Topic: Container ship (Read 12001 times)

chouby-20 · « **on:** July 25, 2007, 15:28:23 »

It will be a good idea if Vstep change colours and name on the hull of container ships to have Maersk, CMA-CGM, MSC, EVERGREEN and the other big companies in the world.

http://www.physicalsupplychains.com/docs/CMA-CGM.jpg

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/d/d1/Liberty_Maersk.jpg

http://www.mscnederland.nl/images/MSC%20Corinna.jpg

http://ports.co.za/admin/large/image-362.jpg

http://www.bridgedeck.org/galleries_lo/Apl/APL-Bridge.jpg

http://www.chinashipping.nl/index.php?objectID=989

http://www.shipfoto.co.uk/images/2004%20Photos/MOL-Integrity-9-April-2004.jpg

JHB · « **Reply #1 on:** July 25, 2007, 17:54:25 »

Oh noâ€¦ itâ€™s not that simple.

Believe me, I know. The companies you want VSTEP to add to the hull sides have not accepted the request from VSTEP.
And they have not even accepted my requests about adding such stuff. And if we do it without their permission they will of course use the copyright laws to claim a case of violated terms for their policy attached to the company logos and names, and send their big lawyers right at out throats.

So as a summaryâ€¦ itâ€™s not an god idea. Itâ€™s a terrible one. $:-\$

chouby-20 · « **Reply #2 on:** July 25, 2007, 18:30:45 »

But they can do like the vermaas which let think of APL but they have change letter so they can do the same thing for the others

Sailor.Bob · « **Reply #3 on:** July 26, 2007, 18:52:58 »

i think the reason they dont want to is that the company doesnt want to see a ship ''under'' their company wrecked or even sunk :p a good idea would be to let the users easilly change the texture of the ship like in Flight simulator, (i dont know if it is posible or not, it probably is?)

Captain Davies · « **Reply #4 on:** July 26, 2007, 21:43:44 »

It's perfectly alright for a company name to be used so long as the person using it on their model is not doing it for financial gain. Seeing as Vstep make these ships with the intention of making a profit on it that liberty is not open to them.

corne_mo · « **Reply #5 on:** July 26, 2007, 22:14:30 »

Not completely. All names are registered trademarks and therefore may not be used without explicit permission of the nameholder.
Especially Maersk is quite hard on this. They really don't want you to use their name, official statement is what Sailor.Bob said above.

Stuart2007 · « **Reply #6 on:** July 26, 2007, 22:31:45 »

This is true- I've had to be hard on some 'enthusiasts' for ilegal use of my company logos. I think what Capt D means is that if you create it for personal use, no one will know. But be careful about uploading to servers.

Corne_mo is quite right- ANY copyright infringement is ilegal. But in most contries it is a civil, not criminal matter...

Incidentally- even uploading to a host server could hold the server administrator vicariously liable. Not worth it.

Stu

Ship Sim · « **Reply #7 on:** July 27, 2007, 05:56:23 »

I think vstep needs to focus on the developement of the game not getting real companys names on there ships. Remember when someone asked Maersk to have premission to have there name on there ship and they said no.

Captain Davies · « **Reply #8 on:** July 27, 2007, 18:28:11 »

Quote from: corne_mo on July 26, 2007, 22:14:30

Not completely. All names are registered trademarks and therefore may not be used without explicit permission of the nameholder.
Especially Maersk is quite hard on this. They really don't want you to use their name, official statement is what Sailor.Bob said above.

No Wout has said in a previous thread that it is ok for someone to make a model using a company name and upload it for public use without needing permission from the company so long as they don't plan to make money with it.

shipfan55 · « **Reply #9 on:** July 27, 2007, 18:28:52 »

ever heard of copyright?

Orinoco · « **Reply #10 on:** July 27, 2007, 19:09:04 »

Quote from: shipfan55 on July 27, 2007, 18:28:52

ever heard of copyright?

Yes, but it's unlikely that they'll pursue anyone for a breach if they don't stand to a) damage the company or its reputation b) make any profit from it.

Stuart2007 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 27, 2007, 21:55:05 »

Quote from: Captain Davies on July 27, 2007, 18:28:11

No Wout has said in a previous thread that it is ok for someone to make a model using a company name and upload it for public use without needing permission from the company so long as they don't plan to make money with it.

