Ship Simulator
English forum => Ship Simulator 2008 => General discussions => Topic started by: RMS Gigantic on August 30, 2009, 02:27:37
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From time to time in the game, textures, especially on flags, tend to be mapped wrong. The most well known example is Titanic's UK blue ensign, but it happens other times too, as you can see by the upside down UK jack in the attached picture. I am curious if it has happened to ships, etc, too? Otherwise, why do only flags have this issue?
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From time to time in the game, textures, especially on flags, tend to be mapped wrong. The most well known example is Titanic's UK blue ensign, but it happens other times too, as you can see by the upside down UK jack in the attached picture. I am curious if it has happened to ships, etc, too? Otherwise, why do only flags have this issue?
The flag is upside down? Looks fine to me
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The UK flag isn't turn symmetrical when rotated 90 degrees ;D
Look at the diagonal red cross at http://www.jdawiseman.com/papers/union-jack/union-jack.html (http://www.jdawiseman.com/papers/union-jack/union-jack.html) and compare it with the above picture.
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Hi Ferry Man, You should be ashamed to make that comment. Especially when you are British. The flag on Red Jet as shown is not only upside down, but is of course not the correct flag, which should be a red duster. (with the Union flag the right way up in the top corner!!!!) Even worse, it takes an American citizen to put you right. :doh:
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I think I'll keep quite about flags from now on...
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Even worse, it takes an American citizen to put you right. :doh:
That's what I had thought, too :P A foreign citizen correcting you on your own nation's flag!
Anyway, why do all these flags have these mapping errors?
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I think I'll keep quite about flags from now on...
Me too...
I think I have seen the difference, but it isn't something I would have noticed...
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it isn't something I would have noticed...
It is, indeed, a bit of an issue about the UK flag: flying a country's flag upside down is a symbol of distress, particularly with the American flag. The problem being, flying from a distant ship, the UK flag can be difficult to distinguish if it's upside down!
Also, Traddles, I believe that flag is too short for the texture, as two or three of the quadrilaterals forming the cross of Saint Patrick are actually pentagons!
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Hi RMSG,
The whole flag is incorrect in size and shape as you point out. Perhaps it was made by an inexperienced person and was not deemed important enough to alter. :o :thumbdown:
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Have you also noticed that Titanic's blue ensign does not have a 1:2 ratio?
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Is this better for you?
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Much, but I was talking about Titanic's ensign just now :)
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Titanics ensign appears differently at different times. ::) Sometimes it is upside down, sometimes back to front and always incorrect, but this is only a game when all is said and done.
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Yes, and I have noticed that it didn't quite look right in terms of size ratio even when loaded properly!
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You're not losing too much sleep over it I hope? ;D
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I couldn't care what way the Union Jack Looks :P ;D
Why not put an Irish tri-colour flag on it, that would look just as good ;D :lol: (And plus, it isn't very complicated) ;D
Just my very valuable opinion on that one there :lol: :D
Jack :doh:
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You can get away with anything if you just say "and that's my opinion" :doh:
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"and that's my opinion" :doh:
Correct ;D :lol:
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Anything? ::)
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Hi Jack,
Does the tricolour have to be the right way round or does that not matter either. ;)
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No, That does matter, because then, if it were back to front, It would be the flag of another country!
Jack ;D
p.s. Sorry, I cannot help having a laugh :lol:
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THe Japanese flag is the easiest I nickname it the target flag (a red circle in the middle of it) Looks the same either way...
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THe Japanese flag is the easiest I nickname it the target flag (a red circle in the middle of it) Looks the same either way...
Then wait until you see that (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_Libya.svg) flag!
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Just a green flag with nothing? The Easiest flag to remember. ;D
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No, That does matter, because then, if it were back to front, It would be the flag of another country!
Jack ;D
p.s. Sorry, I cannot help having a laugh :lol:
A reversed Irish Flag is the flag of Cote d'Ivoire! Thing is, It's IMPOSSIBLE to fly vertically symmetrical flags like that upside down as distress signals!
Why not use the 46-star US flag and fly it off Titanic's foremast? ;D
The US flag is one of the world's most complex flags. The game would mess it up A LOT! :P
Though the idea of a Titanic with all three flags versus one flag based on location isn't that bad of an idea if you ask me. It would be nice to see the White Star house flag off the main mast, the courtesy ensign off the foremast (UK in British ports, US in American ports, and France in French ports), and, of course, the blue ensign on the ensign staff at the stern (the only flag that stays on when not in port), showing up between 8:00 AM and sunset. I know of a PDF where the sizes of the flags were studied lengthily based on photographs and any surviving flags, as well as specified when the flags were most likely flown: http://titanic-model.com/articles/flags/FLAG_REFERENCE_MultiPage_ver2.pdf (http://titanic-model.com/articles/flags/FLAG_REFERENCE_MultiPage_ver2.pdf)
Of course, consider the context! More lag-inducing aesthetics is just what Titanic needs :lol:
But still, for the PCs that can stomach it, it would be a pretty nice feast for the eyes.
