Ship Simulator

English forum => Small talk => Topic started by: VirtualSkipper on January 03, 2010, 22:50:14

Title: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: VirtualSkipper on January 03, 2010, 22:50:14
Knock Nevis has just been renamed to Mont, and reflagged with Sierra Leone, for a single voyage to India which will see the world's largest ever ship be scrapped.

The LARGEST floating vessel ever built will be scrapped! :'(

(http://rssnews.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/knock-nevis.jpg)

RIP, Seawise Giant aka Happy Giant aka Jahre Viking aka Knock Nevis aka Mont
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: Stuart2007 on January 03, 2010, 22:58:03
I must admit that it would be an impressive ship to see in real life... You can't get the sense of scale with it on a screen
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: Firestar on January 04, 2010, 00:41:15
I must agree with you there, Stuart. I hope I don't get ripped for saying this but I am curious about seeing the pictures. I wonder if anyone is going to take some nice ones of her (as nice as a ship in that state can be)

Has she been towed to India yet?
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: Season on January 04, 2010, 00:44:22
Why is this?
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: Cat320DL on January 04, 2010, 01:37:04
That's Sad  :'(
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: Firestar on January 04, 2010, 01:41:44
I'm curious, are there any traditions when scrapping a ship?
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: Stuart2007 on January 04, 2010, 07:25:35
Some companies have quite elaborate 'send off' parties, while the fleet commodore says "this vessel DESERVES its retirement" (mostly passenger ships, I suspect)

Quite odd- giving it almost human characteristics and then chopping it to pieces right afterwards!


BTW Firestar, I actually meant to see it while its FLOATING... But yes, whilst scrapped would be interesting too. Does anyone know its current location and planned route?
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: saltydog on January 04, 2010, 10:42:20
Allthough she is the longest ship ever built, she is not the largest by gross tonnage..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_world%27s_largest_ships_by_gross_tonnage

 Times of India  (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/rajkot/Biggest-crude-carrier-reaches-Alang/articleshow/5371194.cms)
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: Stuart2007 on January 04, 2010, 12:14:01
Allthough she is the longest ship ever built, she is not the largest by gross tonnage..
How about the largest GT that isn't [currently] scrapped, then?


The last I heard was she is anchored off Alang and is undergoing safety checks before being allowed to beach. They said she will be scrapped "in the new year" so anytime now I guess :-\
Safety checks? It's managed to make it half way around the planet- in one piece... Now they want to give it a maritime MOT before they scrap it... Makes perfect sense to me ;)
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: Season on January 04, 2010, 12:23:27
Why is this?

Does no one have an answer? D:
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: Stuart2007 on January 04, 2010, 12:27:32
Does no one have an answer? D:
Why is what what?
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: Season on January 04, 2010, 12:27:57
Why is it going to be scrapped? That's what the thread is about, no?
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: Stuart2007 on January 04, 2010, 12:30:09
Because they don't need it any more...

I suspect that it is no longer economical to refurbish as a ship and no longer needed as a storage vessel.

It won't be cheap to operate (even moored)... And they can get an awful lot of money by selling the scrap metal.

Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: Season on January 04, 2010, 12:31:40
I see. Would it have been different if she would've been a container ship?
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: Stuart2007 on January 04, 2010, 12:36:27
Don't forget, it is 30 years old!

Would you want to drive a 30 year old car or fly in a 30 year old 747?

It has been moored static for 5+ years and has previosly been an insurance right off... So in answer to your question...

"Would a 30 yr old container ship that's been a total loss once and has been moored for 5+ years (and can't traverse many shipping channels) have been re-used?"

Sadly, old duck, I think not.
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: Season on January 04, 2010, 12:47:36
Would you want to drive a 30 year old car or fly in a 30 year old 747?

Would you want to drive a 30 year old car

No.

or fly in a 30 year old 747?

Depends on the airline operating the bird. Nowadays 30 year old 747s are rare, but there are certainly still a few flying. Kalitta Air (US cargo airline) operates about 20 747 Classics, some of them are reaching 40 years. If it would be Iran Air Tours or Onur Air, I certainly wouldn't fly on them. No discrimination towards Iranians or Turkish intended, but it's a fact that those airlines aren't the best in maintaining their aircraft.

Don't forget, it is 30 years old!

It has been moored static for 5+ years and has previosly been an insurance right off... So in answer to your question...

"Would a 30 yr old container ship that's been a total loss once and has been moored for 5+ years (and can't traverse many shipping channels) have been re-used?"

Sadly, old duck, I think not.

