Ship Simulator

English forum => Ship Simulator 2006 => General discussions => Topic started by: cpt.Young on June 07, 2007, 22:01:18

Title: Bismark or Titanic
Post by: cpt.Young on June 07, 2007, 22:01:18
Witch do you like more???
Title: Re: Bismark or Titanic
Post by: AriesDW on June 08, 2007, 03:06:24
EASY!! Titanic. Now, if it was the famous Bismark vs Hood debate, HOOD ALL THE WAY BABY!!

Of course Bismarks escort before she sank, the famous Prinz Eugen was one hell of a well built ship, as well.
Title: Re: Bismark or Titanic
Post by: Stuart2007 on June 08, 2007, 22:48:54
If you want a German ship, the scharnhorst would be a good one! Fast fpr size, tough.

Stu

Title: Re: Bismark or Titanic
Post by: AriesDW on June 08, 2007, 22:56:22
If you want a German ship, the scharnhorst would be a good one! Fast fpr size, tough.

Stu



Not to mention ugly and weaker than the Bismark class. :p The germans cannot design appealing ships, to be honest. HA HA! Schoernhorst was a force to be reckoned with, though, for sure. They were brilliant with how they were able to hide the Tirpitz and make her so imposing yet she hardly did anything.
Title: Re: Bismark or Titanic
Post by: cpt.Young on June 18, 2007, 23:52:05
i agree with the awnsers thanks
Title: Re: Bismark or Titanic
Post by: Stuart2007 on June 18, 2007, 23:54:39
Not to mention ugly and weaker than the Bismark class. :p The germans cannot design appealing ships, to be honest. HA HA! Schoernhorst was a force to be reckoned with, though, for sure. They were brilliant with how they were able to hide the Tirpitz and make her so imposing yet she hardly did anything.

BUT she kept half the British fleet busy looking for their few major capital ships.

Like an escort on a convoy. Unlikely to sink a U boat... but just kept them busy away from the main targets.

Stu
Title: Re: Bismark or Titanic
Post by: AriesDW on June 19, 2007, 00:00:16
BUT she kept half the British fleet busy looking for their few major capital ships.

Like an escort on a convoy. Unlikely to sink a U boat... but just kept them busy away from the main targets.

Stu

Yes, that is true. The German Skippers did a great job of giving the run around. I personally admire when the Prinz Eugen fired 650 rounds at the Red Army as they tried to invade this one port town . . . I forgot the name. The next day after she warpped her turrets beyound use, the crew of the Lipzeg (sp) stayed behind and fired upon the city, trying to delay the Red Army while the Prinz Eugen escaped . . . Man. Incredible amount of guts to do that.
Title: Re: Bismark or Titanic
Post by: Stuart2007 on June 19, 2007, 00:03:57
I've just read the book 'The Cruel Sea'. It is about a British Corvette in WW2. I had a neighbour who served on North Atlantic and Russian conveys. He could tell you a tale or two.

But there was a huge amount of bravery at sea- on both sides of the battle. I find the way that ships would stop to pik up enemy survivors at great risk to themselves to be one of the redeeming features of war- in such a situation, people can still have compassion. This was frequent occurance on BOTH sides.

Stu
Title: Re: Bismark or Titanic
Post by: AriesDW on June 19, 2007, 00:08:19
I've just read the book 'The Cruel Sea'. It is about a British Corvette in WW2. I had a neighbour who served on North Atlantic and Russian conveys. He could tell you a tale or two.

But there was a huge amount of bravery at sea- on both sides of the battle. I find the way that ships would stop to pik up enemy survivors at great risk to themselves to be one of the redeeming features of war- in such a situation, people can still have compassion. This was frequent occurance on BOTH sides.

Stu

I very much agree. It took a lot of courage to do what the men did, on both sides.
Title: Re: Bismark or Titanic
Post by: Stuart2007 on June 19, 2007, 00:17:21
Moving off topic, I always assumed that U boat crews were pretty safe and didn't often get hit by depth charges. Read the other day that 28% of their crews were lost.

