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Author Topic: i want a answer!  (Read 4909 times)

Mr Robville

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i want a answer!
« on: August 24, 2007, 17:11:31 »

i posted these questions a several times about sinking, but still no answer, not even from a moderator,
can finaly answer someone?

1. are you able to walk on board when you boat sinks?
2. how fast sinks a ship (i hope not so fast as in the bug that titanic dissapears in 5 seconds)
3. what happens if your ship is gone

thank you

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Lanedre

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Re: i want a answer!
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2007, 17:35:46 »

I don't think any others then the beta testers can answer these questions because the patch who makes it possible for the ships to sink hasn't been released yet ;)
And the beta testers are really busy at the time so I think you will just have to wait :)
But somebody here on the forum might have the answers for your questions...so my suggestion is to wait for the patch and find out yourself or wait for somebody to think up a better answer then me :D   
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Mr Robville

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Re: i want a answer!
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2007, 17:55:47 »

yeah, but i hope, when the ship sinks it will not dissapear in 2 or 5 seconds, like the sinking-bug
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Lanedre

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Re: i want a answer!
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2007, 18:04:49 »

I think it will take longer then 5-10 seconds...but thats just my thoughts ;)
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sadsid († 2016)

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Re: i want a answer!
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2007, 18:19:22 »

I think it will depend on how badly you damage the ship as to how fast the ship go'es down
                                                                                                                        ::)
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groennegaard

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Re: i want a answer!
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2007, 19:55:20 »

1. are you able to walk on board when you boat sinks?
2. how fast sinks a ship (i hope not so fast as in the bug that titanic dissapears in 5 seconds)
3. what happens if your ship is gone

1. It is not easy to sink. Ships are build not to sink. I have tried to damage and sink some of the large ships and but luckily I didn't succeed - in real life the collisions and groundings I made wouldn't lead to a sinking so that works as it is supposed to. As I haven't sunk yet -> I don't know.
2. I haven't sunk yet -> I don't know.
3. I haven't tried that either -> I don't know.

Regards
groennegaard
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Agent|Austin

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Re: i want a answer!
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2007, 20:57:00 »

1. It is not easy to sink. Ships are build not to sink. I have tried to damage and sink some of the large ships and but luckily I didn't succeed - in real life the collisions and groundings I made wouldn't lead to a sinking so that works as it is supposed to. As I haven't sunk yet -> I don't know.
2. I haven't sunk yet -> I don't know.
3. I haven't tried that either -> I don't know.

Regards
groennegaard

Try using the speed boat or RJ4 and ram into the sides of things. Running into boats does major damage.
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Captain Spencer

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Re: i want a answer!
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2007, 21:24:24 »

It is not possible to sink boat yet until the patch has come out. Nobody knows how the patch will animate boats when they start to sink and we don't yet know what happens when your boat is on the bottom. I would prefer if we got the same screen as we do on the missions where we get the choice to continue with the game or exit the sim. Perhaps nothing happens, you just lay on the bottom of the sea/port and nothing happens until you reset the sim.

I don't think that any mods or devs here on the forum want to give too much away at the moment, and I hope they don't as it would ruin the surprise.

Just wait til the patch is released, won't be too long now... ;)
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Artificial Intelligence beats Real Stupidity.<br />If at first you don\'t succeed, call it version 1.0.

groennegaard

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Re: i want a answer!
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2007, 21:48:24 »

Try using the speed boat or RJ4 and ram into the sides of things. Running into boats does major damage.

I have tried with the RJ4 and damaged the front part of the starboard hull pretty bad, but I didn't sink or list. Real ships have bulkheads to prevent major leaks from a head on collision so I would not expect the vessel to sink anyway.

I will try the powerboat later.

Regards
groennegaard
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steve149c

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Re: i want a answer!
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2007, 21:51:58 »

The real sinking of a ship occurs in one of two ways - either very quick, ie under a minute, or very long. This depends on the damage, and the damage survivability of the vessel in question. Modern vessels are built in watertight sections, thus you can puncture 2 of these sections for example and the ship will remain afloat. This is known as Damage Stability and the effects of it can be worked out.

For a ferry this is usually the spaces from forward to aft, perhaps 7 in all (for a 200m ferry) and then the engine room is usually a larger space and thus holing the engine room will cause problems - infact lots of problems. Plus a collision bulkhead is at the forward end of all ships - a kind of crumple zone like cars, this is usually the foc'sle which is just a ballast tank/store.

For a true vessel to sink you would need to gouge a huge hole in the ship, you are talking 50 metres plus.

The other way for a vessel to sink is from water ingress - not due to a damage in the hull, but due to the vessel not being watertight, or hatches breaking. The Derbyshire sank because her hatches gave way under the huge waves. The Braer off scotland - you know what caused this to sink/ground? A 200,000T tanker? Someone forgot to lash down some small pipes, these rolled about in the storm, smashing the vents off the fuel pipes, water got into the fuel, engine stops - she's aground!!

Sinking of ships is very hard to program, the same ship will sink 20 different ways depending on how she was holed, weather - especially wind, ie which way she will list - perhaps the list will lift the hole out the water - thus stopping water ingress and preventing the ship from sinking!!

Give the programmers a break to correct the handling characteristics before we get on with the Holywood stunts.......

