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Author Topic: Container ship Rena breaking apart  (Read 15511 times)

Subwolf

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Container ship Rena breaking apart
« on: October 13, 2011, 17:46:40 »

A terrible disaster for New Zealand about to happen :(

Ship has 1700 tons of bunker fuel, and attempts to pump it out have failed.
The Fillipino captain has been arrested for bad seamanship, ran the ship aground.

This is one major vessel, something like Vermaas in the game.
That captain can't feel good about himself, he'll have a lot of questions to answer.


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cpt.nordstrand

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Re: Container ship Rena breaking apart
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2011, 17:49:11 »

"it is my first day at work" Homer Simpson  ;D :doh:
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clanky

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Re: Container ship Rena breaking apart
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2011, 20:21:41 »

OK, not sure if this is just down to translation, but he was not arrested for "bad seamanship" he was arrested for  "operating a vessel in a manner causing unnecessary danger or risk".  I know this sounds like splitting hairs, but there is a difference and until the facts are known about the exact circumstances under which she grounded I think it is unfair to discuss whether or not the captain is feeling good about himself.

It seems to be an automatic reaction to arrest the captain of any ship which is involved in any incident these days, I would love to see how the environmental campaigners who have forced the criminalisation of seafarers would cope if the ships weren't there bringing them everything from paper to print their propaganda to ridiculous giant wind turbines that they seem to be so fond of.

If governments really want to tackle the problems of ships being operated in a manner causing unnecessary danger or risk then they need to address the conditions under which seafarers work rather than waiting until it all goes wrong and then arresting someone, in most modern countries lorry drivers would not be allowed to work for half the time that watch-keeping officers on the bridge of a ship are expected to.
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Simos31

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Re: Container ship Rena breaking apart
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2011, 22:29:59 »

I remember an essay I read a long time ago, written by a PhD academic questioning the ethics of the Chernobyl nuclear plant disaster. One of the issues studied in that essay was the increase of the demand in energy relative to the industrial development, relative to the potential hazard of an accident.
So, in 1910, the biggest industrial accident could cause, let's say, 10,000 acres of land to become uninhabitable. Accordingly, in 1940 an equivalent accident could cause 100,000 acres to become uninhabitable, in 1985 the area would increase to over 500,000 acres, in 2011 in a few million acres. The point is that I wouldn't moor my Vermaas on the Dai Ichi dock for a few thousand years from now, Plutonium sucks.
Apart from those major industrial accidents there are the more moderate ones which wouldn't probably cause the land to become totally uninhabitable, although they would very likely spread misery, and economic devastation to the loveliest landscapes of the globe.
Sometimes I stand on the deck of my Vermaas, playing squash table tennis and thinking that this planet cant really stand much more than 7 billion carnivore homos on its surface. And then I keep on playing squash.
60% of the agricultural commodities produced annually are consumed by livestock meant to be slaughtered and then chewed. Calculate for yourself the energy demand that this production requires and then, easily, measure your personal "reason coefficient" as a homo. And then I sail my sweet Vermaas to the next port of call.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2011, 23:17:59 by Simos31 »
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Rbsanford

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Re: Container ship Rena breaking apart
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2011, 23:01:26 »

I remember an essay I read a long time ago, written by a PhD academic questioning the ethics of the Chernobyl nuclear plant disaster. One of the issues studied in that essay was the increase of the demand in energy relative to the industrial development, relative to the potential hazard of an accident.
So, in 1910, the biggest industrial accident could cause, let's say, 10,000 acres of land inhabitable. Accordingly, in 1940 an equivalent accident could cause 100,000 acres to become inhabitable, in 1985 the area would increase to over 500,000 acres, in 2011 in a few million acres. The point is that I wouldn't moor my Vermaas on the Dai Ichi dock for a few thousand years from now, Plutonium sucks.
Apart from those major industrial accidents there are the more moderate ones which wouldn't probably cause the land to become totally inhabitable, although they would very likely spread misery, and economic devastation to the loveliest landscapes of the globe.
Sometimes I stand on the deck of my Vermaas, playing squash table tennis and thinking that this planet cant really stand much more than 7 billion carnivore homos on its surface. And then I keep on playing squash.
60% of the agricultural commodities produced annually are consumed by livestock meant to be slaughtered and then chewed. Calculate for yourself the energy demand that this production requires and then, easily, measure your personal "reason coefficient" as a homo. And then I sail my sweet Vermaas to the next port of call.

okay. squash is really fun.
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vin_sun

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Re: Container ship Rena breaking apart
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2011, 09:19:13 »

It seems to be an automatic reaction to arrest the captain of any ship which is involved in any incident these days, I would love to see how the environmental campaigners who have forced the criminalisation of seafarers would cope if the ships weren't there bringing them everything from paper to print their propaganda to ridiculous giant wind turbines that they seem to be so fond of.

Clanky ..... as a motley group of seafarers I wonder if our voices will ever be heard. What you have said is absolutely right. It does not occur to most ashore that a whole lot of things that surround them are because ships have transported them and it arrives at their doorstep.

I know it will never happen .... but if there is ever a Global Maritime Strike, one can imagine the impact it will have on the world. Look at a scenario ....... container ships not willing to berth or sail out ..... oil tankers and chemical tankers refusing to load .... car carriers fully loaded and anchored .....

It's about time something is done about unjustified criminalisation of seafarers and being 'sitting ducks' for pirates
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Third Mate

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Re: Container ship Rena breaking apart
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2011, 15:08:24 »

Maan, this is really annoying because everyone is handling the situation poorly and that ship won't last much longer. By the looks of it it's tipping over to one side, the containers are putting on more strain and they are falling off. Then the sea is doing it's bit, they are just taking pictures and videos, God this is soo pathethic it's hard to watch. 45000 tons lost just like that. Also this one of the people I knew from High school, check out the photo he posted on his social networking account, not sure if it's real photo, worth looking into.

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« Last Edit: October 14, 2011, 15:12:23 by Third Mate »
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VirtualSkipper

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Re: Container ship Rena breaking apart
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2011, 18:37:58 »

Then the sea is doing it's bit, they are just taking pictures and videos

I also would have taken lots of pictures of that if I were there in a boat. Who doesn't?  :P
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michael_taal

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Re: Container ship Rena breaking apart
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2011, 18:40:59 »

i`m almost sure that it will break in 2 pieces or it will capsize  :(
if you see the pictures on the news you can see a big crack
« Last Edit: October 14, 2011, 18:42:50 by michael_taal »
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Stuart2007

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Re: Container ship Rena breaking apart
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2011, 19:07:13 »

Clanky, every industry has its problems like that- even road transport. Worldwide governments comprised of numb nuts who know only what their marxist text books tell them. They poke their noses into industry from their cushy little office and interfere.

Instead of enforcing existing rules they seem to prefer making lots of new rules- so you spend all your time dealing with pointless piffle whilst the really important stuff is not given the same care it needs.
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Subwolf

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Re: Container ship Rena breaking apart
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2011, 19:18:44 »

The captain wouldn't be arrested if there was a technical malfunction, bad weather or for some reason nothing he could do to avoid running aground. NZ police called it bad seamanship, obviously his navigation failed.

They have many systems to help with safe navigation. But this is what happens when they hire people who shouldn't be on that bridge in the first place. There should be an effective international approval system to make sure they are qualified. In many Asian countries you can get a job as a captain on a cargo vessel without the correct background, only to keep costs down.

I'm not even sure if the owner of the Rena can continue business after this. The ship is lost, so is the cargo. Then the environmental damage, there are already dead birds, fish and so on. The result of a low cost operation  ::)
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vin_sun

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Re: Container ship Rena breaking apart
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2011, 19:38:10 »

@ Subwolf

As long as cheap labour is available, there are many shipowners who will opt for them. It is said that the major chunk of expenses for running a ship is the wages of its officers and crew.

Look at U.S.A ..... even they have outsourced their customer care to Asian countries.

It is a form of exploitation and the risks are always there ....... and sometimes very costly.
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saltydog

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Re: Container ship Rena breaking apart
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2011, 19:47:35 »

"Deliberate course sent Rena to reef"..

http://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/rena-crisis/5789174/Deliberate-course-sent-Rena-to-reef
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dexter7

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Re: Container ship Rena breaking apart
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2011, 20:25:20 »

That's a nasty crack!
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2000

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Re: Container ship Rena breaking apart
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2011, 21:45:46 »

WOW :o
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Rbsanford

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Re: Container ship Rena breaking apart
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2011, 23:06:58 »

yikes.

how on earth did that get there? ???
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VirtualSkipper

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Re: Container ship Rena breaking apart
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2011, 23:08:00 »

yikes.

how on earth did that get there? ???