What he said was:

Quote from: Wout on July 11, 2007, 20:00:45

Users can recreate any ship they want. As long as it is not for commercial use there usually is no problem. VStep however can't reproduce any ship they want.

I don't think that was OFFICIAL Vstep blessing to potentially infringe copyright law. I think Wout meant that Vstep certainly can not, but the individual user is unlikely to find a problem (not the "...usually no problem...")

Orinoco: I think you are quite right. But "unlikely" to does not equal "guaranteed no to". So just remember that if you do and IF it does cause you problems, then it is your own problem.

Stu

Captain Davies · « **Reply #12 on:** July 27, 2007, 22:39:20 »

Quote from: Stuart2007 on July 27, 2007, 21:55:05

I don't think that was OFFICIAL Vstep blessing to potentially infringe copyright law. I think Wout meant that Vstep certainly can not, but the individual user is unlikely to find a problem (not the "...usually no problem...")

Yeah but that's the whole I'm 99.99% sure thing isn't it? What they really mean is I'm 100% sure but I don't want to commit myself. The point is; you can remake a ship's/company's name without having to really worry about copyright. And even if a ship company does kick up a fuss then it will only likely be a request to remove the name from the model for future users.

Stuart2007 · « **Reply #13 on:** July 27, 2007, 22:41:03 »

Well, the fact is it *IS* copyright infringement. Of that there is no debate. The debate is A)Will the copyright owner give permission. B)Will they care/do anything.

Remember that copyight infringement is a civil case, not criminal so the Police can not be called, etc. All they can do is issue Court proceedings against you. (Please note that some countries may view this as criminal, especially if the company is state owned!)

Stu

Captain Davies · « **Reply #14 on:** July 28, 2007, 00:09:42 »

I've done a bit of looking into this, just a bit mind you.

It's different in other parts of the world (particularly the US) but in the UK, one word is not considered enough for Copyright, so Cunard would have a hard time Copyrighting their name but Maersk Sealand on the other hand would not. Cunard would however be able to get their name Tradmarked.

This means that no one would be able to use their name for their business IF it served a similar purpose. No source that I have looked at, however, seems to cover the matter of name Copyright/Trademark when it is being used in a free product.

JHB · « **Reply #15 on:** July 28, 2007, 09:38:14 »

Send a e-mail to all the major ship owners/cruise companies and ask them about using their add-ons on your free add-on. Post the results at this topic afterwards and we will see who is right and who is wrong. This can become a VERY interesting topic if we do that

Also ask a lawyer or someone which work with such stuff (copyrights, trademarks etc..). Discussing this at this forum don't give us more or less permissions. It's correct that the laws and terms can variate from one country to another. The answer from the ship owner doesn't necessary have to be correct. Anyway I would ask for permission even if the add-on is freeware. The punishment is that they will ask you to remove the file from the website where people download your your add-on, or that you have to remove the content which is copyrighted to the ship owner. For payware add-ons they will probably sue you at once.

When it comes to pixels and colors, sizes of letters and the shapes I have no idea if this will make you more secure. You can probably paint the BMW logo 100 times if you want. Will it make you more secure or is it still copyright infringement? Who knows... Contact those who work with such stuff, they should know.

Stuart2007 · « **Reply #16 on:** July 28, 2007, 22:44:27 »

Copyright issues have been discussed in detail here before. I will look for the link later.

I have to protect my own company intellectual rights, so I know a little bit about it:

1. You AUTOMATICALLY have copyright on anything you produce (there are exceptions, but not really relevant to this).
2. You must PROVE you have the copyright. There is an easy way of doing this.
3. You can register a trademark of a single name- think about Pepsi, McDonalds etc. This is much more formal than copyright and is done through the patent office of your country.
4. It makes no difference whether your infringement is for commercial gain or not. Copyright infringement is copyright infringement. The only difference is whether a company WISHES to pursue you and the level of damages it can be awarded.
5. If you make a MATERIAL (substantial) change to a logo you will be ok. But changing it in a non-subsantial way (say an odd pixel here and there) will still render you liable to legal action.

Capt. D: You are quite right in what you say. Cunard would apply for a trademark (amazed if they haven't). But, as said above, it makes NO difference if the infringement is non-commercial. Only that a) they are less likely to find out and b)they may not be bothered.

In summary: Unless you have WRITTEN permission you infringing copyright. Trust me, I had to take legal action in 2005 against copyright infringement for my company.

