Hello Guest September 19, 2024, 17:19:56 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: We desperately need incremental keyboard control of speed & direction  (Read 4758 times)

maxand

  • Forum member
  • Posts: 13

After having played train sims, I just can't get over how crude the keyboard controls for throttle and rudder are in SS2006-2008.

Where is there a boat in real life with spring-operated throttle and rudder? Have you ever been taught in real life that the smoothest way to control a boat's speed is to jam the throttle wide open for 3 seconds then shut it or let it go hoping it will spring back? or to push the rudder all the way to one side then let it go? ROFL.

[BIG SNIP after reading other's responses]

This issue has been raised before:
http://www.shipsim.com/ShipSimForum/index.php/topic,894.msg9181.html

I'd like to know how others compensate for it. My only remedy is to use bursts of rudder (L/R arrow keys) and gluing the mouse cursor to the throttle, where small power changes are more important. (Furthermore, whenever I use the cursor keys for throttle changes, I wince every time I hear the engine revving up to full power and then cutting off, thinking of the repair bill. That's no way to treat a ship!) Unfortunately, using the mouse for throttle doesn't give me enough time to use it for other useful things, such as R-click-dragging to look around for that ocean liner that's about to slice me in half. Fortunately, ships move more slowly than trains or planes. Try using SS2008's control system in a train sim or plane sim!!

(ADDED LATER)

Well, I apologise for ranting like this now that others below have pointed out that enabling "Precision Steering" in Options allows me incremental control over throttle and rudder. However:

 - I mistakenly thought Precision Steering meant using R shift with the cursor (arrow) keys to retain the current setting (I bet I'm not the first to think this way);
p16
Cursor key plus Shift key
To set the engine throttle or the rudders in a fixed position, instead of letting them get back to neutral position when you let go of the cursor keys, you can use the Shift key in combination with the cursor keys.


- "Precision Steering" does not appear in the main text in the SS2008 manual but only as a passing reference in the image description on p19:
The option “Precision steering” allows you to set the rudders and engine speed in small increments, rather than at maximum value.

- Heads wiser than mine decided to disable Precision Steering by default. What kind of boat is the beginner likely to start off with? The smaller type.

- I was searching for some way of controlling power precisely, not steering. Looking at this from a n00b's viewpoint, "Precision Steering" is poorly named. It should be retitled "Precision Keyboard Control" or something like that. Then more n00bs would find it and play with SS for longer instead of chucking it in the bin because they are irritated by jerky steering and speed (kids who don't read the fine print).
« Last Edit: August 30, 2008, 11:21:52 by maxand »
Logged

mvsmith

  • Guest

You do have incremental control of both rudder and power with the arrow keys, if you bother to learn how, instead of going into the “instant rant” mode.
Logged

saltydog

  • Forum member
  • Posts: 7828

Just what I was thinking Marty..I use the keyboard to control Bugsier and Red Eagle, and have never had any trouble with small adjustments to speed or steering..I have precision steering on for the larger ships. For the smaller (faster) boats I prefer ps off..
Logged

maxand

  • Forum member
  • Posts: 13

@ mvsmith, all I found in the SS2008 manual (p16) was:

Cursor keys up/down
More/less throttle on the engine controls (both engine simultaneously). With the smaller ships, the engine control returns back to neutral automatically. With the larger ships, the engine control stays in position until you “push” it back with the mouse or the keys.

Cursor keys left/right
Steer left or right. With the smaller ships, the steering returns back to neutral automatically. With the larger ships, the steering stays in position until you steer back with the mouse or the keys.

Cursor key plus Shift key
To set the engine throttle or the rudders in a fixed position, instead of letting them get back to neutral position when you let go of the cursor keys, you can use the Shift key in combination with the cursor keys.

It seems you're referring to larger ships, while I'm referring to smaller ones (which I find more fun).
Small fast boats need incremental power and steering change just as much as larger ones.
Ok, I admit I overlooked larger ships in my initial post. But it still has to be asked, why isn't incremental control available to all vessels, not just the biggies?

If I've overlooked some other method, please explain how I can fractionally increase and decrease power and rudder for small boats and ships, on the keyboard, with only one hand (no mouse, joystick or other controller).
« Last Edit: August 30, 2008, 08:50:03 by maxand »
Logged

Finn700

  • Forum member
  • Posts: 174

Go to Options->Controls and check the "Precision steering"-box, this eliminates the 'spring'-effect and gives you incremental control also in smaller ships.
Controls aren't too precise after that either but at least you can manouver using one hand only.
Logged

saltydog

  • Forum member
  • Posts: 7828

Ask a joystick (with throttle control) for your next birthday.. ;D
Logged

Denis

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1040

The so-called "Precision" (laugh) steering, requiring two hands, one on the cursor keys and another on the R Shift key, is equally ridiculous. Sorry, i don't have 3 hands (one for cursor keys, one for R shift key, one for mouse.) The mouse has enough to do without being required for small changes to power and rudder. Why on earth don't the arrow keys work incrementally (e.g., each tap changes the value 10% instead of 100%).
[...]
Likewise, neighboring keys could be converted to jump keys, e.g., W, X, A, D correspond to  cursor keys but are incremental, while E, C, Q, Z are jump keys, i.e., do what the cursor keys do right now, which is all or nothing. There should also be an independent centring (neutral position) key, e.g., S on the keyboard, which centers the position, much like double-clicking achieves with the mouse.