Okay, I was just wondering, seeing as cargo planes have been in a bigger demand lately.

Off topic; is anyone else having some weird bug when typing your message that it automatically scrolls all the time? Very irritating.
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: McGherkin on January 04, 2010, 12:59:44
I'm curious, are there any traditions when scrapping a ship?

Parking it on a beach:

(http://www.thedailystar.net/photo/2009/03/18/2009-03-18__front01.jpg)
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: Stuart2007 on January 04, 2010, 13:02:54
Parking it on a beach:

(http://www.thedailystar.net/photo/2009/03/18/2009-03-18__front01.jpg)
:-X :-X :-X

I promised Fred no more sarcastic comments, so I won't say anything like Obviously a Spambot driver...
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: McGherkin on January 04, 2010, 13:06:01
:-X :-X :-X

I promised Fred no more sarcastic comments, so I won't say anything like Obviously a Spambot driver...

or three...
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: Stuart2007 on January 04, 2010, 17:32:31
Thanks Nathan- I realised that. I was just pointing out the irony of it... Asbestos, fuel dregs, chemical waste etc.
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: VirtualSkipper on January 04, 2010, 18:34:59
The SS Norway was scrapped by asbetos I think
(http://www.maritimematters.com/images/norway20080120b.jpg)
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: matt5674 on January 04, 2010, 19:12:17
SS Norway was in my Ship Quiz Question. She was renamed SS Blue Lady when she was scrapped. I will miss the world's largest ship, Jahre Viking.
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: Quaysider on January 04, 2010, 21:13:48
Not showing any vessels on AIS in the area (not surprisingly) - but just so you can see the scale of operations over there look at this Google Maps link

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=alang+india&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=19.616064,56.90918&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Alang,+Bhavnagar,+Gujarat,+India&ll=21.402413,72.193222&spn=0.060174,0.111151&t=h&z=14
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: Ballast on January 04, 2010, 21:32:19
Great catch Quaysider!

(http://i48.tinypic.com/2u6e72p.jpg)
Could this be the MSC Nikita??

The Nikita after collision with the Nirint Pride off Maas approach, Rotterdam at the 1st of september '09
(http://i46.tinypic.com/33wr0r5.jpg)
Photo: tugspotters.com
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: Firestar on January 04, 2010, 21:34:13
Why do they rename vessels right before they're scrapped? ???
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: mightymike on January 04, 2010, 21:34:40
Knock Nevis's Wikipedia page updated today:
The vessel was sold to Indian breakers in late 2009 and renamed Mont for her final journey. She was photographed beached for scrapping at Alang, India on 4 January 2010.[7]

Anyone found these pictures yet?
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: Stuart2007 on January 04, 2010, 21:42:51
Why do they rename vessels right before they're scrapped? ???

I am going to guess that it is because it is sold to the scrap dealer before its last journey. The owning operator doesn't actually take it for scrap, the buyer does... so they change the name so that the seller keeps the rights to the name.

Also, it will usually (always?) be flagged with a convenience state for that journey.
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: mightymike on January 04, 2010, 21:55:20
And we have found a picture, credit goes out to MidShipCentury

It's beached on Alang  (http://www.midshipcentury.com/images/mountalang.jpg)

January 2, 2010.

I never interested in ships, but i saw a documentary about this one on discovery channel and it really interested me. What a shame... but money rules the world.

It appears she beached on 22 December last year.
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: IRI5HJ4CK on January 04, 2010, 22:24:30
 :o :o

 :'(
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: Firestar on January 04, 2010, 22:32:18
I'm curious, do people ever try to sneak on board these vessels after they've been beached?
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: mightymike on January 04, 2010, 22:40:11
I wonder why those ships don't fall at a side? they must catch a lot of wind..
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: Season on January 04, 2010, 22:43:56
I wonder why those ships don't fall at a side? they must catch a lot of wind..

Probably because they're wayyyyy too heavy....
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: IRI5HJ4CK on January 04, 2010, 22:53:17
As far as I know they're chained down as well...But I don't think they'd be going anywhere anytime soon :lol:

Also, Shane, I'd imagine so at some points or another, out of the locals own interest, and maybe to see if there was anything of any value onboard, but other than that, I don't think so. To them I suppose, it would just be a larger than normal ship. As well as that, she wouldn't probably have much of great value apart from her, herself...as scrap metal. Unlike something like say the SS France/Norway.

Jack.
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: IRI5HJ4CK on January 05, 2010, 11:16:45
Yep...I certainly did Nath!

