Ship Simulator
English forum => Ship Simulator 2008 => Topic started by: chouby-20 on July 25, 2007, 15:28:23
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It will be a good idea if Vstep change colours and name on the hull of container ships to have Maersk, CMA-CGM, MSC, EVERGREEN and the other big companies in the world.
http://www.physicalsupplychains.com/docs/CMA-CGM.jpg
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/d/d1/Liberty_Maersk.jpg
http://www.mscnederland.nl/images/MSC%20Corinna.jpg
http://ports.co.za/admin/large/image-362.jpg
http://www.bridgedeck.org/galleries_lo/Apl/APL-Bridge.jpg
;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
http://www.chinashipping.nl/index.php?objectID=989
http://www.shipfoto.co.uk/images/2004%20Photos/MOL-Integrity-9-April-2004.jpg
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Oh no… it’s not that simple. ::)
Believe me, I know. The companies you want VSTEP to add to the hull sides have not accepted the request from VSTEP.
And they have not even accepted my requests about adding such stuff. And if we do it without their permission they will of course use the copyright laws to claim a case of violated terms for their policy attached to the company logos and names, and send their big lawyers right at out throats. :(
So as a summary… it’s not an god idea. It’s a terrible one. :-\
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But they can do like the vermaas which let think of APL but they have change letter so they can do the same thing for the others ;)
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i think the reason they dont want to is that the company doesnt want to see a ship ''under'' their company wrecked or even sunk :p a good idea would be to let the users easilly change the texture of the ship like in Flight simulator, (i dont know if it is posible or not, it probably is?)
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It's perfectly alright for a company name to be used so long as the person using it on their model is not doing it for financial gain. Seeing as Vstep make these ships with the intention of making a profit on it that liberty is not open to them.
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Not completely. All names are registered trademarks and therefore may not be used without explicit permission of the nameholder.
Especially Maersk is quite hard on this. They really don't want you to use their name, official statement is what Sailor.Bob said above.
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This is true- I've had to be hard on some 'enthusiasts' for ilegal use of my company logos. I think what Capt D means is that if you create it for personal use, no one will know. But be careful about uploading to servers.
Corne_mo is quite right- ANY copyright infringement is ilegal. But in most contries it is a civil, not criminal matter...
Incidentally- even uploading to a host server could hold the server administrator vicariously liable. Not worth it.
Stu
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I think vstep needs to focus on the developement of the game not getting real companys names on there ships. Remember when someone asked Maersk to have premission to have there name on there ship and they said no.
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Not completely. All names are registered trademarks and therefore may not be used without explicit permission of the nameholder.
Especially Maersk is quite hard on this. They really don't want you to use their name, official statement is what Sailor.Bob said above.
No Wout has said in a previous thread that it is ok for someone to make a model using a company name and upload it for public use without needing permission from the company so long as they don't plan to make money with it.
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ever heard of copyright?
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ever heard of copyright?
Yes, but it's unlikely that they'll pursue anyone for a breach if they don't stand to a) damage the company or its reputation b) make any profit from it.
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No Wout has said in a previous thread that it is ok for someone to make a model using a company name and upload it for public use without needing permission from the company so long as they don't plan to make money with it.
What he said was:
Users can recreate any ship they want. As long as it is not for commercial use there usually is no problem. VStep however can't reproduce any ship they want.
I don't think that was OFFICIAL Vstep blessing to potentially infringe copyright law. I think Wout meant that Vstep certainly can not, but the individual user is unlikely to find a problem (not the "...usually no problem...")
Orinoco: I think you are quite right. But "unlikely" to does not equal "guaranteed no to". So just remember that if you do and IF it does cause you problems, then it is your own problem.
Stu
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I don't think that was OFFICIAL Vstep blessing to potentially infringe copyright law. I think Wout meant that Vstep certainly can not, but the individual user is unlikely to find a problem (not the "...usually no problem...")
Yeah but that's the whole I'm 99.99% sure thing isn't it? What they really mean is I'm 100% sure but I don't want to commit myself. The point is; you can remake a ship's/company's name without having to really worry about copyright. And even if a ship company does kick up a fuss then it will only likely be a request to remove the name from the model for future users.
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Well, the fact is it *IS* copyright infringement. Of that there is no debate. The debate is A)Will the copyright owner give permission. B)Will they care/do anything.
Remember that copyight infringement is a civil case, not criminal so the Police can not be called, etc. All they can do is issue Court proceedings against you. (Please note that some countries may view this as criminal, especially if the company is state owned!)
Stu
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I've done a bit of looking into this, just a bit mind you.
It's different in other parts of the world (particularly the US) but in the UK, one word is not considered enough for Copyright, so Cunard would have a hard time Copyrighting their name but Maersk Sealand on the other hand would not. Cunard would however be able to get their name Tradmarked.
This means that no one would be able to use their name for their business IF it served a similar purpose. No source that I have looked at, however, seems to cover the matter of name Copyright/Trademark when it is being used in a free product.
