Topic: Campaign - Core - 02 Tight Fit (Read 6911 times)

JaneMann · « **on:** May 17, 2011, 16:21:25 »

I try play this mission - but something goes nuts in here. When I enter the harbour - the Ocean Prince (LPG tanker) start running much faster than the tug is able to follow. It runs in 16 knots - and self if tug only in tow in 5-6 knots.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kilroyjan/5730571676/in/photostream (http://www.flickr.com/photos/kilroyjan/5730571676/in/photostream).

It seems like engine works on Ocean Prince, but its no engine speed shown, and speed handle doesnt work.

mvsmith · « **Reply #1 on:** May 17, 2011, 17:33:13 »

Hi Jan,
That mission is discussed here:

http://80.95.161.114/shipsim/forum/index.php/topic,24691.msg327242.html#msg327242 (http://80.95.161.114/shipsim/forum/index.php/topic,24691.msg327242.html#msg327242)

As suggested, you may need to use a second tug on the stern of OP.
Regards,
Marty

Brian Wilson · « **Reply #2 on:** May 18, 2011, 14:28:51 »

I'm convinced that the increased speed of the towed vessel results after shifting from the tug to the towed vessel and back again. I've verified this by experimentation in several different situations. Why this happens is a mystery to me but it seems certain that to prevent this behavior, never shift to the towed vessel.

charybds · « **Reply #3 on:** September 13, 2011, 01:53:20 »

I get the same issues on the container ship in the previous mission .. the simulator does not seem to switch control functions cleanly .. the tanker controls seem frozen but if you use the keys instead of the mouse it's engine sounds change .. there is clearly a major bug with towed vessels and their control functions. I find the larger vessels often seem to randomly acquire high foreward speeds even when they are being towed bacwards .. needs attention

Tinchu · « **Reply #4 on:** September 13, 2011, 08:55:31 »

The problem is the inertia. The towing missions is necessary to do at very low speed. Just the speed exceeds 2 or 2.5 knots you must reduce the tug speed and wait the towed vessel reduce it`s own speed. You must anticipate the situations or the towed vessel will run over you.

Traddles · « **Reply #5 on:** September 13, 2011, 12:05:04 »

This mission CAN be completed well if you remember that you are dealing with a very big DEAD ship. If you keep your speed down to less than 3 knots at all times you can complete it perfectly well. I have just managed it in 1h30m. You can see that Ocean Prince is in her berth in the attached picture. In reality if such a big vessel were to be handled with no main engine power by only one tug, (Yes this could happen) such speeds would be absolutely crucial to success. Also worth remembering that this is a GAS tanker. If she were damaged it could actually blow the whole of Hamburg to bits. So extreme care and softly, softly does it.

Tinchus' advice is excellent. A final point, is your game updated to 1.4.0. build 1086? If not, be sure that it is.
Regards,
Angus.

Sunseekeringo · « **Reply #6 on:** September 13, 2011, 14:34:39 »

Hi Traddles,

in which situation would you assume that this happens in reality, that a vessel without any engine is being towed by just one tug? I have really problems imagine it and thatÂ´s why I donÂ´t like the gut missions because in my eyes they are a bit silly. But I might be wrong.

I just could imagine that in case of engine breakdown in a port where there is no further assistance available. But if you know such situations in common ports like Hamburg or Rotterdam I would be really interested to learn more about this.

Thanks & best regards
Ingo

Traddles · « **Reply #7 on:** September 13, 2011, 16:23:10 »

I merely said it COULD happen. All sorts of unusual things happen where ships are concerned. A good seaman has to know how to cope with all kinds of situations, there is no right or wrong way of doing things only the way which succeeds. In real life you cannot just say:- "I do not like this way to do things, so I will not even try."

sadsid (â€ 2016) · « **Reply #8 on:** September 13, 2011, 16:47:53 »

Hi
Can I also add when you are out there you are alone there is no shore side to
go to Just Captain ,Crew ,ship and and usually bad wx

Sunseekeringo · « **Reply #9 on:** September 14, 2011, 08:59:56 »

Hi,

for sure but you sound as it happens frequent and in typical situations.