I was tempted to put a bid in but it was a little bit out of my price range :blush:

 :lol:
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: VirtualSkipper on January 05, 2010, 13:17:40
And we have found a picture, credit goes out to MidShipCentury

It's beached on Alang  (http://www.midshipcentury.com/images/mountalang.jpg)

January 2, 2010.

I never interested in ships, but i saw a documentary about this one on discovery channel and it really interested me. What a shame... but money rules the world.

It appears she beached on 22 December last year.

Well, a last look on her untouched structure  :'(
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: VirtualSkipper on January 05, 2010, 15:27:51
I wonder why those ships don't fall at a side? they must catch a lot of wind..

Well, those ships have such a wide structure wich make the very stable. Even in heavy storms. (the beam is around 70 meters)
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: VirtualSkipper on January 05, 2010, 15:35:24
Why is this?

Well, you have the laws called the SOLAS laws (Safety Of Life At Sea). This law began in 1914.

These laws must be approved for the Knock Nevis.


 Part A - Carriage of dangerous goods in packaged form - includes provisions for the classification, packing, marking, labelling and placarding, documentation and stowage of dangerous goods. Contracting Governments are required to issue instructions at the national level and the Chapter makes mandatory the International Maritime Dangerous Goods (IMDG) Code, developed by IMO, which is constantly updated to accommodate new dangerous goods and to supplement or revise existing provisions.

Part A-1 - Carriage of dangerous goods in solid form in bulk - covers the documentation, stowage and segregation requirements for these goods and requires reporting of incidents involving such goods.

Part B covers Construction and equipment of ships carrying dangerous liquid chemicals in bulk and requires chemical tankers built after 1 July 1986 to comply with the International Bulk Chemical Code (IBC Code).

Part C covers Construction and equipment of ships carrying liquefied gases in bulk and gas carriers constructed after 1 July 1986 to comply with the requirements of the International Gas Carrier Code (IGC Code).

Part D includes special requirements for the carriage of packaged irradiated nuclear fuel, plutonium and high-level radioactive wastes on board ships and requires ships carrying such products to comply with the International Code for the Safe Carriage of Packaged Irradiated Nuclear Fuel, Plutonium and High-Level Radioactive Wastes on Board Ships (INF Code).
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

She was simply not approved by the SOLAS laws.
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: Season on January 05, 2010, 16:46:33
Thanks for the detailed explanation :)
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: Stuart2007 on January 05, 2010, 17:00:28
One thing puzzles me. WHY does everyone get so upset over an inanimate piece of metal that they have never even seen? Not just this ship, but generally?

Not every ship can be turned into a museum- and unless it is an especially historic ship, then why get so emotional?



NOTE: This is asked as a genuine question. It is NOT designed to provoke any flame type response. PLEASE answer properly, or if you don't like it just ignore it.
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: IRI5HJ4CK on January 05, 2010, 17:16:45
In my own opinion, it is more sentimental value than anything.

The Jahre Viking, is of great significance...When it comes to Maritime achievements...However, one could say otherwise - The fact that she, fully laden, could not pass through the English Channel says that she had little use, and was only really built for specific ports...Like the Berge Stahl, although quite a bit smaller, was too.

However, I DO think that some ships such as Queen Elizabeth 2, or the SS France, should of/be saved. At least, as maybe a casino, (Like The France was for a period), or maybe just as a floating attraction somewhere, maybe as a hotel.

In a way, the likes of the Queen Mary is an exception when it comes to saving maritime achievements. She has a grand spot there, and, attracts many people - Because she is unusual, and was once a Cunarder...And shows what Ocean Liners were like in their prime.

A ship like the SS France on the other hand, would be to some degree, harder to sell to the general public. And, looking at the Norway in her final years - She was a total wreck. One of her boilers exploded in 2004, and Norwegian Cruise Lines lost total interest in her...She was an insurance nightmare, and, you could tell - It was time for her to "depart"..

In a sense, the Norway was given a second chance as being a cruise ship - And, I think that, people would only WANT to see her as the SS France, since the 'Norway' isn't nothing all that interesting to look at...With those added Aliminium decks, her whole slenderness, and idea of the 60's period Ocean Liner, was ruined...Hence why I think, if the Norway wasn't scrapped - She wouldn't be much use regardless. Since she just doesn't look LIKE an Ocean Liner...which would be the reason why people would want to see her, like the SS Rotterdam, Or Queen Mary.

Anyway...I blabbered a bit too much there, but, to sum it up, I think it all boils down to sentimental value to people (And myself, even), seeing an icon of the shipping industry dissapear, is sad...But at the same time - What purpose did the Jahre Viking serve, really? For the last few years of her life as an FSO, she just sat there...And even before that, she had a very broken up life span (quite literally), with the whole "war" over oil between Iran and Iraq and such...

