Ship Simulator
English forum => Ship Simulator Extremes => Topic started by: MENX on September 17, 2010, 21:41:02
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There are numerouse topics, and 1000´s of pots regarding the current state of SEE.
The circle of blame and somewhat endless discussions between forum members and moderators are building up!
Personally, and hopefully speaking for many, the core thing and basic information i think we deserve are:
When buying the Game from SHIPSIM.COM, there where NO information that the game was unfinnished, full of bug´s, faults, errors and pails of pails with things to fix.
Belive, if VSTEP would have declared the status, the reason, and facts involved, asking for our patient officially, most would settle with that, and as devoted SIPSIM users, we would gladly assist to develop the game! Instead now and noted from endles discussions, there is VSTEP, the puplischers, roumers, non confirmed information, etc, etc. Why wasent this information given eralier. I though i bought a finnished product.
Now moderators make endles efforts to blame publishers, and due dates......
Currently, many buyers throw out the game, and wont return, just by core anger!
(How many have bought the game who will newer visit the forum, and now belive VSTEP are amatures and SSE are rubbish??)
The cards on the table would be enough for me. Then i would wait for months and months for patches, no probs! Just declare the facts! After all, i have spent EUR 40 on a product listed as a finnished game! Now it turnes out as not to be!
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I agree 100%. They could have stated there are some bugs and other issues before you purchased. When I buy a game (or anything for that matter) I expect it to be a finished product.
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I TOTALY AGREE WITH BOTH OF YOU!
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I agree 100%. They could have stated there are some bugs and other issues before you purchased. When I buy a game (or anything for that matter) I expect it to be a finished product.
I personally don't, because of a cupboard full of games that are at least 80% buggy and unfinished in V1.0 and that mostly have had multiple patches to fix problems, sometimes major ones. Then there's the ones I can't even run but that they don't take back cause you can't exchange software after you buy it beacuse they think you've already copied it and 'stolen it' if you do. And then there's the ones that never even got patched, which are quite a few in my collection.
To me, from this experienced with so many games (300+ easily), bugs and patches are a fact of life. And it's not just games. It's even worse with more 'important' software, normally.
Plus, the fact that some features were at first deliberately not included, doesn't make it unfinished. If the initial plan is like that, than that is 'not as complete as the customer would have liked', but not unfinished. Some things are not included yet, that can be regarded as such, but not all of them. Expansions done later are because customers have requested certain things to return. And Vstep listens and complies in many of the cases, so far.
In an ideal world there would have been enough time and less issues left and less unforseen problems that coulnd't be fixed in time or popped up after release, but alas. Didn't work out like that. And that's - unfortunatly - not uncommon. But it's too late to take it back anyway.. and like it or not, you don't put 'this product is faulty' on your webiste. I have had a TV break down after a few weeks, I have had a hard drive die on me way too soon, I have had problems with the new router that I got with my new internet connection, I could go on.. all these products were faulty, buggy if you will, and needed repair, which took weeks and months even, yet none of them were advertised as such either... it's everywhere.. unfortunatly.
Plus, a lot of people regard things as bugs, that are not always truly bugs. But that's a whole other ballgame.
Not saying anything to make it seem okay, I too was disappointed with certain aspects, and I am not trying to say 'the others have it too, so it's not a bad thing that this one has it', I'm just saying... with games, the reality is a bit different than 'nearly each game that comes out is normally perfect'. Far from it.. very far.
At least this developer is doing something about it, and listening to their customers and working very hard to get as much fixed in as short a time as possible, and I assure you, they are doing overtime, all the time.
That's more than I can say for some titles that I ended up using as coasters.. :)
Regards,
Fred
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You can sort it out if you press "Modify" on the top right of your post, then simply take out your comments from the quote box. :thumbs:
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I personally don't, because of a cupboard full of games that are at least 80% buggy and unfinished in V1.0 and that mostly have had multiple patches to fix problems, sometimes major ones. Then there's the ones I can't even run but that they don't take back cause you can't exchange software after you buy it beacuse they think you've already copied it and 'stolen it' if you do. And then there's the ones that never even got patched, which are quite a few in my collection.
To me, from this experienced with so many games (300+ easily), bugs and patches are a fact of life. And it's not just games. It's even worse with more 'important' software, normally.
Plus, the fact that some features were at first deliberately not included, doesn't make it unfinished. If the initial plan is like that, than that is 'not as complete as the customer would have liked', but not unfinished. Some things are not included yet, that can be regarded as such, but not all of them. Expansions done later are because customers have requested certain things to return. And Vstep listens and complies in many of the cases, so far.
