of the video do not understand because they are in English.
if you say you put me in the video would be helpful. :2thumbs:
be so kind as always :angel:
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He said that the Titanic is and will be included. :)
to thank You But Knew That would be in SSE. What Is That I Complain of Not In future games Because of a Few.
as I said all thanks Mad Fred and DarkChestOfWonders.
how many more ships in the simulator is more fun. :evil:
I do not hate any vessel. because they all serve to navigate. :captain:
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Please do not leave. :)
I can assure you, they are not taking Titanic out of SSEx. It's just a few members here who like to get people upset by claiming VSTEP should remove her. Clearly it's worked to drive people away. >:(
Yes Shane...because I like to waste my time driving people I don't even know away from I forum a rarely even visit anymore... ::)
No, I have better things to do. Read my post again, and then you'll see I (and a few others) have made a perfectly good point on why Titanic would be better off not in SSE, or in at a later date (Shipyard). And as for your dropping POR point...well that's kinda what I'm saying. POR has a purpose...it's a modern ferry with bow thrusters, radar everything...the kind of ship that has value in a modern sim like this...not a steamship for which the only use is eyecandy.
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Hi Nathan,
I think Shane is doing a disservice to darkcapilla by making promises he cannot keep, on a subject of which he has little real knowledge.
If darkcapilla really does not want to buy Extremes if it does not include Titanic, and if, as he claims, he would be unable to get it from the shipyard, then it is irresponsible to assure him that he would not be wasting his money.
There are many problems in getting the existing ships to work correctly in a new sea model. Titanic, in particular, is a problem because of her high poly count, and attempts to satisfy some of the requests for changes and enhancements.
A decision may have to be made whether to expend resources on her instead of on other problems that must be solved before Beta testing is completed.
Extremes has many new features that users will enjoy, and is well worth waiting for. However, not everything that has been demanded by everyone has been included, or will survive Beta testing.
To make definite claims about what will be included, without any real knowledge or understanding of the dificulties, will only make more trouble in the end.
Regards,
Marty
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Hi All
People being what they are will have there own opinions on this (as they should)
many either misread or are to quick to jump to a conclusion.
But at the end of it it is up to them what they do if a member want to leave because
something do'es not fit in with what he wants it is his loss nobody else's.
Like everything else in life you win you lose instead of looking at the negative things
try being positive.
In otherwords So we lose this but we have gained this sadly its a fact of life that
not all will get what they want from extremes but everybody will get a new and
great game/sim
Eric
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Great to see the forum hasn't changed! lol
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I think Marty was refering to
Please do not leave. :)
I can assure you, they are not taking Titanic out of SSEx.
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Nope, still the same. :sleepy:Marty, I only said what Frank said. I only translated it for him. I didn't say anything else.
As I recall that interview, Frank said that Titanic would be back. He did not say where or when.
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I think Marty had an excellent idea. Perhaps, use the time testing and improving the new features in SSE and then, if it's possible, tune the Titanic for SSE (much easier said than done I suppose) and if it's all ok, a Shipyard release may be possible for those willing to pay for it?
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What I meant, Shane, is that Frank did not say whether it would be in the original release, or available from the Shipyard later.
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What I meant, Shane, is that Frank did not say whether it would be in the original release, or available from the Shipyard later.
I'm sure in one of the interviews he said the Titanic was back
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If I may add my penny's worth in this. :)
I think the main reason why Titanic was included in ShipSim was to draw in people who have heard about her from the film or whatever thus increasing sales of their product.
In my opinion this has worked well for SS06 and 08 but I think Extremes will be so content rich with other features and vessels that the need is no longer there for Titanic to be used in that way.
In the game itself I for one never use her and only did a couple of times when I bought the game just to admire the model and see how well my computer could handle it (::)).
On multiplayer servers she causes lag, and as far as I know not many missions are made using her. She is an old ship being incorporated into a modern simulator with modern vessels and in my opinion doesn't quite fit in for that reason. The only vessel that I think does, is the Furie for two reasons; she is still operational in the environment today and can be used to make some lovely scenarios in places such as Padstow that have a fairly traditional feel. And of course the proceedings go to her upkeep.
All in all I'd rather time was spent developing what we have or new content instead of updating Titanic. I whole heartedly agree with the idea of putting her up in the Shipyard for people who are desperate to sail her.