Jack.
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: Ballast on January 05, 2010, 17:22:07

SOLAS


The SOLAS doesn't mention the age where a vessel should be scrapped. The IBC code is applicable for vessels built on or after 1 July 1986. Vessel built before 1 July 1986 can still sail dangerous cargo's, after inspected and approved by the flagstate. 

I reckon that it is a fincial issue. The older the vessel gets, the more money the owner has to invest to keep her up-to-date. The age of 30 for a vessel this size is pretty good, don't forget the tremendous forces she has to withstand.

The major oil company's came up with the maximum age. For chemical tankers they set the bar at the age of 20. It's complete bs, some vessels in our fleet are over that age but in a much better condition than modern chemical tankers under a 'cheap flag'.
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: sadsid († 2016) on January 05, 2010, 17:46:51
Hi Stuart2007
 When you sail in these lumps of metal you do get fond of them I sailed in
 Wyre Victory 3and a half years till she sank of milles reef (sule sigur)scotland
 and to watch a ship sink is very emotional for crew involved I can tell you.
 I also served in the Grampian dee for 11years and became fond of her so for
me and many like me seamen do get attached to these lumps of metal
                                                                                           Eric  :angel:
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: IRI5HJ4CK on January 05, 2010, 17:50:15
Hi Eric..

You wouldn't happen to know any of the "Quinn's", would you? A friend of mine, Tony Quinn, I think his father was on a trawler going from Fleetwood, which also sank somewhere off Scotland..

Though of course, several did go down.. :-\

Also, with regards to getting attached to ships/boats, in my own way, I know how it does feel.

Jack.
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: sadsid († 2016) on January 05, 2010, 18:16:42
Hi Jack
I sailed with his father in variouse wyre trawlers  :evil:
                                                              Eric
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: IRI5HJ4CK on January 05, 2010, 18:18:35
Ahhh I see!!! :lol:

I know Tony very well...He's a good sort. He helps me out with Chartwork and such. He also arranged the bridge visit to the Leader, which is how I know David Eccles :)

Jack.
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: Stuart2007 on January 05, 2010, 18:18:46
Jack, you weren't blathering at all... It is interesting to hear other people's opinions.

I'm not saying that I wouldn't be blockading Portsmouth when the Day that PO Bilbao takes a trip to Alang. But the difference is that I've been on that ship many times, but I haven't been on the Knock Nevis and I suspect you haven't either.

Eric, your comment is definately understandable (for the same reasons above)- if you've effectively lived on a ship (as you do when at sea, of course) then seeing it sink might be like going back to the house you grew up on and seeing it bulldozed.

As I hope you realised from my post, describing them as a lump of metal was not designed to be offensive... But it illustrates the difference between the objective question and subjective answer... What IS it that makes a ship almost like a real person, whereas an aircraft/car/truck really is just a bit of metal to most people?
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: IRI5HJ4CK on January 05, 2010, 18:30:51
Well,

To me, many things have direct sentimental value. For example, our old boat, Mary Elizabeth, that really did wreck me when she went..

But, other things such as say, the SS France, I look at in a different way...For me the France is an icon of a period of Ocean Liners that I love. The fact I never got to see her was what made me quite sad, and in a way, wanting to gain that knowledge about her that I missed out on because I could never see her in the "real world".

With boats/ships, more than anything, I think that sentimental value comes from when, you sail aboard them...It is your home away from home, and, you almost trust the boat/ship, and have feelings for it, in the sense that you operate it, and it is part of you.

The human mind is very weird in how it see's  things...For example, there are some things which I honestly couldn't care less about, even people, that have done things to me in the past - I have no time for. In that sense, an object can never do any wrong to you...And you can only bond with it, if it in turn, is 'good' to you..

That's kinda' my (Weird!), but personal thoughts on it :doh:
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: Stuart2007 on January 05, 2010, 18:42:11
So- and this isn't meant argumentative- what is better for sentimentality

Seing a photo/video of MV Ship whilst in service, or it staying in a dock, rusting, deteriorating...

I'm not saying you are wrong; not at all... I'm genuinely interested that's all.
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: CaptainMike1 on January 05, 2010, 18:46:19
There already is a topic for this:

http://80.95.161.114/shipsim/forum/index.php/topic,16314.0.html

Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: IRI5HJ4CK on January 05, 2010, 18:48:54
Well, for me, if I were to say...Bring Mary Elizabeth into the equation (Which was something dearly close to me),

In a way - I cannot tackle your question directly, for me, the fact that say, for example, something happened to Mary Elizabeth, the fact that I could never touch it again, or see it, would mean I just wouldn't be able to get in touch with those memories again, or 'remember' where I was before, or how she looked during my time aboard her. In a sense, I would rather see her still there, in some shape or form (As oppose to being turned into bake bean tins :lol:).

