Special nature of crane ops and editing objects

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[redfishgtx]

Can someone please explain the "special"-ness of the crane and key elements needed to create a sucessfull mission op. (example missions w/crane ops would be appreciated for learning)
Can someone say how to "unlock" a mission, to be used for learning of certain ops like container loading unloading.
Can someone summarize (bullet points are fine for now) how to import an existing object, say another crane type, and then how to specify its articulation?
Is there a tool used for editing objects?
Sorry if these questions are old hat but I've not quite found what I'm looking for and existing subject matter responses are terse and not informative.
Thanks for your time,
Rob (redfishgtx)

[Wave Music]

Regarding the questions about the mission creation/examination, here're some tutorials:

http://www.shipsim.com/ShipSimForum/index.php/topic,2886.0.html

[redfishgtx]

nice reference material, thank you Sir, for my other questions is it feasible to articulate another crane type or is this a technical limitation of the software?
Thanks, Rob

[Wave Music]

You're welcome, Rob.
In SS08 there's only one type - container crane - as a player object that you can use in missions...   
No other cranes yet, unfortunately.

[mvsmith]

Hi Rob,

I’ve added the container crane instructions from INFO1 to the Missions Manual. That manual also contains some helpful information on playing missions that have the crane.
Thanks to WM for pointing you toward it.

Unfortunately, locked missions with the container crane cannot be unlocked by the given method because those missions cannot be saved from within the simulator.
If you can't find an example that is not locked, let me know. I'll either find or make one for you.

I’m sorry to add to your list of terse and not informative responses, but no.
You cannot import any third party objects into the game. There are quite a few topics that explain why.
You can, of course, add any ships or other enhancements available from the Shipyard, the Creators Forum, or from the ShipSim.com web site.

Regards,
Marty

[TerryRussell]

Keep your eyes open for lots more add-ons from the weekly Super Packs.

You may find that these will make up for the inability to import things into the game. I have quite a lot of new things coming along the conveyor belt.

[redfishgtx]

Thank you to all, much enlightening information. Much work with Vermaas and much success thanks to you guys.
The tutorial indicates the SHERPAS is crane capable as well, hopefully less draft :-)
Perhaps I'm missing it, but it's not in my collection that the mission editor sees, do I need to dl it from somewhere? Looked at the ship store and did not see it.
Many thanks to those taking the time to assist.
Happy thanksgiving to those in the states
Rob

[redfishgtx]

dumb user behind keyboard
Found Sherpa, if it was a snake I'd be in deep ca-ca
Rob

[mvsmith]

Hi Ron,

Loading containers aboard Sherpa with the crane can be a little tricky because it is an off-label use.
Basically, you place a crane waypoint on Sherpa but containers will fall through the deck unless you place them carefully and gently.

Regards,
Marty

[redfishgtx]

Enjoying experimenting with that on Sherpa Marty, and yes was puzzled  :doh:a bit the first time they went through the deck.
One of the things in concept is finding a trigger event, possible using an invisible waypoint duration, so that a mission can be created that interrupts the player for other ops thren btings him back to complete the crane ops.
First to master the allowed container/crane ops, then allow the imagination to run.
I'm very appreciate for the information,
Thank you very much,
Rob (redfishgtx)

[redfishgtx]

that should have been "appreciative".
OBTW: I have discovered how sensitive the Mission Editor is, had a couple of test missions go farkled on me.
Twitch,save,twitch,save...............

[TerryRussell]

Hi Rob.

When creating missions:

(1) Try to never delete anything. Other objects will leap into the place of the thing you have just deleted. If they are AI vessels, go to the AI => Ships tab and press reset twice. That usually fixes it. But quite often you will find that other things move around. Things like the running order of the waypoints!

(2) Never let the AI tracks cross each other. There be dragons!

[redfishgtx]

Come to think of it yes, I believe I tried to delete an object and replace it at the time. Toast !!
I've got a test mission put together if someone wants to give it a whirl and provide feedback, of course cleanup
is needed on the objectives and reached-texts but you can (gingerly) place the containers on the Sherpa in New York. Im keeping the number of containers to a minimum to expedite debugging via play.

and before the pidgeons peck - I know New York is a foriegn port for both vessels, let's just say they are on diplomatic loan, let it go.

Scenario - 1
Sherpa is just outside the slip, must maneuver and moor in position and snug-tight to the dock so that the crane and vessel are parallel.  Successful mooring instructs you to move to the crane (more questions on that later)
Scenario - 2
Crane ops to load 3 containers ever so gently upon Sherpa
Scenario - 3
Distress call from overboard sailor
RPA12 in vicinity and executes rescue (this would have been more interesting with nother vessel even perhaps since its location would permitl, a jet ski alas deletion==farkle so maybe when I recreate it).
RPA12 sent back to on-prowl (just get it out of the way) and you switch back to Sherpa
Scenario - 4
Sherpa is done with cargo ops, cast lines and sail away throug a couple of waypoint
Game over

so now the questions...
How does one do the fancy "A new vessel has been added to your mission...yada yada"

I'm interested in the trigger mechanisms and how yhey may be incoporated to "interrupt" the container ops for a sub-mission then return.