In an ideal world there would have been enough time and less issues left and less unforseen problems that coulnd't be fixed in time or popped up after release, but alas. Didn't work out like that. And that's - unfortunatly - not uncommon. But it's too late to take it back anyway.. and like it or not, you don't put 'this product is faulty' on your webiste. I have had a TV break down after a few weeks, I have had a hard drive die on me way too soon, I have had problems with the new router that I got with my new internet connection, I could go on.. all these products were faulty, buggy if you will, and needed repair, which took weeks and months even, yet none of them were advertised as such either... it's everywhere.. unfortunatly.
Plus, a lot of people regard things as bugs, that are not always truly bugs. But that's a whole other ballgame.
Not saying anything to make it seem okay, I too was disappointed with certain aspects, and I am not trying to say 'the others have it too, so it's not a bad thing that this one has it', I'm just saying... with games, the reality is a bit different than 'nearly each game that comes out is normally perfect'. Far from it.. very far.
At least this developer is doing something about it, and listening to their customers and working very hard to get as much fixed in as short a time as possible, and I assure you, they are doing overtime, all the time.
That's more than I can say for some titles that I ended up using as coasters.. :)
Regards,
Fred
Well Fred, you have work hard, I know. V-STEP have work hard. But, V-STEP should made a better plan.
First, the demo not came... To ALL games the demo can BEFORE the resale date. And all changes, all date changes. NEVER that Microsoft should do that. And when the game finally came, the game is uncompleted. The good thing was that I pre-order the download version, otherwise I have to wait one mouth more before the game came.
So, V-STEP, please do a better plan next time!
There are numerouse topics, and 1000´s of pots regarding the current state of SEE.
The circle of blame and somewhat endless discussions between forum members and moderators are building up!
Personally, and hopefully speaking for many, the core thing and basic information i think we deserve are:
When buying the Game from SHIPSIM.COM, there where NO information that the game was unfinnished, full of bug´s, faults, errors and pails of pails with things to fix.
Belive, if VSTEP would have declared the status, the reason, and facts involved, asking for our patient officially, most would settle with that, and as devoted SIPSIM users, we would gladly assist to develop the game! Instead now and noted from endles discussions, there is VSTEP, the puplischers, roumers, non confirmed information, etc, etc. Why wasent this information given eralier. I though i bought a finnished product.
Now moderators make endles efforts to blame publishers, and due dates......
Currently, many buyers throw out the game, and wont return, just by core anger!
(How many have bought the game who will newer visit the forum, and now belive VSTEP are amatures and SSE are rubbish??)
The cards on the table would be enough for me. Then i would wait for months and months for patches, no probs! Just declare the facts! After all, i have spent EUR 40 on a product listed as a finnished game! Now it turnes out as not to be!
And yes, I TOTALLY AGREE!
/Markus
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Hoy,
I think this will not happen again,this was a very rough start from the beginning.
Many have said their feelings against it,since the last week of august,when hell broke loose on the forum.
I think its better now,to look forward.Because on the end everything will be repaired.
Offcource it will take some time.Looking behind is the same as standing still.It will never benefit the game in general.
Marc
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First, the demo not came... To ALL games the demo can BEFORE the resale date.
Simply not true, and a lot of games don't have a demo at all.
And all changes, all date changes. NEVER that Microsoft should do that.
You probably haven't followed those releases then. It's pretty normal too to be honest, but often they don't publicly give out expected dates in an earlier stage, but they do change.. A LOT, in software development land.
The good thing was that I pre-order the download version, otherwise I have to wait one mouth more before the game came.
That makes no sense either, there were people that received their boxed version before the download customers, and you can't hold a developer responsible for the mail services when a delivery is late, and a month, it was not.
Fair criticism is fine, but making up things is just silly. :)
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When buying the Game, there where NO information that the game was unfinnished, full of bug´s, faults, errors and pails of pails with things to fix.
When was the last time you bought a game with a sticker: "Sorry, this game has bugs, faults and errors"..? Get real..
It's like Fred says, many games have problems in the beginning..I salute VStep that they are working hard to fix them..
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Fair criticism is fine, but making up things is just silly. :)
Well, we may feel different but you don't start to criticize me!
/Markus
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I was stating factual information (the stuff in red) to counter your made up facts, and if that is critisizing you, then so be it. Criticism isn't necessarily a bad word, you know. The smiley indicated that the word silly is to be taken lightly.
I see your attitude is still the same though, which is a pity.
But if you make such statements, be prepared to get such a reply. Simple as that. 'Feeling' doesn't come into it. I could feel that the sky is green, that doesn't make it so. I could yell whatever I like and put it in bold print and say it's a fact, but if it's not true, it's not true. Period.
People named Markus97 are ALWAYS wrong. <- like that. Now you try to counter that without critisizing me, cause I really feel it is so. ;)
(that was a joke, in case you don't realise it) :)
Fred
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I was stating factual information (the stuff in red) to counter your made up facts, and if that is critisizing you, then so be it. Criticism isn't necessarily a bad word, you know. The smiley indicated that the word silly is to be taken lightly.
