controlling the vmass

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[ozziesailor]

has anyone noticed that the vmass althrough she is such a big ship, that she seems to lack steering.

in the mission where u need to take her to the new terminal and basicly do a parallel park inbetween to ships is almost near impossible cause the ship is juz hopeless to turn and stop and speed up.... maybe there should of been rear thrusters on her?

[marcstrat]

Greetings,
I dont know how you sail this vessel,but i was able to dock her in Marseille,in some free-roam mission,which i've made.
I dont have problems with this vessel.Offcource she does not turn or speed up like some other vessels,in the game.I'm sure it has something to do with the lenght,and draft of this vessel.
Marc

[mvsmith]

Marc,
Why don’t you avoid the technical words like “length” and “draft”, and just say that she’s really, really big?
Probably, some missions have her going places where she was never meant to go.
Regards,
Marty

[marcstrat]

Hoy mvsmith,
Yes,that can be also the reason why she's not responding.
Maybe,when he show this,with some pics,and explain what he has done,might help.
Marc

[Sam]

I think the Vermaas turns much to fast for a ship of that size.

[groennegaard]

I think the Vermaas turns much to fast for a ship of that size.

Do you have any data that could substantiate your theory or are you just guessing? We have a lot of these 'too slow', 'too fast', 'too heavy' etc. comments, but without any documentation, the comments aren't really constructive and can't be used at anything - not even a discussion.

Regards
groennegaard

[Sam]

I tried a Polaris bridge simulator once with a P&O ferry who is much smaller then the Vermaas and it turned much slower then this huge container ship.

Maybe it is just in my game in wich it turns to fast.

I have no data beceaus the m/v Vermaas is a fictional vessel.


I hope you are happy now.

[groennegaard]

The Kongsberg simulators are all right but I don't think you can compare a full mission simulator experience to a desktop sim like SS - especially if you are playing in view 1. That is why I think we should compare facts and figures rather than the 'feeling'.

I know the Vermaas is 'fictional' when it comes to the name, but it would surprise me if VSTEP came up with this design all by themselves without seeking inspiration in existing vessels... I thought you might have data from similar vessels of the same size and power since you seemed so sure that ship turned too fast for a ship of that size, but apparently you don't.

Regards
groennegaard

[Sam]

I wasn't shure, I said "I think".

Ok, I played a shipsim called pocsim 3d (Pors Of Call).
And in that sim, a container ship similar to that one turned much slower.

And people who are on that forum said it was pretty realistic, there only was a lak of weather and current effects.

[marcstrat]

That is why I think we should compare facts and figures rather than the 'feeling'.

Greetings Jacob,
I agree complete with these words.
Its more realistic to,than going on feelings.I have seen many vessels in my life.
Most of the people say,that the "vermaas" is not realy correct with his dynamics,however i've seen many containervessels on the northsea,while i was crossing this to england.Well,they can turn quit fast.
For the docking,(what i think)you have to give power on the rudder,and your vessel will react very fast.
Marc

[groennegaard]

I managed to dig up data for some container vessels but unfortunately I can't reveal their actual names, but the figures are accurate. I have included the vessel displacement (can't remember Vermaas') and OA lenght. The times are in minutes. As you can see, a fully loaded Emma Mærsk size container-ship can actually turn faster than the Vermaas...

	Vermaas	Emma-size	Mid-size (ballast)
Course	? t - 315m	201300 t - 398m	44150 t - 285m
090	2:40	2:44	1:38
180	5:32	4:98	3:05
360	8:25	7:25	4:35

Regards
groennegaard

[marcstrat]

Thanks for this update,Jacob
We can conclude that the "vermaas" is reacting like in real life now.Dont we?
Marc

[groennegaard]

Hi Marc

I usually don't conclude anything on such small amount of data. I'm rather trying to make it probable that the Vermaas turns as such a vessel actually do and that it isn't turning too fast compared to other vessels in that particular class...

Regards
groennegaard

[LucAtC]

Hello groennegaard and Marc  ,
When I read numbers, I cannot help jumping to them, this time because I had checked the rotation of Vermaas after having put the add-on (Version 1.2, Build 1015). Full ahead, 45° right rudder, the RoT was stabilized reasonably at 50°/min after 15 sec, and the speed from a maximum of 26.5 kts fell quickly and then more gradually to 11kts at the end of a 360° turn.
090   1:50
180   3:35
360   7:10 and so a mean RoT near to that of the Emma-size container-ship in your post.
The last 180° mean a tactical diameter of 820m (ie a radius of 215s x 6m/s /Pi), 2.6 lengths (Lpp 315?).
I doubt that any sober chief engineer would authorize 45° rudder at a speed above 25kts (in the case the rudder system makes it possible). Also, I thought the speed would have settled after a quarter turn or 120° maximum, there are some strong reasons for that.
Anyway, these numbers seem indeed realistic enough.
Regards,
Luc

[Stuart2007]

The last 180° mean a tactical diameter of 820m (ie a radius of 215s x 6m/s /Pi), 2.6 lengths (Lpp 315?).
I doubt that any sober chief engineer would authorize 45° rudder at a speed above 25kts (in the case the rudder system makes it possible). Also, I thought the speed would have settled after a quarter turn or 120° maximum, there are some strong reasons for that.
Anyway, these numbers seem indeed realistic enough.
Regards,
Luc

I couldn't have put it better myself 

Stu

[Sam]

Ok, you convinced me.