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Author Topic: Ship Simulator - Ship Importing Method  (Read 3873 times)

Lighthouse

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Ship Simulator - Ship Importing Method
« on: October 20, 2007, 06:56:40 »

Hi everyone, been away working on a ship design for Active Projects lately so haven't been on for awhile.

Anyway, I've seen of this forum a topic about a ship editor, and how many people want a ship editor included in the game.

I am typing this topic today to purpose to the developers of the game to create a ship editor. Now firstly before haven a go at me, i'll let you know that I am aware that one of the developers has said on a similar forum that it will take a while to create so there not going to attempt it.

Well can I just say, look at Virtial Sailer! You can create ships in 3D Studio, sketchup and other 3D design software and convert the file to a Cfg file that will work in the game, Virtial Sailer.

Now I'm going to assume that there is going to be some debate about if the editor should it be created. For such reasons like, people posting poorly designed ships or inproper ship dynamics onto the forum. Basiclly it would be like the misson forum. If you don't like a mission, don't dowloaded it, Simple!

I'm also going to assume that there is going issues with ship graphics, like the comments I've seen about VS. Programs such as sketchup can create ships but not to great detail, so what, sketchup is a basic graphics program that all user of ship sim can dowload to create their own ships. For more advanced users 3D Studio Max will create better looking ships but us novices aren't giving in excess of $3,000 to create ships by using 3DSM. If you look at ships on the VS website the majority of them are created in Sketchup, and to be honest, they look great!

Now, To be able to import ships you'll need to follow a certain procedure. Please refer to the attachment I have attached to this post on how to do this.

All we need is the developers to create a basic program like VS to be able to import ships. Once done us SS users can go about our way at creating ships.

Thanks for reading,

Bon Voyage,

Lighthouse 

Edited by DJM - File attachment removed, it may cause confusion with Vstep's policy regarding vessel creation.  The file was intended as instructions for another simulator, not Ship SimulatorTM.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2007, 12:42:45 by [RWP]DJM »
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The lighthouse, added in the 1820s to aid navigation for vessels using the deep water channels. It is still in use today and plays a central role in the navigational system for ships entering coastal Harbours.

mvsmith

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Re: Ship Simulator - Ship Importing Method
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2007, 08:17:21 »

Lighthouse,
From what we heard from VSTEP on this forum, it appears that they see additional ships and environments as a continuing source of income. It’s their company, and I can’t argue with that from a business prospective.
I, myself, feel that the amount of resources needed to do a good job with an environment—including, in some cases, special vessels peculiar to that environment, justifies selling it at a price that would help defray development cost. One problem with that is, unlike ships which have a universal demand, many environments have only a limited local demand. For instance, I might be the only one on the planet with an interest in Depoe Bay and its Coast Guard Station.

If you count the number of requests for different ships and environments on the forum, it is apparent that only a small fraction of them can be produced by VSTEP in the next year. It is inevitable that third parties will step in.

From what I hear from groups working on that, adding ships and environments to the SS engine is not as simple as it is in Trainz. Some groups are located in India and other Asian countries where, presumably intellectual property rights are taken less seriously. Optimists are talking about early next year, but don’t expect them to advertise on this forum.


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JHB

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Re: Ship Simulator - Ship Importing Method
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2007, 09:10:24 »

Sounds more like a way to make ships made for Virtual Sailor work in Ship Simulator or ships made for Ship Simulator work in Virtual Sailor.
When it comes to ship dynamics those parameters used by Virtual Sailor control only a few small things, and is basically not covering the whole area of ship dynamics/ship stability. And if X-files are going to be readable by anyone then we have a major problem with those who like to steal others 3D model and sell it on Turbosquid or manipulate/modify the 3D model.
X-files are a very non-protected file format. The author of the 3D model should have the full right to protect the 3D model from any manipulation or editing which means that the 3D model have to be encrypted so you cannot open it in a 3D editor. There is too much copyright infringement in this computer world where original work is getting manipulated, stolen, modified or even sold behind the original authors back.

Quote
Now I'm going to assume that there is going to be some debate about if the editor should it be created. For such reasons like, people posting poorly designed ships or inproper ship dynamics onto the forum.

