How to build my own controller?

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[west^coast]

This is all great on how to build one...Any one want to sell one?.
there is some great work coming out of this. i would be happy to pay some one to do thatwork for me.

[llamalord]

My problem is that I understand How to do it I don't understand where you buy little parts like the trottle knobs and light housings.

[ekto]

One of my frends showed this game to me and I'm seriously considering of buying it. It's a fun game and I like most aspects of it. One thing that would convise me to buy it, would be the possibility to build a control for azimuh (or something like that) trust tug boat...

I've been searching the possibilities to build such controller, and my plan is to build something like the game already has. The controller would rotate about it's vertical axis and would also have throtle leaver on it, like in the game. One vertical potentiometer in the bottom and one horizontal above the turning table.

My only consern is, how can I config the Joystick Controller BU0836 to turn the steering 180 decrees in each direction... I recon that the stearing would need to turn from forward motion (turst down) to bouth direction 180 decrees. More turn might be hard to config and wire.

I think that the throtle control is quote straight fordward. I will post some pics about the 3D-model I'm doing to test the construction. Material will be wood, but if it works, I'm considering of making metal ones. If I get to the metal stage, I will make more than my needs, since there might be some quote for these...

What I would like is, that someone with some kind of "real control" to test how the stearing works with the tug boat. Can he/she config it so, that it's possible to turn the azimuh 360 decrees.

[Mad_Fred]

Hello ekto, and welcome to the forum!

If you calibrate the controller (or really, the BU0836), it will take the total range of the potentiometer as the range for the left and right movement. So it will adapt to what you are sailing and put that range to your controllers range, really, because of the calibration. So you don't need to be able to turn it as far as the real thing, to get it to go to 100% ingame. But it would be nice to have it just like the real thing indeed.

So all you then really need is a potentiometer that can turn 180 degrees in both directions, or indeed one that can rotate 360 degrees in total. Of course you cannot keep on turning them rotation after rotation, so like 720, 1080, like the real thing has (AFAIK), but at least you can use the full range with a realistic angle on your controller. This should work.

But if you use the more common pots with 3/4 of travel, as I am doing with a controller that I am building, you should also be able to use the full range ingame aswell, but it will just amplify your input so that the azimuth unit will reach 180 degrees when you have just turned the pot to it's full 130 (or so) degrees. At least that's what I'd guess would be true for the Bugsier2 aswell, I only tested mine with the ocean star, which is different, but that worked good too.

But If you have two of those pots that can turn through the full 360 degrees, then those can take care of the rotation of the units, whilst your throttle ones could be done by those common ones that only have the 260 degrees of rotation or what is it.. I'm not sure on that value, but about 3/4 rotation indeed.

I hope that made a bit of sense. 

Regards,
Fred

[ekto]

Thanks. That is what I needed to know.

Here are some pics of my design. I have not yet figured how to wire the throtle, so that there would not be a 10cm wire hanging out  But the basics are done:

[TerryRussell]

Hi Fred.

Just a thought, but if you are using it as a variable resistor (i.e. connecting two wires), rather than a potentiometer (connecting three wires), it would be possible to use a ten-turn pot of ten times the required value to achieve the same result. Probably not possible if using it as a potentiometer, though.

If it's worth anything...

[llamalord]

Thats Neat Ekto what program is that?

[LucAtC]

Hello,
There is also the solution of using rotating Sensofoil (polyester pot to be glued), or 360° rotating potentiometers specific for the application (Megatron, for instance), so that you have a no-end rotation, with 360° encoding of the 0 to +5V needed for the BU0836. I am sure RS Components or Conrad or any distributor has them in his catalog?
Regards,
Luc

[ekto]

I red about the sensofoil and I did not get how to use it in this solution. I think I'l use potentiometers. I actually found a potentiometer that is free turning 360 decrees. It's mentioned in the BU0836 information page. Cost is something like £10...

Lets say, that when the potentiometer is at 0 decrees, it gives a low signal. and when it's at 359, it gives a high signal. When you turn it over 359, it goes 0 decrees and the signal goes low again? So basicly it should be possible to rotate it like in real life, continesly?

I'm still sturgling how to wire the throtle.

One possibility is to make some space between the bottom plate and the turning table, but this makes the fastening of the rotaty potentiometer harder...

Second possibility is to make metal rings to the bottom plate and then pusher to the rotary table, but this is quote complex to make and would have interferences. Does anyone know a place that sells these aplications?

Third option is to make the wireing outside using curled telefone wire. This would be the easyest, but less atractive...

