Ship Simulator
English forum => Ship Simulator 2008 => Topic started by: john morris on January 23, 2008, 16:42:14
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It appears Portsmouth Harbour is silting up. The depth from the harbour entrance shows less than a metre in places though I know today there are ships with draughts of 5m sitting alongside the commercial docks.
Could we please have a dredger added to the available ships.
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Hi :)
As far as I know, the water levels have been modelled at the lowest tide. ;)
SA
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Even at the lowest tide, the ferries use the continental ferry port. The berths are right down the far end of Portsmouth Harbour past the Naval Yard. A quick check on a couple of ferries show an average of 6m to 6.50m.
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the Navel Yard.
I wonder what ships are docked there... ;D
HMS Umbilicus, HMS Tummy Button, HMS Lint Collector, HMS Belly Orifice... :P
Just kidding.. ;)
Fred
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Nice one, Fred! ;D
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HMS Salt Cellar....chips never tasted so good ::)
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Not sure if this is now off-topic as the topic has moved onto "condiments I might like", but in another thread we figured out that Portsmouth Harbour has the water depths based on Chart Datum (which is about 1 metre below Mean Low Water Springs) and the land is based on Mean High Water Springs. That means that about 18 foot of water has been sliced off and the land sat on top of waht is left (in effect).
Neat trick!
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Do we know for sure that the depth is measured at the lowest tide... ???
Because it has always been my aim to have the largest ship in the world added to the game.
"Jahre Viking" or the "Knock Nevis"
Rotterdam is one of two ports in the world deep enough to take it. :o
But it can only enter for 20min at high tide :-\
This could spell disaster for my dreem :(
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I have very vivid memories of watching HMS Vanguard leaving Portsmouth Harbour with a draught of 9.3M
and sailing in and out of the harbour on the RFA Olynthus, drawing 11.9M. Given rise and fall of 2.5M. I think the depths in the sim need to be increased.
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Do we know for sure that the depth is measured at the lowest tide... ???
Because it has always been my aim to have the largest ship in the world added to the game.
"Jahre Viking" or the "Knock Nevis"
Rotterdam is one of two ports in the world deep enough to take it. :o
But it can only enter for 20min at high tide :-\
This could spell disaster for my dreem :(
Yes, as I say, it is modelled on an approximation of Chart Datum (about 1 metre below MLWS).
I live by the coast and often take one or other of my boats into Portsmouth, so I know it quite well.
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There is also a nasty sandbank at the enterance of Southampton, just before the oil refinery. 2 days ago we had a full scale rescue going on because of it......
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It's a famous one, called the Brambles.
At low tides there have been cricket matches played on it. It is marked by a prominent buoy and is shown very clearly on the maps.
In the summer, it can be quite entertaining to watch yachts run aground on it. ;D
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Slightly to the left of Brambles, you still run into something which is what i meant
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If you zoom in using the SS08 maps, I think that shallow area is clearly shown. As with all banks, there will be ever-changing shallows in the area. In SS08 they don't change, though.
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I agree with J Morris, have lived here all my life and you see constant mvement in and out of the harbour at all states of the tide. Ocean Star ran aground in the centre of the channel right by Fort Blockhouse, and then quite spectacularly leapt up in the air and was left hanging about 20m of the surface of the Haslar Wall!!
I think that VStep need to do some dredging. There does not seem to be the same problem of the container berths in Southampton :'( :'( :'( :'(
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Hi MH1.
Greetings from Selsey.
There does not seem to be the same problem of the container berths in Southampton
Yes there is. As explained above and several other threads, Vstep made a mistake when they constructed some of the harbours. The water depth is at chart datum, while the land is at MHWS. This means that about 18 feet of water is missing. If you see it, please give it back.
The Hamble is at chart datum and I know Southampton is also incorrect. I keep a couple of boats in Chichester Marina and often go to Portsmouth and up the top of Southampton Water and in and out of the Hamble, Itchen and Test, etc.
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Unfortunately it's almost the same at the more or less non-tidal-influenced harbour of Marseille. The whole area around the ferry terminals along the Quai Du Maroc is to shallow. This would be a nice destination for the PoR too, but it is really hard to manoeuvre and berth her there, where ferries with more draft are frequent guests.. ::)
Cheers
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TR
Thanks for that, as John Morris mentioned above I also remember watching HMS Vanguard leave Pompey under tow and then go aground near the old Gosprt Chain Ferry slipway!