...and finally, I'm sure there's a link somewhere that describes how to put together an install package for a mission or is the mission file a jpg all that is need (assuming you have all the prerequisite environments/objectsd someone be kind enough to send it?
Thanks for your patience
Rob

[mvsmith]

Hi Ron,
If you have not yet downloaded the Mission Editor Tutorial, you can get the latest version from:
http://www.shipsim.com/ShipSimForum/index.php/topic,2886.0.html (http://www.shipsim.com/ShipSimForum/index.php/topic,2886.0.html)

You can also get the latest version of the Missions Manual. We can more easily discuss things that might need further explanation by referencing those documents.

If you mean packaging the two mission files, mission.xml and mission.png, you simply place them both in one compressed folder. This is actually a ZIP file. The ability to zip & unzip is built into Windows and requires no third party program.
I’ll give detailed instructions if you can’t find them elsewhere.

Regards,
Marty

[TerryRussell]

Hi again Rob.

If you want to talk directly with some of the people who create missions and other stuff, or if you want a mission quietly critiqued, you can join the gang at Creators Forum (link in my signature).

[mvsmith]

Hi Ron,

The container loading via the crane can of course be temporarily paused to go to another vessel, even the one that is being loaded. If you use the one that is being loaded, you should pause with the cab over the dock. In the case of Vermaas, you should also raise the jib.

The problem is to generate an event at the appropriate time to signal the side mission.
For a short delay, the usual method would be a timed waypoint under the loading ship. Unfortunately the maximum delay is only 100 seconds.
 
Another unfortunate fact: You cannot set into the crane waypoint the number of containers to load. The waypoint completes only after all containers on the dock are loaded. Otherwise, you could put 8 containers on the dock and make two waypoints of 4 containers each, with the side mission between them.

You could tell the crane operator that he has time to load 4 containers before he breaks for lunch aboard some vessel. After he switches to that vessel, a timed waypoint under the ship could begin the side mission. Or something…

Regards,
Marty

[redfishgtx]

I have those docs downloaded for reference.

This afternoon (here in Florida,US) I sucessfully created a mission with two operational cranes and two Sherpas.
So far I haven't noticed anything beyond it getting farkled on what's the cockpit view, the first crane created is not a cockpit view when you ask for it. The last crane created has a proper cockpit view.
The key was to create the cesond crane object and IMMEDIATELY go edit the object and change its name, if you don't some really wierd things happrn as I imagine the engine uses that name and boy can it get it's pants gnarled up from the players perspective. It's doing exactly what it should but it doesn't present itself to the player well.

Some things I've observed, if your container pointer arrows don't show up in-play your xml is farkled, had a working mission then I did something that hosed it. It does appear to be very sensitive and unforgiving.

Don't rely on on "reset mission" to reset mission, in SS2008 go back to main menu then reload the mission. While it appears to work I've actually observed artifacts from a previous missions. Once my channel waypoints all became containers  

Edit/Name your objects, helps in debugging

that's all for now, will post a link

Rob

[mvsmith]

Hi Ron,

There is supposed to be only one crane and one crane waypoint in a mission. That may explain why there is only one cab view.

The problems with the “Reset mission” button are mentioned in the Missions Manual. It can produce many weird effects.

Naming objects is important, especially area objects. Many creators don’t see the need to name area objects that they put waypoints on.

Have fun!
Regards,
Marty

[redfishgtx]

Terry:
I'll take you up on your invite

Marty:
I'll add, container placement by the operator is critical and Not forgiving for if you drop a container below deck
it appears the mission is hopelessly hosed (unless you've placed some spare containers on dock)  I reckon the big green dot to the kiss of death for that mission at least. There is a small window of hieght where the container changes color. My experience is that's where you drop to stay from below deck.

I uploaded (or it says it did) "Busy day on the container docks" where I have two functional crane instances.

So okay, there's only supposed to be one crane, wouldn't be the first time we learn things our tinker-toys can do without us. 

Back to the manuals
Rob


And thank you for sharing that the crane doesn't care if you're loading/unloading or both. I was going nuts there until I just gave up, but your statement now makes sense

[redfishgtx]

...perhaps hiding/unhiding mmight help our cab-view issue yet still allow multiple crane ops, worth a test.
Cheers, Rob

[redfishgtx]

Terry, that forum doesn't like me, used my registered email first, then used (clearing the email field) redfishgtx, then tried proper name. No Go.
Where to next?

[TerryRussell]

Hi Rob.

You have to log in as guest, then request an account (it is done immediately). The system will then give you a password etc. You can change that afterwards.

It isn't directly linked to this forum for security reasons (I provide the forum for various train simulation development teams, aircraft simulatoion teams and dungeon & dragin developers etc).