Ship Simulator

English forum => NAUTIS Home => Topic started by: Traddles on July 23, 2020, 11:30:01

Title: Delay in introduction of Nautis Home
Post by: Traddles on July 23, 2020, 11:30:01
It was with some sadness that I received an Email this morning from Vstep saying that, due to the virus pandemic, further development of the game has had to be postponed until early in 2021.
Whilst fully understanding the situation, it is very sad that this has been the case. like many of us "old hands" I have been eagerly awaiting news, but of course, not this news.
Never mind, I will try to adopt the attitude that all good things come to he who waits!!
To put a lighter touch on the subject, I hope that, as I am so old now, I will still be around for the final introduction of the game!!!

Angus
Title: Re: Delay in introduction of Nautis Home
Post by: eviss on July 23, 2020, 15:38:11
Hello Angus,

Thank you for for informing us about:

"What is the progress of NAUTIS Home development?"

You've said it well and attached the feeling of many of us in your comment.
 
It was about time that VSTEP should inform all of the ShipSim community through the forum.

We are interested buyers of the previous products and likely interested in the annouced Nautis Home.

Not every one was able to subscribe to the testers group for various reasons and did not get an email to explain the delay or problems on the road ahead.

Since I am one of the "older" members like yourself / I hope to see this project finished, while I'm around and be able to meet friends again, sailing online .

Kind regards,

Erik

"Redfox" online
Title: Re: Delay in introduction of Nautis Home
Post by: Captain Cadet on July 23, 2020, 16:27:32
As someone’s who’s involved in software engineering it does not surprise me. We have found we are significantly less productive at home. A lot of software engineering requires you to talk to another person and being online makes it harder.
Title: Re: Delay in introduction of Nautis Home
Post by: New182 on July 23, 2020, 18:54:16
Hi All,

Disappointing news for all via email on the delay, but understandable.

Is there any value of creating a crowd funding page where we could all put up a little money to allow VStep a chance to get in a "small team" for a short period to finish the work they have already completed or at least reconsider the decision.

I would certainly spend a little to gain a lot. Although my skills of "online crowd funding set up" is limited, well shocking really, but I am sure out of the many talented people in the forums across Europe we could do something to assist.

I strongly believe the drive is there within VStep but circumstances have, well forced the Company to make a decision for the greater good and longevity.

regards,
New182
Title: Re: Delay in introduction of Nautis Home
Post by: Captain Cadet on July 23, 2020, 19:31:55
I honestly don’t think it’s financial problem as such. There is a computer science rule that basically says throwing more manpower at a project slows it down. The systems the use require such intermittent understanding it’s not worth getting more people. Say if there productivity dropped by 40% they are better off moving resources to current projects that they make money on than spending the spare resources they had on a new game.
Title: Re: Delay in introduction of Nautis Home
Post by: Cob on July 25, 2020, 17:59:49
Good evening everyone
I also received the email, sorry for the delay, but I'm not surprised by the decision taken by Vstep, unfortunately this pandemic has not spared any sector, we have seen that Smart working is not very productive, especially when there is more need for human presence in certain situations. I will make up for it and bring patience, I hope that in the end a good project will come.
Health to all and good wind.
Title: Re: Delay in introduction of Nautis Home
Post by: Cob on March 05, 2021, 23:45:15
Good evening to all sailors
We haven't talked about Nautis Home anymore, at what point am I, a simulation version will be released for everyone, was it just a failure ???
I understand the current situation, this damned virus, it does not want to give up, but let's hold on, I hope they decide to implement a mass vaccination as soon as possible, otherwise we will not get out soon.
Good luck.
Title: Re: Delay in introduction of Nautis Home
Post by: jetboatcap on March 08, 2021, 23:56:40
Does anyone have any idea of what the system requirements will be for Nautis Home? I have been waiting to get a new computer until this information was to be released, but I haven't heard anything regarding system requirements. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Delay in introduction of Nautis Home
Post by: Traddles on March 09, 2021, 14:59:40
As yet, no one has any idea of what is required for Nautis Home. There has been no news from Vstep on the subject.
Title: Re: Delay in introduction of Nautis Home
Post by: Captain Cadet on March 17, 2021, 22:14:12
Does anyone have any idea of what the system requirements will be for Nautis Home? I have been waiting to get a new computer until this information was to be released, but I haven't heard anything regarding system requirements. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

This will be known at the later stages of development.

Just to add this isn’t from VSTEP but from my experience in software development. VSTEP may have a target spec in mind but it’s just a target and won’t be announced just the risk of false expectation like we saw in cyberpunk
Title: Re: Delay in introduction of Nautis Home
Post by: MokMok on July 24, 2021, 20:29:56
Until Nautis Home will be released, I ask Vstep here to revive Ship Simulator Extremes and to make their official MP servers online again.
Title: Re: Delay in introduction of Nautis Home
Post by: Captain Cadet on July 25, 2021, 17:05:37
Until Nautis Home will be released, I ask Vstep here to revive Ship Simulator Extremes and to make their official MP servers online again.

I think the problem was the servers did not have enough usage and that not enough games were being sold. Servers are not cheap as you need someone to Maintain them, update them etc. Further laws have changed that mean that vstep has to monitor their communication channels more carefully.