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Send a e-mail to all the major ship owners/cruise companies and ask them about using their add-ons on your free add-on. Post the results at this topic afterwards and we will see who is right and who is wrong. This can become a VERY interesting topic if we do that ;D
Also ask a lawyer or someone which work with such stuff (copyrights, trademarks etc..). Discussing this at this forum don't give us more or less permissions. It's correct that the laws and terms can variate from one country to another. The answer from the ship owner doesn't necessary have to be correct. Anyway I would ask for permission even if the add-on is freeware. The punishment is that they will ask you to remove the file from the website where people download your your add-on, or that you have to remove the content which is copyrighted to the ship owner. For payware add-ons they will probably sue you at once.
When it comes to pixels and colors, sizes of letters and the shapes I have no idea if this will make you more secure. You can probably paint the BMW logo 100 times if you want. Will it make you more secure or is it still copyright infringement? Who knows... Contact those who work with such stuff, they should know. ;)
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Copyright issues have been discussed in detail here before. I will look for the link later.
I have to protect my own company intellectual rights, so I know a little bit about it:
1. You AUTOMATICALLY have copyright on anything you produce (there are exceptions, but not really relevant to this).
2. You must PROVE you have the copyright. There is an easy way of doing this.
3. You can register a trademark of a single name- think about Pepsi, McDonalds etc. This is much more formal than copyright and is done through the patent office of your country.
4. It makes no difference whether your infringement is for commercial gain or not. Copyright infringement is copyright infringement. The only difference is whether a company WISHES to pursue you and the level of damages it can be awarded.
5. If you make a MATERIAL (substantial) change to a logo you will be ok. But changing it in a non-subsantial way (say an odd pixel here and there) will still render you liable to legal action.
Capt. D: You are quite right in what you say. Cunard would apply for a trademark (amazed if they haven't). But, as said above, it makes NO difference if the infringement is non-commercial. Only that a) they are less likely to find out and b)they may not be bothered.
In summary: Unless you have WRITTEN permission you infringing copyright. Trust me, I had to take legal action in 2005 against copyright infringement for my company.
Stu
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1. You AUTOMATICALLY have copyright on anything you produce (there are exceptions, but not really relevant to this).
I thought that was only in America, or at least in only a few countries but not Britain. Or is that the exception you were reffering to?
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I thought that was only in America, or at least in only a few countries but not Britain. Or is that the exception you were reffering to?
Nope, according to the Intellectual Property Office:
There is no official registration system for copyright in the United Kingdom (UK) and most other parts of the world. There are no forms to fill in and no fees to pay to get copyright protection.
So long as you have created a work that qualifies for copyright protection, that is it falls into one of the categories of material protected by copyright, you will have copyright protection without having to do anything to establish this. It is a requirement of various international conventions on copyright that copyright should be automatic with no need to register.
To help protect your copyright work, it is advisable to mark it with the © symbol, the name of the copyright owner and the year of publication. Although this is not essential, it will let others know when the term of protection started and hence whether it is still covered by copyright, and indicate who to approach should they need to ask permission to use the work.
http://www.ipo.gov.uk/copy/c-claim/c-auto.htm
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I thought that was only in America, or at least in only a few countries but not Britain. Or is that the exception you were reffering to?
No. It's automatic in every major country I know of- a patent isn't automatic- you apply for trademarks and patents.
Easiest way to PROVE copyright- send a letter to yourself by recorded delivery- DON'T open it. Most (all?) countries will accept the official postal stamp date as proof of the date the letter was sent- in this way you can prove the date you produced a document BEFORE someone else.
Stu
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Easiest way to PROVE copyright- send a letter to yourself by recorded delivery- DON'T open it. Most (all?) countries will accept the official postal stamp date as proof of the date the letter was sent- in this way you can prove the date you produced a document BEFORE someone else.
Clever. But how could you prove that the letter was sealed at the same time the stamp was bought?
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No. It's automatic in every major country I know of- a patent isn't automatic- you apply for trademarks and patents.
Easiest way to PROVE copyright- send a letter to yourself by recorded delivery- DON'T open it. Most (all?) countries will accept the official postal stamp date as proof of the date the letter was sent- in this way you can prove the date you produced a document BEFORE someone else.
Stu
LOL! Ok... i think I see the picture (if it's not copyrighted?) :D
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Yes. It is copyright. You owe me £25,000 for infringing it. I can prove it as I sent the picture by recorded delivery to me.... :P
Stu
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Clever. But how could you prove that the letter was sealed at the same time the stamp was bought?
Any stamp on a letter, or the envelope itself, in the UK is marked by an inking process in the sorting office, this has date and time stamped on it automatically.
This would prove posting (or at least time/date it got to the sorting office) ;)
Not sure about other countries though :-\
Regards.
DJM.
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Any stamp on a letter, or the envelope itself, in the UK is marked by an inking process in the sorting office, this has date and time stamped on it automatically.
This would prove posting (or at least time/date it got to the sorting office) ;)
Not sure about other countries though :-\
Regards.