I said that I can imagine that it can happen and in which situations but as most missions are like that I was just asking where it really does happen that often. The SSE gives me the feeling that all vessels who are being towed by a tug switch off the engine as soon as the tow is fixed and the captain can relax because then the vessel is completely disabled...and thatÂ´s what I havenÂ´t see in my real life and thatÂ´s why I just was asking about situations where vessels switch off their engine only because they are being towed.

You said "I do not like this way to do things, so I will not even try." - But in the SSE missions the captain says "I do not like helping the tug captain, so I switch my engines off"...is that better? All machines are running well, so why switching them off?

No question that seamen has to know how to cope with such situations. But that was not the question.

best regards

Ingo

sadsid (â€ 2016) · « **Reply #10 on:** September 14, 2011, 09:28:27 »

Hi Sunseekeringo
The answer really is it is up to the mission maker to decide.
In most cases the the choice is to disable the engine so that player has to use tug.
This stops the player from (cheating and using towed vessels engines to go to way point)
In SSE there is the choice in editor to give player help by leaving Steering and/or Bow thrusters
as I say this is choice of mission maker to try to give you what he feels would be a real situation.

Eric

In my own experience if we had power to the engine and could manuver the vessel why would
I use a tug unless ordered to do so by harbour authority's.

Traddles · « **Reply #11 on:** September 14, 2011, 11:42:44 »

Hi Ingo,
Many years ago my father was homeward bound from South Africa to UK when he was requested to go to the aid of a sister ship which had total engine failure in the Atlantic Ocean. He was able to take that ship in tow, using the towed ships anchor cable as towline. The tow then proceeded to Dakar in West Africa where the towed vessel was brought to anchor, with no assistance from tugs. Once the cable was disconnected the weight of the cable on the bottom of the sea brought the towed ship to a stop when she was then able to lower her other anchor and moor safely. That is the kind of situation which can, and does happen. The tow covered 850 nautical miles at an average speed of 6.5 knots. Nothing at all typical about it, but when needed, this sort of thing is done quite often. I should point out that both ships were carrying full cargoes at the time. It is quite surprising to find that ships engines do breakdown very often, sometimes they can be fixed by the ships engineers but frequently this is not the case.
Regards,
Angus.

Stuart2007 · « **Reply #12 on:** September 14, 2011, 17:04:18 »

No one should EVER under-estimate what a good ships crew will achieve when their backs are to the wall (bulkhead!).

I've travelled many nautical miles as a passenger- including trips on cargo ships- and I've seen these people pull off some quite extraordinary achievements when they have to.

It isn't just large ships either, look at some of the deep sea trawlers. I was lucky enough to go to sea in a raging storm on this little boat and when the rudder and prop were caught in the nets- danger brings out resourcefulness.

Sunseekeringo · « **Reply #13 on:** September 15, 2011, 11:14:42 »

Hi,

you are absolutetely right, that it is manageable. And sitting close to our claims department I know how many problems vessels can have and of course a crew must be able to handle this.

I was just wondering if it is common to use one tug and no further propulsion as it is seen in most missions. I have never seen that in a video (unless it is caused by accident) and having always problems to stop a vessel in that size I have problems imagine that it is common that a small tug does it alone...once at 2-3 knots I donÂ´t know how to stop the vessel...

cheers
Ingo

Stuart2007 · « **Reply #14 on:** September 15, 2011, 12:08:39 »

Perhaps this is being done due to limitations of the game. You'd struggle to switch between 2 or more tugs as well as the bridge of the dead ship.