Yeah, 50% of them made without shaded maps with a bridge that looks half-completed, where many of them contain hidden faces from Sketchup which drag down the game performance. Many great ship models indeed but many of them cud be made far better. But it looks to me that there is more a race about making as many boat models instead of spending a great amount of time to make a really good hand-work and to add textures. I support VSTEP if they want to have some sort of quality control. Too many ship models made for Virtual Sailor is made by “wannabes” and “newbies” that just have to release their first model without even thinking about training themselves to get to a level where you really can make a good looking ship model. I started with Jewel of the Seas as my first attempt to create a ship model for Virtual Sailor. I didn’t manage it. After months of learning, practicing and training I suddenly created Color Fantasy, firstly in Gmax and then in 3ds Max. So instead of releasing a lot of crapping ship models I took the time to learn the basics of using Editable Polygon in 3ds Max (because 3D models are made up by polygons and many other elements too).
Why people use Sketchup? I think it’s because it’s so simple maybe all too simple. But I don’t call it a tool for creating computer graphics at professional level. It’s a 3D editor but is missing many things that doesn’t makes it “ideal” for making computer graphics. Of course you can make the most stunning and most advanced 3D model ever in Sketchup and render it with all kinds of effects. But these effects are not effects you find in a game engine. You have to implement them into the texture. So then you eventually need a second tool that can produce this for you.
I’m afraid that we will end up with a huge database of add-ons which will hardly not be used at all simply because the ship model have a big lack of graphical quality and is missing details that is essential for a Ship Simulator ship. You don’t find many ships for Virtual Sailor that has the same type of graphics as Ship Simulator.

VSTEP have already made guidelines for what a ship model need to get into the game and I hope that this guideline will stay as it is and don’t get so simplified that we see poor ship models in this game which will stay poor for ever simply because the author don’t make a second model just because he was a “wannabe” and just made something and disappeared.
I have been doing this stuff now in maybe 3 or 4 years. I just say one word: “Hard work”. There are no shortcuts you can take. The way to become better is to learn, fail and experimenting.

Computer graphics is challenging and fun but it takes time to get there. Just ask professionals that do commercial projects for customers etc, or even game artists, illustrators etc.

Sorry for challenging you on this topic… I just know a lot about this and have been using game Virtual Sailor since the 6.5 version. I think people can speak for themselves if they want to see realistic ship models or ship models where the computer graphics goes 5 years backwards. :P

Ship Simulator don’t need more or better graphics. Ship Simulator need better simulation. The graphics is already excellent. My last and final word in this crazy chapter number 1011. :D :P
« Last Edit: October 20, 2007, 09:15:59 by JHB »
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Lighthouse

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Re: Ship Simulator - Ship Importing Method
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2007, 10:48:32 »

Hi all,

Sorry for challenging you on this topic
Hey... Your not challenging me on this topic, your just having your say which is GREAT!
Yeah, 50% of them made without shaded maps with a bridge that looks half-completed, where many of them contain hidden faces from Sketchup which drag down the game performance. Many great ship models indeed but many of them cud be made far better. But it looks to me that there is more a race about making as many boat models instead of spending a great amount of time to make a really good hand-work and to add textures. I support VSTEP if they want to have some sort of quality control.

I too support VSTEP's idea for some sort of quality control but if you were to refer back to my origional post "
...Basiclly it would be like the misson forum. If you don't like a mission, don't dowloaded it, Simple!
There ya have it, if you don't like the ship, Don't download it. It's just plan simple!
Sounds more like a way to make ships made for Virtual Sailor work in Ship Simulator or ships made for Ship Simulator work in Virtual Sailor.
Well, yes basiclly becasue that's what I'm refering to. Why can't VSTEP use the same cfg file format as VS? Now don't get started on the Quality control idea because I understand that but hey, you've got to start out somewhere when it comes to new software.

What I trying to say JHB is that if VSTEP were to release as Ship editor that if would start of simple due to time consumption. As they learn new ways to add custom ships the software will improve. Something VS haven't done I can assure you.

Bon Voyage,

Lighthouse
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The lighthouse, added in the 1820s to aid navigation for vessels using the deep water channels. It is still in use today and plays a central role in the navigational system for ships entering coastal Harbours.

mvsmith

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Re: Ship Simulator - Ship Importing Method
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2007, 16:24:27 »

The idea of allowing ships of whatever quality on this forum and leaving it up to people whether to down load them is neither practical nor desirable. Even on the Trainz DLS, submissions are screened before they are made available. This would place an added burden on VSTEP.
Graphic quality is only one consideration. Ships interact with the environment in a much more complicated way than do trains.

If ships are offered by a third party on their own site, or preferably a means for the individual to make and use ships in his personal copy of SS is developed by a third party, then VSTEP is absolved of any responsibility for dealing with problems.