I can't remember whether R shift key can be reconfigured to L shift key, but don't think this is possible. One ends up crossing hands, like a concert pianist.
[...]
I'd like to know how others compensate for it. My only remedy is to use bursts of rudder (L/R arrow keys) and gluing the mouse cursor to the throttle, where small power changes are more important. (Furthermore, whenever I use the cursor keys for throttle changes, I wince every time I hear the engine revving up to full power and then cutting off, thinking of the repair bill. That's no way to treat a ship!) Unfortunately, using the mouse for throttle doesn't give me enough time to use it for other useful things, such as R-click-dragging to look around for that ocean liner that's about to slice me in half. Fortunately, ships move more slowly than trains or planes. Try using SS2008's control system in a train sim or plane sim!!

I suggest that 2 sets of keyboard profiles be incorporated, the original set for those who are used to the current configuration, and a new set using incremental changes to make life easier for those of us who have tasted this before.

(Added after mvsmith's comment below)
Larger vessels do have incremental control. This post refers to smaller boats, in which IMO incremental control is just as important.


Hi maxand.

You exactly described what the "Precision Steering" box does when you check it. You didn't need to write a so precise message, everything you asked for is already included in the game. We're not here talking about the "temporary" precision steering mode that you activate when using R shift, but about the global precision steering mode you enable in the option>controls menu.

When you enable this mode (laugh), with one hand you can set you throttle and rudder angle at will, without the spring effect you're talking about. And then arrow keys (or whatever other keey you might have configured) work incrementally (e.g., each tape changes the value (5% or so, instead of 100%). And when you enable this mode, you don't even void your warranty neither, isn't life beautiful ?!

The other features you asked for (about changing key layouts) are available too, as you can assign whatever key you want to whatever function you want, even the "reset rudder1 to neutral", "reset rudder2 to neutral", "reset engine1 to neutral" and "reset engine2 to neutral" functions exist.

Oh, and by the way, this "precision steering" option is available whatever the ship, small or big. And this option actually  is described in the manual, page 19, section Controls : "The option “Precision steering” allows you to set the rudders and engine speed in small increments, rather than at maximum value."

Did you notice the post you're refering to is more than one year old ? I'm not sure about that, can't remember, but it's possible that the permanent precision steering mode wasn't available at that time, and has been added since then with an update.

Maybe you didn't read the manual, or didn't update your version of the game. In either case, I find it abusive to complain about so called missing features with such a condescending manner !

Anyway, welcome on this forum, just please try to look by yourself before complaining  ;) !

« Last Edit: August 30, 2008, 09:56:08 by Denis »
Logged

maxand

  • Forum member
  • Posts: 13

Ok, ok, thanks for pointing this out.
I edited my original post heavily once I realized it was actually there. One could argue that Precision Steering (let's rename it Precision Control) should be much more prominent in the manual and also enabled by default. Have to admit, having it certainly makes the sim perform a lot more pleasantly.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2008, 11:23:50 by maxand »
Logged

Finn700

  • Forum member
  • Posts: 174

What the keyboard steering really lacks is the numerical output what you get if you use the controls with your mouse, specially with ships which have totally round steering wheel, you simply can't say where you're going.
Logged

saltydog

  • Forum member
  • Posts: 7828

Yes Finn, also you can't get more than 360 degree turn with keyboard (azipod, VS), which you can with mouse.. :)
Logged

maxand

  • Forum member
  • Posts: 13

@Finn700 & saltydog, surely this wouldn't be a problem in most cases? One can normally see where one's going, use a distant object as a reference point, and know roughly how many degrees the boat has turned. The number of short taps on the L/R arrow keys (with Precision Steering ON) should give one some idea of how far the wheel has been turned, but the only measure of importance to me is the present rate of turn which for me would be a "suck it and see" approach.

When one banks in an airplane by rotating the yoke, does one take the angle of the yoke into account? No. What matters is the actual degree of bank achieved, showing on the instruments. Similarly with heading changes, I guess, not being a mariner.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2008, 13:22:32 by maxand »
Logged

Finn700

  • Forum member
  • Posts: 174

Try turning the wheel during night/in fog or in open sea. no fixed points there. :)
And ofcourse it matters when you look the control and estimate that you have about 20-50% power atm, when you could have the information like '28%' clearly indicated.
Logged

ekto

  • Forum member
  • Posts: 59

You can adjust what is visible in the upper panel. Take the compas thingy and cornidates off, so that the rudder angle and RPM fits to the screen.
Logged

saltydog

  • Forum member
  • Posts: 7828

It isn't a problem maxand, I never use the mouse.. If necessary I turn on the HUD (information panel)
And of course Titanic has a "steerometer".. ;)
« Last Edit: August 30, 2008, 14:35:06 by saltydog »
Logged

Denis

  • Global Moderator
  • Posts: 1040

Ok, ok, thanks for pointing this out.
I edited my original post heavily once I realized it was actually there. One could argue that Precision Steering (let's rename it Precision Control) should be much more prominent in the manual and also enabled by default. Have to admit, having it certainly makes the sim perform a lot more pleasantly.

Hi maxand ! I'm happy to read that you find now the sim pleasant ! I agree with your last remarks (precision 'steering' might have been called better, and it could have been more readable in the manual - but that's probably because this feature has been added later).

It's only the second release of ship sim, some things have to be improved and will certainly be with the next versions ! Anyway, as it is, with multiplayer and so on, it's already very enjoyable !!

kind regards,

denis
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
 
 


SMF 2.0.14 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines