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Author Topic: Is it just me.... or...?  (Read 11998 times)

Mad_Fred

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Re: Is it just me.... or...?
« Reply #25 on: July 26, 2008, 11:24:41 »

Just one question I have then... how do you know it's not moving forward?
You cannot look into VSTEP's kitchen, so to speak, can you?

We as staffmembers are lucky enough to be able to see more of what goes on behind the scenes, and some of the remarks posted here would not have been made if all of us here had that same ability.

They just opened the shipyard, there is one new ship, and another one coming. NH isn't that old yet either. And as Terry so rightly pointed out, it takes a long long time to get a ship functioning properly, the model itself is just the tip of the iceberg. You cannot expect them to put out addon after addon after addon. These things take lots of time.

There are (off the top of my head) 25 or 26 ships we can sail and do all kinds of jobs with. Together with the ME, the sky is the limit.  :)

If you are bored with all those vessels, then a new one will probably bore you quite fast aswell.

VSTEP is well aware of the wishes of the customers, and most of the things that were added or changed, were suggested by the community. They are indeed moving forward all the time, as not doing so would be very bad for business. But the community often seems to forget how much time and effort is involved and I'm sorry to say, expects a bit too much, sometimes.

That's just how I see it...

Regards,
Fred


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IRI5HJ4CK

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Re: Is it just me.... or...?
« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2008, 11:49:15 »

Just one question I have then... how do you know it's not moving forward?
You cannot look into VSTEP's kitchen, so to speak, can you?

We as staffmembers are lucky enough to be able to see more of what goes on behind the scenes, and some of the remarks posted here would not have been made if all of us here had that same ability.

They just opened the shipyard, there is one new ship, and another one coming. NH isn't that old yet either. And as Terry so rightly pointed out, it takes a long long time to get a ship functioning properly, the model itself is just the tip of the iceberg. You cannot expect them to put out addon after addon after addon. These things take lots of time.

There are (off the top of my head) 25 or 26 ships we can sail and do all kinds of jobs with. Together with the ME, the sky is the limit.  :)

If you are bored with all those vessels, then a new one will probably bore you quite fast aswell.

VSTEP is well aware of the wishes of the customers, and most of the things that were added or changed, were suggested by the community. They are indeed moving forward all the time, as not doing so would be very bad for business. But the community often seems to forget how much time and effort is involved and I'm sorry to say, expects a bit too much, sometimes.

That's just how I see it...

Regards,
Fred




But, v-step haven't even bothered to take any notice of Goax's model, they should at least give him feedback, even if v-step don't want it in the game. I don't expect a lot from v-step, but i do expect that when we suggest something, that we get feedback from v-step.

Also, Flight Simulator constantly make improvements and develop new things. And with every new game, a huge leap forward is made, but, with v-step, we aren't getting anything "new" as such, we are getting some new ships, i'll admitt that, and i am pleased with them. But, there haven't been hardly any changes as regards to more interactivity, whereas Flight Simulator is constantly adding new things to make it more realistic, we got the patch for the engine switches, fuel gages etc. but that is just the basics of a ship.

Even Virtual Sailor includes GPS's on the bridge, lights you can turn on and off etc. but i will admit, i think Virtual Sailor is no way near the standard of Ship Simulator, Ship Simulator being better. But what i mean is, if Virtual Sailor can have these interactive buttons and features on the bridge and outside, and its not a very good simulator, Why dosen't ship simulator have this? v-step is of far better quality so i would assume v-step could develop these things no problem?

And when we do suggest things, it is only for Ship Simulator's good, yet we don't seem to get any responce? again, I don't expect a lot, but i would think that at least, there should be some little developments to make our simulation a bit better? or we should recieve feedback on the idea, and plans for the future, i think John Carter has got the right idea.

I don't mean this to sound cheeky or rude, it is just my personal opinion, and what could make SS a little better :) and as a plus, v-step have done a great job with SS as a pretty new simulator, but these are just our suggestions to make it better. ;) :)

Jack.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2008, 11:51:53 by IRI5HJ4CK »
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Kind Regards,
Jack.

NathanC

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Re: Is it just me.... or...?
« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2008, 11:55:30 »

Just one question I have then... how do you know it's not moving forward?
You cannot look into VSTEP's kitchen, so to speak, can you?

They've had enough time to develop new features - so where are they?

I don't want to sound rude, i'm glad we have a ship simulator that doesn't look like some 1980s Nintendo game (*Virtual Sailor*) but VSTEO aren't doing much in the way of listening to our opinion, they just give us something incomplete (Pride of Rotterdam, Titanic, several features etc.) and hope we'll like it. And when we say it needs impoving, they wander off and make something else.