I see your attitude is still the same though, which is a pity.
But if you make such statements, be prepared to get such a reply. Simple as that. 'Feeling' doesn't come into it. I could feel that the sky is green, that doesn't make it so. I could yell whatever I like and put it in bold print and say it's a fact, but if it's not true, it's not true. Period.
People named Markus97 are ALWAYS wrong. <- like that. Now you try to counter that without critisizing me, cause I really feel it is so. ;)
(that was a joke, in case you don't realise it) :)
Fred
;D ;D ;D
I understand, but I'm VERY disappointed at V-STEP. Maybe you know that, but now you all know that!
Some people have actually been waiting for over a month on the game, (and that's UNACCEPTABLE!!!). There is a thread called "The game hasn't come :'(", read it!
/Markus
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I understand that you're disappointed, and you have a right to be!
And yes, there might be some singularities with the delivery, but that can have many reasons. That's not something you can plan ahead for, really. Just.. well. Bad luck, perhaps, is the phrase. :'(
But, that´s why Vstep has offered the download version to those people that are still waiting for their box.
I´ve had things ´go missing´ in the mail too. Who is to say someone didn´t steal it? Or something outside Vstep´s control, like that.
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I understand that you're disappointed, and you have a right to be!
And yes, there might be a singularity with the delivery, but that can have many reasons. That's not something you can plan ahead for, really. Just.. well. Bad luck, perhaps, is the phrase. :'(
Yes, and I hope this never will happen again... V-STEP made good games, but there are VERY bad when they changes things... They don't tell us things!! VERY BAD!! :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:
For example: On 2nd August this year many fans refreshed the main page (included me). Minute after minute and nothing happened. And 1½ hour AFTER the pre-order should start, nobody could enter the site. And 5-7 hours later V-STEP changed the date to 9th August.
How do you explain that, Fred?
/Markus
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Why does if have to be explained? Why is it such a big deal? I mean.. you got your order in, didn't you?
People sitting around refreshing websites the whole time, to be at the very start of a certain event that lasts for weeks on end and gives everyone plenty of opportunity to pre-order, might just be the reason.
All the refreshing and all the impatient visitors might have crashed the server and thus you yourself are the actual reason the date changed! ;D
Not that it is what happened.. but... think about it.. ::) :P
Seriously.. I translated the first announcement about the pre-orders into Dutch, right after Frank announced it on the English boards, and it said the 9th, and not the 2nd. So maybe I'm missing something, but it was the 9th from the get-go, I think.
Maybe again a rumour that took on a life of it's own? It wouldn't be the first.
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Guys, Lets get back on topic to whats wrong with SSE, instead of whats wrong with V-Step and the
postal service :thumbs:
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Why does if have to be explained? Why is it such a big deal? I mean.. you got your order in, didn't you?
People sitting around refreshing websites the whole time, to be at the very start of a certain event that lasts for weeks on end and gives everyone plenty of opportunity to pre-order, might just be the reason.
All the refreshing and all the impatient visitors might have crashed the server and thus you yourself are the actual reason the date changed! ;D
Not that it is what happened.. but... think about it.. ::) :P
Seriously.. I translated the first announcement about the pre-orders into Dutch, right after Frank announced it on the English boards, and it said the 9th, and not the 2nd. So maybe I'm missing something, but it was the 9th from the get-go, I think.
Maybe again a rumour that took on a life of it's own? It wouldn't be the first.
The point is that V-STEP don't tell us fans when things happens during a LONG time, maybe for 4-8 hours. THAT'S my point!
/Markus
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Guys, Lets get back on topic to whats wrong with SSE, instead of whats wrong with V-Step and the
postal service :thumbs:
The game is UNCOMPLETED, that's wrong! Many bugs, some missions crash or have bugs, etc. Read "Bug fix list" if you want to know what's wrong with SSE.
/Markus
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Which hours are you talking about?
The ones where you were waiting, on the 2nd of august, for a pre-order that was never even to start on that day?
The announcement about pre orders was done on the 4th, about the pre order starting on the 9th.
the 2nd of August does not come into it, then. And the announcement wasn't even made, let alone changed.
And surely you don't except Vstep to guess that someone that is misinformed is looking at their website on the wrong day and might be ticked off that nothing is happening? That would be VERY far fetched.
Here's the announcement:
http://80.95.161.114/shipsim/forum/index.php/topic,19481.0.html
And there's nothing else to it. If you spent the 2nd of august waiting for it, then you made a mistake, simple as that. Don't blame them for it then, if you are not informed or take rumours to be true and not wait for the official announcement. That's not their fault, is it? They told the fans loud and clear, on all boards in all languages and on the site and in the newsletter, what would happen and when. So again, your claims are simply untrue.