Mike :)
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I think Titanic should stay in the game biceaus she has good dynamics and allso looks good.(much better then those floating boxes)
I don't care about her history and I don't care about her fans.
All you people are taking it MUCH to serious. Saying that Titanic shouldn't be added to the game biceaus it disturbs the forum a little bit is childish and stupid. Like stealing someones toy biceaus you don't like him.
Besides, it allready is a long time ago that I read a Titanic topic (till this one).
NathanC said, POR has a bowthruster unlike Titanic.
Maybe you should learn how to really manouver then.
Are you happy with the dynamics from POR?
The bowthruster is not realistic, like with most ships.
And there still are a lot of ships that don't have a bowthruster.
I just like Titanic biceaus it is a good ship with good dynamics.
So to keep everyone else satisfied, we can add 4 more ferries and 6 more cruiseships. Biceaus that is what I hate the most, people asking for more ferries and cruiseships while the maritime world has MUCH more to offer.
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NathanC said, POR has a bowthruster unlike Titanic.
Maybe you should learn how to really manouver then.
Are you happy with the dynamics from POR?
The bowthruster is not realistic, like with most ships.
And there still are a lot of ships that don't have a bowthruster.
How do you know the dynamics are good? Have you sailed her? I can easily not click on Titanic topics on the forum. But it just gets a little irritating when certain people complain about missing benches, missing fences etc. That's not the point of the sim, to look at the ship. It's about handling the ship.
For your information, I was one of the people who actually read and took interest in the topic where Marty and Traddles explained how to manouver the Titanic away from dock using the "springing" technique. After trying myself succesfully I now know how to manouvre the Titanic away from the dock.
The last part of your post is exactly what i'm trying to say. The maritime world has so much more to offer, which is why I think VSTEP should spend time on other things.
As for the POR bowthruster thing, what does that have to do with this? But you obviously have real life experience in manouvering large RoRo ferries, so I won't argue with you.
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Well, I don't think that is verry realistic that the whole ship moves to sb when I put the bow thruster to sb.
Normally the stern goes a little bit to port when you do that. I call that common sense!
I agree that Titanic fans ask for to much. But I allso think it would be a waste of efforts to not put her into the game. Biceaus then a large group of people will be begging for a steam powered ocean liner.
There are some other ships wich diserve it more to not be included in the next version.
I have no real life experience on big ships, but I do have some experience on a Kongsberg full mission bridge simulator.
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I'd say for the sake of the forum servers, let her remain here in the game, if not the servers will be overloaded by thousands of topics, demanding that the ship is put back in, seriously, it's for our own good.
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Well, I don't think that is verry realistic that the whole ship moves to sb when I put the bow thruster to sb.
Normally the stern goes a little bit to port when you do that. I call that common sense!
I don't know where you get this information, the vessel's stern would not move to port while the bow thruster is set to starboard. It would remain stationary. What you have described would only happen if there were a stern/aft thruster activated to port. And the POR doesn't do what you describe in the game. It works the way it should.
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I don't know where you get this information, the vessel's stern would not move to port while the bow thruster is set to starboard. It would remain stationary. What you have described would only happen if there were a stern/aft thruster activated to port. And the POR doesn't do what you describe in the game. It works the way it should.
Sorry, but where do you get that information from?
In theory, a ship turns around its centre of gravity. (when it is laying still)
But you allso have hydrodynamics wich play a big role so I don't really know what to think anymore.
I think I exhaggerated a little bit biceaus what I ment has allready been fixed. But in general a lot of ships have this problem. Just take a look at this: http://80.95.161.114/shipsim/forum/index.php/topic,4664.msg47182/topicseen.html#msg47182
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How about this:
Instead of Putting Titanic in the Shipyard or in the main version of Ship Simulator Extremes, why don't they put her in a Expansion pack? Ship Sim Extremes is said to get Expansion Packs so V-Step won't just keep making more Ship Sims, like Ship Simulator 2012. SSE is to be the only version from now on to get tons of expansion packs. This should Resolve the dispute of whether to Put Titanic in the Shipyard or leave her in.
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no matter where you put the Titatic in the game or at The Shipyard.
but if it gets in The Shipyard. also am not able to buy it like the other ships in The Shipyard that I like a lot but I could not get them.(Elbe and Furie) :(
I do not ask more quality on the Titanic. I never said it better.
use the traductor.lo feel bad if you understand my words.
