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Author Topic: Dissapointed at Ocean Star  (Read 30319 times)

Alex Brown

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Re: Dissapointed at Ocean Star
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2008, 17:51:00 »

I have attempted to capture some vid from the Ocean Star (ignore the jitteryness), as you can see, I am going astern, yet I am speeding up  ???

Will have another attempt later on....

http://videos.ribseadrive.co.uk/test2.wmv

-Alex
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Bottman

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Re: Dissapointed at Ocean Star
« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2008, 17:56:58 »

It's hard to see anything, guess I have to look at it a second time..
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Bottman

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Bottman

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Re: Dissapointed at Ocean Star
« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2008, 18:00:25 »

Still strange as I can see nothing at the controls? How do you change the course without touching them? ???
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Bottman

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Alex Brown

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Re: Dissapointed at Ocean Star
« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2008, 18:18:13 »

That's exactly my problem :)

If I set the controls as you see there, so they are pointed astern, but to stbd, it should be stopping me, but bringing the stern across to stbd as well. About 15 seconds after making that alteration to the pods, you see the ship suddenly makes a turn to port as the stern is brought around to stbd. Also though, watch the speed - it is increasing ahead, despite going astern  ???

Just speaking with one of my mates down the road and he just asked me the same question about the handling of the Ocean Star, wondering if it was something he's doing wrong, but he is experiencing exactly the same as me.

Will maybe try and take some video of the screen later which is less overhead on the cpu (and without flickers) later on or tomorrow.

-Alex
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Bottman

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Re: Dissapointed at Ocean Star
« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2008, 18:28:40 »

Hi, it's pretty simple! I did some trials and the effect results from the very slow turning of the pods! If you stopp engines first, then turning both to 180 degree and wait a few seconds, then full throttle and you will see the vessel slows down as you want it. If you turn the pods whilst the engines are at speed, the vessel may leave the course and/or it accelerates further until the thrusters have reached the other direction. The controls are fasten than the pods and that is realistic! I'll post a short video in a few minutes here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U_sDNabbl4
« Last Edit: March 30, 2008, 19:02:51 by Bottman »
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Bottman

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Cloud

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Re: Dissapointed at Ocean Star
« Reply #30 on: March 30, 2008, 19:37:25 »

Quote
the cons i expect will be ironed out in the near future but for now, i think that azipods are a fantastic new propulsion system

Agreed! ;D  It's also very interesting how the technology has been incorporated into other concepts such as CRP (Contra-Rotating Propellers).

Cheers

Bottman....you're a machine!! :) Still going strong! Glad to see you're still as active as ever on the forum! Great stuff!
« Last Edit: March 30, 2008, 19:51:07 by Cloud »
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AriesDW

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Re: Dissapointed at Ocean Star
« Reply #31 on: March 30, 2008, 21:52:45 »

Also remember when piloting the Star, she is a puller pod design, not a pusher, and the turning is inversed, or it is for me . . .
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-Dave

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ACR

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Re: Dissapointed at Ocean Star
« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2008, 00:30:20 »

and after all the truning rates discussions we should be careful that vstep does not increase turning rates at all ships massivly for no further discussions. the turning rates should be real, nothing is won when we can manouver with the latitude like a sportboat to prevent further discussions.

e.g after the discussion with the PoR the files are now reversed. nice, but now a little to much. a cruise ferry cannot (especially with no stern thrusters) make a 180deg turn like you can do now. initially 1.3 was to low, not its too much
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huang yu po peter

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Re: Dissapointed at Ocean Star
« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2008, 09:47:15 »

Me too, i hate the controls of the ocean star too, is the controls really used on the real ocean star?
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Bottman

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Re: Dissapointed at Ocean Star
« Reply #34 on: March 31, 2008, 15:31:28 »

Well, there is no real "Ocean Star" afloat! She's a model, a mixture out of several cruise liners. But the controls are quite realistic. She may have them within the bridge wings too, but in general they are okay.

@AriesDW: You will see/feel no difference, if the props are pulling (like ABB's Azipod system) or pushing or both (like Schottel-CRP). The direction of the thrust is the same when turning the controls. It's a little bit tricky, that turning the control clockwise (to starboard) will result in a prop thrust to port side and a ship movement to port as well. I have driven a two-podded passenger ferry (see below) several times with a changed system (turning the joystick to port means the vessel steers to port) - but it was quite difficult, when going astern or sideways, because the lever shows into the opposite direction then.. ;) - uuufffff - I like it as it is!  ;D

Regards
« Last Edit: March 31, 2008, 15:43:20 by Bottman »
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Bottman

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ACR

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Re: Dissapointed at Ocean Star
« Reply #35 on: March 31, 2008, 18:13:55 »

Well, there is no real "Ocean Star" afloat! She's a model, a mixture out of several cruise liners. But the controls are quite realistic. She may have them within the bridge wings too, but in general they are okay.


the ocean star seems to be this here , not a mix but exactly.

www.ship-technology.com/projects/carnival_legend/

and by the way, she is also way too fast when you look at the real thing. (i wrote about it in the forum)

like nearly all cruise ferries she should be in the region of 22kt service speed (24 top at trial) . i think buliding it faster would be very ineffective in the manner of required machinery power and fuel consumption since on such a ship the trip as itself is the goal and not as fast as possible crossing times.

the ocean star in the sim easily goes 26kt in calm seas. i cross hard my fingers that this issue will be corrected at the next patch.
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Bottman

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Re: Dissapointed at Ocean Star
« Reply #36 on: March 31, 2008, 18:30:54 »

Okay, the "Ocean Star" is close to the "Carnival Legend", but without the permission to use the original, she used to have some differing details. And you are right, she seems to be too fast, reaching almost the service speed of the "QM2"/"QE2". But to be honest, I like that for any long distance journey.. ;)
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Bottman

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ACR

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Re: Dissapointed at Ocean Star
« Reply #37 on: March 31, 2008, 19:10:32 »

well for me personally its not a problem when ships here are renamed due to lack of permission as long as she looks and behaves like the original vessel.

but regarding to your speed enjoyment i respectfully disagree. we try to enjoy here reality in possible limits, due to your arguments you could also make go her 80kt and enjoy the trip... 

ans simulating the real speed possibilities of the real carnival legend is surely not a law problem like naming her like the real thing.


best regards

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Agent|Austin

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Re: Dissapointed at Ocean Star
« Reply #38 on: March 31, 2008, 19:44:20 »

Okay, the "Ocean Star" is close to the "Carnival Legend", but without the permission to use the original, she used to have some differing details. And you are right, she seems to be too fast, reaching almost the service speed of the "QM2"/"QE2". But to be honest, I like that for any long distance journey.. ;)
I thought it was closer to the Norwegian Star, same paint job. Deck layout is a bit different. There was only 1 pool. I was on the vessel. :)
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Captain Baines

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Re: Dissapointed at Ocean Star
« Reply #39 on: March 31, 2008, 19:59:35 »

For all those who want to know more about that discussion I recommend the February issue of The Naval Architect with a study about azipods and their reliability compared to conventional shaft propulsion.
Which happens to be available on our beloved Interweb. :)
« Last Edit: March 31, 2008, 20:11:57 by Captain Baines »
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ACR

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Re: Dissapointed at Ocean Star
« Reply #40 on: March 31, 2008, 20:01:34 »

I thought it was closer to the Norwegian Star, same paint job. Deck layout is a bit different. There was only 1 pool. I was on the vessel. :)

nope, the norwegian star is pretty different. look at the funnel, the side balcony layout, the front below the bridge.

http://www.kreuzfahrt-hafen.de/kreuzfahrt/norwegian-cruise-line-ncl-kreuzfahrten/norwegian-star/ms-norwegian-star.jpg
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Bottman

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Re: Dissapointed at Ocean Star
« Reply #41 on: March 31, 2008, 20:56:17 »

but regarding to your speed enjoyment i respectfully disagree. we try to enjoy here reality in possible limits, due to your arguments you could also make go her 80kt and enjoy the trip... 
best regards



And hey, it's one of my favorite jobs to tell the developers what's wrong and what's right with the ship dynamics! We couldn't have long distance journeys, so it wasn't my wish to have "tuned" vessels... ;)
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Bottman

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ACR

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Re: Dissapointed at Ocean Star
« Reply #42 on: March 31, 2008, 21:20:36 »

And hey, it's one of my favorite jobs to tell the developers what's wrong and what's right with the ship dynamics! We couldn't have long distance journeys, so it wasn't my wish to have "tuned" vessels... ;)

well, i,m sure you,re the right man for this job! keep on pushing with the topspeeds so we can see results in the next patch!
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AriesDW

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Re: Dissapointed at Ocean Star
« Reply #43 on: March 31, 2008, 22:40:58 »

Well, there is no real "Ocean Star" afloat! She's a model, a mixture out of several cruise liners. But the controls are quite realistic. She may have them within the bridge wings too, but in general they are okay.

@AriesDW: You will see/feel no difference, if the props are pulling (like ABB's Azipod system) or pushing or both (like Schottel-CRP). The direction of the thrust is the same when turning the controls. It's a little bit tricky, that turning the control clockwise (to starboard) will result in a prop thrust to port side and a ship movement to port as well. I have driven a two-podded passenger ferry (see below) several times with a changed system (turning the joystick to port means the vessel steers to port) - but it was quite difficult, when going astern or sideways, because the lever shows into the opposite direction then.. ;) - uuufffff - I like it as it is!  ;D

Regards

I find it interesting you say that, in reality yes, you turn the stick to port, the vessel goes to port, and same for starboard . . .  However, I should of said that I was referring to in game controls . . . I was recently piloting the Star on MP and I found that I kept having to bring the pods to the opposite direction of which I really wanted to turn. I felt this was quite silly. I checked to make sure I had the pods facing the right way and was in fact pressing forward as opposed to forwards, however, the helm reponds in opposites for me. I will look into this . . .

But yes, in reality you are right.

SPEED - Yes, the Ocean Star is faster than her real life counterparts. I have sailed on the Carnival Pride and I consulted heavily in regards to the building of the Ocean Star for SS. I have noticed that her rate of turn is STILL way too fast and her acceleration is dramatically unrealistic, I will, however, complain to make sure this is corrected.
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-Dave

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ACR

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Re: Dissapointed at Ocean Star
« Reply #44 on: March 31, 2008, 22:46:26 »

SPEED - Yes, the Ocean Star is faster than her real life counterparts. I have sailed on the Carnival Pride and I consulted heavily in regards to the building of the Ocean Star for SS. I have noticed that her rate of turn is STILL way too fast and her acceleration is dramatically unrealistic, I will, however, complain to make sure this is corrected.

fantastic news that it will be fixed!
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AriesDW

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Re: Dissapointed at Ocean Star
« Reply #45 on: March 31, 2008, 22:48:19 »

I cannot guarantee it, but I will be talking to the devs about it . . . So let's keep our fingers crossed! I do not like how I can go from 0knots to 7 in almost not time at all. LOL
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-Dave

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Bottman

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Re: Dissapointed at Ocean Star
« Reply #46 on: April 01, 2008, 07:49:30 »

Here is a little sketch, maybe it clears my description from above...
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Bottman

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Cloud

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Re: Dissapointed at Ocean Star
« Reply #47 on: April 02, 2008, 04:28:53 »

Had an opportunity to play around with Ocean Star. My two cents; I found it very satisfying. Only comment would be that the bow thruster needs some work, it was effective at speeds of up to 12kts; which is not realistic at all, would expect to loose effectiveness around 3-5kts tops.

Here's a couple snaps squeezing in at the passenger terminal in Rotterdam.

ps - Does anyone know If there is any way to move those static ships in the editor? Some of them are in really premium spots!  :)
« Last Edit: April 02, 2008, 04:42:54 by Cloud »
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AriesDW

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Re: Dissapointed at Ocean Star
« Reply #48 on: April 02, 2008, 04:56:29 »

Effective diagram there, Bott . . . appreciate it. Apparently there were somethings that I misunderstood, you clarified it a lot, thanks.

RE: Thrusters. Yes, they are VERY unrealistic. I am also having throttle to speed issues. Even with the motors @ 19 RPM the ship breaks 11 knots and continues to accelerate. Also, the pods are responding inproperly when spun to 90/-90 facing. Still a lot of kinks to work out.
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-Dave

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beechjetkid17

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Re: Dissapointed at Ocean Star
« Reply #49 on: April 02, 2008, 05:12:03 »

okay so correct me if im wrong please...the Ocean Star's pods start out in the pushing position. If you turn the joysticks in game to 180o then the pods will be in the pulling position. From there, if you turn the starboard pod 45o to starboard, the stern will go to port thus propelling the ship to starboard. Correct? If you were to then turn the port pod 45o port when in the pulling position, then the ship will go port.

Regards,

Dan
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