And yes freeciv, let's! :thumbs:
Fred.
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There's a topic..?
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Yes, and it was a sticky too. And that should normally pop up for people that know how a forum works, as an unread post. And if you're waiting for an announcement, where better to look than in the FAQ & Announcements board, where it could have been found manually.
The newsletter and main website compliment that aswell, as do the many posts where people refer to it. ;D
Maybe come next game, we'll go door to door too. :thumbs:
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Which hours are you talking about?
The ones where you were waiting, on the 2nd of august, for a pre-order that was never even to start on that day?
The announcement about pre orders was done on the 4th, about the pre order starting on the 9th.
the 2nd of August does not come into it, then. And the announcement wasn't even made, let alone changed.
And surely you don't except Vstep to guess that someone that is misinformed is looking at their website on the wrong day and might be ticked off that nothing is happening? That would be VERY far fetched.
Here's the announcement:
http://80.95.161.114/shipsim/forum/index.php/topic,19481.0.html
And there's nothing else to it. If you spent the 2nd of august waiting for it, then you made a mistake, simple as that. Don't blame them for it then, if you are not informed or take rumours to be true and not wait for the official announcement. That's not their fault, is it? They told the fans loud and clear, on all boards in all languages and on the site and in the newsletter, what would happen and when. So again, your claims are simply untrue.
And yes freeciv, let's! :thumbs:
Fred.
The pre-order should start 9 o'clock. This "Message" was Replayed on 13:19:04... So what hours I talking about?
THESE!!!
/Markus
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There's a topic..?
Well I thought there was... :P
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Well I thought there was... :P
Hehe, I and Fred just "talk", nothing more... :blush:
/Markus
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The pre-order should start 9 o'clock. This "Message" was Replayed on 13:19:04... So what hours I talking about?
THIS!!!
/Markus
Who says pre-order should start at 9 o'clock? August 2nd was brought by a member and was never confirmed by VSTEP in an announcement.
Even if the pre-order was scheduled for last year, the release date was set for August 29th. The latter is something that really matters right? ;D
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The pre-order should start 9 o'clock. This "Message" was Replayed on 13:19:04... So what hours I talking about?
THESE!!!
This message.. was not on the same day as the pre-orders..
This message.. was ABOUT the pre orders, posted on the 4th
The pre-oders started on the 9th, not the 4th, nor the 2nd.
13:19 on the 4th has nothing to do with 09:00 on the 9th. You're not making sense and not being consistent in what you say at all.
I think you are not interested in a serious conversation but just need something to keep nagging about and just keep twisting things to throw mud, and as such, I consider this line of conversation ended, cause if you don't acknowledge facts, then there's not much use in me trying to actually present you with them..
Fred
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Who says pre-order should start at 9 o'clock? August 2nd was brought by a member and was never confirmed by VSTEP in an announcement.
Even if the pre-order was scheduled for last year, the release date was set for August 29th. The latter is something that really matters right? ;D
:doh:
There are MANY topic that's say the same thing, the pre-order will start 9:00 am, 9th Aug.
/Markus
(By the way, why are some of my licence keys blocked?? It's license key for Jumbo Javelin for Ship Simulator 2008 and Sigita.)
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This message.. was not on the same day as the pre-orders..
This message.. was ABOUT the pre orders, posted on the 4th
The pre-oders started on the 9th, not the 4th, nor the 2nd.
13:19 on the 4th has nothing to do with 09:00 on the 9th. You're not making sense and not being consistent in what you say at all.
I think you are not interested in a serious conversation but just need something to keep nagging about and just keep twisting things to throw mud, and as such, I consider this line of conversation ended, cause if you don't acknowledge facts, then there's not much use in me trying to actually present you with them..
Fred
Yes, more than 48 h later...
/Markus
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Fred, there is a question in ShipQuiz that might tickle your interest.. ;D
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ugh, you are really not putting two and two together are you, Markus. :doh:
That message you keep referring to for a time frame, that is only an announcement.. about a thing happening on another day, many days later. that has no bearing on anything.. and it's not even 48 hours, it's 5 days.. come on, you're not even really reading any of it, are you?
Ok come on, let's drop this now cause you just don't WANT to actually read it all and put it together, it seems
Any further unsubstantiated comment about this never exsisting problem will be removed cause it's just getting silly now.
Subject closed, if you want to debate about it, you can contact me in private. This is all in the past anyway, if you hadn't been so impatient, maybe you and the rest of the impatient people would not have flooded the server and made things take so much longer than it should have. ;)
And I'll have a look salty :)
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Fred, there is a question in ShipQuiz that might tickle your interest.. ;D
Trying to change the subject saltydog?