The Berge Stahl looked finished back in August 2007, and does it really take 1 year to convert all the necessary stuff and script the dynamics? If they had listened to us, instead of making a patch that was so bad it was taken off the site and working on a cruddy looking controller (that isn't even compatible for the newer game, but the 2006 version), we may of been sailing Goaxs wonderful work in the sim.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2008, 12:00:54 by NathanC »
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mvsmith

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Re: Is it just me.... or...?
« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2008, 11:57:49 »

Fred,
I think that General Motors is responsible for the problem: The rapidity with which they respond to customer requests for patches to fix problems, and updates to add new features to their cars, has produced unrealistic expectations. Their practice of responding to every suggestion with a personal letter of thanks from the CEO, along with a timetable for delivery on the request, has set a standard that VSTEP may find it difficult to meet.
Marty
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IRI5HJ4CK

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Re: Is it just me.... or...?
« Reply #29 on: July 26, 2008, 12:01:03 »

They've had enough time to develop new features - so where are they?

Yes, i have to agree with you there. Thats what everyone else seems to be saying as well, on the forum and on MP. This is what we are trying to get accross to v-step, we don't expect a lot, but like Nathan says, they have had a long time to develop new features, and if there are new features coming, why are we not told about them? and where are they?

Jack.
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Kind Regards,
Jack.

NathanC

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Re: Is it just me.... or...?
« Reply #30 on: July 26, 2008, 12:02:48 »

Jack has raised another point - why are we all sat around this forum kicking dust not knowing about these new features that are apparently being tested. VSTEP could at least tell us about upcoming features to keep us interested.
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mvsmith

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Re: Is it just me.... or...?
« Reply #31 on: July 26, 2008, 12:06:32 »

They've had enough time to develop new features - so where are they?


What an arrogant statement!
How can you know that they have had enough time? In fact the very idea that VSTEP must listen to you, and cater to your whims, reeks of arrogance, not to mention childishness and ignorance of what is involved.
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NathanC

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Re: Is it just me.... or...?
« Reply #32 on: July 26, 2008, 12:12:39 »

Oh not again......Is it possible to say something on this forum without someone stepping out and attacking one of your posts  >:(

I'm on breaking point with this forum, some members are rude, ignorant, VSTEP listen to no one. The sim was launched 1 year ago, they've had plenty of time to develop new features! If they just look at the Features Request board they could make some of the excellent ideas in the game and actually have more satisfied players, plus a better sim! All of these would make a better Simulation, that's what it is meant to be.

I don't know wether to stop posting here and keep my liscence keys so i can play Multiplayer or delete my account and go somewhere more pleasent......anywhere is more polite than here  ::)

I've met some pretty damn rude members on this forum............

Edit: Hang on a sec.....what's all this equipment in Virtual Sailor?


Well, this ship was made by a normal guy. VSTEP has a large development team and yet, they can't even put this equipment into the sim!? Useable or not, it can't be hard to just put it on the Bridge of a ship? Now that says something to me, a normal 3rd Party modeler can put all this detailed equipment into his ship but VSTEP cannot...
« Last Edit: July 26, 2008, 12:25:05 by NathanC »
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IRI5HJ4CK

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Re: Is it just me.... or...?
« Reply #33 on: July 26, 2008, 12:19:34 »

What an arrogant statement!
How can you know that they have had enough time? In fact the very idea that VSTEP must listen to you, and cater to your whims, reeks of arrogance, not to mention childishness and ignorance of what is involved.


I find what you have said more ignorant, to be honest. You have no right to challange Nathan's opinion, when i say something i mean it as in my opinion, and what could make SS better, but i do not agree with direct attacks on members for their own personal opinions.

I will not be at this topic any more, otherwise i will blow my top

Jack.
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Kind Regards,
Jack.

Mad_Fred

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Re: Is it just me.... or...?
« Reply #34 on: July 26, 2008, 12:50:30 »

Let's not get unfriendly here, gentlemen. No need for that, we're all amongst friends here!  ;)

You can say that VSTEP has had enough time, but how do you know that for a fact?
You don't, that's really all there is to it.

I can take a look behind the scenes, I know what goes on with the testing stage of new features or addons. It's not as easy to "just make new stuff" as some of you like to think, I must say.

I can name plenty of games and sims that do not have as much development going on as SS08 has. It's all in the eye of the beholder, so to speak. I have lots of titles on my shelf that have had maybe one patch along the way, and no addons at all. Nor any further development.

You just got NH, that's not out too long, you have had a number of patches in (compared to other titles) quite rapid succession. Several big changes have been made to the sim, several bits of new content has been added, the shipyard has been opened, and with all this, they have been EXTREMELY busy, to take the sim to new levels.

How quick do you think they can come up with the next new stuff? Furie is just out, Elbe is due to follow, any idea how much work and testing goes into just those two ships? A LOT!

They are not sitting around slacking off, I can tell you. VSTEP also has to focus on SS09/10 now, so you can imagine that this takes extra time and effort too, which cannot be spent on SS08 at the same time.

You just cannot suggest that VSTEP is slacking off unless you have first hand knowledge of this, and to do so, is indeed arrogant. But you should not take a word like that as a personal attack, it's just the truth.

VSTEP is constantly doing what the community asks, as I said before, so you cannot claim that they do not listen. Just because someone has (what appears to be) a great idea, does not mean that it is ready to go for development. There's much more involved than just taking an idea and making it real. All changes that have been made, are made because the customer asked for it or complained about it.

The Berge Stahl was mentioned, well who ever said that it was being converted to SS08 right now? It was suggested, it is made, yes, but Goax also made the pushboat that we all got in NH. So his work IS in the game allready and not being ignored at all. Maybe Berge Stahl just isn't feasable at this point, because none of the harbors is really deep enough to take her. That would mean you can only use it in free roam in open seas. That's not worth all the development costs really. Right? Right!

I'm not saying that this is the case, because I don't know what the plans - if any - are for that vessel, but it seems logical and I just want to show you that there's more to think about. You might view the sim from an MP perspective, maybe you like to just sail around with your friends on MP. That's getting boring much faster than playing loads of custom mission that you could create yourself. Personally, that's much more my thing and as such I have years and years of material to work with... But to each his own of course.

Again, just because there are brilliant ideas in the suggestions board, does not mean that it's all possible right away, there can be serious changes needed in the game to make them happen that you and me might not know anything about. So how can we claim to know what's what then?

I agree with you that there are many good ideas that should really be in the game, but VSTEP also knows about those, they read the forum and we as staff also give them a lot of feedback in your name, trust me.
They do listen, and they do want to include the ideas of the community and the models that the talented guys like Goax make. But you can't have it all at the same time, it takes time. And they have to run a business, so if it is not cost effective, why should they do it? That would be unwise.

Sorry for this long post, heh heh.. but I just want to put things into perspective. Rest assured that VSTEP will always be aiming to make the sim better and to grant the wishes of the community, because they are their customers and without them there would be no product. But you have to realise how much work is involved and you cannot just go and say that they don't listen and don't deliver. Because that's just not fair to say without anything to back up your statement.

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pauljanaway1

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Re: Is it just me.... or...?
« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2008, 12:51:38 »

dont foget vstep only have 30 members of staff
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NathanC

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Re: Is it just me.... or...?
« Reply #36 on: July 26, 2008, 12:55:11 »

They are not sitting around slacking off, I can tell you. VSTEP also has to focus on SS09/10 now, so you can imagine that this takes extra time and effort too, which cannot be spent on SS08 at the same time.

In my opinion VSTEP should focus on expanding SS2008, not start developing a new game.

*Waits for Rude member to come along and call him Arrogant
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Denis

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Re: Is it just me.... or...?
« Reply #37 on: July 26, 2008, 12:57:38 »

Well, please calm down Nathan !

you wrote lots of things, but please stay calm. First of all, your post is aggressive, it's quite normal people reply  the same way (which is not my feeling about mvsmith reply, but that's another point).

Don't forget Ship Simulator is a game. It's not the only product from Vstep, all other products are for professional market, and those are certainly more important that Ship Sim, which is only for entertainment. If you have doubts about this, please have a look at VSTEP web site ( http://www.vstep.nl ). when you talk about "large development team", do you really believe there are 50 developpers, payed by Vstep, just to develop ship sim and addons ?? please be realistic !!

You said vstep was losing time developing a hardware platform. This one is developped by RailDriver, which has absolutely nothing in common with Vstep - http://www.raildriver.com/ .

Ship Sim still needs improvements, we all agree about that.

Things don't go fast enough for you, or don't go the way you think they should, but please pay attention to what you write . You're talking about men, who do their work the best they can, with lots of contraints you don't even imagine.
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TerryRussell

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Re: Is it just me.... or...?
« Reply #38 on: July 26, 2008, 13:06:21 »

Hi Chaps.

To add to Fred and Denis's comments: This topic has turned from a reasonable, well reasoned discussion into a bit of screaming match. No need!

Please gentlemen, take a deep breath before you post inflamatory comments or start shouting at other people. It's summer (in the northern hemisphere). The weather is nice and life is too short to have arguments about trivial matters.  ;D

I promise you, Vstep do listen to your comments. The fact that they don't always respond is not rudeness on their part, though. How many times have you asked Microsoft to do something? Ever get a reply? How about from Nintendo? or Bethseda? If Vstep answered all of the requests, they would have to loose a member of the programming team, most likely.

