Topic: Disappointed Sailor... (Read 6246 times)

Frascati · « **on:** August 16, 2007, 09:58:29 »

Having bought SS2006 (and found it wanting, but promising ) I eagerly awaited the improvements of SS2008. And truth be told many are there... the amazing sea... the weather... damage...

But is it now a Ship Simulation? Not quite yet...

Thought I'd try taking the pilot out to the container ship in the Solent...

OK in the 'simulator'... First the engine... no on-off switch (let alone choke, mixture etc) ... simulation I think not...

Enough Fuel? Not modelled...

OK lets set off... communications, radar ... Not modelled...

(OK so you can just about see other boats on the chart 'radar' ... a nasty gameplay cludge)

Casting off, the river is very empty... that's ok as I didn't fancy playing 'frogger' today, with AI vessels where the simulated captains are in the head and the ships on auto pilot... rules of the sea... forget them... go where you please, but look out... you can sink now! ( NEW!... boats have always had that built in feature )...

simulation again I think not...

Suddenly the screen goes blank... I must have blacked out, cause now I'm in the channel with my destination in sight...and the sea conditions have instantly changed for the worse... it seems the 'simulation' cannot even handle a journey from A to B properly with weather and sea condition transitions...

At the end of this I get told the 'fastest time'... That's not what a ship simulator is about... This product has a serious identity crisis if people still think that 'simulator' people want to compare hiscores ( but maybe that's the market they're after... in which case call it something different... 'Ship Scramble' or something similar )

I give up... I'll maybe buy the 4th or 5th iteration of Ship Simulator (2012?) but only if it's more of a simulator and the companies still in business... ( A policy which worked very well with EA Sports Tiger Woods by the way )... but for now I'll give em a miss...

Bottman · « **Reply #1 on:** August 16, 2007, 11:46:20 »

Hi Frascati,

thanks for your comments! Well, they are not new at all, but we take care to improve the game according to the users comments. To be honest, the lack of developing time was the main reason for some insufficient things you have mentioned. So there will be a patch soon, changing a lot of your points into a much better way. E. g. engine shut on/off, radar, more AI, improved ship dynamics, improved bridge equipment...

There are a lot of users, asking for a score based game. I don't like it and ignore that, but others love to play in a kind of competition mode. Maybe we find another high score system some times, but than we may have a more economic than a seafarers simulation.

Hold the line and wait until the patch will come, it's worth it!

Regards

Shipaddict · « **Reply #2 on:** August 16, 2007, 20:40:25 »

Yes hold fire before you go critiscing it all. As we keep saying shipsim is only TWO YEARS OLD! Go to VS for posh navigation. But you'll miss out on the good graphics.

Wetwarev7 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 16, 2007, 20:58:05 »

I agree with the OP that there isn't much actual simulation yet, but I think it's a good start and has a lot of potential. The main reason I bought SS08 was to keep the company interested in developing this further.

There is a real lack of ship simulation in general. I can only think of three, including this one. It is a niche market, and considering I would in fact pay more than $50 bucks for a real ship sim, I don't really have a problem buying a few versons that are not yet up to 'my' idea of what a ship simulator should do. I keep an eye on what the new versions will feature, and as long as they keep getting closer towards the real thing, I'll keep buying them.

That being said, when I see the features take a turn towards being just a 'game', I dump it and go look for another company that wants my money to make a real sim.

Stuart2007 · « **Reply #4 on:** August 16, 2007, 22:43:11 »

Quote from: Frascati on August 16, 2007, 09:58:29

OK in the 'simulator'... First the engine... no on-off switch (let alone choke, mixture etc) ... simulation I think not...

Choke? Do you have a choke on a marine diesel, 'cos (sic) you don't on a road diesel...

Stu

Frascati · « **Reply #5 on:** August 17, 2007, 07:52:02 »

Quote from: Stuart2007 on August 16, 2007, 22:43:11

Choke? Do you have a choke on a marine diesel, 'cos (sic) you don't on a road diesel...