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I would think this subject is a dead horse.. ;)
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* Goes a-floggin' *
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A very dead (and beat up) horse indeed. ;D
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;D
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;D
You found this topic in the real world!!! :lol: ;D :lol: :2thumbs:
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@Markus97,
When Vstep delays something,it has a reason.Maybe it is not completely finished,or the result are bad,any reason at all must have a purpose.
All the time in the past has Vstep announced things enough infront,so it was only to look at the forum.
I agree, with this release some thing did not work out like it supose to be.Its also like Fred said,every new game(or anything else)can have problems.In this case Vstep is working very hard to solve the problems.
Many of the problems come sometimes that someone misunderstood or misred some announcement, and that started to lives his own live on the forum afther a while.Because everyone takes it as real.
I think that Vstep is giving info at the right time to us (members and mods)
Or what do you want to hear.How would you like that Vstep announced Vstep in the future.Tell us please.
Marc
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Instead of defending and finding up worthless excuses like some other computer programs also have problems, so could you moderators handling the problem in a smoother way. When the game came out so was another excuse that SS2008 was also not complete when it came out, an excuse which only tells that V-step have not learn from earlier misstakes.
Nearly every thread where some complain about something about SSE, or just bring up some misses, so is a moderator coming and defend why. If persons all the time put them self in a mode of defending, so are them in my eyes at the same time telling that there have been a misstake and they do not have a real answer and the easiest way is to defend. To go in defend mode is a basic way for humans who have come in a situation they do not like and do not know how they should come out of. If a product or a service is missing something and some complain about that, so is a better way to come out of it: explain why and asking for excuse. And that is enough, defending and bad excuses are only making things even worser than what they are, cause this defending and excusing is mostly making persons even more irritated of the problem. Just an advise, this is basic psycologi.
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But when people make up stuff just to throw mud around, don't you think it's only fair that we point out facts to inform them they are talking nonesense? :)
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You guys should really stop throwing mud at this poor beaten up dead horse, it's seen enough!! ;D
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But when people make up stuff just to throw mud around, don't you think it's only fair that we point out facts to inform them they are talking nonesense? :)
Well, I can look at this from two sides, but calling it nonsense is somehow a little bit strong MF..
Would you actually like to be told by a customer support for a company that all your complaining about a product with failure/bugs is nonsense? ;)
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Yeah, sure, there is a lot of problems with SSE, we can agree about that. Now, they say "it will be fixed". So then, let them fix it and learn from it. No matter what, if VSTEP doesn't learn from it...ouch..it will strike back on them later. This scene is an example of what may come if they ignore us:
1 - the activity on this board will fall to a minimum
2 - bad reviews from major game sites on the Internet
3 - low sales
This scene will hopefully never come. Therese a lot of known shut downs of game titles before where people was looking for the first release of a major new game tittle. But suddenly the chief announced "Sorry folks, but we are out of money, the game can not be completed". Remember what happened to EA games (or one of the child companies) in previous years, where some games could not be completed? That's also something that strikes Ubisoft now and then.
Well, that's not the case when it comes to VSTEP, lucky us... So don't try to black-paint this up in another level.
What VSTEP needs to do now is:
1. Correct all bugs and errors
2. Add missing things, for example content that was a part of SS2008
3. Continue developing SS, AND read this board to get new impressions of what people think and want to be added
Point 3 is still a point where VSTEP need to improve, even if I can understand that they sometimes want to tell us "folks, its hard to program all this".
Looking at other games, Crytek released two patches for Crysis when the game came out. It's common to release 1-2 patches for major game titles today to fix issues that they where not prepared for.
Just think about what kind of jungle of hardware they have to put attention to, and also Microsoft that releases another operating system each 1-2 years, and DirectX that they updates into another version.
These are things that game developers need to stay updated on, because the game need to be compatible with the newest hardware, operating system and DirectX.
Even if VSTEP used another type of game engine (not Quest 3D), there would still be bugs, crash to desktop and more.
Well, at the end, VSTEP will need to pay attention to their customers, regular or new, or they will likely end up in the scene described above. So even if there is a case of major problems, bugs, delivery of product to the customer etc, it will hit back on VSTEP if this gets out of hand. For now, it still looks that they have some sort of control.
When it comes to the moderators, they just should be open to any complain or case where a customer need a hand. I've followed this board from the beginning since the birth of the international SS2006-version, and it still looks like the mods do a sweet job. I agree that this defending of VSTEP in any case might look a little bit stupid. Instead of defending they should forward it to the headquarters of VSTEP, and let VSTEP respond.
If VSTEP doesn't respond..uhm..they will likely lose a customer. That is the price they have to pay for not responding to a support request by the customer.
Now, it is easy to generalize all this and say that all the ones that bought SSE is having major problems running the game. That statement is probably false. If it was true it would with no doubt become a fatal situation for VSTEP. Now that's not the case.