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Sorry, but where do you get that information from?
In theory, a ship turns around its centre of gravity. (when it is laying still)
But you allso have hydrodynamics wich play a big role so I don't really know what to think anymore.
I think I exhaggerated a little bit biceaus what I ment has allready been fixed. But in general a lot of ships have this problem. Just take a look at this: http://80.95.161.114/shipsim/forum/index.php/topic,4664.msg47182/topicseen.html#msg47182
That has changed since then. In the dynamics that I have, the stern pushes towards the dock when the thruster is activated.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5n1Gh_pdjs&feature=channel
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Which is pretty much what i was trying to say i just didnt know how to put it...
Sam i get this information from watching the vessel in the game, and having been on bridge visits on vessels in the past...
It's just common sense.
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What I thought you were saying is the stern stays perfectly still while the bow moves out? That isn't true, the Pride's stern does seem to move both in game and reality (see my vid).
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Yes, thats what i said, but i know that it does move, i just did not know how to phrase it. The stern obviously moves but not the way Sam has indicated. It's not stationary, it just moves very slowly...
Sorry for confusion :P
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I was going to say "Wow I can't believe how heated people are getting about this", but it's the internet so i can believe it.
My tuppenceworth, yes Titanic is nice, yes it gives the game a little bit of history, but it can't be realistically sailed in the environments that are in the game (sailing past Spinnaker tower is just wrong), the other ships don't match up so that you have a 1995 built tug pushing a 1912 built ship. The model itself is fantastic, but if implementing it in SSE is going to detract from the development of other new stuff then I would say leave it out.
There may be 10,000 forum topics demanding its return, but at least there won't be 10,000 pictures of her sinking either.
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but it can't be realistically sailed in the environments that are in the game (sailing past Spinnaker tower is just wrong), the other ships don't match up so that you have a 1995 built tug pushing a 1912 built ship.
You can think of it as a replica, Titanic 2, etc. There're also missions about that.
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QM2>Titanic
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SR-N4 > any ship.
It's not about which ship is better, only it's value in the game.
I think that the existance of a liner of that period is good, since that was the golden age of the liners, but not necessarily Titanic.
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I agree, Sam, that Titanic is probably one of the best ships for actually maneuvering, although her dynamics have suffered somewhat from tinkering.
I don’t have an objection to her addition to Extremes, per se; only if it is at the expense of other more useful features.
I’m, in fact, the creator of arguably the longest mission for Titanic (4+ hours over five environments). So far as I know, less than a dozen players have attempted it.
The evidence indicates that Titanic is not sailed very much, at least not in a seamanlike manner. She is wanted more as an object to be looked at and walked about, and driven into an iceberg in an often disappointing effort to watch her sink.
I think my contention that she is wanted more as just a 3D model than as something to be used is borne out by the demands for her sisters. Absent any accurate performance information that provides different dynamics among the ships, there would be no difference in driving them.
The question of whether to include her in the initial release, or to make her available on the Shipyard, will be decided by VSTEP on the basis of whether it is possible to include her without postponing the release, or dropping other features.
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Sorry, but where do you get that information from?
In theory, a ship turns around its centre of gravity. (when it is laying still)
But you allso have hydrodynamics wich play a big role so I don't really know what to think anymore.
I think I exhaggerated a little bit biceaus what I ment has allready been fixed. But in general a lot of ships have this problem. Just take a look at this: http://80.95.161.114/shipsim/forum/index.php/topic,4664.msg47182/topicseen.html#msg47182
Hi Sam,
You are right that the hydro forces complicate the way a ship responds to a bow thruster.
But it is not so simple even if the ship is suspended in space:
If it had, say, a rocket bow thruster it would still not simply rotate about its center of mass. It would also move sideways (translate) in the direction of thrust. This is because the thrust is resisted by the ship’s moment of inertia. This has the effect of transferring some of the thrust to act on the center of mass of the ship and push it sideways.
You could think of it as the ship using its inertia against the thruster to pry itself sideways. Or you could simply not think of it at all, as I do whenever possible.
So, the point about which any ship rotates depends upon its moment of inertia to mass ratio plus the distribution of the hydrodynamic forces. For a bow thruster, the effect is to move the pivot point aft of the center of mass. In some cases, it moves far enough aft that the ship appears to move sideways.