[ekto]

I remodelled the controller using the real size of the potentiometer mentioned earlyer. I also simplyfied the design so I can now order precut parts, exept some aspects of the turning table. I'm also changing the material to polycarbonite, since it's the same weight, but can handle the stress. I also added two metal rings between turning table and the stand to decrees friction. The height of the controller is 170 mm and the diameter is 100 mm, so it's quote small.



Trothle is going to get the telefone wire, since everyting else might be to complicated. I'm still looking to raplace the throtle lever with someting already made. There will be two of these, and a connection box. I think I'l start the build next week.

I'f someone sea's something wrong here, now is the time to mention about it.

Thats Neat Ekto what program is that?

The program is KeyCreator:
http://www.kubotekusa.com/

[pigdog]

hi all,
Good to see more people making their own controllers.

I tried making an azimuth controller for use with the B2 but the main problem I found was that the way azimuth controls have been modeled in the game especially for the B2 it won't allow you to turn the 360 or 180 deg required, I haven't tried it recently so unless the azimuth controls have been modified it may be impossible to acheive.

Like I say I've not been on for a while I haven't even turned SS08 on for the past 2 months so I may be missing something but this is what hampered my azimuth build last time.

Cheers


PS: I should also say that to get the controls to turn 180 deg you need precission steering enabled but as soon as you move your control stick from the zero position it will continue to rotate the pod in the game 360 deg until you return it to zero this was my main problem if this has been fixed then I'm going to restart my project.

Pigdog

[TerryRussell]

PS: I should also say that to get the controls to turn 180 deg you need precission steering enabled but as soon as you move your control stick from the zero position it will continue to rotate the pod in the game 360 deg until you return it to zero this was my main problem if this has been fixed then I'm going to restart my project.

Hi Pigdog.

I don't think that's a bug. That's the outcome of using sticky controls and is the way in which that option is supposed to work. You need to use the proportional control method (i.e. prcision set to off), so that the position of your level is mimiced by the pod, thruster or whatever ship control it is linked to. If you use any of the multi-yoke game pads, that's exactly what happens.

Or do I misunderstand what you're syaing?

[pigdog]

Hi,

No it's not a bug but I do think that pod movement could have been implimented much better so it works similar to the voith of the Red Eagle for instance, ie: a more fluid motion for turning the pod 180deg.

With precission steering off you can only acheive a certain amount of port or stbd steering control and then your astern motion (which mimics turning the pod 180deg) puts your steering controls in the wrong position.

I have tried a 360deg pot and experienced the same problems although my patience ran out and I haven't picked it up since but I may try again soon time permitting.

[TerryRussell]

I think that the pods are very different, mechanically. There was an article in Scientific American recently which gave some details, and there ar efurthe rdetails on Pieter Boelen's 84 page report about the Zuiderdam, available on the Creators Forum.

The azipods seem to be immense in comparison with the mechanisms on vessels such as Red Jet, Bugsier2 and Red Eagle, so I guess they would be much more sluggish to turn. I've always found al of them to turn smoothly (is that what you meant by "fluidly"?) on my system.

[llamalord]

The program is KeyCreator:
http://www.kubotekusa.com/

Hmmmm...

Neat, could use that for my model railroad.

[pigdog]

Hi Terry,
No I mean in game when not in precission steering you should have the ability to turn the pods 180 or 360 deg that would enable players using joysticks or controllers they have built to turn the the pods fully round as you can with the red eagles controls.

Sorry about any confusion, I'm not explaining myself vey well but I have tried to build and configure an azimuth controller to work with the B2 and ocean star but the only time it works or moves as it does in the real world is when you are in precission steering but then you have the problem as I mentioned before as soon as you move your control stick your pods contonue to turn and your  engines go full ahead.

When not in precission steering your pods only turn let's say 30deg port or stbd but then you need put your engines astern as soon as you do your pods reverse but in the wrong position.

Having the ability to turn precission steering  and engines on and off  seperately from each other may go someway to resolve this for people using joysticks or home built controllers.

Pigdog

[ekto]

I think you should be able to turn it round and round with free turning potentiometer. This is cause the Ohm value should drop back to start after one revolution. So it's like if you would rotate the controller back to start in non 360 pot.

I have been designing the controller for few days, and now I have a design that does rotate freely. I found this thing called "Slip Ring". http://www.polysci.com/docs/SRA-73683.pdf

With this thing I can get the throtle wires from the rotary table, to the stationary base. Here is the new design:



This looks kind of complex but all the parts are pretty simple. If I'm able to buy the slip ring, I might build the new one, but if not, I'l make the previous...

[ekto]

Here's a litle update about the procress.

I've ordered some hardware (pots and the game controller) and modelled yet another controller. The current situation seems good regarding the controller. The problem is with the game. I have changed notes with a guy who allready has the pots and stuff, and he reports the same what we have seen in this topic. The game doesn't support 360 decree controller.