Stu

Captain Davies · « **Reply #17 on:** August 05, 2007, 16:59:32 »

Quote from: Stuart2007 on July 28, 2007, 22:44:27

1. You AUTOMATICALLY have copyright on anything you produce (there are exceptions, but not really relevant to this).

I thought that was only in America, or at least in only a few countries but not Britain. Or is that the exception you were reffering to?

Orinoco · « **Reply #18 on:** August 05, 2007, 17:26:30 »

Quote from: Captain Davies on August 05, 2007, 16:59:32

I thought that was only in America, or at least in only a few countries but not Britain. Or is that the exception you were reffering to?

Nope, according to the Intellectual Property Office:

Quote

There is no official registration system for copyright in the United Kingdom (UK) and most other parts of the world. There are no forms to fill in and no fees to pay to get copyright protection.

So long as you have created a work that qualifies for copyright protection, that is it falls into one of the categories of material protected by copyright, you will have copyright protection without having to do anything to establish this. It is a requirement of various international conventions on copyright that copyright should be automatic with no need to register.

To help protect your copyright work, it is advisable to mark it with the Â© symbol, the name of the copyright owner and the year of publication. Although this is not essential, it will let others know when the term of protection started and hence whether it is still covered by copyright, and indicate who to approach should they need to ask permission to use the work.

http://www.ipo.gov.uk/copy/c-claim/c-auto.htm

Stuart2007 · « **Reply #19 on:** August 05, 2007, 21:52:31 »

Quote from: Captain Davies on August 05, 2007, 16:59:32

I thought that was only in America, or at least in only a few countries but not Britain. Or is that the exception you were reffering to?

No. It's automatic in every major country I know of- a patent isn't automatic- you apply for trademarks and patents.

Easiest way to PROVE copyright- send a letter to yourself by recorded delivery- DON'T open it. Most (all?) countries will accept the official postal stamp date as proof of the date the letter was sent- in this way you can prove the date you produced a document BEFORE someone else.

Stu

Captain Davies · « **Reply #20 on:** August 05, 2007, 22:31:42 »

Quote from: Stuart2007 on August 05, 2007, 21:52:31

Easiest way to PROVE copyright- send a letter to yourself by recorded delivery- DON'T open it. Most (all?) countries will accept the official postal stamp date as proof of the date the letter was sent- in this way you can prove the date you produced a document BEFORE someone else.

Clever. But how could you prove that the letter was sealed at the same time the stamp was bought?

JHB · « **Reply #21 on:** August 05, 2007, 22:52:56 »

Quote from: Stuart2007 on August 05, 2007, 21:52:31

No. It's automatic in every major country I know of- a patent isn't automatic- you apply for trademarks and patents.

Easiest way to PROVE copyright- send a letter to yourself by recorded delivery- DON'T open it. Most (all?) countries will accept the official postal stamp date as proof of the date the letter was sent- in this way you can prove the date you produced a document BEFORE someone else.

Stu

LOL! Ok... i think I see the picture (if it's not copyrighted?)

Stuart2007 · « **Reply #22 on:** August 05, 2007, 23:36:11 »

Yes. It is copyright. You owe me Â£25,000 for infringing it. I can prove it as I sent the picture by recorded delivery to me....

Stu

[RWP]DJM · « **Reply #23 on:** August 06, 2007, 00:21:48 »

Quote from: Captain Davies on August 05, 2007, 22:31:42

Clever. But how could you prove that the letter was sealed at the same time the stamp was bought?

Any stamp on a letter, or the envelope itself, in the UK is marked by an inking process in the sorting office, this has date and time stamped on it automatically.

This would prove posting (or at least time/date it got to the sorting office)

Not sure about other countries though $:-\$

Regards.

DJM.

Stuart2007 · « **Reply #24 on:** August 06, 2007, 01:25:09 »

Quote from: [RWP]DJM on August 06, 2007, 00:21:48

Any stamp on a letter, or the envelope itself, in the UK is marked by an inking process in the sorting office, this has date and time stamped on it automatically.

This would prove posting (or at least time/date it got to the sorting office)

Not sure about other countries though $:-\$

Regards.

DJM.

Yes, DJM. You are right
But recorded delivery will give it more credibility- it is POSSIBLE to forge a post office stamp. But much more difficult to forge recorded delivery paperwork

Author Topic: Container ship (Read 12001 times)

Ship Sim