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Lighthouse

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Re: Ship Simulator - Ship Importing Method
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2007, 02:47:56 »

Edited by DJM - File attachment removed, it may cause confusion with Vstep's policy regarding vessel creation.  The file was intended as instructions for another simulator, not Ship SimulatorTM.

Hi, DJM.

I understand why ya removed the attachment but I was using it to re-enforce my propersition. Couldn't VSTEP use the same format style as VS. I understand that ships in Ship Simulator are created diffrently but if a ship editor were to be release us users could use this simple method for importing ships. It's way simpler than the whole process VSTEP go through with their ships.

The idea of allowing ships of whatever quality on this forum and leaving it up to people whether to down load them is neither practical nor desirable. Even on the Trainz DLS, submissions are screened before they are made available. This would place an added burden on VSTEP.
Graphic quality is only one consideration. Ships interact with the environment in a much more complicated way than do trains.

If ships are offered by a third party on their own site, or preferably a means for the individual to make and use ships in his personal copy of SS is developed by a third party, then VSTEP is absolved of any responsibility for dealing with problems.


Hi Mvsmith,

I also understand by what ya mean with the process of if ya don'l like it, don't download it. When it comes to submissions of ships VSTEP won't have to vertify them, it could be a job for the GM's. Just take a look at www.modthesims2.com . Now I now it has nothing to do with SS but when ya sumbit a Download EA games doesn't vertify it, the Global Moderators of the site do. So if ship editor was to be created the GM's of the SS website could check the submissions, test them in the game and add them to the download section. People who wish to have their ships submited should follow a guideline of quality control like what's been said on this topic with regards to hidden objects and so on. If the GM's find an error with the design or model they'll PM the creator to fix the design or else the model will be rejected.

Basiclly this is what I've been trying to say all along,

Bon Voyage,

Lighthouse.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2007, 02:55:14 by Lighthouse »
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The lighthouse, added in the 1820s to aid navigation for vessels using the deep water channels. It is still in use today and plays a central role in the navigational system for ships entering coastal Harbours.

[RWP]DJM

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Re: Ship Simulator - Ship Importing Method
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2007, 09:59:29 »

Hi, DJM.

I understand why ya removed the attachment but I was using it to re-enforce my propersition. Couldn't VSTEP use the same format style as VS. I understand that ships in Ship Simulator are created diffrently but if a ship editor were to be release us users could use this simple method for importing ships. It's way simpler than the whole process VSTEP go through with their ships.

Hiya Lighthouse :)

I won't pretend to understand the exact coding required for Ship Simulator, as I haven't been involved in computer programming since the 1980's ;)

I do understand though, that the 2 games are completely different, not only in ship design, but structure, look & feel, and a lot of other areas.  Now whether the method you are suggesting could be applied to Ship Simulator, is something that only the Development team at Vstep would know, but I suspect that it's not that simple ;)

Regards.

DJM.
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Stuart2007

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Re: Ship Simulator - Ship Importing Method
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2007, 11:05:21 »

I have been doing this stuff now in maybe 3 or 4 years. I just say one word: “Hard work”. There are no shortcuts you can take. The way to become better is to learn, fail and experimenting.

Sorry. That's two words  :o

Seriosly, I agree with you on that I was working on a model and re-started it maybe a dozen times before I got to the stage I was happy to show it to someone, but not publically. But at the same time, should people not be allowed to show off their new designs, even if they aren't top quality? I think if you are proposing that only models made by someone of your experience then a whole load of beginners will just give up and not bother trying to progress.

Surely there needs to be a little encouragement for them, but not the usual scenario that exists now. "See my new model here.." "Wow. It's great"... even when it's not. Constructive critcism. Remember that people can se the awful sketchup to get used to the principal of 3d modelling.

Stu

PS I spent 4 years doing 3d modelling using microstation. I know how hard it is to learn!
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Lighthouse

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Re: Ship Simulator - Ship Importing Method
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2007, 11:22:33 »

Hi DJM,

Thanks for understanding, oh btw, sorry for uploading the file attachment, like I said I was using it to reforce my idea. Sorry if I confussed anyone :'(

Bon Voyage,

Lighthouse
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The lighthouse, added in the 1820s to aid navigation for vessels using the deep water channels. It is still in use today and plays a central role in the navigational system for ships entering coastal Harbours.

[RWP]DJM

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Re: Ship Simulator - Ship Importing Method
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2007, 13:47:34 »

No problem Lighthouse, and no need to apologise :)

Regards.

DJM.
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