If that is true it makes U boat crew one of the most leathal in a war!

Stu
Title: Re: Bismark or Titanic
Post by: AriesDW on June 19, 2007, 00:27:31
Moving off topic, I always assumed that U boat crews were pretty safe and didn't often get hit by depth charges. Read the other day that 28% of their crews were lost.

If that is true it makes U boat crew one of the most leathal in a war!

Stu

True . . .  Watch Das Boot the Directors Cut - OH MAN!! It get's intense.
Title: Re: Bismark or Titanic
Post by: Stuart2007 on June 19, 2007, 00:30:30
True . . .  Watch Das Boot the Directors Cut - OH MAN!! It get's intense.

Whats that about then? I don't speak German, but I guess DAS BOOT it THE BOAT?

I refuse to watch U237 (or whatever it was called). No offence to you or any other American here, but it was the British Navy that captured the sub and enigma machine. I don't thik history should ever be re-written...

Stu
Title: Re: Bismark or Titanic
Post by: [RWP]DJM on June 19, 2007, 00:34:18
Whats that about then? I don't speak German, but I guess DAS BOOT it THE BOAT?

I refuse to watch U237 (or whatever it was called). No offence to you or any other American here, but it was the British Navy that captured the sub and enigma machine. I don't thik history should ever be re-written...

Stu

U571....historically inaccurate.  I didn't really rate it to be honest.
Title: Re: Bismark or Titanic
Post by: AriesDW on June 19, 2007, 00:35:22
Das Boot is The Boat, yes. They have it in both German and English. Being I speak both languages, although my German is getting so rusty it is practically non-existent, I own copies in both languages. It gets extremely intense towards the middle of the film where the Commander screws with the wrong destroyer and . . . Well . . . they terrorize the hell of of the U-Boat . . . It makes me feel as if I am there everytime . . .Especially when the home theater is jacked up. LOL! (A good set of headphones does the trick, too!)
Title: Re: Bismark or Titanic
Post by: AriesDW on June 19, 2007, 00:36:30
U571....historically inaccurate.  I didn't really rate it to be honest.

AN APALLING MOVIE! I cannot believe it . . . I found the lack of truth offensive and that it was nothing more than a gimic to sell tickets to an action flick . . . One too many, personally.
Title: Re: Bismark or Titanic
Post by: [RWP]DJM on June 19, 2007, 00:37:17
AN APALLING MOVIE! I cannot believe it . . . I found the lack of truth offensive and that it was nothing more than a gimic to sell tickets to an action flick . . . One too many, personally.

You said it better than I did.  I agree totally :D
Title: Re: Bismark or Titanic
Post by: AriesDW on June 19, 2007, 00:41:18
You said it better than I did.  I agree totally :D

Now, getting back to Bismark - they do need an awesome, new Bismark film . . . Especially where she slugs it out with the Hood. It would be fantasic to see the old Hood on the big screen.
Title: Re: Bismark or Titanic
Post by: [RWP]DJM on June 19, 2007, 00:43:28
Now, getting back to Bismark - they do need an awesome, new Bismark film . . . Especially where she slugs it out with the Hood. It would be fantasic to see the old Hood on the big screen.

Absolutely, with the things they can do with SFX now also....would make a fantastic movie.  Just hoping that they wouldn't over-dramatise it though or detract from the historical significance.....as usually happens  ::)
Title: Re: Bismark or Titanic
Post by: Stuart2007 on June 19, 2007, 00:44:25
If you want to see a good war film, watch the cruel sea.

For those who havent seen it, it is a harsh look at the bitter realities of war, without the glamour. How it can destroy people- even the victors. Jack Hawkins played a fantastic part as a captain of a RN corvette, with an inexperienced volunteer crew.

At one point he has to choose between saving merchant seamen and attaking a u boat. The decision nearly kills him- so well portrayed by Hawkins.

