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Author Topic: Becker Rudders MISSING!  (Read 18672 times)

joelang1699

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Re: Becker Rudders MISSING!
« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2009, 13:49:18 »

A HA, I knew this must have been the case. Thanks for the info Nathan!
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joelang1699

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Re: Becker Rudders MISSING!
« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2009, 14:51:58 »

I wonder why she had 'spade' down on her pilot card. Its not uncommon however for ships plans to be wrong, When I served on the MV Davn Merchant in Norfolkline service, she had a compartment in the bow drawn on the plans that didnt exist in reality, none of the ships ships of the class had it!. This was also the case with another small room in the accomodation.
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joelang1699

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Re: Becker Rudders MISSING!
« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2009, 15:21:08 »

Your probably right there Nathan there may not be an overwhelming need for seperate control in the game, however a simulation should try to be as accurate as possible.

Independant control could be used for station keeping, one thrusting port and one thrusting starboard, assuming overcourse the thrusters are of the same rating (blade size, rpm, kw)
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joelang1699

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Re: Becker Rudders MISSING!
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2009, 15:39:52 »

Thats another thing, im glad you brought up the windows. The view out the bride wings is quite poor, probably beacause you cant get the camera over far enough (walking mode) to berth the ship while looking astern. As you know this is how we do it in reality. Im not complaining though, I would rather have proper maneuverability than bridge views.
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LucAtC

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Re: Becker Rudders MISSING!
« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2009, 16:07:45 »

Fugit irreparabile tempus... I had a closer look at the "Pilot Card and Wheelhouse poster", and saw that the sea trials happened in October 2001, more than enough time since then to improve rudders or anything else more than one time. I doubt Fincantieri could have made such a mistake, but there is also question of (absent) stern thrusters on the poster, raising of course some doubts about its validity. Apparently, PoBruges and PoR underwent important repairs (or modifications?) to their rudders during maintenance works at Amsterdam's Shipdock.
Also, the wheelhouse poster data print is composite, some trials being of PoH and turning circles of PoR; or it could be that the poster wasn't checked by Fincantieri or RINA. (Impossible).

There are surely reasons for having changed the spade rudders to flapped, high lift rudders. The turning circle diameters were (as well at MCR as at full harbour speeds) around 1.8 Lbp at 45 degrees rudder angle, very small circles, with a high speed loss. But if it indicates already good manoeuvring characteristics, it is less significant at near to zero speed, when berthing, where flapped rudders at high angles are at their best.

So, to answer Nathan's question, he could next time try to check if the poster is still valid, and find some more RoT data when PoR turns "on the spot" when leaving her berth in the Beneluxhaven. Some pictures with timestamps, or a video record, would be highly interesting.

Anyway, many thanks for the interesting info.

Regards,
Luc
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joelang1699

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Re: Becker Rudders MISSING!
« Reply #30 on: January 18, 2009, 16:47:10 »

Hey Nathan, I dont suppose you could kindly ask the old man on the POR if they sisters were built with Beckers or had them fitted at a later stage?

LucAtC: It is unlikely that Fincantieri never checked the poster but mistakes like this are all two common at sea. When I worked for Norfolkine we discovered that the Dawn and Brave Merchant had their lifeboats swapped at build and that the certificates the vessels had been sailing with for 7 years didnt match the srial numbers in the boats. This was supposed to be checked numerous times since fitting out.

I have seen pilot cards in error before but on with small things, never the wrong type of steering.
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LucAtC

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Re: Becker Rudders MISSING!
« Reply #31 on: January 19, 2009, 01:55:04 »

Hello Nathan,

Thanks for the link, it is indeed such videos that give a feeling of the turn rate, and if it was a continuous recording, valuable data can also be derived for the simulation. It will of course never be PoR, but the goal is to give a correct idea of the handling of the ship, as well as possible.

Regards,
Luc
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storm22

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Re: Becker Rudders MISSING!
« Reply #32 on: January 19, 2009, 05:56:02 »

will ship simulator 2010 hit canada i hop it will i love the game ???
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ash

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Re: Becker Rudders MISSING!
« Reply #33 on: January 20, 2009, 18:19:00 »


As you can see, it's fitted with 'spade' rudders. I know it's a model, but someone who puts that much afford in such detailed model and has the orginal blue prints, would make the orginal rudder right?
it does have four bladed props!!
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joelang1699

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Re: Becker Rudders MISSING!
« Reply #34 on: January 20, 2009, 19:18:00 »

Me...I can only see three blades there.
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joelang1699

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Re: Becker Rudders MISSING!
« Reply #35 on: January 20, 2009, 19:32:18 »

I ran this through paint shop enhancer, I only count three blades there not four!



« Last Edit: January 20, 2009, 19:37:25 by joelang1699 »
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TerryRussell

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Re: Becker Rudders MISSING!
« Reply #36 on: January 20, 2009, 20:42:37 »

No guarantee that the model is accurate in that respect though, is there?
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joelang1699

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Re: Becker Rudders MISSING!
« Reply #37 on: January 20, 2009, 20:51:38 »

Which model Terry? the one pictured or the one in the agme?
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TerryRussell

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Re: Becker Rudders MISSING!
« Reply #38 on: January 20, 2009, 21:27:01 »

Exactly!
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joelang1699

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Re: Becker Rudders MISSING!
« Reply #39 on: January 20, 2009, 21:28:58 »

Youve lost me mate lol
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TerryRussell

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Re: Becker Rudders MISSING!
« Reply #40 on: January 20, 2009, 22:06:23 »

well, as the propellors are supposed to be in the water all the time, and as this is a simulation, not a real-life copy, there's no promise of accurracy in the game.

Also, that model in the picture may not be accurrate in that respect. Who can tell?

Don't forget that propellors get changed in real life. The actual performance characteristics may need to be changed as the usage of the vessel is changed. It happens more often than you might think.
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ash

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Re: Becker Rudders MISSING!
« Reply #41 on: January 20, 2009, 22:46:45 »

you can just see the fourth you cant see it very well on the background of the other props
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Sam

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Re: Becker Rudders MISSING!
« Reply #42 on: January 21, 2009, 08:16:31 »

you can just see the fourth you cant see it very well on the background of the other props

The model clearly has 3-blade propellors.
Or what do you mean?
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ADDUBYA

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Re: Becker Rudders MISSING!
« Reply #43 on: January 21, 2009, 19:50:14 »

Pride of Rotterdam and Pride of Hull both have Wartsila highly skewed controllable pitch propellers as stated before.
These propellers from Wartsila only come in 4 or 5 blade configuration. So there is yet another fly in the ointment. She definitely does not have just 3 blades but may in fact have 5.
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joelang1699

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Re: Becker Rudders MISSING!
« Reply #44 on: January 21, 2009, 20:25:50 »

Speaking from an extensive RO/PAX background, I never been on a modern ferry with five blades, its more likely she has four blades.

The model pictured incorrectly has a three bladed prop fitted HOWEVER there are other pics of the same model with the right amount of blades (four) fitted.

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