DJM.
Yes, DJM. You are right
But recorded delivery will give it more credibility- it is POSSIBLE to forge a post office stamp. But much more difficult to forge recorded delivery paperwork
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Any stamp on a letter, or the envelope itself, in the UK is marked by an inking process in the sorting office, this has date and time stamped on it automatically.
This would prove posting (or at least time/date it got to the sorting office) ;)
Not sure about other countries though :-\
Regards.
DJM.
Ah thanks, I get it now. I was thinking that someone would be able to buy a stamp and use it several years later to falsify their copyright claim. But I forgot that the post office stamps it with ink if sent so making Stu's method work. So to sum up; I understand now! :D
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How about using parody names in the same font and colours, so for example Maersk will become Maarsk
or Stena Line = Sten Line, DFDS = DFBS etc etc??
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Yes this was even a problem in the recently released WW2 subsim "Silent Hunter 4" Ubisoft were not allowed to use the real WW2 medals as the US heraldic Institute refused also Grumman refused to let them use any of their WW2 US planes!
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Welcome to the Earth! :D
I wonder what will happen the day we big brains have copyrighted all kinds of titles and names and we don't have any name to use anymore ;D
It's like if you are going to call your ship for "The Cruiser" you need to search all single corner of the Internet just to be sure that nobody have taken the name... or you get sued. :-\
Imagine how many copyright infringements we have in the world today. Even large companies are fighting in the court just to prove their products and service names. :D
I guess that If you are going to use fictional names you have to search for a list of companies that is no longer valid (doesn't exist anymore) and use those names. The movie industry and the game industry also use a lot of fictional names. It's just that we who play this game want to see the ships with their original name, like Queen Mary 2, Jewel of the Seas... (and all these "...of the seas"). And when RCCL don't have any more of-the-seas name to put on their cruise ships they start to use "....of freedom".
I know about the Genesis that will arrive somewhere in 2010. I also know a band of musicians which use the same name "Genesis". :P
If you are going to call your boat "apple", well then you got the Machintosh Apple to worry about... ;D
This is all totally ridiculous to be straight forward. It will end up in a giant circus someday... ::)
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Clever. But how could you prove that the letter was sealed at the same time the stamp was bought?
Not the stamp with the Queens head, that you lick on the back. The ink stamp that the post office print on it. Dope! ;)
Stu
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Welcome to the Earth! :D
I wonder what will happen the day we big brains have copyrighted all kinds of titles and names and we don't have any name to use anymore ;D
It's like if you are going to call your ship for "The Cruiser" you need to search all single corner of the Internet just to be sure that nobody have taken the name... or you get sued. :-\
Imagine how many copyright infringements we have in the world today. Even large companies are fighting in the court just to prove their products and service names. :D
I guess that If you are going to use fictional names you have to search for a list of companies that is no longer valid (doesn't exist anymore) and use those names. The movie industry and the game industry also use a lot of fictional names. It's just that we who play this game want to see the ships with their original name, like Queen Mary 2, Jewel of the Seas... (and all these "...of the seas"). And when RCCL don't have any more of-the-seas name to put on their cruise ships they start to use "....of freedom".
I know about the Genesis that will arrive somewhere in 2010. I also know a band of musicians which use the same name "Genesis". :P
If you are going to call your boat "apple", well then you got the Machintosh Apple to worry about... ;D
This is all totally ridiculous to be straight forward. It will end up in a giant circus someday... ::)
Err... HOLD ON >:( I'VE copyrighted the word 'ridiculous'. You have no right to use it and I'll see you in court. :D
Joking anyway: Can't copyright these sort of words
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I'm sure I read somewhere that you can only copyright a name for the product you are selling. So Genesis would only be able to sue if it was another band that was using the name. Otherwise they would be in copyright infingement with God! :D
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No. That isn't true either. You have copyright over anything you create- IF you can prove it (hence my suggestion earlier).
It isn't quite as straightforward as all that, which is why copyright infringement cases drag on. And on. And...
You see, the band Genesis can not claim to have invented the word and MAYBE the church could claim a copyright... but then WHICH church?
A good example (IMHO) is that you could use the word Stena- as this is a common enough name- but not stenaline, which is clearly a trade name.
Or a better one... MS- it's a trade mark, but also an abbreviation of multiple sclerosis. If you wanted to use MS in relation to computers, you may come unstuck- but would Billy Gates start suing every doctor? No, of course not.
Best bet is too use google and come up with your own interpretation of the law/
Stu
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Best bet is too use google and come up with your own interpretation of the law/
Until a judge tells you: "you're wrong and that will be a gazillion pounds in damages please." :D
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It's always best to get professional advice...
Remember that what the law really means, and what will happen aren't always the same.
1. You have to get caught
2. The copyright owner has to be annoyed.
3. The copyright owner will usually not pursue it if you pay the fee/ stop doing it UNLESS you're doing it for profit, then they might hammer you.
My opinion only. Not condoning theft of copyright. Please seek legal advice.
Stu