Might be easier on multiplayer.

sadsid (â€ 2016) · « **Reply #15 on:** September 15, 2011, 12:46:52 »

Hi
There is a core mission (Duel Tow)using 2 tugs and Vermass
Eric

*M*A*S* · « **Reply #16 on:** September 16, 2011, 06:43:03 »

As suggested, you may need to use a second tug on the stern of OP.
Regards,
Marty

[/quote]

there's no need for a second tug. using the ships rudder and your thrusters smartly with the assistance of your tug can make the mission easy...

charybds · « **Reply #17 on:** September 17, 2011, 11:19:34 »

Do any of you guys read the op?

the simple fact is that the ship dynamics are not always correct (real ships do NOT randomly acquire 25knot foreward speeds when being towed at a low speed)

The control functions often break when changing vessels (in several multi ship missions).

On the next core mission (2 tugs + Vermaas) I was unable to control the port engines of either tug after switching to the container and back for several minutes

No amount of seamanship is going to fix broken code

Being able to complete missions doesn't mean the simulation is working properly

I worked on Sydney Harbor for over a decade and large vessels were frequently assisted by single tugs .. it is not an unusual situation

Stuart2007 · « **Reply #18 on:** September 17, 2011, 13:11:36 »

I suspect rather than do any work to fix sse, vstep will probably just release a "new" simulator at a price far higher than the quality reflects.

I was such a big fan of vstep in the early days when 06 which was basic, but functional, was being replaced with 08. Sure such a big leap forward would lead to problems but some 3 years on those problems were never cured and now you have sse which has great looking graphics but the bugs I've read about on here are totally unacceptable and I don't know how they can seriously release such poor performing software.

Traddles · « **Reply #19 on:** September 17, 2011, 17:26:22 »

Hi charybds,
Are you trying to say that the only person who reads posts is yourself? I do not understand what you mean by "the op". You must excuse my total ignorance, as I have no idea what is meant by those two words.

When I play the mission "Dual tow" I have no problems at all, therefore I wonder if your machine is not up to playing SSE?
Traddles.

Ballast · « **Reply #20 on:** September 17, 2011, 17:31:46 »

That's forum slang Traddles

"OP" stands for Opening Post, which is created by TS (Topic Starter).

Traddles · « **Reply #21 on:** September 17, 2011, 22:21:22 »

Hi Menno,
Thanks for clearing that up. "op" then actually means "OP"?

Anyway, the point is of course that it is quite pointless reading the last posts of a topic before the first one. So the answer to the question about "op" is;- Of course we do!!!!

Regards,
Angus.

Stuart2007 · « **Reply #22 on:** September 18, 2011, 10:44:46 »

It's OK everyone, Traddles and Ballast have been sniffing marine diesel and thus are making no sense at all despite them trying to clear up what already didn't need clearing up except for the people who were unclear on what it was that didn't need clearing up to begin with. But now clearing up the point that wasn't made in the first place has made the clear point quite murky and is in need of further clearing up before the clear point once again becomes clear.

I hope that is clear.

Now, where's that tub of marine diesel.

sydmichel · « **Reply #23 on:** September 18, 2011, 12:45:51 »

Quote from: Stuart2007 on September 18, 2011, 10:44:46

Now, where's that tub of marine diesel.

Hmm, In my early years it was Furnace Fuel Oil (FFO).

Still, as the OP alluded to it is physically impossible for a towed vessel to overtake a tug unless there is an external force acting apon it (Newton's first law of motion) or the tug slows/changes course. This problem has been with us since day 1 you only need to do a quick search to find other people reporting it and no amount of explanations such as "under-powered computer" or accusations of poor seamanship can explain that away.

Stuart2007 · « **Reply #24 on:** September 18, 2011, 19:32:07 »

What is furnace fuel oil??? Is this another name for heavy marine diesel- or road tar as I've also heard it named?

I did read something about the odd way in which ships learn to fly when coming into close range- something due to the thingamegic and the thingybob not connecting with the whatdayacalit.

Perhaps this is something similar?

Author Topic: Campaign - Core - 02 Tight Fit (Read 6911 times)

mvsmith