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Hi RMSG,
One does not fly a courtesy flag in ones own country, only as a mark of courtesy to the foreign country in which the ship is at any time.
I quote you:-
(UK in British ports, ??? US in American ports, and France in French ports),
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Err... RMSG...
Pro has flag lines.. so multiple flags is not a big problem, I reckon.
Don't hold your breath though.. you still look at the game from the wrong angle. These kinda costmetic details are only a secondairy priority, if not lower.. You want a few extra flags waving about on the Titanic? Well, that means everyone else has to sacrifice something else that makes a lot more sense to have in the sim! ;)
It's not a virtual Titanic museum. :doh:
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Why not use the 46-star US flag and fly it off Titanic's foremast? ;D
I could never understand why Ireland never got any official credit (Or is that the wrong Term) for Titanic. I personally think the place where a ship is built should be recognised. But then again, if that were the case nowerdays, You'd be seeing the Chinese/Japanese flag flying all over the place ::)
And yes, thats what's I meant about if the Irish flag were reversed! :doh:
But, about your idea for all the flags.....Titanic is already a very heavy model, thats why you never see any MP servers have it. (Or not many, anyway). Already, Titanic has a reputation for making peoples games very laggy, or slow. So adding more and more to it wouldn't help. Also, Why should V-STEP focus on just one ship...?
Why not be happy with Titanic, as it is? :)
Jack.
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Hi Jack,
Not wishing in any way to bring politics into it, but Belfast was part of the UK when Titanic was built there and it still is.
P.S. Did you get my joke Email?
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I know, Fred. On the MoSCoW Method scale, it ranks as
"Would be nice," (Dang it, Terry, that's not what the W stands for!) "Won't have," especially since having such flags disappear like lights would require expending at least part of Vstep's 30 employees.
But you bring up a good point on the flag lines! I almost forgot about how you can have up to 4 flags flying off any given ship. I wish morse lamps and communication flags were to trickle down to SS Pro ;D
Uh... is that possible? Or are the games to game-oriented for that?
And Traddles, that was my mistake for not reading my own rigging well enough ;D I am guessing that it was for eastbound trips. There was, in fact, a UK flag that could be flown from the mainmast. When I typed that up, it was assuming that Ship Sim had no way of telling a difference between inbound and outbound at a harbor.
Also, Jack, Ireland didn't construct Titanic. Even today, Belfast is in Norther Ireland, part of the UK. The Republic of Ireland wasn't sovereign in 1912 and as such had no courtesy flag.
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50 stars
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50 stars
From July 4th, 1908 to July 4th,1912 there were 46 stars on the US flag.
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Depends on how you look at it, I reckon. The game is basically set in present day.. But you can 'imagine' to be in 1912 if you pick an open sea environment I guess.
So you're both right. :thumbs:
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I figure, "How did a 1912 ship somehow get a 1960+ flag added to its flag locker?"
Anyway, Fred, as I asked before, how likely would it be for morse lamps and signal flags to trickle down into the game version of Ship Simulator?
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Yeah, I know what you mean. I reckon you look at it from a 1912 standpoint.
Myself, I usually think of it as a replica, sailing in modern times. Something like that.
As for your question..
Well as I also said before, there's nothing I can say to satisfy your curiosity, unfortunatly. You'll have to wait and see what new features will be announced by Vstep.
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Would a replica not recreate the historic flags as well? ;)
Anyway, the topic was originally why the flags are so mapping error prone. Now that I think about it, does Ship Simulator Pro 2.0 suffer from this as well on its message flags?
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Well.. depends.. I would expect a modern flag, so as not to offend the states whose star is missing.. :doh:
And ...No it doesn't suffer.
no idea what the status is, I haven't checked them... but I bet the sim feels fine.. ;D
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Actually, Fred, law states that all official US flags never go obsolete, so the 46-star flag is still fully legal to fly, and still represents the whole United States.
And the flags always load 100% right in SS Pro 2.0? I wonder what their secret is....
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Actually, Fred, law states that all official US flags never go obsolete, so the 46-star flag is still fully legal to fly, and still represents the whole United States.
And the flags always load 100% right in SS Pro 2.0? I wonder what their secret is....
£2000 maybe...
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Who said anything about it being right or wrong..
I just said there was no suffering involved.. :doh:
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Does the game metaphorically suffer from flag problems, though?
I am trying to figure out what causes this issue.