I don't suppose that VStep will do anything about it, they can't even seem to fix long outstanding issues like Missions which cannot be completed!!
Rgds
MH
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I don't suppose that VStep will do anything about it, they can't even seem to fix long outstanding issues like Missions which cannot be completed!!
Hi MH.
Actually, it isn't that long outstanding. It only went wrong for some missions when they issued V1.3. I believe that rather than fix the missions and risk them being incompatble with earlier versions (or possibly with later versions), they decided to leave as-is and press on with the next update. I suspect that V1.4 will fix the problems. Hopefully it won't be too far in the future.
Just have patience. I'm sure the forthcoming updates will be worth the wait. (it's only 7 or 8 weeks since the last set!).
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Terry
The latest updates have been out for some time and VStep still haven't got a dredger into Portsmouth yet. Any thoughts on if and when they will correct this anomaly?
??? ??? ???
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Hi MH1 :)
I am afraid that the lowest astronomical tide 'error' will not be corrected until the next release of SS, probably SS2009.
You are not the only one who find this error most unfortunate. It riles me that they spent time on modelling the nice oil pier at the Fawley terminal, but it is impossible to reach with the only tanker in the game... :(
Regards
groennegaard
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Terry
The latest updates have been out for some time and VStep still haven't got a dredger into Portsmouth yet. Any thoughts on if and when they will correct this anomaly?
??? ??? ???
I don't know, but my guess is that it won't get fixed in Ship Sim 2008. My money is on them fixing it in the next version. But I have no secret information, just a shrewd idea.
They got Padstow done correctly. If you go across depths that are shown as 0, you actually have quite a bit of water underneath, so they have finally understood how charts work, it seems. ;)
[edit] Hi groennegaard. I hit the send button the time as you!
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[edit] Hi groennegaard. I hit the send button the time as you!
Hi Terry :) That's all right. :)
You better check your connection though. It seems like it took 2½ minute to upload your post... ;D ;)
Regards
groennegaard
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2.5 minutes out of a lifetime. That's simultaneous!
Against the age of the universe, pffff...
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You are not the only one who find this error most unfortunate. It riles me that they spent time on modelling the nice oil pier at the Fawley terminal, but it is impossible to reach with the only tanker in the game... :(
Although I haven't managed it myself yet, I have seen a tanker up at Fawley once before.....
Took these pics a little while back as I was passing.
Maybe if you hit the invisible sand bank at top speed (as long as you hit it centrally so you stay straight) you can get over it and beyond it without damage?
-Alex
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Hi Alex :)
Nice pics. I'm not sure how he managed to get up there. I have made several attempts without any luck. Everytime I hit the bank and take damage.
However, I haven't made any attempts at full speed as I am used to a squat/draught increase the more I increase speed. But of course, SS doesn't take squat into accont, so maybe it's worth a try.
Regards
groennegaard.
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Yes, you can get a tanker up Southampton Water, but I don't think you can get close enough to moor up.
Vermaas just about manages it, though.
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Farbeit from me to accuse anyone of skullduggery but it is possible to place a static ship anywhere, take screepics and post them to bemuse the rest of us and even tempt us into trying to get a ship there.
I had the VLCC moored at the deepwater terminal but was unable to turn it to set off downstream.
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And to return to the plot, my boat is currently out of the water, while the drive shaft machanism is repaired. But in a couple of weeks it gets dropped back in.
At that stage, I plan to take a video recorder and film from the twin forts round to Portsmouth Harbour and perhaps along the length of the Solent. Is anyone interested in seeing the resulting video?
I'll show the depth sounder as we go around Portsmouth, as well!
There, back on track. Happier thread now? :)
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That sounds fascinating Terry, I'd like to see the video if possible please :)
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Hi m8's,
Believe that the pics on first page of The Lattitude is from one of the test servers made briefly available for us (thank's Sadsid, Groennegaard and others for this). These servers have no damage activated, and therefore you can sail almost anywhere without problems, just run fast enough, and you will get over even a breakwater.
However - can't wait until Vstep makes an official Marseilles Server with same vessels as today + B2... ;)
"MS Magnus"
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That sounds fascinating Terry, I'd like to see the video if possible please :)
Most certainly. I'll send you the link when I have it available. Of course, the moment that the boat is ready, this wonderful weather will go sour...