To continue beating the "dead horse" a little:
When buying the Game from SHIPSIM.COM, there where NO information that the game was unfinished, full of bug´s, faults, errors and pails of pails with things to fix.
There are barely no game companies that does that. In fact, they receive a lot of issues trough a customer support system, a board like this one, makes an announcement and then starts to develop a patch.
Even if they had a lot of alpha/beta tests before the gold version, there may be bugs and errors that occur after the release. This is not a wanted situation for the game company, but they are probably already prepared for it.
Belive, if VSTEP would have declared the status, the reason, and facts involved, asking for our patient officially, most would settle with that, and as devoted SIPSIM users, we would gladly assist to develop the game! Instead now and noted from endles discussions, there is VSTEP, the puplischers, roumers, non confirmed information, etc, etc. Why wasent this information given eralier. I though i bought a finnished product.
Now moderators make endles efforts to blame publishers, and due dates......
I agree that there are a lot of things that VSTEP could do to cooperate with the users of the game. They could make a demo BEFORE the gold version, or a public beta.
But thanks to the file pirates, this is not an good idea these days, since public beta versions is getting pirated before the final release, something that some game companies know about. Some are giving out beta keys before the final release to get the game beta tested by a lot of users. As an gift they give them the game for free or gives them additional promo content..
When it comes to rumors...uhm...that's one of the main headlines on major game sites. There will always be rumors around new game titles, and rumors are very weak sources, they may even be "made up".
When it comes to release dates, there are games that where delayed as much as one year. VSTEP just delayed this one a couple of months. So VSTEP is not holding a world-wide record in delaying a game ;D
Currently, many buyers throw out the game, and wont return, just by core anger!
(How many have bought the game who will newer visit the forum, and now belive VSTEP are amatures and SSE are rubbish??)
That's usually not official/public stats that game companies shares, its so typical. But it got something to do with marketing. The company will only reveal the number of sales. The best way to find out if a game is good or bad is to read game reviews. The first best thing to do is to not join the first wave of customers that buys the game. Read reviews and make up your mind, because it's only you that can decide if you want to buy it or not, that's not something VSTEP decides for you.
It's a little bit funny that someone attacks the company for buying the product. Make sure that you know everything about the product before you buy it. As I said, reading product reviews is a clever thing to do. But you need to wait for the reviews to come, or else you might buy the cat in the bag :thumbs:
VSTEP is not amateurs, just exploring a new arena of opportunities. So far they are just holding back the good stuff for the professional simulator called Nautis and where Ship Simulator is the little brother. So far they have a long way to explore and go to be able to give us a simulator that ends up at the same level as the flight simulator FSX. There are a lot that still is not yet simulated or added in Ship Simulator like:
- real time weather from the real world
- real world scenery (sail to any harbor/port)
- advanced weather simulation
- wide simulation of bridge instrumentation
- advanced navigation (especially for ships)
- sea charts (ECDIS) with a lot of chart symbols
- sea marks/ IALA A-B system
- sophisticated AI-traffic system
- free roaming with advanced setups and custom scenarios
- multiplayer with a wide range of possibilities and more
- cargo freight/ passenger handling simulation
Let's add 3-4 new versions of Ship Simulator and maybe...maybe some of this is included.
It depends of how far VSTEP can go when it comes to game programming. Even if they now can make professional products for companies, they are far from using the same programming/coding as Microsoft used in FSX, simply because they have yet not discovered that code.
Of course, they could license the simulator engine used in FSX, but in the same time they would have to fix the code or piece of it to make a simulator engine for flight simulation to fit into ship simulation.
Why Microsoft is so good at this compared to VSTEP is because Microsoft started to program the first version of flight simulator in the 80s. We are talking a lot of years where Microsoft improved this code from one year to another. So what VSTEP does now is something that some may call "reinventing the wheel". Yeah, some of this is true, but they will still have to fix that code to fit another type of simulation, ship simulation.
I would gladly tell VSTEP to head for Microsoft and learn from them. It wouldn't hurt would it?
The cards on the table would be enough for me. Then i would wait for months and months for patches, no probs! Just declare the facts! After all, i have spent EUR 40 on a product listed as a finished game! Now it turnes out as not to be!
Well, next time, don't buy the "hype". I did the same mistake, but at least I donated my portion of money for VSTEP. Hopefully as optimistic/pessimistic (I can never chose a side..strangely :D) as I am I want to think that VSTEP spend those 40 EUR to keep this sim on track, on budget and in the oven as long as possible. Despite that some of us may get harsh and throw this game away for a year or some, it will hopefully one day turn into what we want this game to become. So my final word is dream on!.
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When was the last time you bought a game with a sticker: "Sorry, this game has bugs, faults and errors"..? Get real..
It's like Fred says, many games have problems in the beginning..I salute VStep that they are working hard to fix them..
