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Author Topic: Docking the Latitude  (Read 11205 times)

Jackal

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Re: Docking the Latitude
« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2007, 19:28:56 »

We need one of the oil terminals in western Norway, and a loading platform in the North Sea. Then the Latitude got something to do, we already got the sea environment needed. Vstep, this is your next job ;)

Wow, that's a great idea!  :)
Or maybe in the future a new area in the middle east...  ;)
Ciao,

  Corrado
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Jackal

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Re: Docking the Latitude
« Reply #26 on: August 26, 2007, 21:57:50 »

Also, I supposed too that the Needles channel is not the best route to Southampton for deep draught ships.

Well, looking around I found that VLCCs navigate to the Solent from East (Nab Channel) and pilots are boarded south of the Nab Tower (here: http://www.southamptonvts.co.uk/files/pilot%20boarding.pdf ). Now the question is: where do VLCCs stop? I mean, is there some offloading platform in the Solent? Since they can't go to Southampton, I assume so, but... Any idea?
Ciao,

  Corrado
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muns

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Re: Docking the Latitude
« Reply #27 on: August 26, 2007, 22:59:56 »

Fawley Oil Refinery or BP Hamble.

(I havnt managed to get the Lattitude there 'cos of her draft)
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LucAtC

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Re: Docking the Latitude
« Reply #28 on: August 26, 2007, 23:27:43 »

Hello Jackal,
There is the Fawley terminal (is it Exxon?), upstream from Calshot Castle?
The channel is apparently dredged to 12.6m, so that depending on the tide, with an additional 0.50 to 4.50m, supertankers can sail the Thorn Channel and Calshot Reach to the terminal?
Latitude is at the low limit of VLCCs (>200000t), that is, above Suezmax dimensions. It seems probable that the dredging is a direct function of the maximum envisaged draught. The waterdepths due to tide that can be added to the depths on the chart vary from 0 to 4.50m, as described in the picture (from the Solent chart SHOM(FR) 6560 - Solent Partie Est - Spithead).
Perhaps is there someone from the area who can answer this?
Unloading Latitude to gain 3m would give an interesting challenge indeed, as soon as tidal streams will be represented?
Regards,
Luc
Edit, thank you muns for the answer given before the question!  :D
Also, Stena Normandy (now Normandy of Irish Ferries?) has a design draught of 6.10m, Stu was apparently 10cm wrong?
« Last Edit: August 26, 2007, 23:32:49 by LucAtC »
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Jackal

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Re: Docking the Latitude
« Reply #29 on: August 27, 2007, 00:39:30 »

Thanks muns and Luc; as I said before, would be fun and challenging to take the Latitude to Southampton; I've seen where the Fawley terminal is and it could be reached should the Latitude have 15m draft. That's another reason why I think it should be a good idea for the future to simulate different draft depending on the load (on big ships, at least). Until then, no VLCC to Southampton!  ;)
Ciao,

  Corrado
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sadsid († 2016)

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Re: Docking the Latitude
« Reply #30 on: August 27, 2007, 07:27:31 »

Just looking milford haven on google take's some big tankers it has
deep water channel may take lattitude ;D
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Sam

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Re: Docking the Latitude
« Reply #31 on: August 27, 2007, 08:41:48 »

I think that Rotterdam can handle the Lattitude.

Supertankers go there all the time!

Here are some pictures of the TI Europe in Rotterdam.
http://oilrotterdam.vopak.com/tieurope/
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pigdog

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Re: Docking the Latitude
« Reply #32 on: August 27, 2007, 09:50:17 »

The Latitude should make it up to Fawley on a rising tide (which isn't simulated in the game!) there must be a problem with the depth of water at Fawley terminal in the game or she is too big for the Solent full stop, if she can make it to Calshot then she should make it to the Fawley Jetty berth and not run aground.
As well as picking up her pilot outside the nab she would also have an escort tug based at Fawley attatched to her stern which would go out to meet her and escort her in/out, it's now a requirement for vessels (mainly tankers) above a certain size to have escort tugs in confined waters after accidents such as Exxon Valdez etc.

The Stena Normandy used to go out through the needles channel but I think due to the cost of maintaining the channel ie: dredging it they stopped so it's only for vessels with a certain draft very small coasters and yachts etc, It's a shame really as that is one of the main factors that shut the Southampton - Cherbourg service down the extra fuel costs of using the main channel out to the Nab.
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Stuart2007

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Re: Docking the Latitude
« Reply #33 on: August 28, 2007, 00:21:14 »

I'm sure the Stena Normandy used to run the needles channel when on route from Southampton to Cherbourg in 91-96.