Stu
Title: Re: Bismark or Titanic
Post by: Stuart2007 on June 19, 2007, 00:45:41
Absolutely, with the things they can do with SFX now also....would make a fantastic movie.  Just hoping that they wouldn't over-dramatise it though or detract from the historical significance.....as usually happens  ::)

I agree with you on that. (see my above post about realistic war films) But I imagine it would be set as the USS Hood, not HMS hood. No one wants to buy british films now.

Stu
Title: Re: Bismark or Titanic
Post by: AriesDW on June 19, 2007, 00:52:19
Absolutely, with the things they can do with SFX now also....would make a fantastic movie.  Just hoping that they wouldn't over-dramatise it though or detract from the historical significance.....as usually happens  ::)

That is why the film needs to be made in Europe - it would be cannibalized, digested, and vomited back up and placed on the screen with all sorts of errors . . . .
Title: Re: Bismark or Titanic
Post by: sterling vp on June 12, 2008, 22:20:41
I would have to say The Bismark.
She and the Prinz Eugen were good ships.

S.V.P
Title: Re: Bismark or Titanic
Post by: trains on June 13, 2008, 02:30:24
Not to mention ugly and weaker than the Bismark class. :p The germans cannot design appealing ships, to be honest. HA HA! Schoernhorst was a force to be reckoned with, though, for sure. They were brilliant with how they were able to hide the Tirpitz and make her so imposing yet she hardly did anything.
but if they designed Yamato, that would be a diffrent story.
Title: Re: Bismark or Titanic
Post by: Ship Sim on June 13, 2008, 04:43:48
I vote Bismark which I think was one of the best war ships in WW2 it sank the in minouts. Bismark could have maid it back to a german port if her rudder wouldnt have gotter jammed. My self I love german and american WW2 ships. British ships are ok to. But we all must remember even  Isoroku Yamamoto`s flagship Yamato couldnt stand up to hundreds of American dive bombers and torpedo planes.(Even though there were eight distroyers and a light cruiser in the task force they still sunk it). So the lesson in that even the greatest ship could be broken up with a well set torpedo from one Submarine of U-boat. ;)
Title: Re: Bismark or Titanic
Post by: Ship Sim on June 13, 2008, 04:58:40
Now, getting back to Bismark - they do need an awesome, new Bismark film . . . Especially where she slugs it out with the Hood. It would be fantasic to see the old Hood on the big screen.

Well todays that day. ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zbz6Oa5PQuA&feature=related

And heres a vedio of the Yamato.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUl1mAjTTb0
Title: Re: Bismark or Titanic
Post by: chris13 on June 13, 2008, 08:24:53
Hey  Ship Sim  ;)

That's the nice movie about the Bismarck!!

Thank you

Chris
Title: Re: Bismark or Titanic
Post by: Ship Sim on June 13, 2008, 17:17:50
Yea you can find almost anything on You Tube. ;) and your welcome.
Title: Re: Bismark or Titanic
Post by: [SJ]Stein on June 14, 2008, 09:42:29
I agree with you on that. (see my above post about realistic war films) But I imagine it would be set as the USS Hood, not HMS hood. No one wants to buy british films now.

Stu

Grinn.. you have no clue what sort of icon the HMS Hood was in it's day?   ;)

True . . .  Watch Das Boot the Directors Cut - OH MAN!! It get's intense.
Well.. to be honest.. i stumbled on the miniseries of Das Boot... 3 episodes, each about 1.5 hrs to 1hr 45 mins... the story is told alot better then the cuttings and pasting of the directors cut, i've now seen the whole picture and the part where they freak out because they are too far off a convoi gets played out better, the boredom of waiting, which occupied around 95% of theyre time as well. So sorry, but my tip of the day is: Das Boot Mini  (series)  Dont think you'll find it in stores though...
Oh.. and i've read the book 3 times... all 514 pages..(in the dutch version as i can recall)
And Das Boot is U96... they even had the warf in Hamburg build 2 u-boats for that movie, last build of one they had was in 1945 probably and there comes this moviemaker back in the 1980's asking if they still had the plans and could build him a couple.. lol... one was used for interior shots, the other one for realistic diving and surfacing and "probably" the patrolscenes.