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Thanks Terry ;D
If the weather carries on like this, I will shrink by about 2 foot by the end of the summer :D
It's hot hot hot!!!!
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Thanks Terry ;D
If the weather carries on like this, I will shrink by about 2 foot by the end of the summer :D
It's hot hot hot!!!!
Just to make you jealous, we have a cool breeze blowing in from the shore. Front and back windows are open and it's wonderful! The good thing about being surrounded by sea is that it takes the edge off the heat and off the cold.
The bad thing is when the shingle is hurled up past the door.
As you know I was away last week. When I got back, the car was covered in fine sand, which blows up from the beach in hot weather.
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Hi Terry
I for one would always welcome seeing a video of the worlds finest harbour (or Portsmouth*)
*I just put that bit in before you did.
The Royal Navy flagship, HMS Marmite is based there you know.
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the worlds finest harbour (or Portsmouth*)
Why not both? ;) ;)
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'cos I haven't got enough fuel holding in the boat to get from Chichester Marina, round to Portsmouth and then across to the finest harbour in the world. My boat drinks about 1 gallon of 4 star petrol per mile...
At UK prices of about 6 pounds per gallon, filling up the 300 gallon tank is often accompanied by the sounds of me, crying. :'(
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Terry,
Do you have a picture of your boat?
And i know that area also,specialy "wicor marine"portchester,at that time mister Dave wadington was the manager.
Marc
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Hi Marc.
My son and I took a load of photos when we stripped out the engine and transmission and all of the seating and canopy a couple of years ago. We increased the fuel tanks significantly at that time.
I think he must have them somewhere. I'll ask him when I next see him, and post a couple in this thread.
It's an American "Classic" Winner 22ft (Hull - LOA is about 24ft). Open top. Volvo 360xi duo-prop. It's easy for one person to handle and very fast (up to about 60 kts).
I don't go up into Portsmouth very often, as the boat is at Chichester. I do know the name of Dave Waddington but can't remember why, though,
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Nice boat! ;D
I'm after a sunseeker myself. ;D ;D Needs to be a marine diesel with nil fuel duty fuel.
60 kts is a fairly impressive speed. Well worth the fuel prices, methinks.
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Nice boat! ;D
I'm after a sunseeker myself. ;D ;D Needs to be a marine diesel with nil fuel duty fuel.
60 kts is a fairly impressive speed. Well worth the fuel prices, methinks.
No such thing as duty-free diesel now, though. I can hear the diesel lovers not starting their boats even more than they did previously.
As you say, I didn't get that boat and do it up to save money. I got it to play with it!
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No such thing as duty-free diesel now, though.
Really? :o I thought it was taxed the same as agricultural red diesel. Or is that taxed too now. Is the government really so desperate for cash?
As you say, I didn't get that boat and do it up to save money. I got it to play with it!
Fair play to you! Joking aside, I wanted to get another boat myself. But I live as far from the sea as you can get... (unless global warming/ rising sea levels are true)... I saw a nice RoRo for 3.5 million... ;D
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Really? :o I thought it was taxed the same as agricultural red diesel. Or is that taxed too now. Is the government really so desperate for cash?
Yep, marine diesel is the same price as at a garage now. Farmers are OK, I think.
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this topic seems to have been hijacked by small talk!! Can't see what any of this has got to do with the depth of water in Portsmouth Harbour!!!
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That is really shocking indeed... So it attracts full fuel duty.
This is not good. This is just not good at all.
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this topic seems to have been hijacked by small talk!! Can't see what any of this has got to do with the depth of water in Portsmouth Harbour!!!
I think if a new topic was to be started every time something wandered a bit, there'd be thousands of topics springing up too often
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this topic seems to have been hijacked by small talk!! Can't see what any of this has got to do with the depth of water in Portsmouth Harbour!!!
Since we are discussing the cost of fuel when I take my boat into Portsmouth Harbour whilst filming the harbour and my depth gauge, I'd say this was precisely on topic. Wouldn't you?
Or did you not read the comments properly before you posted your criticism?
Feel free to post your appology below. ;)
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I agree with Terry ;D it was precisely on topic :P
Dan
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Since we are discussing the cost of fuel when I take my boat into Portsmouth Harbour whilst filming the harbour and my depth gauge, I'd say this was precisely on topic. Wouldn't you?
Or did you not read the comments properly before you posted your criticism?