Truly believe that its common sence that a produce sold and put under marketing, are complete and meets the standard! I Play the game for enjoyment, not to freak out over bugs, errors crashes etc.....
If this game is to survive and not be a enthusiast game for a few "over the top devotee´s" and end up like Ports of Call, start acting . . . .
Noted from 99% of all posts on this forum started with feedback/Complaints/questions good or bad is the fact that Moderators and other "+1000 posters" constantly try to bagatelise the problem refering to this and that.
If you are not allowed to state your opinion without getting neglected/mocked and a feeling of "well no one seams to care", this is going to be a most mty forum for a non existing game...
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Well, I can look at this from two sides, but calling it nonsense is somehow a little bit strong MF..
Would you actually like to be told by a customer support for a company that all your complaining about a product with failure/bugs is nonsense? ;)
I was't talking about faillures and/or bugs, mate. Just to clarify, I was talking about certain untrue claims about 'all games always get a demo in advance' or 'vstep did not inform us of the change on the 2nd' (which was never even the day that the pre orders started) and such. Those were just not substantiated. And to keep at it and twist and turn about it, even in the face of factual posts about it, thát is silly. I wasn't talking about obvious bugs, as I agree on that particular point myself awell. :thumbs:
Fred
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But when people make up stuff just to throw mud around, don't you think it's only fair that we point out facts to inform them they are talking nonesense? :)
Yes of cource so should you inform when there is rumors or other false things brought up. And I see that you did not get my point at all, cause if you had, you did not need to defend you self.
What I try to point at is this when a person bring up something he/she do not like in the game and things which worked better in SS 2008, it seems like some moderators will not accept that there is persons who have this opinion, instead some moderators directly trying to convince the person that he/she should like that thing in the game(take the discussion we have about one part of the update for example, instead of accepting that I do not like that part I feel it like you trying to convince me why that is a good part of the update(this is an example)). And I am defenetly not saying that you are bad moderators, I just point on something I think you are not doing so good. So I hope you do not take this as personal critic, this is ment as an advice. Cause as I said in another thread so is a real friend, one who tells me when I have done both good and bad things, a real friend give critcs so I can change my bad ways to good ways(hope you understand what I mean).
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If you are not allowed to state your opinion without getting neglected/mocked and a feeling of "well no one seams to care", this is going to be a most mty forum for a non existing game...
Hoy,
Well,yes you can,however it becomes a very old song now.
Also be sure that maybe several 100s,did it before.We are now aware what the problems are,and they been passed to Vstep,from the first minute the game came on the market.
We as moderators know also that it was not like it should have been,however we stay behind this product.Only than it can start to become better and better.I repeat(because most of the members seems to be forgotten)that the 2008 version had a problem start,many problems showed up in the beginning.It became a very nice and good game on the end.
Regards
Marc
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Yes of cource so should you inform when there is rumors or other false things brought up. And I see that you did not get my point at all, cause if you had, you did not need to defend you self.
I did get your point, but you were speaking in general about the whole team and as such also included me, who was merely righting wrong assumptions.
I think it is you that didn't get my point, to be honest. I wasn't defending anything, I was explaining. Don't worry, I get your meaning perfectly and you are right.
But some things are just as they are. If you don't like certain aspects of an update, or a game.. then it's just the way it is. That's different from bugs or shortcomings, that's just features. And you can't please everyone all the time. Most people asked for certain things, then when those things come, and you don't like it, well, blame those poeople that felt it needed it to get more realism or better control of the game! :)
And stating ones opinion is not the same as defending or forcing you to like it. You are entitled to say 'i think it's not realistic' and we are entitled to say 'well sorry but I personally do think it is', as fellow shipsimmers. We're not posting those thoughts as 'developer spokespersons', that is just us, plyaing the game too, and having our own thoughts about it. That has nothing to do with defending, that's discussing, this is after all a discussion forum. If you feel we're defending, then maybe you feel that you yourself are attacking, not giving feedback. Or is it only a one way street? If so, then I have to dissappoint you, cause that's not how it works.
As for MENX' remark, your opinions are heard, and relayed to vstep, and they act upon them. Many aspects of what became SS08, for example, were born from end-user wishes, suggestions and feedback. how is that neglecting, I wonder? Everything is noted. And where possible and it's within 'the grand plan', it's acted upon. ;)
Regards,
Fred
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I just hate when I have payed so much for a game you think is great, but the game is incompleted. I hope V-STEP fix this, and quick!
/Markus
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Markus,
After everything that has been said, do you really think that was worth posting?
Case closed. The patch will be out very soon, so let us all look forward to that ;)
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Well Markus definitely has a point. It's been almost a month since they released this game full of serious bugs, and they still haven't done anything about it. They keep talking about a patch, but this is the second time it's delayed. No wonder people are losing faith in this company. One thing is for sure, I'll never buy anything from them again.