Here she is in Southampton Water.
Hi
I'd be surprised, but I don't know enough to argue. All I know is PO and BF all go around the east. I know a chap who will know 100% but as I'm waiting for the taxi to go on holiday now, I'll ask him when I get back.

Stu
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pigdog

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Re: Docking the Latitude
« Reply #34 on: August 28, 2007, 08:51:31 »

Yes nothing big has come through the needles channel for years as far as I'm aware, I was on the Stena Normandy when we went through there on one occasion but I missed it all, I was too drunk and too busy chatting up a bird in the bar at the time.
I have been through there on a tug (sober, I may add) but that was in fog so nothing to see really.

P&O and BF use the nab channel to the east as they are based in Portsmouth and that would cause more mayhem if they used the needles channel having to keep clear of large frieght vessels such as tankers and containerships bound for Southampton as these are sometimes known as "clear channel vessels" as they are often restricted in their ability to manouvre and all other vessels must keep out of the main navigation channel or wait to pass these ships at designated places in Southampton water.

Just for your info not only did I miss going through the needles channel but the girl wasn't interested either so a pretty poor trip really.
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muns

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Re: Docking the Latitude
« Reply #35 on: August 28, 2007, 09:03:48 »

Yes nothing big has come through the needles channel for years as far as I'm aware, I was on the Stena Normandy when we went through there on one occasion but I missed it all, I was too drunk and too busy chatting up a bird in the bar at the time.

I dont think I recall seeing the needles whilst on the Stena Normandy - like you say - too busy in the bar drinking and chatting up girls or gambling on the tables, especially on the outbound journey (to Cherbourg) as it allways the overnight sailing.

I dont recall if the Townsend Thoreson ferries went via the Needles when they plied the Southampton - Cherbourg route, before giving up on Southampton and concentrating on Portsmouth.
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pigdog

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Re: Docking the Latitude
« Reply #36 on: August 29, 2007, 09:43:20 »

The Stena Normandy did occasionally go out that way if she was running late and depending on tide/depth of water etc, it wasn't her normal route and she had to get permission from VTS or SPR as it was then, but she would normally use the nab channel as her normal route.

When Thoresen first started sailing from Southampton they used the needles all the time when running to Cherbourg but they had many complaints from the Island about beaches getting washed away and large waves from the wake of the ships so they either had to reduce speed or go in and out to the east via the nab.

When Thoresen became Townsend Thoresen and they added the new faster ships and P&O well (Normandie Ferries) were running the same route in competition the amount of sailings would have caused too much damage to the shore line so they only used it to make up time on the Cherbourg route only.

Then Townsend took over P&O (Normandie Ferries) then they all sailed off to Portsmouth in about 1986 then P&O took over Townsend in about 1987.

That concludes the history lesson for today, I wish I never asked my father in law about it now, he was on Thoresen ferries from the very start of the service.   

Fascinating actually... But please don't use language like that
« Last Edit: September 11, 2007, 11:12:03 by Stuart2007 »
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muns

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Re: Docking the Latitude
« Reply #37 on: August 29, 2007, 13:38:00 »

Then Townsend took over P&O (Normandie Ferries) then they all sailed off to Portsmouth in about 1986 then P&O took over Townsend in about 1987.

Me mam lost her job when this happened (she workid in P&O's office in Southampton).  I must admit it was strange seeing the P&O ferry "Dragon" with a red hull and the TT wording instead of the pale blue and "P&O Ferries".

I think the reason they all buggered off to Portsmouth was cos of the dock workers in southampton being a little pig headed and not working all the time.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2007, 11:11:48 by Stuart2007 »
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Stuart2007

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Re: Docking the Latitude
« Reply #38 on: September 11, 2007, 11:14:25 »

I must admit that I'm a little suprised by how narrow the navigable water of the solent is... as it looks so wide.

When I'm in Portsmouth next month I shall pick up an admiralty chart and go off to the solent with a rowing boat and a long piece of string with a weight on the end and measure it ;)

Stu
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marcstrat

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Re: Docking the Latitude
« Reply #39 on: September 11, 2007, 12:05:44 »

Greetings Stuart2007,
I've sailed up this part to cowes,and you would be surpriced how narrow this is.It's the same on the river scheldt,on his widest area,it's about 5 Km,but the actualy channel,that you can sail a seagoing vessel,is quit narrow.
The solent,is realy not an exeption,in the world.
Regards
Marc
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akkres

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Re: Docking the Latitude
« Reply #40 on: September 11, 2007, 12:33:21 »

This tanker Latitude must get into Rotterdam at the Maasvlakte. A draught of 22 m is no problem to enter Rotterdam Maasvlakte (when entering to the sb and then astern tot the MOT (Maasvlakte Olie Terminal)) or to enter the Calland channel (When entering Europoort its the starboar channel, keep the dam at your port side). But you have to stay in the deepdraft channels ofcourse.
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Stuart2007