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I'm not going to discuss pro matters here, I thought I was clear. :doh:
You don't have to 'figure it out', cause you haven't got enough background info to figure it out in the first place. plus..
It's a bug.. highly unlikely it will ever change.. there is not going to be another patch.. you can only live with it.
Fred
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Can we get back on Topic? ;)
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We never strayed off it in those last few posts! The topic was figuring out what caused the bug, which Fred just solved with a big, "I don't know and neither does anyone else!"
My guess had been that a flat rectangle tends to have all kinds of mapping bugs because its symmetry lets the texture fit on in all kinds of directions and ways, upside-down being especially easy.
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Also, Jack, Ireland didn't construct Titanic. Even today, Belfast is in Norther Ireland, part of the UK. The Republic of Ireland wasn't sovereign in 1912 and as such had no courtesy flag.
Oh Trust me, I know all about that...I'm Irish, you don't have to tell me that...No offence, but I do know what my own countries status is...
I won't get political over it...just leave it at that. :-X
Jack.
p.s. And yes I did get your E-Mail Traddles :lol:
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Oh Trust me, I know all about that...I'm Irish, you don't have to tell me that...No offence, but I do know what my own countries status is...
Sorry. It seemed to me at the time you were referring to the Republic of Ireland, not the island of Ireland. Belfast gets a TON of recognition for building Titanic, especially on the ship's 100 year anniversary of construction.
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Sorry. It seemed to me at the time you were referring to the Republic of Ireland, not the island of Ireland. Belfast gets a TON of recognition for building Titanic, especially on the ship's 100 year anniversary of construction.
When I say Ireland, I do mean it generally, Ireland, and Northern. To me it's Ireland :lol:
I hope so, it would be nice to see something happening in Belfast on her Hundreth.
Jack.
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We never strayed off it in those last few posts! The topic was figuring out what caused the bug, which Fred just solved with a big, "I don't know and neither does anyone else!"
My guess had been that a flat rectangle tends to have all kinds of mapping bugs because its symmetry lets the texture fit on in all kinds of directions and ways, upside-down being especially easy.
Who says no one knows? You seem to have taken a fancy to stating your own weird opinions about stuff as factual evidence of late. :doh:
No offence, but you use words that are related to the work involved in creating the stuff, but you probably have no clue HOW it actually works, I think. Symmetry of flat rectangular shapes causing mapping bugs? So no game can really have any flat rectangles with texture, for fear of getting mapping bugs..?
Does that also make it fall off in some cases, as we have all seen, or even make it dissapear alltogether? or would that suggest maybe we should look to the module that actually attaches the flag to the ship's model and not the texture as such? I'm just logically speculating. ;)
My educated guess: it's in the 'attaching' part, not the texture mapping. And as there is not going to be a new patch, this known bug is something you will have to live with. :-\
Case closed.
Figuring out something is nice.. but if you haven't really got a clue, all you do is give people wrong ideas.. :-\
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What a hot discussion about one tiny flag!
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Hot? How is it a hot discussion?
I'm just counter balancing, that's all. ;D
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so what is this a warm discussion then? :D
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A partially serious yet at the same time somewhat cheeky conversation of a moderate temperature.
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As a flightsim developer (albeit mostly panels, sounds and flight dynamics) I know that in any sim there has to be compromises unless you want to make one so vast in computing terms as to be almost unuseable.
Most 3d surfaces are made of enough polygons to give (for example) Port and Starboard sides so seperate textures can be used for logos, names etc. to make them always appear correct. A flag is usually made of a single (zero width) polygon and textured once. Obviously it will on occasions look wrong but it is a small part and it ain't usually worth making it a very slim 3d framework and using 2 texture sets.
BTW is it still correct to say that the UK Union Flag only becomes the Union Jack when flown from the jackstaff of one Her Majesty's Vessels? (Picky I know but similar to the way most people still refer to wing mirrors on cars when nearly all are now door mirrors).
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BTW is it still correct to say that the UK Union Flag only becomes the Union Jack when flown from the jackstaff of one Her Majesty's Vessels? (Picky I know but similar to the way most people still refer to wing mirrors on cars when nearly all are now door mirrors).
The case of Union flag versus Union jack has been debated so much and has so many different defining terms that it's more or less a matter of choice or preference.
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No, No No. A Jack is flown on a Jackstaff and a flag on a flagpole - unless your name is Jack, of course.
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Going right back to the start of this topic. ::) I was watching the last night of the promenade concerts at the Albert Hall yesterday evening, and the was a lady singer called Sarah Connelly, beautifully dressed as a Nelsonian admiral. She sang a British patriotic song wonderfully then drew her sword which had a Union Flag wrapped round it and when it unfurled it was UPSIDE DOWN. :doh: :doh: :thumbdown: