Ship Simulator
English forum => Small talk => Topic started by: Orinoco on July 19, 2007, 10:11:56
-
Since there are tons of non-UK people on here (I'm looking at you, Scandinavia!) I thought it would be interesting to see where people lie on this.
So, are you a pro-EU or anti-EU?
Please remember that the EU and 'Europe' are not the same thing.
I don't really want to turn this into an argument, so I recommend everyone just states whether they're 'pro-EU', 'anti-EU' or 'Don't know'.
I'm especially interested in the opinion of our Scandinavian friends.
I'll go first:
I'm anti-EU.
-
For political reasons... I will not reveal my political opinion! ;D
Regards
groennegaard
-
For political reasons... I will not reveal my political opinion! ;D
Regards
groennegaard
:D
-
Do you want the UK to join Norden (official co-operation in the Nordic region) instead? ;)
http://www.norden.org/start/start.asp?lang=6
Perhaps the fact that you are descendants of Danish vikings will help you in this matter... ;D
Regards
groennegaard
-
Not sure where my origins lie actually. My mum's side of the family originates from the North East (suggesting vikings etc), whereas my dad's side (and myself) originate from the South West (suggesting Anglo-Saxon).
Who knows, I could be one of the rare few who, despite all the invasions, is actually 100% English. :o
Besides, I don't think Iceland would have us in the Nordic Council, after the whole 'Cod Wars' incidents. :D
-
For political reasons... I will not reveal my political opinion! ;D
Regards
groennegaard
A good point, especially if this is true:
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com (http://http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com)
-
I'm not sure how this discussion is relevant to this forum. ??? ??? ???
-
I'm not sure how this discussion is relevant to this forum. ??? ??? ???
It's not, that's why it's in 'small talk'. But, since you're American, what's your thoughts on the proposed 'North American Union'?
-
I'm not sure how this discussion is relevant to this forum. ??? ??? ???
You are allowed to discuss almost anything on the Small talk board. The topic does not have to be relevant to Ship Simulator.
Regards
groennegaard
-
I'm not sure the simple yes or no will cover it. I'm pro EU to an extent, but against in other ways. I beleive a hybrid is in order.
-
Im anti-EU.
-
Im anti-EU too :P
-
Im anti-EU.. Leave my Oil and gazzzzzz alone :P
-
Anti EU
(thanks Orinoco for acknowledging the difference between Europe and the EU)
Stu
-
Perhaps the fact that you are descendants of Danish vikings will help you in this matter... ;D
A university in UK did some research into this. They found a lot of Scandinavian DNA in the North of England, but very little in the South.
It seems that the defeat of Harold Hadrada reduced the number of Viking descendants living in England.
Stu
-
A university in UK did some research into this. They found a lot of Scandinavian DNA in the North of England, but very little in the South.
It seems that the defeat of Harold Hadrada reduced the number of Viking descendants living in England.
Stu
Apparently the bulk of people in the UK are either Germanic or Celtic, mostly Germanic though.
-
Or the bulk of Germanic people are actually British... ;)
Stu
-
Or the bulk of Germanic people are actually British... ;)
Stu
:D :D
-
Or the bulk of Germanic people are actually British... ;)
Stu
Interesting theory. ;D
-
Thanks Capt D. Whilst it would appear unlikely that my point is correct, it does highlight the way research is done these days.
They start with a theory and then look for ways to prove it rather than look at what they have and find a theory from it. WHO says that we are descended from Germanic tribes and not vice versa?
Stu
-
I think the assumptions are more to do with history than science, seeing as Britain (for instance) was regularly invaded (during the period Germanic..ness enterd the gene pool) rather than being the invader. The only exception being my sessions on the Total War games! :D
-
I am absolutly not anti E.U.
You have everywhere the same money and you don't need a visum to go into other contries.
Why are you all against the E.U?
Together we stand strong, that is my opinion.
@Captain Davies:
And if Britain isn't invaded then they'll make their own war in the New World (America). Then they fight their own country(with the French).
-
Why are you all against the E.U?
I have lots of good reasons that I dont want Norway to join the EU. But I recommend all in this forum not to answer that question. This could cause a huge arguement. hehe.. Lets just respect our standings. :)
/Cheers
I don't really want to turn this into an argument, so I recommend everyone just states whether they're 'pro-EU', 'anti-EU' or 'Don't know'.
I'm especially interested in the opinion of our Scandinavian friends.
-
@Captain Davies:
And if Britain isn't invaded then they'll make their own war in the New World (America). Then they fight their own country(with the French).
Not likely, seeing as I destroyed them! ;D But I was excomunicated for my troubles though. :( But that's wrong cause they started it! :D
Why are you all against the E.U?
I like the whole thing about being able to cross borders no problem, and the plans to have the mobile phone rates reduced is going to be really handy. But when it comes to money; the £ is stronger than the € and I'm used to it. When I see something priced in € I have no idea if it is a good deal or not, where as with £ I know where I'm standing.
Plans to convert Britain to Imperial rather than Metric were recently dropped, but had they not been people would have been forced to work with a system they were not used to. It was total nonsense.
On top of that, Britain is going through decentralisation in the form of devolution to the Welsh Assembly, Scottish Parliament and Northern Irish Assembly. It's working out well because these government bodies are nearer to the problem and are better placed to sort them. Losing power to some major European body which had to please everyone would be centralisation, and a huge step back from the improvements going on right now.
I have lots of good reasons that I dont want Norway to join the EU. But I recommend all in this forum not to answer that question. This could cause a huge arguement. hehe.. Lets just respect our standings. :)
I think it is perfectly possible for this to go on without becoming an argument, and I think that the waters between 'debate' and 'argument' have been far too muddied. I feel it's a shame that people are not willing to debate more often.
-
Capt D- the euro is just something to get used to. I do a fair bit of trade with France and I trade in the ECU for convenience. That said, I am totally against the Euro for internal British trade and am totally against the EU.
Sam- The common market was an excellent idea- free trade amongst neighbours. But I do not want to be ruled by the EU- a group of sinister people that I can not elect- any more than I think Belgium wants to be Ruled by Britain.
As for decentralised governments- not sure I agree with you there, Capt D. The Scottish parliment building for example ran millions over budget, yet has not improved anything in Scotland. It makes it easier though to swallow up into a federal europe.
I think many people here are too young to fully understand the implications of the differences in culture between Britain and Europe. And I reiterate I am PRO Europe, just not EU. Our legal system is totally different for example- look at the amount of confrontations in the EU court. And does anyone really think the European convention on human rights is up to the job? That was devised over 60 years ago at the end of a much less pleasant era. To understand the difference in British Vs Europe law you need to go back to the Napoleonic era.
Capt D- on the German/British DNA- there are many similarities don't you think. Just look at the German humour for example, just like ours (very dry)
Stu
-
As for decentralised governments- not sure I agree with you there, Capt D. The Scottish parliment building for example ran millions over budget, yet has not improved anything in Scotland. It makes it easier though to swallow up into a federal europe.
Well in my opinion the welsh Assembly has done a far better job catering for the needs of Welsh people that the Parliament in London ever has.
Capt D- on the German/British DNA- there are many similarities don't you think. Just look at the German humour for example, just like ours (very dry)
Agreed.
-
Well in my opinion the welsh Assembly has done a far better job catering for the needs of Welsh people that the Parliament in London ever has.
You mean like longer waiting lists for operations?
-
Well, you English people just allways have to do difficult :P.
Driving on the wrong side of the road ;D ;)
But I do not agree why u say that the € is weaker than the pound, if you change now, than you will get something arround 1,5 € per pound.
You just have to learn to use it.
Before we had the € in Belgium, we payed in francs.
1€ = 40,... francs If that aint a difference!
So somethging that costed 2000 francs before costs now €50.
But why do you fear getting ruled by another country, Belgium is in the E.U and still has it own politics!
-
Greetings,
Yes,and when i go on holidays in France,i do not have to change money anymore.So the bank cant rip you of anymore,with the exchange rate of money.
Regards
Marc
-
But I do not agree why u say that the € is weaker than the pound, if you change now, than you will get something arround 1,5 € per pound.
You just have to learn to use it.
Then € is weaker my friend ;)
But why do you fear getting ruled by another country, Belgium is in the E.U and still has it own politics!
Here in Norway we are decentrelising cause of problems with having all the different goverment departments centrelised in our capital. Decentrelising is also a good way to populate the contry. We have a lot of small towns in Norway, and we need to keep them populated to keep our different industries, even though its not always that profitable. If we center all politics in Belgium the politicians will not get the "feel" of what is happening locally in Norway or the towns. They only watch statistics, you cant see the Norwegian culture and see what we need as Norwegians from statistics. Sometimes we need to do things non-profit to keep the people satisfied. Centrelising and privatisation of some fundamental goverment bussineses is not the way to go. Dont missunderstand me. Im not against making money, but no matter at all costs.
We are a small country, therfor we are not going to get many delegates in the EU parlament, and also not getting many votes. I dont want EU to deside what to do with and in Norway. I am affraid that they will suck out all our resources, and since we are a small country, we will not get mutch back. Why do you think we are fighting of all the Spanish trawlers in North-Norway?
In 1814 we got our own constitution and 1905 we finally got our own king, after several hundreds of years of fighting with the Swedish and Danish. I dont want to loose my sovereigty and independance as a Norwegian. If Norway joins EU and agrees to a joint constitution, I will... I think the Norwegian nasjonality is very important to the most of us. It is part of our culture.
EU si going to be like a cind of a republic in the future. Like a big version USA. I dont want to be a part of that. Nothing wrong with that, is it? We can still be friends, trade, respect each other and do whatever neighbours do. :)
Norway is still a part of the EEC. A rotten deal for us, but we have to live with it to keep us outside EU, I guess.
This is my oppinion, and not every Norwegians offcourse. ;D
/cheers
-
I think, its funny that only the people who are not in the EU (British and Norwegian), are anti EU. Is there anybody anti EU who knows what he talks about?
-
Actually, I don't know a lot of politics.
But I am talking about what I experienced while changing into E.U.