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Re: Docking the Latitude
« Reply #41 on: September 11, 2007, 15:33:55 »

Greetings Stuart2007,
I've sailed up this part to cowes,and you would be surpriced how narrow this is.It's the same on the river scheldt,on his widest area,it's about 5 Km,but the actualy channel,that you can sail a seagoing vessel,is quit narrow.
The solent,is realy not an exeption,in the world.
It really has shocked me, to be honest. I suppose that down at the mouth of the estaury it has very little current flow- just the tide, so nowhere to wash the sediment coming down. The Nile is like that too. Maybe we'll find a delta forms in the solent over the next ice age or 2.

Stu
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Cloud

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Re: Docking the Latitude
« Reply #42 on: September 12, 2007, 00:00:01 »

Quote
This tanker Latitude must get into Rotterdam at the Maasvlakte. A draught of 22 m is no problem to enter Rotterdam Maasvlakte]This tanker Latitude must get into Rotterdam at the Maasvlakte. A draught of 22 m is no problem to enter Rotterdam Maasvlakte

You're absolutely right! I brought her into Nerefco Europort a couple times. Haven't tried the oil terminal at Maasvlakte but should be fine also. I tried Fawley, but is indeed too shallow.

Cloud
« Last Edit: September 12, 2007, 00:07:36 by Cloud »
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Cloud

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Re: Docking the Latitude
« Reply #43 on: September 12, 2007, 05:25:41 »

Just gave it a go, Maasvlakte Oil Terminal is also ok; there is even enough water to turn the vessel off the berth.

Have fun!!  ;)
« Last Edit: September 12, 2007, 05:27:40 by Cloud »
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clanky

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Re: Docking the Latitude
« Reply #44 on: September 12, 2007, 13:44:03 »

Hello Stu,
The draught is that of the sim, and is also consistent with VLCCs, look for instance at http://www.pacificenergypier400.com/index2.php?id=16 .
Also, I supposed too that the Needles channel is not the best route to Southampton for deep draught ships.
Not knowing much of British harbours (but Weymouth & Portland, Dover), the only place I knew was Bantry Bay in Ireland. Nice place, behind Whiddy Is, Glengariff "cove"(?), Bear Is with a French sailing school, and although there was no tanker in sight, it was surely deep enough. Is there a similar place in the UK?
Regards,
Luc
Edit: Thanks and sorry Kevinmcg_ships, having missed Hunterston (bulk terminal?), found Ineos (?) Finnart oil tanker terminal in Loch Long. (pictures http://www.flickr.com/photos/alancaldwell/1139405205/  )

Not entirely true,  I have been that way on a 27,000 ton ro-ro vessel.

Also as to the maintained depths of the channels these are depths at chart datum, allowing for the range of tide then ships with much deeper draughts can pass through the channel.
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LucAtC

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Re: Docking the Latitude
« Reply #45 on: September 12, 2007, 20:54:25 »

Well, you mean a Ro-ro deep draught vessel sailing through the Needles? Most VLCCs have a greater draught than Ro-ro, perhaps you could tell the draught to Stuart2007?  :)
As to the maintained depth, ok, you can even read some more data about it in this thread.
Regrads,
Luc
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clanky

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Re: Docking the Latitude
« Reply #46 on: September 12, 2007, 21:01:03 »

Sorry Luc, I seem to have quoted the wrong post, can't eve find the one I meant to quote, it was something about only the smallest vessels sailing through the needles.  I think I probably got to the end of a page somewhere and thought it was the end of the thread.

Just for info the draught of the ship I was on was somewhere in the region of 7 meters.
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Traddles

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Re: Docking the Latitude
« Reply #47 on: November 06, 2007, 23:44:34 »

Sorry I missed this thread when I posted
Quote
"Berthing the "Latitude"
earlier tonight. In that post I mentioned that I had found I could berth "Latitude" at the Constable Hook oil terminal in New Jersey on the West side of New York harbour.
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Stuart2007

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Re: Docking the Latitude
« Reply #48 on: November 25, 2007, 18:32:00 »

Not entirely true,  I have been that way on a 27,000 ton ro-ro vessel.

Also as to the maintained depths of the channels these are depths at chart datum, allowing for the range of tide then ships with much deeper draughts can pass through the channel.

Sorry. Never saw this post. If I understand correctly, the NW was once a navigable channel, but it is not any more- at least not for large draught ships.

That said, I was watching an AIS chart and it showed the Saga Rose going that way, so maybe I'm wrong.

Stu
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