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Subwolf,
You are failing to realise that although the game was released with a few bugs, VSTEP have already released a patch, and a second patch will be available in roughly a weeks time.
You also have to remember that the issues with Steam versions was not a problem that VSTEP could manage.
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You mods are always trying to find excuses :lol:
Well it's okay, my game is stored away until something happens. Getting angry doesn't help, let's just enjoy the weekend ;)
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Well Markus definitely has a point. It's been almost a month since they released this game full of serious bugs, and they still haven't done anything about it. They keep talking about a patch, but this is the second time it's delayed. No wonder people are losing faith in this company. One thing is for sure, I'll never buy anything from them again.
Not I either.
/Markus
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Markus,
After everything that has been said, do you really think that was worth posting?
Case closed. The patch will be out very soon, so let us all look forward to that ;)
Yes, but I don't think V-STEP fix all bugs, at least 5 to 10... More than that I do not think V-STEP fix, I'm sorry, but my opinion about V-STEP is very bad.
/Markus
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You mods are always trying to find excuses :lol:
Not at all, infact I agree with some of the things said by members here about the game. However, from experience I know VSTEP will sor the game out in time. I find some comments on this forum uncalled for and harsh, but everyone has their own opinion.
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By the way, when comes v 1.2?
/Markus
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One thing is for sure, I'll never buy anything from them again.
Then we are at least three. I have totaly lost my trust to that company.
Today I got the second game I have waited for to get in a long time. First it was SSE and now Codmasters F1 2010. After what I have read here about other games(some have give the impression that almost all games have bugs and needs patches to work), so was I a bit nervouse that this game also should be like SSE. But, I got a big suprice, there is Ai cars in the game, and more to controle than the wheel and throttle and brake, and most fantastic, the game works completly. To make the F1 car possible to drive you have to adjust and tune many many things, each different wheel have 4-5 different things you have to tune, and then the engine and all the other things, together maybe about 30 differnt things just to make the car driveble, and this tunes and adjusment are different to different tracks. And that game has not even the name simulator in it. Compare that with SSE, a five year old child can take a cruiceship from Rotterdam to England with no problem at all, I only had to translate the english for him, after he finished that mission so was he angry on me. He said that he did not like to play the game in "novice mode", he liked to play it in "expert mode", and when I told him that what he played is all what the game include so do I think most persons here can guess his opinion of the game. And that game have the name simulator in the name. My first "tv-game" did I get 1976, it was two lines on each side and a dot which should be the ball, and I think that was more of a tennis simulator than SSE is a shipsimulator.
I started another thread here where I asked about the future plans of SSE, if there is any plans to make this little closer to a simulator game. I understand that no one from Vstep have time to answer me there now when they work with this new updat. If they hold on to what Frank have said, so will my trust and opinion of Vstep as a game creator be even lower than what it is today(that there should not be anything more to controle than the throttle and streering). I understand that some are satisfied with that there is nothing more to do, than steering, but we are also some who expected this game to be little bit more of a simulator.
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Then we are at least three. I have totaly lost my trust to that company.
Today I got the second game I have waited for to get in a long time. First it was SSE and now Codmasters F1 2010. After what I have read here about other games(some have give the impression that almost all games have bugs and needs patches to work), so was I a bit nervouse that this game also should be like SSE. But, I got a big suprice, there is Ai cars in the game, and more to controle than the wheel and throttle and brake, and most fantastic, the game works completly. To make the F1 car possible to drive you have to adjust and tune many many things, each different wheel have 4-5 different things you have to tune, and then the engine and all the other things, together maybe about 30 differnt things just to make the car driveble, and this tunes and adjusment are different to different tracks. And that game has not even the name simulator in it. Compare that with SSE, a five year old child can take a cruiceship from Rotterdam to England with no problem at all, I only had to translate the english for him, after he finished that mission so was he angry on me. He said that he did not like to play the game in "novice mode", he liked to play it in "expert mode", and when I told him that what he played is all what the game include so do I think most persons here can guess his opinion of the game. And that game have the name simulator in the name. My first "tv-game" did I get 1976, it was two lines on each side and a dot which should be the ball, and I think that was more of a tennis simulator than SSE is a shipsimulator.
I started another thread here where I asked about the future plans of SSE, if there is any plans to make this little closer to a simulator game. I understand that no one from Vstep have time to answer me there now when they work with this new updat. If they hold on to what Frank have said, so will my trust and opinion of Vstep as a game creator be even lower than what it is today(that there should not be anything more to controle than the throttle and streering). I understand that some are satisfied with that there is nothing more to do, than steering, but we are also some who expected this game to be little bit more of a simulator.
Finally one person that understand me and my opinions!!! :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs:
/Markus
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Hmm, I actually would give wiqvist a lot more credit than that, to be honest. ::)