Even though it would make me sad, say, If I was 50 years of age now, and I had served aboard "X" Ship, which I was looking at rusting away, I think for me the fact she would still be there would still allow me to think back to when I was aboard her. Though others opinions will probably differ on that one.

Jack.
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: Stuart2007 on January 05, 2010, 18:52:18
There already is a topic for this:
Yes Michael, but now this topic has taken on a lifeforce of its own.


Jack, your eloquent prose demonstrates your point well. Your feelings on this fine vessel are understandable.

Perhaps my question was badly worded. But I really mean people who have never even seen XYZ vessel, let alone travelled onboard. I remember once seeing (TV series) the Master at Arms of HMS Ark Royal crying because he saw the semi-demolished remains of his ship... And he wasn't the sort of bloke you'd expect to cry... But would I get that worked up over a ship I hadn't seen?  :-\
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: CaptainMike1 on January 05, 2010, 18:53:42
Yes Michael, but now this topic has taken on a lifeforce of its own.



Maybe but that does not usually stop Fred from locking duplicates!

 :evil:
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: Season on January 05, 2010, 18:55:19
One thing puzzles me. WHY does everyone get so upset over an inanimate piece of metal that they have never even seen? Not just this ship, but generally?

Not every ship can be turned into a museum- and unless it is an especially historic ship, then why get so emotional?



NOTE: This is asked as a genuine question. It is NOT designed to provoke any flame type response. PLEASE answer properly, or if you don't like it just ignore it.

I agree. How can you be so upset about something you absolutely have no bonds / personal experiences with (as far as I know, sounds unlikely but correct me if wrong)?

Same for many Titanic fans on here - if the movie didn't exist, no one would care...
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: IRI5HJ4CK on January 05, 2010, 19:02:01
Okay, if I take a ship which I probably have a lot of general knowledge on, which I have never seen before, the Norway (Or France, as I recognise her as).

The fact that I had never seen her was what sparked my initial interest. I thought, "What a great ship", and that it was something I wished I could of seen. And an era which I would of loved to of got a feel for, but just obviously wasn't around at that time.

But I do agree,  in that sense, - You can have feelings for something you've never seen before, but nothing, ever does match how you feel if you've worked, or been aboard a boat/ship, that you liked. It really did upset me a great deal to see Mary go, and even though still here, it does not feel the same when you don't have the helm in your hands...I suppose it would almost be like waving your son/daughter that has finished college, and moving out of the home, and not under your watch, or care, directly, anymore.

Jack.
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: Stuart2007 on January 05, 2010, 19:03:12
Maybe but that does not usually stop Fred from locking duplicates!

 :evil:
Goderators and Admins generally only do that if it is a pointless duplicate. The other one is full of cobwebs and this one is being used (and has evolved into a slightly different topic too).

I agree. How can you be so upset about something you absolutely have no bonds / personal experiences with (as far as I know, sounds unlikely but correct me if wrong)?

Same for many Titanic fans on here - if the movie didn't exist, no one would care...
So if I said I am going to sit and watch a Boeing 747-100 being chopped to pieces, you won't be upset?

BTW there was a good programme about component recovery from a '471... They took 2 weeks to strip it of parts before the bulldozer went in... Fascinating.

Also, PLEASE don't put the whole word Tita... :sleepy:...nic in one sentence or I will fall asleep.
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: IRI5HJ4CK on January 05, 2010, 19:09:38
Goderators and Admins generally only do that if it is a pointless duplicate. The other one is full of cobwebs and this one is being used (and has evolved into a slightly different topic too).
So if I said I am going to sit and watch a Boeing 747-100 being chopped to pieces, you won't be upset?

BTW there was a good programme about component recovery from a '471... They took 2 weeks to strip it of parts before the bulldozer went in... Fascinating.

Also, PLEASE don't put the whole word Tita... :sleepy:...nic in one sentence or I will fall asleep.

Not just chopped...But first...Sold to another company that only wants it for scrap, then re-names it, have it rammed full ahead onto a beach, whilst swarms of Indians climb on it and chain it down...Then anything of value is scavenged, and all the rest gets chopped up, sold, and recycled to make the cutlery on your table now...