Got stuck on a reef by an idiotic captain.  ::)
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Rbsanford

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Re: Container ship Rena breaking apart
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2011, 23:09:26 »

i bet he was like, "derrp, wuts that lite blu ting over ther?" *CCRRUUUUUNNNNNCCCHHHH!!* :doh:
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Subwolf

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Re: Container ship Rena breaking apart
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2011, 23:35:08 »

I bet we'll hear something like he was under pressure by the shipowner to reach port in time. Sounds like it, since he pushed the ship to max speed of 18 knots, ignoring the charts and took a shortcut. Why the #"!¤ go all the way around when this course is much faster? Because now there's a reef straight ahead..

In other words, this guy must be stripped of his stripes, and don't hire Fillipino captains ;)
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Simos31

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Re: Container ship Rena breaking apart
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2011, 09:25:58 »

I hate to speculate that similar accidents to "Rena's assasination" may be related to insurance fraud. What's handier for a marine enterprise than to assign the job to a captain who will claim dumb at the court. After all, has only a single pilot been awake before the the incident?
" - Captain we're heading against reef, can't you see?
  - shut up jerk, I know my job better than you"
There's a glut of newly built cargo vessels which spend months anchored at ports in a time where there's a certainty of a global economic slowdown. Or is it just my faulty understanding to blame?
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Stuart2007

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Re: Container ship Rena breaking apart
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2011, 18:31:16 »

In other words, this guy must be stripped of his stripes, and don't hire Fillipino captains ;)

So all Filipino Captains are incompetent are they?

You know them ALL do you?
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clanky

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Re: Container ship Rena breaking apart
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2011, 20:16:42 »

The captain wouldn't be arrested if there was a technical malfunction, bad weather or for some reason nothing he could do to avoid running aground. NZ police called it bad seamanship, obviously his navigation failed.

Your knowledge of maritime law is impressive, may I ask where you studied?

They have many systems to help with safe navigation. But this is what happens when they hire people who shouldn't be on that bridge in the first place. There should be an effective international approval system to make sure they are qualified.

It's called STCW95

In many Asian countries you can get a job as a captain on a cargo vessel without the correct background, only to keep costs down.

The closest thing to what I want to say without getting banned is that this is utter nonsense and that you should verify your facts better before posting garbage like this.

I'm not even sure if the owner of the Rena can continue business after this. The ship is lost, so is the cargo. Then the environmental damage, there are already dead birds, fish and so on. The result of a low cost operation  ::)

You obviously have an in depth knowledge of the operation of the vessel and its costs, I assume you have seen the budget figures?

Got stuck on a reef by an idiotic captain.  ::)

And what exactly qualifies you to judge the competence of a ship's captain, I assume there is a number of completed missions in SSE after which you have enough knowledge to be able to second guess professional seafarers?

i bet he was like, "derrp, wuts that lite blu ting over ther?" *CCRRUUUUUNNNNNCCCHHHH!!* :doh:

No, I would bet that he could actually spell and form a sentence.

In other words, this guy must be stripped of his stripes, and don't hire Fillipino captains ;)

So which countries, in your experience, produce good captains then?

I hate to speculate

Don't then

that similar accidents to "Rena's assasination" may be related to insurance fraud. What's handier for a marine enterprise than to assign the job to a captain who will claim dumb at the court. After all, has only a single pilot been awake before the the incident?
" - Captain we're heading against reef, can't you see?
  - shut up jerk, I know my job better than you"
There's a glut of newly built cargo vessels which spend months anchored at ports in a time where there's a certainty of a global economic slowdown. Or is it just my faulty understanding to blame?

Yes, it is your faulty understanding.

The only person on this forum (as far as I am aware) who is qualified to comment on the competency of a ship's captain is Traddles, you will notice that he has not done so, I would suggest that those who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about follow suit and keep quiet.
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Stuart2007

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Re: Container ship Rena breaking apart
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2011, 21:06:55 »

Well said, Clanky.
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sadsid († 2016)

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Re: Container ship Rena breaking apart
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2011, 21:12:17 »

Hi Clanky
From me  :2thumbs:
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Traddles

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Re: Container ship Rena breaking apart
« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2011, 22:03:46 »

Hi Clanky, at my age I need to save my breath for something useful. :doh: Joining in to this kind of rubbish is quite pointless. Thanks for the kind word though, it's nice to know I am not completely ignored. :evil:

Traddles.
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