I suggest that you take the time to look through all of the threads on this forum about "Why dont' Vstep...." or "New Vessels" etc. You'll see that virtually every port in the world is wanted, with few people wanting the same ones. You'll see that almost every type of vessel is demanded, often with a statement about how simple it must be to do this, by the poster.

You'll see that every conceivable weather pattern is wanted, including waterspouts and monsoons and blizzards, not to mention those damned giant waves ( :P). You'll aslo see that every vessel type that someone wants, is matched by someone else who doesn't want it. "I want more big ships, I want more small ships, I hate big ships, I love big ships".

No matter what they do, someone will be disappointed. But at least you can tell them.

At the end of the day, Vstep have to pay their bills. For an addition to be worthwhile, it would have to sell some thousands or tens or hundreds of thousands of copies, just to recoup the development costs.

If a ship takes a man-year of time in total (I suspect in total it takes a lot more, but use this as an example), then someone's wages for the year must be covered. Plus the time of the HR dept and Finance Dept and Admin and the electricity and the Government taxes and... and... and... Work it out. The costs of development are immense. I know.

So, some on. A bit more tolerance, please. Chill out, eh?  ;D
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TerryRussell

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Re: Is it just me.... or...?
« Reply #39 on: July 26, 2008, 18:50:18 »

Gentlemen, after allowing the steam to die down a little, this thread is now re-opened.

But, if it degenerates into attacks and anger again, it will be locked permanently.

Thank you.

Happy sailing. Chill out!
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The Captain

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Re: Is it just me.... or...?
« Reply #40 on: July 26, 2008, 18:59:37 »

I am a little staemed, and I think Nathan is too :(.

Anyway, I do think that the shipyard will increase our gaming experience by offering us more ships to operate ;). I just really want new ships ;D!
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John Carter

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Re: Is it just me.... or...?
« Reply #41 on: July 26, 2008, 21:40:48 »

i think vstep should put the basics right first, before adding more stuff.

e.g

ability to moor in MP, currently we can only use anchors.

little boats sinking big ones just by touching them, how daft is that.

ability to use steering when in text speak (i have a wheel & it don't work)

please get the simple things done & then move on to more realistic stuff.

thanks for listening ..... captain jack
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TerryRussell

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Re: Is it just me.... or...?
« Reply #42 on: July 26, 2008, 21:52:10 »

I gues sthat the problem with enabling the controls while you type would mean that when you type "Hi". You will sound the horn and get the information pane. If you see what I mean..  ;D
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The Captain

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Re: Is it just me.... or...?
« Reply #43 on: July 26, 2008, 21:54:18 »

There is already a topic about mooring in MP already I beleive. No? Is it just my imagination from a similar post ;D?

I think adding the ability to moor in multiplayer whould be helpful, but not manditory. Not exactly the "Basics" of the game. But I whould like to see that.

I really do think that ramming a bigger vessel with a smaller one just by a touch needs to be fixed. But, that is why there is the option to have no damage ;).

I don't really find the steering in teamspeak any diffrent than using the mouse to steer with the wheel.

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TerryRussell

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Re: Is it just me.... or...?
« Reply #44 on: July 26, 2008, 21:57:22 »

There some places to moor in some environments, I believe.

Nathan has kindly posted pictures and descriptions previously. I guess the search function should bring them up if you're interetsed.

In a few cases, you can moor against some of the vessels built into the environment (that's know as "rafting").
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John Carter

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Re: Is it just me.... or...?
« Reply #45 on: July 26, 2008, 21:59:44 »

terry

i take your point on that one.

do you think any of the other stuff i mentioned might get fixed either in ss08 or ss10 ?

cheers ......... captain jack
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John Carter

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Re: Is it just me.... or...?
« Reply #46 on: July 26, 2008, 22:01:32 »

nathan

where can i moor in mp m8

captain jack
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The Captain

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Re: Is it just me.... or...?
« Reply #47 on: July 26, 2008, 22:01:56 »

Well, there is plenty of time for patches. There is always the possibility that what you mentioned might be in a patch. Just not a big possibility :(.
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John Carter

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Re: Is it just me.... or...?
« Reply #48 on: July 26, 2008, 22:05:33 »

i forgot to mention, i like big guns too.

someone said virtual sailor has these, is that true ?

captain jack
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The Captain

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Re: Is it just me.... or...?
« Reply #49 on: July 26, 2008, 22:10:28 »

I don't know if virtual sailor has them but SS is not going to build a battleship ;D.
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