Something For Our British Friends...."Union Jack"

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[Captain Davies]

Great work on the ship. And as said before a Gent for being worried that it would cause offence.

Just one point the flag of the United Kingdom is called the Union Flag not the Union Jack. It is known as the Union Jack only when it flies on the Jack Staff on the bow of one of HM Ships. I may be wrong with my next statement but I think the term Britain does not include Northern Ireland (if I am wrong I'm sure someone will tell me) hence why we often hear the term Great Britain & Northern Ireland.

As most of you will know there is no representation of Wales on the Union Flag, as Wales has not been a “Country” since I think about the year 1200, it was made a Principality and was "annexed" to England at this time. Scotland & Ireland joined England to be one Country in acts of Union. The Flag is the red cross of St George (England), the diagonal red cross of St Patrick (Ireland) and the white diagonal cross and blue from the cross of St Andrew (Scotland). There is a debate going on at present in the Westminster Parliament with regard to the Union Flag and should there be some part of Welsh flag added to it.

So endth the history lesson and no offence meant! 

Actually Northern Ireland is included, the flag of St Patrick is the flag for Northern Ireland, the flag of Ireland (as in Republic of Ireland) is the Green White and Orange/Yellow one.  Furthermore, Wales has ceased to be an annex of England and has now been reinstated as a country.  The national anthem is officially Land of My Fathers and we are regarded as a nation in many different areas, including sporting events.  We have a devolved national assembly and proposals for a parliament.  This could not be the case if we were still an annex.

[Locutus-Mouse]

If you look back at what I said with regard to Northern Ireland. I have said the cross of St Patrick is in the Union Flag. Wales is still a Principality, hence the Prince of Wales. We do not have a Prince of Scotland or indeed a Prince of Northern Ireland. Scotland has its own Parliament already and has in fact made its own Laws for hundreds of years; we have a different schooling system than England, Wales & Northern Ireland, different alcohol licensing laws etc. We have our own National anthem “Flower of Scotland” and I for someone born in the area of the United Kingdom commonly referred to as England and who lives in the part referred to as Scotland have always be miffed by the treatment of the Westminster Parliament toward Wales.

Anyway – Great Britain is England, Wales & Scotland: The United Kingdom is Great Britain & Northern Ireland and to further confuse matters the British Isles are the land masses commonly called England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland & the Republic of Ireland. But within this there are only two countries due to Parliamentary Acts and they are the Republic of Ireland as it has never been part of the UK and the UK itself. If an Englishman, Welshman, Scotsman & a Northern Irishman looked in side their passport they will see that their Nationality is British regardless of what they wrote on the application form.

It still does not change the fact that the flag of the UK is called the Union Flag….Oh has any noticed that the Fast Ferry in SS08 is flying the Union Flag from her stern and not the Red Ensign? Naughty Vstep, rookie mistake.

To close we are now way off topic and this is not really the place to discuss this type of thing anyway. If anyone would like to continue please PM me

I now pass the soap box on to you......

[Captain Davies]

My point is that Wales is no longer an annex of England and we too have our own national anthem.  We may still be a principality but England still has a Queen as head of state, but she utterly powerless compared to the prime minister, and only really there for decoration, like the Prince of Wales.  Prince Phillip is the Duke of Edinburgh but if he attempted to exert any Duke like authority over the city I'm sure the local authorities would tell him where to go.

My point is still valid I feel, Wales is more than eligible for represntation on the flag, and until that happens the flag cannot be considered a true rperesentaion of the united kingdom.

Furthermore I find it a bit rich that you would make an (off topic) point and then tell people that it would be best not to continue.  It just doesn't seem very proper.

I agree with the bit about the incorrect flag on the Fast Ferry, big doo doo by Vstep there.

[Locutus-Mouse]

If anyone is interested, I'm personally facinated by all this kind of stuff

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_flag

It kind of proves what I was saying, and I give a small quote "Wales had no explicit recognition in the Union Flag because Wales, having been annexed by Edward I of England in 1282 and following the Laws in Wales Acts 1535–1542, was legally part of the Kingdom of England and was therefore represented by the flag of England.

The Laws in Wales Acts 1535–1542 (Y Deddfau Uno 1535 a 1542) were a series of parliamentary measures by which the legal system of Wales was annexed to England and the norms of English administration introduced in order to create a single state and a single legal jurisdiction, which is frequently referred to as England and Wales. The Acts refer in particular to two Acts of Parliament passed in 1536 and 1543 during the reign of King Henry VIII of England, who came from the Welsh Tudor dynasty.

