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Author Topic: Extremes Titanic  (Read 22465 times)

McGherkin

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Re: Extremes Titanic
« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2010, 22:04:44 »

in a interview they said that the Titanic will be in sse

Content Deleted. :-X
« Last Edit: June 06, 2010, 16:03:00 by McGherkin »
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MVEsperanza

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Re: Extremes Titanic
« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2010, 08:24:43 »

McG where are you getting this from cause i can easily find out just tell us, remember im the SSE messenger i can find lots of out lots of stuff! Right now its hard to believe you i dont want the titanic in SSE so it doesn't matter about the ship i wanna know where your getting this so called "offical" Info, lol  :D :P
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McGherkin

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Re: Extremes Titanic
« Reply #27 on: June 06, 2010, 11:16:11 »

Content Deleted. :-X
« Last Edit: June 06, 2010, 16:02:33 by McGherkin »
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Wave Music

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Re: Extremes Titanic
« Reply #28 on: June 06, 2010, 12:59:36 »

McG where are you getting this from cause i can easily find out just tell us, remember im the SSE messenger i can find lots of out lots of stuff!

The former SSE messenger.  ;)
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MVEsperanza

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Re: Extremes Titanic
« Reply #29 on: June 06, 2010, 18:16:31 »

Not former anymore i still find info! lol
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Mad_Fred

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Re: Extremes Titanic
« Reply #30 on: June 06, 2010, 18:28:43 »

Getting a bit of public knowledge from say, a chat with  some Greenpeace employee, isn't exactly the same as getting some real 'secret' information, about the rest of SSE, though. Anyone with google and an email adress can do what you're doing.

There's only one SSE messenger.

And that's Vstep.  ;)
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MVEsperanza

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Re: Extremes Titanic
« Reply #31 on: June 06, 2010, 18:30:28 »

Fred lol i dont get my info from Greenpeace i get it from well ill PM you since we keeping secrets here
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Mad_Fred

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Re: Extremes Titanic
« Reply #32 on: June 06, 2010, 18:39:12 »

There's nothing secret about what you once were told, or the things you find out nowadays..  haven't seen you write one single thing that isn't already out there somewhere, and no one at Vstep is gonna leak sensitive and as yet undisclosed info to a kid that is not under contractual obligation to keep it a secret. Never gonna happen, so please stop hinting about things that are not true to look cool.

Thanks!
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RMS Gigantic

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Re: Extremes Titanic
« Reply #33 on: June 13, 2010, 06:46:34 »

They shold make an deal with Kyle Hudak! I would pay for this model, not the original SS model!  ::)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_3neWO-ar0
His model is based off of the Titanic's original plans, including the details. This is for sure better than the Ship Simulator Titanic. This Titanic SHOULD be in Ship Simulator Extremes. Kyle is the greatest modeler I know.
What, and Jason DeDonno is not a talented/accurate modeller?

Jason recieves research support from some of the biggest names in Titanic research, in case you were too lazy to read Ship Simulator 2008's credits. These people include Bruce Beveridge and Scott Andrews, as well as the entire Titanic Research and Modelling Association (TRMA). Jason has not only modeled off of Titanic's plans, but even has access to information that the rest of us don't, I am sure! He has even taken the height difference of Titanic's funnels into account! (Next time you're in Ship Simulator with the Titanic, get a side profile view of her: You should discern that the front funnel of the Titanic is the shortest of the four and the third funnel is the tallest; this was done to improve the flow of smoke, and has been included in Jason's model.) Every item that Jason has thus far modeled on Titanic existed on the original ship to the best knowledge of Titanic researchers. Every door and window he includes has been properly modeled, and some of his work has even been included in some of the books I read (Namely, Titanic: The Ship Magnificent, Volumes 1 and 2).

The only errors that I can find in the SS08 model of the Titanic that cannot be attributed to yet-to-be-modeled, debated, or not-implimented-correctly are a missing texture (port side of hawse hole), a texture swap (roof of third funnel deckhouse), and a small find which was discovered well after the game's release (railing pattern on the roof of the second class entrance on the boat deck).

Jason has been working very hard on his model, and shows no signs of stopping. I have even found evidence that he may not intend to stop until he models a complete interior for the Titanic, whether VSTEP includes it i a future SS game or not!

I have also found, upon viewing the video, that Kyle has a far lower LOD in his model than does Jason. Kyle uses textures for windows, etc, whereas Jason actually models them. Kyle even fully omits some items, such as the bases of the wires. (He merely continues the wire to the deck, whereas Jason actually models how the wire connects the the deck or wall.)