 :-X
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: Season on January 05, 2010, 19:52:02
Goderators and Admins generally only do that if it is a pointless duplicate. The other one is full of cobwebs and this one is being used (and has evolved into a slightly different topic too).
So if I said I am going to sit and watch a Boeing 747-100 being chopped to pieces, you won't be upset?

BTW there was a good programme about component recovery from a '471... They took 2 weeks to strip it of parts before the bulldozer went in... Fascinating.

Also, PLEASE don't put the whole word Tita... :sleepy:...nic in one sentence or I will fall asleep.

Sure, I would prefer if it was put into a museum, but I'm not the one to decide that. Other than that, it doesn't bother me, no. I see enough photos of airplane graveyards and when I see that I think 'awesome, I wish I could go there!' instead of 'noooo... those poor planes!'.

So if you want to ruin my day, don't try showing me pictures of airplane graveyards. I only like them, and it helps to improve my own knowledge in airplanes/airlines. I try to recognize what kind of aircraft it is, and if possible, by what airline it was owned (if the colors haven't been painted over too much, it's pretty easy...).
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: Stuart2007 on January 05, 2010, 21:04:11
Sure, I would prefer if it was put into a museum, but I'm not the one to decide that. Other than that, it doesn't bother me, no. I see enough photos of airplane graveyards and when I see that I think 'awesome, I wish I could go there!' instead of 'noooo... those poor planes!'.

You heartless aeroplane killer... What next? Babies and polar bears? :o
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: McGherkin on January 05, 2010, 21:05:50
You heartless aeroplane killer... What next? Babies and polar bears? :o

Or Baby Seals? Or Owls? Or Slow Loris?

(http://www.toptenz.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Slow-Loris.jpg)
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: VirtualSkipper on January 05, 2010, 21:07:36
Or Baby Seals? Or Owls? Or Slow Loris?

I don't think you can scrap those kind of things like ships in Alang  :)
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: McGherkin on January 05, 2010, 21:45:38
Sadly Mont was grounded on Alang beach on new years day, there is a photo on here :-

http://www.maritimematters.com/shipnews.html

That picture's already been posted:




And we have found a picture, credit goes out to MidShipCentury

It's beached on Alang  (http://www.midshipcentury.com/images/mountalang.jpg)

January 2, 2010.

I never interested in ships, but i saw a documentary about this one on discovery channel and it really interested me. What a shame... but money rules the world.

It appears she beached on 22 December last year.
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: IRI5HJ4CK on January 06, 2010, 10:17:36
Hi Cawky,

Yeah, he did. It's available on youtube. The sheer size of the engine room is absolutely mind blowing...To think, all that needs to be taken apart.. :-X
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: VirtualSkipper on January 06, 2010, 16:27:07
Here is the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX2HFVHbo18
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: Firestar on January 06, 2010, 22:21:39
Well, for me, if I were to say...Bring Mary Elizabeth into the equation (Which was something dearly close to me),

In a way - I cannot tackle your question directly, for me, the fact that say, for example, something happened to Mary Elizabeth, the fact that I could never touch it again, or see it, would mean I just wouldn't be able to get in touch with those memories again, or 'remember' where I was before, or how she looked during my time aboard her. In a sense, I would rather see her still there, in some shape or form (As oppose to being turned into bake bean tins :lol:).

Even though it would make me sad, say, If I was 50 years of age now, and I had served aboard "X" Ship, which I was looking at rusting away, I think for me the fact she would still be there would still allow me to think back to when I was aboard her. Though others opinions will probably differ on that one.

Jack.
I know just how that feels, Jack.
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: oceandream on January 19, 2010, 02:05:45
That picture's already been posted:





R.I.P. knock nevis.

Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: IRI5HJ4CK on January 19, 2010, 08:33:33
I think there was another picture of her beached...I'll try find it, Nathan gave it me.

Jack.
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: mightymike on January 28, 2010, 19:30:43
found that picture yet, jack?
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: marcstrat on January 29, 2010, 11:33:27
Great catch Quaysider!

(http://i48.tinypic.com/2u6e72p.jpg)
Could this be the MSC Nikita??

The Nikita after collision with the Nirint Pride off Maas approach, Rotterdam at the 1st of september '09
(http://i46.tinypic.com/33wr0r5.jpg)
Photo: tugspotters.com


No, it was not the Msc Nikita,remember that the Pride Nirint ran into the Nikita.
If you look to the picture that Msc vessel is damaged at his bow.
Further i have no info about what happened there


Marc
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: Quaysider on January 29, 2010, 19:09:45
Studying pics of the Nikita I can safely say the beached vessel being scrapped is not her. I wold suspect a former Mitsui box boat?

And further delving has narrowed it down a bit - I suspect it is "MSC Claudia" - ex "Kamakura Maru" - broken up at Alang where she arrived 28/12/08 - also a possiblity "MSC Sonia" broken up Dec 2007 or "MSC Koala"
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: Quaysider on January 29, 2010, 19:26:45
Hmmm - I suspect not as the C of MSC looks further away from the accomodation block on Pamela than in the aerial photo..
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: marcstrat on January 29, 2010, 19:44:56
Hoy,
The problem i have with beaching ships,is the enviromental side of this work.
Also i think its for company's offcourse a very cheap way to get away of there old steel and iron.However also asbestos,toxic fluids from cargo's(tankers).
No safe working around the area for people,i've seen people afther they had a accident there,no longer could they work on the ships,so also no more money for them.
Believe me many accidents happen there.
This should be stopped!
Marc
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: Stuart2007 on January 29, 2010, 19:50:26
Interesting you should say that, Marc...

There was a French aircraft carrier (forget its name) that was being sent to India for scrapping- but it was too risky for the Indians, so it was sent to Britain instead...

All the papers and TV kicked up a fuss about it here, yet we have much better facilities to dismantle ships than the poor 'disposable' Indian workforce (their lable, not mine!)...

I don't know what the fuss was about the French flagship coming here for scrapping. Britain has been scrapping French warships for Centuries now.
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: marcstrat on January 29, 2010, 23:25:10
Hi Stuart,
Here on TV was a documentary undercoverstuff i mean,and than you could see what the problems are overthere.
Most of it it's about cheap labour,many profits.
Some time ago,the (Blue lady)"Norway" has been demolished on that beach to.Over the years that ship has made loads of profits for the shippingcompany.It's wrong that they took it overthere.
England and even here in Belgium we have good and capable company's,which can dismantle a ship the proper way.
Thats what i ment with the privious reply.
Thanks for your reaction on that anyway.
Regards
Marc
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: Stuart2007 on January 30, 2010, 00:00:00
What annoys me more though, Marc, is the way companies and governments go on about protecting the developing world, and then do it anyway...

Being hypocritical about it makes it worse. Why can't they just be honest and say "we don't know these people and don't want to."

I'm glad we agree on this. I was thinking no one else on the planet cares at all.
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: VirtualSkipper on January 30, 2010, 00:00:22
Hi Stuart,
Here on TV was a documentary undercoverstuff i mean,and than you could see what the problems are overthere.
Most of it it's about cheap labour,many profits.
Some time ago,the (Blue lady)"Norway" has been demolished on that beach to.Over the years that ship has made loads of profits for the shippingcompany.It's wrong that they took it overthere.
England and even here in Belgium we have good and capable company's,which can dismantle a ship the proper way.
Thats what i ment with the privious reply.
Thanks for your reaction on that anyway.
Regards
Marc

What do you mean with ''dismantle a ship the proper way"?
I mean, its not the scrapyards fault of scrapping a ship of course.
And I think Alang deliver some good work though
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: Stuart2007 on January 30, 2010, 00:02:34
Without wishing to speak for Marc (currently offline) I suspect he means that dismantling on a beach instead of a drydock, wearing protective clothing instead of jeans and teeshirt, proper disposal of contaminents, as opposed to burying them next to a school...

Developing countries can not afford to turn down work, so they turn a blind eye to some dodgy practices.
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: Quaysider on January 30, 2010, 00:29:28
Interesting you should say that, Marc...

There was a French aircraft carrier (forget its name) that was being sent to India for scrapping- but it was too risky for the Indians, so it was sent to Britain instead...



The carrier in question was the "Clemencau" (sp?) - and she was taken to the Able Recycling facility (TERRC) at Graythorp on the Tees. This is a former drydock built for the building of offshore structures. They had a contract for around 13 ex US reserve vessels for scrapping - only 4 ever arrived before the environmentalists were up in arms and forced the cancellation of the rest of the contract. I believe there are now several vessels there to be scrapped along with offshore structures - they will soon seal off the entrance, drain the dock and start the dismantling.
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: Stuart2007 on January 30, 2010, 09:04:11
That'll be the one.

You have to laugh at environmentalists, really.... they get all upset when it endangers Indians, and they DEMAND that the western powers clean up their own mess (as long as it isn't brought to their country, that is)...


I don't really give a damn what anyone thinks about pretty much anything- to be honest, I'm not going to get all worked up about it- ie things I can not change.

But the one thing guaranteed to wind me up is hypocricy. 'Do as I say, not as I do'.


BTW I have seen that French carrier when it was still active. It is a huge monster. It is a shame really- it has been quite an important ship for them. It seems the French have about as much regard for their history as we British do  :(
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: saltydog on January 30, 2010, 09:06:43
'Do as I say, not as I do'.

Charley, in Long Way Down.. :)
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: marcstrat on January 30, 2010, 09:14:27
Hi Stuart,
Well,you see you found a fellow soulmate on this matter.
Like you said most of the people dont care(because they realy know),so the "dont know,dont care principal"is very active among them.Goverments say"we gife those people a job"which i find a very cheap explaination.
In the very,very past,these people were most of the time fisherman before.Now they are slaves,of that one guy which buy's the old vessels.That guy dont even care about them,because if something happen to one of the workers,another is already waithing,to pick up that free place.
For the family of that worker everything changes,no more work,is no more money,so also no longer support of any kind.
From that steel and iron,they make concrete-bars for constructions all over the world,well the last decade has been a construction-explosion all over.So the guy who owned the ship on the beach,i think he becomes very rich,and let the people work for almost nothing,they can never save some money,because the payment is so low.All these stuff,should be more known among us.We care about the enviroment,and about the ocean and what lives in it.Global warming is a high issue now.However,that scrapping can continue,without respecting anyone or anything.
Marc
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: marcstrat on January 30, 2010, 09:20:34
And I think Alang deliver some good work though.

What do they do good?while not respecting anything.

Hi Stuart,
You're reply,that is realy what i hade in mind,about this.
Regards
Marc
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: Stuart2007 on January 30, 2010, 09:26:20
It isn't that long ago that similar practices were common in Europe/America etc.

The principle is making a come back here in Britain (and Europe too I guess)- NOT to the same severity or danger, but the principle is the same. Now that there are plenty of cheap east Europen workers (Poles mainly) that standards of care for employees is getting pretty poor, as 'there are always more queueing for work'.

I am not talking about the same level of dangers and social lack of care such as in Indias ship scrapping industry, but once a principle is there, it isn't too hard to go from one to the other.

If you don't already know, I run a business that is heavily dependant on staff (I mostly employ east Europeans (same pay and conditions before you ask!) as they are harder working and more loyal)... and I try to make profit from work; but I also try to make sure my team are properly taken care of and earn a decent wage in a safe, decent environment.

It is hard balancing social responsibilities with commercial objectives, but that is nothing compared to these ship scrapping beaches... But what really should concern people is not just the current generation(s) of people injured/ diseased by it- but the future generations who will fall ill due to the pollutants in the local environment (maybe 20 years from now, they will find babies being born deformed for example- but only then link it to the scrapping when it is too late).

So, lets put the world to rights! ;)
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: marcstrat on January 30, 2010, 12:50:28
Hoy Stuart,
Like you explain it,well thats the way it should be done.
Very good company.
Marc
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: cawky on January 31, 2010, 20:29:06
The carrier in question was the "Clemencau" (sp?) - and she was taken to the Able Recycling facility (TERRC) at Graythorp on the Tees. This is a former drydock built for the building of offshore structures. They had a contract for around 13 ex US reserve vessels for scrapping - only 4 ever arrived before the environmentalists were up in arms and forced the cancellation of the rest of the contract. I believe there are now several vessels there to be scrapped along with offshore structures - they will soon seal off the entrance, drain the dock and start the dismantling.

Here is the whole story about the Tees ship recycling centre , there are some great photos of the ships arriving and the scrapping is going well :-

http://www.shipspotting.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=5255&forum=2
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: McGherkin on February 21, 2010, 18:47:35
Can't believe that the Dalmacija is also there.  :-\

Perhaps they're on strike!
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: cawky on February 21, 2010, 18:49:51
maybe a good idea to read the whole thread ! this picture is on page 2!
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: McGherkin on February 21, 2010, 18:52:03
maybe a good idea to read the whole thread ! this picture is on page 2!

I didn't want to tell him that!
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: cawky on February 21, 2010, 18:54:25
I have been searching all over the net for more photos of her in Alang , but have not found one single other shot , when I got the notification , I thought YES.

Also here :-

http://www.shipspotting.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7635&forum=2&post_id=42011#forumpost42011
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: McGherkin on February 21, 2010, 18:55:34
perhaps someone's nicked her!
Title: Re: Knock Nevis go's for India
Post by: Stuart2007 on February 22, 2010, 12:51:20
perhaps someone's nicked her!

Or 150,000,000 people are already shaving with her.