I don’t think these Acts have been repealed to date

Another couple of ionteresting sites.

http://www.know-britain.com/general/union_jack.html

http://www.jdawiseman.com/papers/union-jack/union-jack.html

http://www.royal.gov.uk/OutPut/Page5017.asp



Anyway, heres one for you Captain Davies, the attachmentments could be our new National Flag 

[Captain Davies]

LOL, I like the flags! 

I still stand by m what I said, Wales may once have been an annex of England but it isn't anymore.  The proof is in that extract, notic the use of words like 'had' and 'was'.  It also says "frequently referred to as England and Wales" rather than just england because if Wales was still annexed to England then that's what it would be called, just England. 

Maps used to have the word 'England' stretching right across over Wales and England, they don't anymore.  Now there are borders and the word 'Wales' over Wales and 'England' over England.  The Acts of union haven't been repealled so that we all remain as the UK, but the laws stating that Wales is a part of England has.

We have a capital city, a devolved assembly and a national anthem.  We couldn't possibly have any of these if we were a part of England.

[Locutus-Mouse]

Shall we agree to differ my Freind? 

Thanks for the debate, I really enjoyed it (I'm still correct!  )

[Stuart2007]

Glad you've called a truce between your two countries/regions.

In fact the UN holds the definitive list of internationally recognised countries. Great Britain is, although the component parts are not (whether this will be true by the time Unc Gordon leaves no 10 is another question).

Are you sure that the Republic of Ireland has never been part of Britain? Are you absolutely sure?

Try this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_of_Great_Britain_and_Ireland

Although Wales is a region of Great Britain, with limited autonomy, it was once argued that since it was a Welsh King that landed on the English throne that Wales in actual fact should be the principal country. Look it up, Capt D.

Also- do you know WHY the union flag has the St Patricks Cross at the bottom of the St Andrews Saltire? Again, look it up. There is a very good reason for it and why it is such an insult to fly the Union flag upside down.

Stu

[Locutus-Mouse]

As I say fascinating subject is it not.

Regardless of my previous posts, I do actually agree with Capt. D. Wales has been treated as a county of England and has not been allowed to have a voice for long enough. As I have said before I was Born in England but now live in Scotland (since I was 11 years old and that was not yesterday!) and was very happy that our Parliament (Holyrood, Edinburgh) which was adjourned on 25 March 1707, was reconvened on 12 May 1999, were as Wales only got an Assembly. It is about time Wales had its own Parliament as it’s just the same as Scotland and why should we be ran by people hundreds of miles away from us who have no idea of our way of life and the problems we have with, for example, transport. For me to drive the 132 miles (213km) from my home to Edinburgh will take me at least 2 hours 50, that’s on a good day, height of the summer with all the tourists about it has taken 3.5 hours.

I feel that Wales & Scotland should become ‘Independent States within the UK’ like the Channel Isles and have no members of Parliament in Westminster and left to run our own Countries. Full Independence would be a little more difficult as the two Countries don’t have the industry to support Independence. The armed forces would also be a problem.

As for our national flag, a real question, how would we include the Wales on the Union Flag? If we add the Red Dragon then it could never be flown upside down. I have also seen, but can’t find just now, the Union Flag with the Welsh Green instead of the present white, looks odd but many Countries have changed their flag, South Africa, Hong Kong are just two examples.

And, Stu, thank you for letting the thread continue so of topic.

For a real laugh have a look at this - http://www.anorak.co.uk/twitterings/178091.html

[Locutus-Mouse]

Even better......

[Stuart2007]

why should we be ran by people hundreds of miles away from us who have no idea of our way of life and the problems we have with, for example, transport.

You mean like all the MPs from Scotland, elected by Scottish residents to speak for them at Westminster? In theory they should all be Scots, elected to represent the area in which they live.

Out of my whole family, I am the only one who is truly English, the rest being Scottish... And I really get fed up with hearing "It's England for the English and Scotland for the English too.... It's a known fact". I am not aware of such a fact. The point being that our greatest achievements have been when we have worked together in a common purpose. Surely you can't still hold the above opinion when everything in Scotland seems to be free and down here it isn't. (education, health etc).

I am perhaps fortunate to have seen all areas of Britain and many other countries; narrow perceptions are dangerous indeed. As you say, fascinating subject.

Stu

[Stuart2007]

Even better......

Blaphemy to the flag showing Uncle Gord on there... DO NOT give him ideas- not even Stalin had his head on a flag.

Stu

[Locutus-Mouse]

You mean like all the MPs from Scotland, elected by Scottish residents to speak for them at Westminster? In theory they should all be Scots, elected to represent the area in which they live.