(I apologize if the above message came off as overly harsh; I was rather upset with the tone of the quoted posters, as the opening question implies.)
« Last Edit: June 13, 2010, 07:05:53 by RMS Gigantic »
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matt5674

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Re: Extremes Titanic
« Reply #34 on: June 13, 2010, 08:20:21 »

But modeling the windows and all that takes up more memory whereas textures take up even less space. There is one difference for performance differences :thumbs:
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RMS Gigantic

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Re: Extremes Titanic
« Reply #35 on: June 13, 2010, 08:38:20 »

But modeling the windows and all that takes up more memory whereas textures take up even less space. There is one difference for performance differences :thumbs:
The Kyle model has a far lower amount of detail. For instance, he refused to model the connections from the rigging wires of ths ship to the deck, unlike Jason, who did so with stunning detail, as viewable in the image below.



Among several other achievements, the Ship Simulator series has the noteworthiness of posessing the most accurate and detailed 3D model of the RMS Titanic currently within the public domain. Personally, I find that an impressive title, and not one worthy of losing.
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Mad_Fred

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Re: Extremes Titanic
« Reply #36 on: June 13, 2010, 08:53:02 »

Well, you do realise that a good modeler can just easily make such details do you not?

But, the ship also needs to function in a game. And since Kyle has made a lot of the interior too, you can't have it all on exterior aswell, there is a limit. Modeling is one, making it fit for a game is another. Some people like a detailed interior better than some cable connections, perhaps.

Having actually played with both models in both games, I can see why some details are different, but that has nothing to do with the modeler at all. Kyle is very very talented, and so is Jason. It's not a matter of not being able to do something.

And a little less bumkissing would look much better IMHO. He's a man, not a God, for Pete's sake.  ::)  ;D

Fred
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RMS Gigantic

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Re: Extremes Titanic
« Reply #37 on: June 13, 2010, 09:07:04 »

Hm... are you a God, Fred? ;D
« Last Edit: June 13, 2010, 09:09:35 by RMS Gigantic »
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matt5674

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Re: Extremes Titanic
« Reply #38 on: June 13, 2010, 09:15:11 »

How about a solution, combine the two Titanics for an amazingly stunning model. And both will get credit, the model will have the stuff both of them don't have from the other, and Titanic will look like something out of a movie, oh wait, there are movies that look like what the two Titanics look like together :doh: :lol:
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RMS Gigantic

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Re: Extremes Titanic
« Reply #39 on: June 13, 2010, 09:29:32 »

How about a solution, combine the two Titanics for an amazingly stunning model. And both will get credit, the model will have the stuff both of them don't have from the other, and Titanic will look like something out of a movie, oh wait, there are movies that look like what the two Titanics look like together :doh: :lol:
The result of something like that would look strange, I think, seeing as you are combinging someone who uses textures for their details with someone who uses models :P
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knocks

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Re: Extremes Titanic
« Reply #40 on: June 13, 2010, 09:52:07 »

Its one thing to make an accurate model for still renders and animation, but for use in a game you need to keep things in perspective, or you will end up with a ship stuck on a flat ocean.

Give me well textured models that utilize the use of displacement / parallax mapping etc any day. Yes engine features like occlusion culling give an artist more polygons to play with, but at the end of the day it all comes down to performance.

Full steam ahead at 30 fps please.
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Nathan|C

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Re: Extremes Titanic
« Reply #41 on: June 13, 2010, 09:57:49 »

At least Huddizle's Titanic doesn't have an interior made of clay ::)
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IRI5HJ4CK

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Re: Extremes Titanic
« Reply #42 on: June 13, 2010, 10:10:04 »

The result of something like that would look strange, I think, seeing as you are combinging someone who uses textures for their details with someone who uses models :P

Maybe you should stop taking the mick out of Kyles model and give it a go yourself (ie modelling) - and reply when you've finished your own model, before you start trampling on others work, and making little narrow minded comments about his model simply because you're kissing Jasons rear end and cannot see any good in other peoples models of Titanic for that reason.

I will not comment on Jasons model, unlike yourself, because I don't see fit to make comments about other peoples models that aren't needed. Nor will I say who's model is better. But let me put it this way, after playing with Kyles model on Virtual Sailor, there are things I have picked up (and i'm no Titanic expert, unlike yourself right? ;)) that are quite obviously "there" on Kyles model, that I don't see on Jasons model. Probably because of polys, but either way - you can't simply pick on one thing such as the rigging (Which as the example you gave) and overlook everything else - which you appear to do too often.

Your exmaple about the rigging. To put it bluntly; nobody is inerested. So stop bashing other peoples models. Because nobody is interested in what you have to say if that is all you do.

Jack.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2010, 10:17:25 by IRI5HJ4CK »
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Kind Regards,
Jack.

JHB

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Re: Extremes Titanic
« Reply #43 on: June 13, 2010, 10:13:30 »

One thing that everyone of you has completely forgotten is that Kyle's Titanic was made for Virtual Sailor.
And, no, Virtual Sailor isn't based on the same game engine as Ship Simulator.
So, comparing those two is like comparing an apple with a banana.

I bet Kyle would model it all in 3D if the Virtual Sailor was using a sophisticated CryEngine, but Virtual Sailor isn't programmed or designed to highly visualize a ship where every detail is designed in 3D. That's because there is technically no LOD-features implemented in Virtual Sailor that decides how a very accurate and detailed ship model is rendered. So that is a technical complexity that forced Kyle to make his Titanic that way.
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RMS Gigantic

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Re: Extremes Titanic
« Reply #44 on: June 13, 2010, 10:30:14 »

Kyle's version is mainly composed of textures because VS has a tight model limit, while Jason's version is mainly composed of models because SS has a tight texture limit! :doh:
« Last Edit: June 13, 2010, 10:31:46 by RMS Gigantic »
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JHB

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Re: Extremes Titanic
« Reply #45 on: June 13, 2010, 13:48:55 »

Kyle's version is mainly composed of textures because VS has a tight model limit, while Jason's version is mainly composed of models because SS has a tight texture limit! :doh:

Exactly! ;D
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Hudizzle

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Re: Extremes Titanic
« Reply #46 on: June 26, 2010, 12:30:54 »

Hey everybody, Kyle here. Yes I still peruse these forums, and I happened across this thread.. Specifically the discussion about my model.. and even more specifically, RMS Gigantic's comments, and I thought I should respond...

Now JHB has already put very well the reason why my model is "lower detail", but I just want to reiterate that...

I did not model, in 3D, every single detail that was possible on my Titanic, not because I was lazy, or "refused" to, as if I had somehow stomped my feet in anger over the prospect, or because I couldn't model... But because I simply had no choice. Virtual Sailor, as JHB said, is not a game for extremely high poly models, however, it can handle a lot of high resolution textures. This is why I skipped actually modeling several details, it's why the railings, davits, ladders, windows, etc. etc. are made of transparent textures instead of actually being modeled. It's to keep the poly count low, because it absolutely MUST be! If I had modeled every single detail in 3D, including the addition of details I left out, such as those rigging brackets, the thing would be unusable in Virtual Sailor! It would crash every single computer it came across.
On the other hand, Ship Simulator can handle high poly models, but it's no good when it comes to a large number of high resolution textures. Along with the fact that my ship was made with VS only in mind, in terms of modeling methods, and also the fact that my model has so many textures, it would make it impossible to import an use in Ship Simulator. For my exterior model alone, that has 335 textures, many of them beyond the maximum size that Ship Sim may allow... The interior alone has another 311 textures, also many of them large in size.. Then another 80 or so textures for the bridge, also many of which are sizable. That alone would make it impossible to work in Ship Sim (not trying to put down the Ship Sim's engine here, it's just that as far as I understand, it's sort of limited when it comes to textures). On top of that, my model would need HUGE optimizations in terms of modeling, many details would need to be completely remodeled... Not to mention the addition of collision models... It would simply be a mess. If I wanted to model a Titanic for Ship Simulator, I would have to start completely over again, building an entirely new Titanic model from the ground up, this time with Ship Sim in mind from the start. And, RMS Gigantic, if I were to build such a model, or just a model in general in which I need not worry much about poly count (If it was for Crysis, for instance), I would most certainly fully model all the details and more that you seem to miss so dearly and complain about on my Virtual Sailor model. I would not refuse to model any details, and I would be fully capable of modeling them.

On that note, Gigantic, I have seen your comments regarding my Titanic project from earlier on.. From a video of it in Crysis on Youtube, to two different threads here on Ship Sim, and you have went out of your way to put down my work and my model, desperately pointing out the most miniscule flaws... I recall one comment where you complained that I had not yet placed morse lamps on my model.. Surely you must have known it was not a finished model, which the finished version has now.. And you used that as some sort of excuse to put down my model... Yet you didn't seem to give the same consideration to Jason's model which, at least the version that's in SS08, misses many details, and is far less complete than mine (final version) in terms of actual details represented (whether those are 3D, partial, or 2D textures).. Then you go on to heap infinite praise upon Jason's model, and seemingly having very little to say that was positive regarding mine (not that you're obligated to do so). Perhaps you made those comments without knowing why I modeled it the way I did, and if so, I certainly hope you understand now...

And on the note of accuracy, I will certainly admit that my model is not perfect. There are a few details I surely missed somewhere. However, when I built it, I too used Titanic plans, the plans of Peter Davies-Garner, and the G/A plans. I probably used many of the same plans Jason did, and I also had the two volumes of Titanic: The Ship Magnificent to help me along greatly. I did, however, build mine independently and did not have any direct communications with those Titans of Titanic research at any point in my project. Of course I started my Titanic when I still had a LOT to learn about modeling, and over the year and a half I built my Titanic, I did learn a LOT. This video here shows it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_3neWO-ar0
As a result of that bad start, though, my model's accuracy in terms of measurement is indeed slightly off in some areas, whilst Jason's may be more accurate in that sense, but it's close, and, though I may be biased obviously, I believe mine to be one of the most detailed and accurate Titanic models currently freely/publicly available, along with Jason's, and that distinction doesn't seem to apply to very many virtual models of Titanic.