Now, getting back to Bismark - they do need an awesome, new Bismark film . . . Especially where she slugs it out with the Hood. It would be fantasic to see the old Hood on the big screen.
Certainly the most quoted so far AriesDW....

indeed it would be fantastic for the Hood to see the light of day again, awsome... yet if it's the fightscene, she certainly wont be on there too long.
Overdramatising will probably happen, and twisting the truth a bit as well... but i'm not really sure the boxoffices can fill when there's too much realism.... it's all about profits these days.. shame really.

But.. i'd vote Bismark, as the story on the titanic has already been told (and overacted)... the toughness of the bismarck is what intriqued me, she took sooo many shells before she finally rolled over, yet the crew still reported they scuttled her... imagine that.. no icebergs around eh?  ;)

my $0.02

Anyways.. good readingmaterial guys, Good thread!

Regards,

Frankestein
Title: Re: Bismark or Titanic
Post by: chris13 on June 15, 2008, 21:52:14
hello Ship SIM   ;)

Yes I see, but the movie about the Brismarck is realy excellent and you can see how the battle takes place!!
And I learned new things about this battles.


Regards,

Chris
Title: Re: Bismark or Titanic
Post by: barrown1990 on February 01, 2011, 02:41:18
Not to mention ugly and weaker than the Bismark class. :p The germans cannot design appealing ships, to be honest. HA HA! Schoernhorst was a force to be reckoned with, though, for sure. They were brilliant with how they were able to hide the Tirpitz and make her so imposing yet she hardly did anything.

i know this is an old topic but i just like to say that i thought the germans designed some of the best ships of ww2
Title: Re: Bismark or Titanic
Post by: Brave Sir Charge on February 01, 2011, 14:30:51
no no no guys... you are all wrong

uss Dakota
Title: Re: Bismark or Titanic
Post by: barrown1990 on February 01, 2011, 17:42:41
no no no guys... you are all wrong

uss Dakota
what about it? its a shed compared to the germans, though a palace compared to japaniese ships i admit
Title: Re: Bismark or Titanic
Post by: Brave Sir Charge on February 01, 2011, 18:56:50
what about it? its a shed compared to the germans, though a palace compared to japaniese ships i admit
not germans but nazis btw the bismark was sunk by the slowest aircraft the royal navy had.... The fairey Swordfish
Title: Re: Bismark or Titanic
Post by: barrown1990 on February 01, 2011, 20:23:04
not germans but nazis btw the bismark was sunk by the slowest aircraft the royal navy had.... The fairey Swordfish
no ship is invincible. im just saying the geman ships looked betyter thats all.

in bismarck's case  the plane had a lucky shot on the rudder, the british ships all but destroyed the superstructure but inthe end the bismarck was scuttled by her own crew
Title: Re: Bismark or Titanic
Post by: barrown1990 on August 22, 2011, 23:06:02
 in my opinion any ship that takes on 2 of the best ships the royal navy had (hood and prince of wales) and destroys 1 and cripples the other within 5 minutes is a very powerful ship which means no-one in their right mind would question the fact that bismarck was one of the greatest battleships ever built
Title: Re: Bismark or Titanic
Post by: Rbsanford on August 22, 2011, 23:14:48
too bad she was with the bad guys.

if otherwise, WWII would have been won earlier.

btw, i'm not saying the germans were bad, i'm saying the nazis were bad. even back then there was a difference.
Title: Re: Bismark or Titanic
Post by: Stuart2007 on August 23, 2011, 12:42:54
not germans but nazis btw the bismark was sunk by the slowest aircraft the royal navy had.... The fairey Swordfish

Oh really? When correcting someone, be sure to be correct yourself. After being chased by A squadron under Adm. Tovey (and being lost due to naval intelligence in Britain making a mathematical error) she was intercepted by the Swordfish from the Ark' and her rudder damaged.