There is an advantage to having the pivot point aft of the stern when moving away from the dock.
Regards,
Marty
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Hi Sam. PoR is actually very close to it's real life counterpart from what Nathan has said about her. Nathan knows a lot about the PoR. That's something that no one can dispute. I'm mainly worried in Titanic's impact on how people think of ShipSim. People may not find it as a serious game if Titanic is included. Hardly anyone uses her to begin with, and the small percentage that do only use her for her looks.
I don't want people thinking I know everything about how POR handles - I know just as much as you. I have sent pictures and the bridge poster to VSTEP (with no reply however). Yes I use 1.4
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Well, then I think I am the only person who sails her for the ships she is.
For her dynamics.
I think Titanic should stay in the game just like she is right now.
Without any things changing.
The reason why I am so picky about the bowthruster is biceaus with a lot of ships I get annoyed that it feels so 'wrong'.
Normally, a ships pivoting point moves to the front when making speed ahead and vice versa.
In the sim it feels like it allways stays on the same point.
And I am shure that every single ship that uses a bowthruster will have the effect that its stern will move to the opposite direction (or just a little bit). Without any current and wind and while laying still in open waters.
@kapn Johan
First you where saying that a ships stern stays stationary, I can't agree with that.
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@kapn Johan
First you where saying that a ships stern stays stationary, I can't agree with that.
First of all its Jonah, not Johan(thank you very much WM). If your gonna address me, spell my name right, thats just like walking up to me and saying "Hey Johan!" its not Johan, its Jonah, completely different...
Also, you'll see in my later post i corrected myself and the reasoning behind why i had made the mistake...
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@kapn Johan
First you where saying that a ships stern stays stationary, I can't agree with that.
In truth, when using the bow thruster to leave a dock, if the pivot point is forward of the stern the stern will stay stationary; or it will move into the dock if there is a gap in the mask.
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Now you’ve gone and insulted a moderator!
No he hasn't Marty...what are you talking about? :S :doh:
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Johan Mach is a Dutch moderator. I was just kidding Shane.
Jonah, you should not be so quick to jump into things you don’t understand.
And you should both be careful about making fun of a proper name. You never know who is wearing it.
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Marty,
I wasn't jumping into it, the comment was geared towards me, i was already "in" it, so to say. And NOBODY understood Marty, so don't just pick on me...
Not trying to tell you how to do your job, but if your gonna make a joke you shouldn't edit it into somebody's post with red font...that just puts people on alert right away. Just make a regular post...
And you should both be careful about making fun of a proper name. You never know who is wearing it.
Both?! I only asked to be called my proper name, and if you can make a joke i'm sure Shane can too Marty...
But thats just my view on the matter... :-\
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As 2 letters would say...
BTT :doh:
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Gentlemen, gentlemen, it is with some amazement that I read the stuff being thrown to each other lately.
Please all of you, go back on topic and keep it friendly. A bit of good will and friendliness as well as the ability to relativize seems to be lacking sometimes. Let's all use common sense and put things in perspective here.
Whether you're a veteran, or a newbie just discovering the game, and regardless of age, the last thing our series and community need are people hassling each other and getting personal. This goes for all, myself included. We all share a common intrest for a great game series and the maritime. Let that be the driving force on this forum, not the urge to profile yourself. Thankfully 95% of the forum does this and uses its common sense.
So pretty please, with some Titanic flavoured sugar on top: gentlemen...please get a grip and get on topic.
Thanks,
Frank Dolmans
VSTEP
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Ok, you are right.
I removed my last post to prevent it from getting worse.
I appologise.
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Great, even Frank had to come in to settle this. That's time that he could have spend on the development of the game... :(
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Well, that is what I call having a discussion.
One moment you can shout at eachother and another moment you get along very well. ;D
I hope most of the forum users are mature enough to handle that.
I was very offensive in my first post biceaus this is the old discussion again.
In stead of just leaving it as it was, someone had to bring it up again.
Right now there are three groups:
1: The group who loves Titanic biceaus of its history and its their favourite ship.
2: The group who hates Titanic biceaus group 1 wants to many attention for it.
3: The group who thinks Titanic is just a ship like any other so they don't mind it is in the game.
I think that group 1 and 2 aren't really ship enthousiats.
My favourite ship isn't Titanic.
It is Jumbo Javelin biceaus it is not a passengership and it is interesting to manoeuver.