Titanic video 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZhTWsS8S7U

Titanic video 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWHEc6k0Gg0&annotation_id=annotation_752301&feature=iv

Interior video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vesjq4EX0Mk&annotation_id=annotation_980649&feature=iv

My final Titanic model converted for Crysis (this looks quite awesome): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KSrzKFhwDE























Argue with that if you'd like, but I challenge you to watch the videos and see the screenshots above (the latter of which are just stills from the video of my model in Crysis), and then come back without refusing to give any credence to it because of something like "Oh, the color is slightly off" or "He forgot to add a bracket" or "He placed this part two centimeters off center". You can complain about those things if you'd like, but I don't think for a moment that that negates all aspects of the model. And surely Jason's model has errors, too. Just because he also had Titanic plans and communicated with Titanic researchers does not mean his model is not also infallible. So to reiterate another point... Stop kissing Jason's stern and find something decent to say about other Titanic models for once, instead of eagerly pointing out the flaws and missing parts of those other models (especially if it's an unfinished model), then not doing the same for Jason's, and instead acting as if it's the most perfect model ever. Sure you'll say every now and then that his model is also incomplete, but you see the same issues on my model, then use that to completely discredit it.

I probably come across as quite offended or.. Well, slightly angry here.. And that's because I am, or at least was. I can only assume you took JHB's and my comments into consideration. One last thing about your comments... This is from another thread on this forum about the Crysis Titanic, which was an early BETA of my Titanic, many months ago...

"The colors in that one are too bright, the masts look to lean back too far, and it's missing morse lamps.

3 reasons the SS model is better off the top of my head within the first minute of video."

You made that same comment on Youtube for the related video. You had not one thing positive to say, it seemed, just nitpicking. Then you said this on that Crysis thread:

"Sorry, it's that I get offended when someone criticizes Mr. De Donno's hard work."

I think the comment speaks for itself. I'm not an easy person to offend, but I'm certainly offended that you would say something like that whilst doing that very thing to my hard work, and it was very hard work indeed. So have some consideration, and be fair for once!

Now, a bit more on the subject...
Unless Jason has done a huge amount of work and really pulled some big time work off, and if the good folks at V-Step really really want Titanic in the new game and feel that the world will wobble off of its axis and hurtle into the Sun if the Titanic is not in the game, I don't see it likely happening... Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know what's going on with that situation. One thing is for sure, though... My model certainly won't be showing up in this game, it would, as I said, simply be impossible. It was made with VS in mind. I'd have to build a whole new model with SS in mind... But don't expect that to happen, either... I would go insane if I had to model Titanic all over again. I'll have to let quite a bit of time go by before considering it.

On a final note, about those screen shots and Crysis video... The video, and the conversion to Crysis, was done by a Youtube user named "Graysnake2834"... Also keep in mind that you can't actually sail the ship in Crysis, it's just a prop or scene in the game, pretty much.

That's all for now.
Cheers.

Kyle.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2010, 20:25:13 by Hudizzle »
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Matthew Brown

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Re: Extremes Titanic
« Reply #47 on: June 26, 2010, 14:34:37 »

Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_3neWO-ar0

Wowww, since your here Kyle, let me congratulate you sir on a brilliant model  :o  It's breathtaking! Even the interiors! I can't believe my eyes!  ;D
I woud buy VS just for that!  :2thumbs:
I never knew there was always a second model of Titanic!
Many Kind Regards

Matthew Brown
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RMS Gigantic

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Re: Extremes Titanic
« Reply #48 on: June 27, 2010, 20:53:27 »

Yeah, Kyle, my apologies for my rude comments :doh: I had allowed emotions to get out of control; I was responding to a poster who seemed to be insulting the existing modeller for Ship Sim, so I got back by... insulting you? Man, that was a dumb move in hindsight.

I had identified the difference in a more recent post in this topic:
Kyle's version is mainly composed of textures because VS has a tight model limit, while Jason's version is mainly composed of models because SS has a tight texture limit! :doh:
The models are both of high quality, just done in different stlyes due to the limits imposed on both of them by their respective game engines.

And you're very right about that distinction being very rare ;) I have played several games, and used several other software, and they always add things to her, scramble things, or have a very low LOD, or, more frequently, combine those!

Oh, and a note to help you slightly improve your model: There were no lights on the Titanic that would so much as indirectly shine on the funnels.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2010, 21:00:05 by RMS Gigantic »
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