Stu

Google... search... "+marine +petrol +engine"

Bottman · « **Reply #6 on:** August 17, 2007, 08:42:13 »

Well, there is none!

Halmex · « **Reply #7 on:** August 17, 2007, 13:21:11 »

i dont belive on the patch

Captain Spencer · « **Reply #8 on:** August 17, 2007, 13:50:28 »

Quote from: Halmex on August 17, 2007, 13:21:11

i dont belive on the patch

What do you mean by this? The patch will come out and the development team think it will be worth it but you just have to wait.

With the OP comments, I agree with you on some aspects you have mentioned, but don't forget a game or sim like this takes a looong time to build. I am no expert but know enough to say that things like ship and water dynamics take a lot of time in itself. Even the weather and environments take along time to create and configure. Then the dev team have to test it for bugs. This process can take along time.

However some aspects of the game do need to be bought up to scratch such as advanced bridge controls, navigation equipment, ability to control other aspects of ships such as lights and cargo doors ect.

If VSTEP continue to develop the game year after year you will eventually have a very detailed and realistic 'simulator' and I am going to continue to support them as I find it all very interesting. I sure hope they continue to develop the game and not just 'leave it to die' like some companies do.

Looking forward to the patch in two weeks and future version of the game / sim..

Frascati · « **Reply #9 on:** August 17, 2007, 14:33:34 »

Quote from: CaptainSpencer on August 17, 2007, 13:50:28

If VSTEP continue to develop the game year after year you will eventually have a very detailed and realistic 'simulator' and I am going to continue to support them as I find it all very interesting. I sure hope they continue to develop the game and not just 'leave it to die' like some companies do.

Looking forward to the patch...

However IMO the windows for such development of games over a number of iterations is getting shorter every year with the increasing speed in the advances of technology. Some time (ie before arriving at this 'ideal' simulator) the limitations of the original design and platform will mean a major change. You have to start again to be able to avail yourself of the new situation. This is revolution rather than evolution. If you don't do it yourself then another company will come in, cherry pick the best features from your product and starting from scratch beat you at your own game.

Again IMO, if you take the view that time is short, and this version of ship simulator will be at some time (sooner rather than later) dropped, what is the most that can be got out of it... the genre is new and ill defined... it is also vast... How can enough information be gained as to what really needs to go into an 'ideal' ship simulator. It took many years and attempts to do this with flight simulators. My advice would be... open it up to 3rd parties... let them put in the money, make the mistakes, and so best use the limited time by having people work in parallel. At the end take what is best and what works and build a new product around it.

JHB · « **Reply #10 on:** August 17, 2007, 14:42:00 »

Are you an investor pal? Or just some big business man?

Where are all these 3rd parties you are talking about? Go ahead and buy you a simulator if you got so much money... because they cost millions! And it looks to me that you expect Ship Simulator to be on that level as professional simulators for educating real crew...

I wonder if you know what you are talking about...?

Shipaddict · « **Reply #11 on:** August 17, 2007, 14:42:02 »

Frascati: I'm sorry if I was a bit harsh in my earlier post after Bottman. I was in a bad mood.

Otherwise, welcome to the forum!

Kind Regards,

Shipaddict

Captain Spencer · « **Reply #12 on:** August 17, 2007, 15:18:07 »

Quote from: JHB on August 17, 2007, 14:42:00

Are you an investor pal? Or just some big business man?
Where are all these 3rd parties you are talking about? Go ahead and buy you a simulator if you got so much money... because they cost millions! And it looks to me that you expect Ship Simulator to be on that level as professional simulators for educating real crew...

I wonder if you know what you are talking about...?

Who did you say this to? Me or Frascati ??

Ship Sim · « **Reply #13 on:** August 17, 2007, 15:22:54 »

Quote from: Shipaddict on August 16, 2007, 20:40:25

Yes hold fire before you go critiscing it all. As we keep saying shipsim is only TWO YEARS OLD! Go to VS for posh navigation. But you'll miss out on the good graphics.