I had to addapt myself but it only became better after it.
@Redbeard;
Have you red what I said?
The pound is another unit!
In numbers it is higher than the €, but not in valeu.
You do not come with facts, what you say is just an opinion.
-
I think, its funny that only the people who are not in the EU (British and Norwegian), are anti EU. Is there anybody anti EU who knows what he talks about?
Er, the UK IS in the EU.
Ok, you want some reasons:
1) The EU is corrupt. It has never had its accounts signed off.
2) There is nothing the EU does that we cannot accomplish ourselves.
3) The EU charges an extortionate 'membership' fee.
4) The EU intends to split European Countries into 'Autonomous Territorial Entities'
5) The EU looks more like a State every day, this is not the direction a trade body should be taking.
6) The UK's largest single trading partner in the world is the USA. This proves that we don't need a supra-national organisation telling us what to do, we don't need EU laws and we don't need common standards or foreign regulations. So as above, the EU is a waste of space.
7) The EU erodes National Sovereignty, it's stupid rules put British people out of business.
8 ) For every £1 the EU spends in the UK, it costs the UK £2.60.
et cetera, et cetera.
-
Actually, I don't know a lot of politics.
But I am talking about what I experienced while changing into E.U.
I had to addapt myself but it only became better after it.
@Redbeard;
Have you red what I said?
The pound is another unit!
In numbers it is higher than the €, but not in valeu.
You do not come with facts, what you say is just an opinion.
What do you mean?
The £ does have a higher value. £1 is worth €1.50, £1 is worth $2.
-
I'm anti-EU.
Only good thing, don't have to change money anymore.
The bad thing, everything is double the price since the Euro.
I'm not going to express me feelings abaut the EU. Most things are allready said. ;)
-
I think, its funny that only the people who are not in the EU (British and Norwegian), are anti EU. Is there anybody anti EU who knows what he talks about?
I most sertanly know what im talking about. Aperantly you dont, my friend. UK has been in EU for a very long time.
@Redbeard;
Have you red what I said?
The pound is another unit!
In numbers it is higher than the €, but not in valeu.
You do not come with facts, what you say is just an opinion.
Hehe... Yep I have read it. Several times actually, cause i couldnt understand how you can beleeve that € is more worth than £.
If you have 1€ and want to buy £, you get 0,68£. Did this explain it for u? :)
And about the facts:
- It is a fact that we had were fighting with the Danish and Swedish for several hundred years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway) (Jump down to the section about history ;) )
-How can you argue with the fact that norway is decentrelising and our experiences with centrelising?
-I actually work with economics and marketing, so I know for a fact that if you are gonna govern / rule a country / business far apart from the source, you have to rely a 100% on statistics.
-Its a fact that Noway would probably get arround 11 delegates in the EU parlament. We do not get a lot of wotes then vs Germanys 99 delegates.
Small countries have almost nothing to say vs largly popullated countries in the EU. Read the Treaty of Nice http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/lex/en/treaties/index.htm (http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/lex/en/treaties/index.htm)
The rest is my opinion, thats my freedom of speech. And I'll quote my self on it:
This is my oppinion, and not every Norwegians offcourse. ;D
-
I'm glad Norway aint a part of EU :)
-
Greetings,
Do we need this discusion about the EU,on this forum !!
It becomes sometimes hot,and this is not the idea of this forum.
We can better st&art talking about something else than politics.
Regards
Marc
-
I agree with Marc. That's why i didn't gave my opinion on this matter. Because it would get to hot to handle. ;)
Mebay it's best if we would close this one by our selves, and agree on not discussing politics on this forum again? :)
-
Hehe.. You are right i guess. Politics involve a lot of feelings. I just cant shut-up when it comes to something im absolutely against.. ;) For my part, I have said what I had to say about my opinion... I agree to disagree ;)
-
I think, its funny that only the people who are not in the EU (British and Norwegian), are anti EU. Is there anybody anti EU who knows what he talks about?
I find that a little offensive. Are you saying that anyone who voices an alternative opinion is wrong? This is a founding principle of fascism. But I suppose you realise this?
Look at the recent 'no' votes for the EU superstate- France principally- voted 'no' to European Superstate... Tells you all when even a founding country says the plan has gone wrong.
I am amazed that everytime I or anyone else says anything bad about the EU we're considered racists or nut cases... Which goes to show the rationale behind the EU.
Sam: Without patronising anyone, at 16 you have't experience of the working environment to know the full effects of EU law. In one respect, the Euro makes it easier to deal with my French business partners. Yet, I estimate the effect of disasterous EU policies are adding 13-14% to my annual costs. The red tape really is horrendous. The EU in principle is a good idea, but in practice it is weakening our position against the rest of the world.
Stu
-
PLEASE NOTE: I think we might be in danger of turning this thread into a slanging match. We all have our opinions and I have enjoyed taking part.
But there have been complaints from forum members that it might be causing offence.
PLEASE remember that if it oversteps the line then it will be closed.[/colour]
Stu
EDIT: Unfortunately this thread has caused one too many complaints, so regrettably it must be locked before one of the administrators becomes involved.