Topic: Tug Handling (Read 7704 times)

toni81 · « **on:** July 19, 2007, 12:46:23 »

Hello Everyone,
I finally got my SS 08'. Let me start by saying this game is sweet.
I started by commencing a mission into Hamburg with the large container ship. Part of the mission gave me the option to assist the ship by using the small harbor tug. This tug appears to be the same tug as SS 2006.
The tug has a new feature of a bow thruster which is pretty cool, but the handling of the tug is alot less responsive that last year's. In SS 2006, the tug had instant power, the steering capability and the engine revs were a lot more responsive. I loved last year's tug characteristics. What are your views? Otherwise what a great game. I love it!

Thanks,
Toni

Ballast · « **Reply #1 on:** July 19, 2007, 13:00:44 »

Yes i agree, the handling of the little tug in the 2006 version was mutch better. With these kind of tugs, 2 engines and a bowtruster, you can write your name in the water

Also the handeling of the Fairmount Sherpa is rubbish

chouby-20 · « **Reply #2 on:** July 19, 2007, 13:13:40 »

The bow thruster of Fairmount Sherpa is not very efficient and I'm surprise that a ship like this doesn't have a stern tunnel thruster

Eemspoort · « **Reply #3 on:** July 19, 2007, 13:59:10 »

The little tug from SS06 was very responsive indeed. After the 1.8 patch, is was much less responsive.
So what do you all mean? Is it less responsive then in SS06 without the patch, or less responsive then in SS06 WITH patch??

If it is less responsive then in SS06 WITH patch, then that ship is rubbish now....
The resposivenes of the tug should be between for and after the 1.8 patch. But thats just my humble opinion.

I can't speak for SS08, since i don't have it yet.

toni81 · « **Reply #4 on:** July 19, 2007, 14:30:13 »

You need SS 08' to understand what were talking about. Once you get it, let us know you're opinion on the difference of handling.

With the SS 2006, the tugs handled so well you didnt need a bow thruster, all you had to do is put the rudder hard over and she handled like it had 70 degrees rudder.

Ballast · « **Reply #5 on:** July 19, 2007, 14:34:49 »

Quote from: chouby-20 on July 19, 2007, 13:13:40

The bow thruster of Fairmount Sherpa is not very efficient and I'm surprise that a ship like this doesn't have a stern tunnel thruster

The real Fairmount Sherpa does have a stern thruster $:-\$

budbud · « **Reply #6 on:** August 30, 2007, 14:42:14 »

Good day everybody,
I'm a seaman on a supply ship (an ahts like the fairmount sherpa) and i'm surprised about the behaviour of this one in the simulator.
Yes the bow thruster is really not efficient enough. In real ship in harbour without wind or current, if you put 40% in the bow thruster, you have enough power to keep your heading while mean engines are 20% ahead and astern. In the simulator with 4% in the main engines and 80% in the bow thruster, ship is turning!
Second point: 10% ahead in both main engines, 7 kts (?), and 80% ahead 15 kts ! I think it's two much compared to reality.
Third point: Most af supply ships these days have asynchronous rudders we can manoeuvre independantly one from the other. In manoeuvre we use them most of the time both turned inside. Is it possible to make it rendered in the simulator?
Finally, regarding the stern thruster, sure a ship like the fairmount has one in reality but some others doesn't have. It's not compulsary, because there is enough power in main engines.

Conclusion: the ship is really beautiful in the simulator but, maybe some points can be improved. Perhaps in a patch?
(sorry for my english, i'm a french man!)
romain

Bottman · « **Reply #7 on:** August 30, 2007, 16:07:21 »

Hi budbud,

you are right, of course - and you will see some changes with the upcomming patch, incl. the stern thruster. Guess, it would be no problem to split up the two rudders for individual use, but surely not with the next patch

.

Cheers

Water Weasel · « **Reply #8 on:** August 30, 2007, 16:39:27 »

I did an install of pre-1.08 SS2006 to a non-default directory, then copied over act_smalltugboat.cgr to the default directory that is patched to 1.08, this gave me the old responsiveness. I have't encountered any problems.

WW

budbud · « **Reply #9 on:** August 31, 2007, 02:21:38 »

hi,

thanks for the answer.
Waiting for the patch!
cheers.

Kaitsu · « **Reply #10 on:** September 02, 2007, 13:40:12 »

Even more alarming thing is that the tug has no affect at all. I'm talking about the mission where the tug assists the Vermaas into the berth in Hamburg. I engaged a towingline to the aft of Vermaas. Started pulling flank ahead directly 90 degrees to the side in order to get it swinged 180 degrees. Nothing happened. I thought - ok, let's not use the tug. So I decided manouvre the Vermaas into the berth on its own. about 20 meters apart from quay, the ship stops. Now what? I checked the logs, and it said - environment collision. Howcome there not be enough water right next to the berth? oh, and btw - where do I find the spesific drafts for each ship?