No I mean English MPs saying what happens in Scotland. I actually live in the same village as our Westminster MP, he can vote on matters that concern England and to a degree Wales. I my opinion with the Scottish Parliament and the Welsh Assembly the MPs that represent these Countries should not have a seat in Westminster. The leader of the Scottish National Party is a Westminster MP. If he is so pro Scotland why does he not stand to be voted in as a MSP (Member of Scottish Parliament) and"Uncle Gordon" our 'beloved' Prime Minister has a Scottish constituency!

Blasphemy to the flag showing Uncle Gord on there... DO NOT give him ideas- not even Stalin had his head on a flag

This actually came from Japan! Does this say something about how other Countries look at ours?

[Captain Davies]

I shall of course agree to differ.   Cough...you're wrong...cough. 

I am glad you agree that Wales has not exactly been treated fairly by Parliament, Locutus-Mouse, and it is ridiculous that what happens in Wales is often dictated by a mostly English group of MPs.  I am largely in favour of devolution (to an extent) and I know how you feel about it Stu after the debate we had a while ago.  I was not such a large supporter of devolution but that has changed since those clowns in Westminster decided to take £342 million of funding that should have been spent in Wales to pay for the the blo... bleemin Olympics.  If they couldn't afford it they shouldn't have asked for it.   

Something for you here Stu, regarding Gordon Brown; a joke said around Whitehall.   "What's the difference between Gordon Brown and Joseph Stalin?  One is a ruthless dictator who murders his opponents and rules by absolute terror; the other was leader of the Soviet Union!"  Predictable punchline I know but that's civil servants for you.

Finally to you Locutus-Mouse, I was wondering what your opinion on Gorden Brown was.  He is Scottish but do you feel that is going to be a good thing for Scotland or will he pretty much ignore his home country?  He is after all, in the wise-words of George Bush, "not the dour Scotsman".

[Stuart2007]

This is why I try not to discuss politics with the Scottish (I know, all my family are Scottish except me). If you look carefully and watch the news a bit, you will note that there is an imbalance alright, but not how you describe. There are many cases in which a scottish MP at Westminster can vote on matters that do not affect Scotland. Yet an English MP at Westminster has no say in Holyrood. Can this be fair? Why can England not have its own parliment?

Your arguement just doesn't work. Sorry. If you are promoting full seperation of England, Scotland and Wales, then I say good luck to you. Hopefully then my tax bill might fall a bit.

I am glad you agree that Wales has not exactly been treated fairly by Parliament, Locutus-Mouse, and it is ridiculous that what happens in Wales is often dictated by a mostly English group of MPs.

Again, do your welsh MPs at Westminster not partake in decisions that affect England? Why therefore should I have to suffer there decisions? You see the point? Your arguement can work in reverse.

I don't understand this- you make good arguements and are clearly of intelligence, yet you seem to be unable to view any arguement from another perspective (see above). I fear that people are being manipulated to do whatever they are told, just by the 'anti English' crusade.

Just one question- how on earth can you say that the Olympics is robbing Wales specifically? Did the Welsh MPs not take part in the decision for this ridiculous waste of money? Why blame English MPs only? Have you not looked at the Nationalities of the ruling government?

Stu

[[RWP]DJM]

(I know, all my family are Scottish except me).

That's like saying "All those sheep are goats, except that one"

[Water Weasel]

I enjoy history and flags immensely, however, please let's keep this discussion pertaining to the patrol boat repaint or else I shall cease to be a "gent" and will close the thread. 

Thank you,

WW

[Captain Davies]

My apologise Water Weasel.

[Water Weasel]

I enjoy history and flags immensely, however, please let's keep this discussion pertaining to the patrol boat repaint or else I shall cease to be a "gent" and will close the thread. 

Thank you,

WW

Please someone start a flags/flag history thread; I and other members will enjoy reading, I just wanted this thread to stay on track.

Thanks,

WW

[thassos]

Remember this only work in SS2006.

The old SS2006 reskins can be used in SS2008.
If you find the folder named Actors and then inside there you will find Objects.  Once there, open the folder named Harbour Patrol and look at the three folders already in there.
Assuming you haven't yet added a reskin you have to create a new folder named "004 name of skin you want" in the same style as those already there and you then just put the new *.dds file in the folder.   You just carry on doing this for any skins you want.
Then in the editor, when you want to place a Patrol Vessel your new skins will appear in the list for you to choose.

The new skin must NOT be placed in the main P6 folder - it MUST have it's own folder or, as Maad_fred points out in another thread, all P6 versions will have the same skin