Vs has the most FAKE ship handeling ever. I turnt a container ship around is less than a min.

But it is ok.

JHB · « **Reply #14 on:** August 17, 2007, 15:53:55 »

Quote from: CaptainSpencer on August 17, 2007, 15:18:07

Who did you say this to? Me or Frascati ??

Mr Frascati...

Captain Spencer · « **Reply #15 on:** August 17, 2007, 16:05:57 »

Quote from: JHB on August 17, 2007, 15:53:55

Mr Frascati...

Ohh ok

Shipaddict · « **Reply #16 on:** August 17, 2007, 16:06:56 »

Quote from: Ship Sim on August 17, 2007, 15:22:54

Vs has the most FAKE ship handeling ever. I turnt a container ship around is less than a min. But it is ok.

Really? I don't use my VS offen...

Frascati · « **Reply #17 on:** August 17, 2007, 16:10:30 »

Quote from: JHB on August 17, 2007, 14:42:00

Are you an investor pal? Or just some big business man?
Where are all these 3rd parties you are talking about? Go ahead and buy you a simulator if you got so much money... because they cost millions! And it looks to me that you expect Ship Simulator to be on that level as professional simulators for educating real crew...

I wonder if you know what you are talking about...?

What's your problem... Do you have to resort to rudeness when someone says something you disagree with?

Poncho · « **Reply #18 on:** August 17, 2007, 18:15:18 »

Dude,

I think that isnt a polite why to present yourself in here!!
Just my advice!

Things can be said in a better way, don't you think so?

Stuart2007 · « **Reply #19 on:** August 17, 2007, 22:14:19 »

Quote from: JHB on August 17, 2007, 14:42:00

Are you an investor pal? Or just some big business man?
Where are all these 3rd parties you are talking about? Go ahead and buy you a simulator if you got so much money... because they cost millions! And it looks to me that you expect Ship Simulator to be on that level as professional simulators for educating real crew...

I wonder if you know what you are talking about...?

Also, don't quote me on this. But it is possible that Vstep doesn't actually want to give its rights away to third parties. Because that is effectively what they would be doing.

I have my own business and regularly get other companies looking to invest- my answer is *** 'no thanks'. If the value of the investment is too high, then effectively it becomes someone elses business. Then any profit becomes divided by XX number of people.

Stu

PHNMP · « **Reply #20 on:** August 18, 2007, 08:42:13 »

Flight simulator started on two diskettes, now, many years later, it takes two DvD's and some 15 gigabyte of space and still has inconsistencies. However, there is certain room for approvement, rates of turn do not match the actual turning of the ship. Manoeuvring characteristics of the bigger ships are incorrect. Response of ships with two propellors and a bowtruster is incorrect. RPM 5000 is none existing. Heading into wind Beaufort 8, smoke is still going forward, and a lot more.

Still, I like the program and find it not too expensive. Suggest to advise the development team what is not good and perhaps what it should be, rather then tearing the program apart.

PHNMP
Master mariner

Captain Spencer · « **Reply #21 on:** August 18, 2007, 13:34:37 »

Quote from: PHNMP on August 18, 2007, 08:42:13

Flight simulator started on two diskettes, now, many years later, it takes two DvD's and some 15 gigabyte of space and still has inconsistencies. However, there is certain room for approvement, rates of turn do not match the actual turning of the ship. Manoeuvring characteristics of the bigger ships are incorrect. Response of ships with two propellors and a bowtruster is incorrect. RPM 5000 is none existing. Heading into wind Beaufort 8, smoke is still going forward, and a lot more.

Still, I like the program and find it not too expensive. Suggest to advise the development team what is not good and perhaps what it should be, rather then tearing the program apart.

PHNMP
Master mariner

Very well said, I'm with you on that one

William Bensch · « **Reply #22 on:** August 18, 2007, 13:45:35 »

Quote from: CaptainSpencer on August 18, 2007, 13:34:37

Very well said, I'm with you on that one

Idem Dito.

Author Topic: Disappointed Sailor... (Read 6246 times)

Ship Sim