Feel free to post your appology below. ;)
No apology is necessary from me!!! You should all apologise for filling a forum thread with unrelated trash. I don't comment on how much diesel it takes me to drive to look at Portsmouth Harbour in my car...................... Or how much effort it takes to walk/cycle there...............
::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
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Then maybe you should start a thread Diesel consmuption of motor vessels and then go off topic and talk about water depths in Portsouths harbours.
Then we can make an un-necessary complaint about it, refuse to admit we're wrong and everyone is happy.
and I thought I was argumentative...
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Then maybe you should start a thread Diesel consmuption of motor vessels and then go off topic and talk about water depths in Portsouths harbours.
Then we can make an un-necessary complaint about it, refuse to admit we're wrong and everyone is happy.
and I thought I was argumentative...
Why would I want to start a thread on the subject of diesel consumption of motor vessels, in which I have no interest at all when I am interested in the lack of water in VStep's rendition of Portsmouth Harbour?
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Hiya guys :)
Off-topic posts are a common occurrence, and something most of us are guilty of (including me :-[), but surely we could work this one out before it gets personal ;)
I can't see that much of a problem here in all honesty, most of the posts do seem relevant. Portsmouth Harbour is still being discussed, even if it is slightly different to the way the thread started ;)
Maybe someone would like to bring us back on-track? ;D
Regards.
DJM/Carl.
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Hi HMS Borky.
Any idea where in the harbour that picture was taken? I'm trying to figure it out, but I can't place it.
Thanks.
[edit] It does look like it might be at Fareham...
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Hi HMS Borky.
Any idea where in the harbour that picture was taken? I'm trying to figure it out, but I can't place it.
Thanks.
[edit] It does look like it might be at Fareham...
From ship sim the semes to be here
(http://i29.tinypic.com/6nqmp1.jpg)
Edit: thats wrong but a nice pics ;D
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Unfortunately, I have nich herrausgefunden. But it must be in a yacht harbour somewhat must be away of Portsmouth Harbour. But it belongs to Portsmouth Harbour.
I can't see many vessels getting anywhere near that area, great shot though :)
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Hello,
The properties of the picture give this address:
http://www.thisisnorthcornwall.com/images/padsharb4.jpg
Low tide in Padstow, Cornwall
Regards, :)
Luc
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Hello,
The properties of the picture give this address:
http://www.thisisnorthcornwall.com/images/padsharb4.jpg
Low tide in Padstow, Cornwall
Regards, :)
Luc
??? However, so I have given Portsmouth Harbour in Google and then I have found this
But if I the address trace back then I come to Cornwall, sorry then I will extinguish it again
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Here are a satellite photo of the harbor, can you find it here?
(http://i26.tinypic.com/3444awo.jpg)
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??? However, so I have given Portsmouth Harbour in Google and then I have found this
Hello,
The properties of the picture give this address:
http://www.thisisnorthcornwall.com/images/padsharb4.jpg
Low tide in Padstow, Cornwall
Regards, :)
Luc
Then this was right then :)
From ship sim the semes to be here
(http://i29.tinypic.com/6nqmp1.jpg)
Edit: thats wrong but a nice pics ;D
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Can the answer be found here (http://www.thisisnorthcornwall.com/padstow.html)?
Luc ;)
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Can the answer be found here (http://www.thisisnorthcornwall.com/padstow.html)?
Luc ;)
I can see the image there Luc, but I can't see anywhere that explains exactly where the photo was taken :-\
Maybe I'm not looking hard enough ;)
Carl.
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I can see the image there Luc, but I can't see anywhere that explains exactly where the photo was taken :-\
Maybe I'm not looking hard enough ;)
Carl.
Take a look here then http://www.thisisnorthcornwall.com/padstow.html
TJK
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Take a look here then http://www.thisisnorthcornwall.com/padstow.html
TJK
??? same site ::) ;)
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OK, it's definitely in Padstow.
So the picture of Portsmouth Harbour was taken with a very good telescopic lens and managed to get Padstow instead. Hmmm....
[edit] 'ere, 'ang abart! E's nicked the piccy!
HMS Borky, why did you delete the post? It was a good picture even if if it was 250 miles off target. ;D
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??? same site ::) ;)
Sorry ;D but here are the picture again Terry
(http://i31.tinypic.com/33f5buh.jpg)
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Here are some pictures of Portsmouth Harbour.
http://www.philbrace.com/Aerial%20Pics%20Web%20Site/HAgallery.html
And here you can see live from the harbor
http://www.portsmouthharbour.net/harboureye/live.htm
http://62.49.203.251/pagebuild/cam2/pagebuild.cgi?PAGE=../std-files/pw_live2.conf&MENU=1&SITE=cam2&SUB=../br_oggle/vars.sub&SITENAME=Spinnaker-Tower
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There are some good shots of Portsmouth Harbour on this web site, lot of general ones of Pompey so it needs a bit of trawling through:
http://ww2.portsmouth-college.ac.uk/portsmouth/albums.php
Enjoy!! :) :)
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Thanks TJK and MH1.
Here's one that shows my boat. I'll give you a clue. It's on Jetty "S".
http://www.philbrace.com/Aerial%20Pics%20Web%20Site/WS05%20-%20Chichester%20Marina.jpg
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LOL Terry, you nearly had me with that one ;D
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Terry
Which end of the Marina does the alphabet start? Or is it a Greek alpha?
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Here's an interesting little site:
http://www.portsmouthnh.com/harbourtrail/index.cfm
;D
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Truly, it IS there and I can see it.
The picture is a bit old, but it also includes the larger boat that I sold earlier this year.
See attached...
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Cool, I thought you were 'having us over' Terry, apology letter is in the mail ;)
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Portsmouth is not far from mporter's house, in the Maine, 50 NM I think?
Regards, :)
Luc
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Cool, I thought you were 'having us over' Terry, apology letter is in the mail ;)
Well, there was an element of fun in my post, as you might expect...
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PS I am now off to Portsmouth to meet up with a client. I shall try to stop off ang get a photo of the harbour and post it here this evening.
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Have fun Terry, see you later ;) ;D
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DJM
Agree that is a great site but it is about 4000 miles away from the Portsmouth England that we are talking about!!! Just happens to be in the USofA!! :-[ :-[ :-[
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DJM
Agree that is a great site but it is about 4000 miles away from the Portsmouth England that we are talking about!!! Just happens to be in the USofA!! :-[ :-[ :-[
Whoops, Geography has never been my strong point ::) :-[
It doesn't help though when other Countries keep stealing our names :P :D
That last bit was a joke, just in case anyone thinks otherwise ;)
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Got confused myself went I went to Portsmouth NH last year and despite the fact that I was born in Portsmouth did not recognise the city and the harbour (including the depth of water) was not the same.
Had to add the bit about the depth otehrwise I might have been off topic!!
LOL
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Piccies as promised.
This one was taken from the north end of the Harbour. Port Solent is on the left. Portchester Castle can be seen on the right.
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These were taken from the North End of Portsmouth HArbour. You can see Millenium Tower in teh distance, centre of picture.
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This one was taken from the top of Portsdown Hill, next to the old cannons, looking down the Harbour, with Millenium tower in the cetre, far distance.
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This one was taken from the top of Portsdown Hill, next to the old cannons, looking westwards over Fareham Creek.
In the distance you can see the Solent (thin ribbon of silver water) and behind it, the Isle of Wight.
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Great pictures Terry, thanks for sharing ;D
Carl.
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Hi all :)
I was a bit sad to see this topic struggling to survive in a flood of off-topic posts. So I have cleaned the topic for the worst posts, and it should now be back to the lowest astronomical level of spam... ;)
Regards
groennegaard
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(By worst, he means me :o )
What IS the depth of the main channel (at low tide) coming into the naval dockyard. One thinks that those new aircraft carriers would have a hell of a job to get in (if the government ever builds them*)
Note: This was a question about the depth of water in Portsmouth harbour and not an opening comment in the ongoing debate about the Royal Navy.
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Dredging work has already started on the approach channel to Portsmouth Harbour, even though the contarct for the carriers has not yet been awarded!!
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Whilst I am not technically qualified on the subject, I understood that as the seabed was such soft, fine sand that it was virtually impossible for it unless it was subject to constant dredging.
As much as I prefer Portsmouth and it IS the home of the Royal Navy :-[ I'm surprised these 'virtual' carriers aren't being planned for Davenport- as were the last big carriers.
IF it isn't TOO far off topic, one of the reasons claimed for the cancellation of the last 'proper' aircraft carriers (remember the Invincible class aren't really carriers at all) by the 1970s government was the cost of dredging in Portsmouth.