The actual sinking was some 10 or so hours later and it is debatable whether the Bismarck was scuttled or sunk by shells from the Battleship HMS Rodney.

The wikipedia article is quite impressively accurate for once.

An interesting point here for armchair Admirals with 20/20 hindsight is that the Royal Navy was instructed to keep firing until the ship was obviously beyond salvage. There were even reputedly calls from RN ships to cease fire and take onboard survivors but this was vetoed by Adm. Tovey on the grounds that the ship MUST be sunk- indeed this proved to be a good course of action as even when virtually a hulk, the crew of Bismarck managed a few well placed salvos into the fleet- yet their ship went down with the Kriegsmarine flag flying, thus never surrendering.

Unfortunately, due to the risk of very bad tempered U boat commanders in the area, the rescue operation was ceased and the crew of Bismarck left to drown. Not the highlight of RN history, but that's easy to say from the comfort of my office in peacetime 2011.
Title: Re: Bismark or Titanic
Post by: Stuart2007 on August 23, 2011, 12:49:32
Barrown1990, Hood would have survived that salvo had the RN completed the deck armour that was planned for Hood.

Indeed, the weaponery, speed and range that Bismarck posessed has assigned it a everlasting page in the history of naval warfare.

However, both Hood and Bismarck had their respective weaknesses. Had Hood completed its turn during the attack it would have survived and the two flagships of the respective NAvies would have been well matched for a fight out.

Would be a hell of a thing to have seen one of these monsters of the sea.
Title: Re: Bismark or Titanic
Post by: barrown1990 on August 24, 2011, 22:58:54
Barrown1990, Hood would have survived that salvo had the RN completed the deck armour that was planned for Hood.

Indeed, the weaponery, speed and range that Bismarck posessed has assigned it a everlasting page in the history of naval warfare.

However, both Hood and Bismarck had their respective weaknesses. Had Hood completed its turn during the attack it would have survived and the two flagships of the respective NAvies would have been well matched for a fight out.

Would be a hell of a thing to have seen one of these monsters of the sea.


dont accuse me of sideing with the germans but at the range they were shooting at each other hood didnt stand a chance. hood's deck armour was to thin to survive the plunging fire from bismarck. sooner or later it would have been hit in a vital area.

in the end even the battleships couldnt sink her. i beleive she was scuttled
Title: Re: Bismark or Titanic
Post by: Stuart2007 on August 25, 2011, 17:10:45

dont accuse me of sideing with the germans but at the range they were shooting at each other hood didnt stand a chance. hood's deck armour was to thin to survive the plunging fire from bismarck. sooner or later it would have been hit in a vital area.

in the end even the battleships couldnt sink her. i beleive she was scuttled

Are you on tablets, barrown1990? Or are you simply a bit dense?

Did you bother to READ any of the articles on these ships? The wikipedia article on hunt for Bismarck is actually quite accurate and well worth the read.

Now, tell me oh wise one, what range were they fighting at? Do you even know?

Tell me, why did Hood not stand a chance? For the very reason of poor deck armour- as I had already pointed out. However, Hood was due for refit to address this problem- albeit too late.

"sooner or later it would have been hit in a vital area."
You can say the same of ANY warship!
Title: Re: Bismark or Titanic
Post by: danny on November 02, 2011, 23:33:32
dont accuse me of sideing with the germans but at the range they were shooting at each other hood didnt stand a chance. hood's deck armour was to thin to survive the plunging fire from bismarck. sooner or later it would have been hit in a vital area.

in the end even the battleships couldnt sink her. i beleive she was scuttled

It wasn't the armour that was the issue, it was the fact that the proceedures for ammunition handling weren't being followed. As a result, there was a explosion and fire which set the main magazine off. once that had gone up, the hood had no chance.