I'm hoping that someone from the development team would comment about the problem, and when it's going to be solved. When the problem is solved, I can promise that you get one new customer 

The newest design is made so that,

- it can rotate freely 360 decrees unlimited times
- it's very easy to made
- it's inexpensive

My guess for the price is 60 - 80 euros, including the electronics. almoust every part is made from pipes or cylinders. You can order right lengt and diameter peaces from any polycarbonite dealer. All you need to do is drill holes. There is only one 22mm hole that needs a flat bottom, but that can be done differently, if there is no change of getting it done.

There is one part in the controller that need's to be build and tested. If it works, then the whole project rests in the shoulders of the game interface guys. The part is a home-made slip ring. It's made of two different sizes pipes, three ball bearings and O-rings The idea came when I stumbled upon a one article on the web.



Cause ball bearings are metal, they conduct electricity. They have a hole in the center and the inner part can rotate when the outter doesn't. This enables them to work like slip rings. The only thing is the noise it might generate to the signal. After testing we will know.

The cheapest slip ring, with a hole, was something like 100 eur per peace. The one that I used in the last design, turn out to cost 600 euros per peace 

Here is some pics of the new controller:




The total height is ~150mm including the 60mm stick. Diameters is 100mm.

[CaptainLiftpoint]

I don't see the interest in building a throttle quadrant !

the Saitek quadrant is really great, and is really not very expensive ... you can find it at about 40 ou 50 euros !

I'm sure if you buy a real ship control it's far more expensive ... !

http://www.saitekusa.com/usa/prod/quad.htm

Ive been looking how does it work with SS08... does it work ok in reverse and everything??

[pigdog]

hi all,

You are right ekto 360 deg controls will not work in the game, I tried to explain this months ago here:

http://www.shipsim.com/ShipSimForum/index.php/topic,6614.0.html

and a very heated debate about it here:

http://www.shipsim.com/ShipSimForum/index.php/topic,6981.0.html

Have a read through these they go someway into explaining the problems that some people experienced when NH was released regarding pod drivern vessels.

If you had the ability to turn the pod around 360deg using any button, joystick or controller when not in precission steering that would solve the problem.
Azimuth arcade mode is just a waste of time as far as I'm concerned.

pigdog

[ekto]

Thanks Pig Dog for the info.

I have not yet recieved the electronics, but when I do, I'l test it. I'm going to set it up so, that one 360 pot controlls the stearing, and another pot for the thrust. My frend told me that there is a boat named red eagle that this might work. If it works there, but not in the bugsier, the case is clear. It's in te game...

[pigdog]

Hi ekto,

Yes in therory if the 360 pot works with the Red Eagle's steering wheel then we know it is not an impossible thing to fix, I'm pretty sure it will work, but it may not turn continuiously 360deg, but then on a real pod driven vessel you would not spin your pods 360 anyway, the most movement you would have in one full movement is about 180deg thats full ahead direction to full astern, a pretty severe manouvre.

In normal operation you would go from 0deg (midships) - 90deg (both pods facing inwards) to bring the vessel to stop and then adjust for manouvering or turn to the 180deg to go astern.

At the moment none of the steering options in the game for pod vessels allow us to do that with 360 pots, but if we can get a similar steering mode like the red eagles then that would fix it.

pigdog


 

[LucAtC]

Hello Ekto,
To get around the problem of the sliprings, could it not be possible to keep the "throttle" potentiometer in the fixed part, with its axis horizontal, and to rotate it by means of a slider going through the axis of the turntable? The angle being less than 180 deg, no need of rack and pinion, just a rod/crank at the handle side, and the same at the potentiometer side.
No hole can be made through the axis of the direction 360° potentiometer, but this pot could be offset using gears with hollow shafts.
Just guesses, of course,
Regards,
Luc

[ekto]

Hello Ekto,
To get around the problem of the sliprings, could it not be possible to keep the "throttle" potentiometer in the fixed part, with its axis horizontal, and to rotate it by means of a slider going through the axis of the turntable? The angle being less than 180 deg, no need of rack and pinion, just a rod/crank at the handle side, and the same at the potentiometer side.
No hole can be made through the axis of the direction 360° potentiometer, but this pot could be offset using gears with hollow shafts.
Just guesses, of course,
Regards,
Luc

Thanks for the idea, I have look. I have also considered of using HAL-sensor for the rotating sensor, cause it can be off center...

[ekto]

The electonics has arrived 

I was stunned when I noticed how small the pot really is. Here is a pic of it:


In a 19" computer screen it looks a alot bigger. Next few days I'l be doing testing including the ball bearing test. Wish me luck