Bottman · « **Reply #11 on:** September 02, 2007, 14:17:46 »

Hi Kaitsu,

it's more a "logic collision" - the VERMAAS should have a construction draft of around 14,50 m. So there are very few places to berth her in Hamburg or in San Francisco too, because the water depth are between 10,50 m and 13,00 m at low tide! But vessels like the VERMAAS will arrive and depart at high tide and normally not fully loaded here and there, but they are indeed frequent guests in Hamburg and San Fran. The program works with the lowest tide depths and the maximun draft of the vessels. So we have a conflict, which could be solved some times when we get tidal influences and/or the ship editor to change the draft.

And you are right, the small tug is useless at all. We need a real powerful one and I guess, it is still under construction! Since we didn't know about those depth-draft problems, we have made realistic missions, but the VERMAAS don't fit into it..

Cheers

Sam · « **Reply #12 on:** September 02, 2007, 16:30:42 »

To me, the tug manouvers more realistic.

When going backwards, the rudder has les effect.
Now that is included in the 2008 version, so it is much better for me!

Bottman · « **Reply #13 on:** September 02, 2007, 16:33:23 »

Of course, you are right! But there will be no other way for more realistic missions/towing jobs than a new and much more powerful tug.

Sam · « **Reply #14 on:** September 02, 2007, 16:34:44 »

I agree, a more powerful tug should be build.

But the realism has approved!

Some realism wich should be added is the screw turn effect on a single screw ship, like the MV Vermaas and the MV Lattitude.

Bottman · « **Reply #15 on:** September 02, 2007, 16:36:29 »

Yeah, and it's much more fun to steer the tug with the improved precision steering mode that you will get with the patch..

Sam · « **Reply #16 on:** September 02, 2007, 18:31:10 »

You are making me curios.

DeepSea · « **Reply #17 on:** September 02, 2007, 18:42:36 »

I agree with the above post that a more powerful and maneuverable tug is needed for ship escort, given the harbor tugs LOA, beam and draft (25m x 8m x 1m) it appears to be modeled after a conventional tug which by todays standards would not be used for ship docking. After operating the harbor tug the first thing I noticed is the bow thruster, normally a tug this size would not have or need one as the rudders are are large enough to give sufficient lateral thrust so that the boat can be "walked" sideways, also noticed that when backing down the rudders seem to take effect instantly, unless the tug has flanking rudders you need a couple knots of stern way before the rudders will give any steerage.
having said that, I realize this sim is geared more to entertainment than absolute realism, I'm enjoying it very much and look forward to any future updates.

Thanks

Shipaddict · « **Reply #18 on:** September 02, 2007, 18:47:06 »

That vermaas mission i moores the stern with the tug and it moved at 0.1 knots.

So yes, we need a powerful tug!

Sam · « **Reply #19 on:** September 02, 2007, 19:53:29 »

To answer your post;

- This harbor tug has becker rudders.
- Conventional tugs are steel used. (In the Port of Rotterdam, biggest port of Europe)
- A lot of conventional tugs of this size do have a bowthruster.

I think you are steel talking about the 2006 tug, that one had bad realism.

DeepSea · « **Reply #20 on:** September 06, 2007, 00:26:49 »

Hello Sam,

Iâ€™m not familiar with the becker rudder, are you talking about a flanking rudder or steerable kort nozzle, if so that would explain the tugs immediate response to the rudder when backing,

Yes you are correct, conventional tugs are still used but for ship docking they are becoming more obsolete every day as more companies are replacing them with tractors or upgrading the older hulls that are still in good condition, one solution I know of is to replace the conventional gear with asimuthing stern drives which provide good maneuverability and stability with the older hull design and some are using a retractable asimuthing bow thruster but these are mostly on single screw boats.
I currently work in the Port of Hampton Roads and the smallest conventional boats used for ship docking that Iâ€™m aware of here are 100â€™ to 110â€™ LOA and they are usually deployed with one of the modern tractors, also worth noting is that were ship docking is concerned a pair of tractors can do the same job that used to take 3 to 4 conventional boats.

I assumed, wrongly of course, that the harbor tug was modeled after a small conventional boat with a bow thruster mounted in a tunnel, open propellers and rudders positioned aft of the props only and it just didnâ€™t handle or have the power I expected it to have.
Still, it seems like a small tug to try and dock a 1,000â€™ ship with.

As for the tug in SS06, I do not have that version to base a comparison.

ADDUBYA · « **Reply #21 on:** September 06, 2007, 03:54:47 »

A Becker rudder is a high performance rudder that has a flap on the trailing edge which increases the rudder angle to 60 or 65 degrees. Named for its inventor, Becker Marine Systems.

Author Topic: Tug Handling (Read 7704 times)