Steve
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Ship handling is more of an art than science

saken41

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Re: i want a answer!
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2007, 21:57:30 »

The real sinking of a ship occurs in one of two ways - either very quick, ie under a minute, or very long. This depends on the damage, and the damage survivability of the vessel in question. Modern vessels are built in watertight sections, thus you can puncture 2 of these sections for example and the ship will remain afloat. This is known as Damage Stability and the effects of it can be worked out.

For a ferry this is usually the spaces from forward to aft, perhaps 7 in all (for a 200m ferry) and then the engine room is usually a larger space and thus holing the engine room will cause problems - infact lots of problems. Plus a collision bulkhead is at the forward end of all ships - a kind of crumple zone like cars, this is usually the foc'sle which is just a ballast tank/store.

For a true vessel to sink you would need to gouge a huge hole in the ship, you are talking 50 metres plus.

The other way for a vessel to sink is from water ingress - not due to a damage in the hull, but due to the vessel not being watertight, or hatches breaking. The Derbyshire sank because her hatches gave way under the huge waves. The Braer off scotland - you know what caused this to sink/ground? A 200,000T tanker? Someone forgot to lash down some small pipes, these rolled about in the storm, smashing the vents off the fuel pipes, water got into the fuel, engine stops - she's aground!!

Sinking of ships is very hard to program, the same ship will sink 20 different ways depending on how she was holed, weather - especially wind, ie which way she will list - perhaps the list will lift the hole out the water - thus stopping water ingress and preventing the ship from sinking!!

Give the programmers a break to correct the handling characteristics before we get on with the Holywood stunts.......

Steve

I agree :), I have all time in the world to wait for the sinking feature :). Yes, I can imagine how difficult programming is :o.
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groennegaard

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Re: i want a answer!
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2007, 22:25:30 »

Thanks Steve, for the excellent explanation.  :)

Many people are not aware of how difficult it actually is to sink, and I guess most of us would rather have a realistic simulator than a stunt game.

Regards
groennegaard
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Captain Rhys

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Re: i want a answer!
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2007, 23:54:05 »

You hvee to damge the hull below the wataline to sink teh ship soo it is farily hard to snk a shp
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Regards,
           Rhys

Mr Robville

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Re: i want a answer!
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2007, 09:48:17 »

my questions were actualy based on when the patch is released, i know that you a not able yet to sink your ship ;)
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shamen20

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Re: i want a answer!
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2007, 14:51:52 »

as ppl have already discussed ships are designed NOT to sink , smaller vessels are more liable to taking on water than larger vessels , but even very small vessels have inbuilt safeguards like tanks built into the hull filled with polystyrene blocks that can never fill with water ( i speak through experience) , larger vessels have watertight compartments that prevent flooding.
Under the new maritime law ( now additionally covering inland vessels) ALL vessels over a certain sixe , about 30ft , have to , by maritime law , include watertight sections. the fleet of boats i work on have to have every section sealed so any damage to the hull in one section cannot lead to the loss of the vessel as the leak would only flood one section. this does not prevent ppl making human errors (deliberate or not) such as accidentally leaving seacocks open and flooding sections of a vessel. this type of incident does however take time ( in 5 years we have had several incidences of seacocks being left open during maintenance but have yet to have a vessel have more than one foot of water on the lower deck after a 24 hour period.

boats and ships have BILGE ALARMS that would notify the skipper within minutes of any ingress of water , no matter how caused, and the skipper could either pump out the bilge or head for the shallows to ground the vessel to prevent total loss. There are numerous occasions in the past where vessels have been holed and deliberately grounded to prevent sinking and allow salvage or rescue of cargo or passengers .
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Maelmoor

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Re: i want a answer!
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2007, 15:01:30 »

Why are people so keen about this? I don't care if you can sink your ship or not, I have bought the game to steer the ships, not to sink them, so I rather see they spend time on making the game better, not by adding some "omg this is cool" effects.
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Captain Spencer

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Re: i want a answer!
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2007, 17:07:29 »

Why are people so keen about this? I don't care if you can sink your ship or not, I have bought the game to steer the ships, not to sink them, so I rather see they spend time on making the game better, not by adding some "omg this is cool" effects.

I see what you mean by this Maelmoor, however, being a simulator this game should simulate sinking of ships. It wouldn't be very real if you couldn't sink a ship now would it. I do think though that in order to sink a ship as said above it should be very hard.
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Ridders

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Re: i want a answer!
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2007, 13:34:13 »

a ship simulator game always has to have the most obvious risks that are included when sailing (such as been portholed) as my darling russel has told me many times before!
« Last Edit: August 30, 2007, 20:18:48 by Ridders »
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Mr Robville

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Re: i want a answer!
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2007, 16:52:08 »

Why are people so keen about this? I don't care if you can sink your ship or not, I have bought the game to steer the ships, not to sink them, so I rather see they spend time on making the game better, not by adding some "omg this is cool" effects.

don't you think it is awsome?

like:
you start on a risky mission to load some containers and then move them along the atlantic, but if you don't make it
your ship sinks, and you have to watch the last moments of everything on board.

there is no game exept where you can stay onboard while a ship sinks.
some people like me love things like that.
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