From other posts, vstep seem to have very little knowledge of SSE as the expertise has moved on. The game engines used were also old and very difficult to maintain - game engines do not often work by code and resulting in some bugs having to be removed by remaking the component
Title: Re: Delay in introduction of Nautis Home
Post by: MokMok on July 25, 2021, 17:18:53
From other posts, vstep seem to have very little knowledge of SSE as the expertise has moved on. The game engines used were also old and very difficult to maintain - game engines do not often work by code and resulting in some bugs having to be removed by remaking the component

Do you mean that game engines compile source code into machine language on the fly while a game is running? Is the Quest Viewer game engine, which is used in Ship Simulator, still developed?
Title: Re: Delay in introduction of Nautis Home
Post by: Gab on July 25, 2021, 22:23:40
I think the problem was the servers did not have enough usage and that not enough games were being sold. Servers are not cheap as you need someone to Maintain them, update them etc. Further laws have changed that mean that vstep has to monitor their communication channels more carefully.

From other posts, vstep seem to have very little knowledge of SSE as the expertise has moved on. The game engines used were also old and very difficult to maintain - game engines do not often work by code and resulting in some bugs having to be removed by remaking the component

I run a 24/7 server for SSE and it's not a lot of work. I don't know anything about the game engine and coding. I don't have any expertise whatsoever regarding video games or programming. Hosting a server or 2 is not difficult, nor time consuming, nor expensive.

Lack of online activity would be a better argument. But then again, it is a good way to entertain players interested in Nautis Home during the delay. They won't go bankrupt by running 2 official servers because the costs are minimal. Here I use an old laptop to host a server. It doesn't even cost 10$ every month in electricity.

As for maintaining the game (updates), it's for sure not worth it.
Title: Re: Delay in introduction of Nautis Home
Post by: Captain Cadet on July 26, 2021, 00:53:49
Do you mean that game engines compile source code into machine language on the fly while a game is running? Is the Quest Viewer game engine, which is used in Ship Simulator, still developed?
As far as I know it’s done in a type of IDE that doesn’t even contain an undo button. Quest viewer is the engine and is not widely used. IDE for games have come a long way in the last 15 years.
I’ve not used quest viewer but I’ve used a similar tool in school and it had no version control, no ability to work tidy with git, no undo and cost a lot per seat (one developer)

Hopefully vstep will use something up like unity
Title: Re: Delay in introduction of Nautis Home
Post by: Captain Cadet on July 26, 2021, 01:04:54
I run a 24/7 server for SSE and it's not a lot of work. I don't know anything about the game engine and coding. I don't have any expertise whatsoever regarding video games or programming. Hosting a server or 2 is not difficult, nor time consuming, nor expensive.

Lack of online activity would be a better argument. But then again, it is a good way to entertain players interested in Nautis Home during the delay. They won't go bankrupt by running 2 official servers because the costs are minimal. Here I use an old laptop to host a server. It doesn't even cost 10$ every month in electricity.

As for maintaining the game (updates), it's for sure not worth it.

You got to ensure GDPR compliance, the computer itself is up to date, you need someone to check to ensure it’s working regularly, answer support requests etc…
If it takes someone a two hours a week at €20 a hour, your looking at over €2000 a year and that’s before the other resources. There is also a good chance that nobody in vstep knows SSE well seeing it’s been at least 5 years since an update

There isn’t a return of revenue really, it’s hassle for the company so why bother?

I know this mentality doesn’t seem great, but as someone who’s worked in software engineering and has had to kill things like this,  I can clearly see why. Software engineering is hard and for smaller teams you need more of a coherent approach
Title: Re: Delay in introduction of Nautis Home
Post by: Gab on July 26, 2021, 03:07:32
You got to ensure GDPR compliance, the computer itself is up to date, you need someone to check to ensure it’s working regularly, answer support requests etc…
If it takes someone a two hours a week at €20 a hour, your looking at over €2000 a year and that’s before the other resources. There is also a good chance that nobody in vstep knows SSE well seeing it’s been at least 5 years since an update

There isn’t a return of revenue really, it’s hassle for the company so why bother?

I know this mentality doesn’t seem great, but as someone who’s worked in software engineering and has had to kill things like this,  I can clearly see why. Software engineering is hard and for smaller teams you need more of a coherent approach

It took me an hour to set up my server and I had no idea what I was doing. Stormforce did a guide about it, it's available on the forum. As I wrote earlier, I really don't think not knowing SSE is a good argument. Believe me, if I can do it, anybody can.


I spend less than an hour every month to "maintain" my server, and this is only because I change the maps and ships according to what people want. This is of course not a task required with official servers. So basically recurring hours would be 0 every week. Only task would be to reset the server if it crashes. From my experience in over 6 months, it happened once because of a power outage. Took me 5 minutes to put it back online. 

As for actively monitoring the servers to make sure they work, why would you do that? Vstep already have an email address, we will send them an email if a server crash. Again, no recurring cost here.

You also said there isn't a return of revenue, and this is not only wrong but also narrow minded. Reaching for a new customer is generally 12 times more expensive than keeping a current one. Vstep should try to do anything to keep the few players left. I don't think it's a wise strategy to believe that players still around today will be there forever. What I am seeing is players are getting desperate and quit because of the delay. My server help the community to stick together and to retain some players. Keeping an official server online would keep players active and engaged more than a private server, so it's an increase in sales potential.

Honestly if you don't believe it's worth bringing one or two official servers back to life for a few months, then I don't understand why would you bother with Nautis Home at all. Too much work and costs, and no guaranteed sales anyway, right? Kill that project already!

It seems you overestimate the costs by a long shot in an attempt to find an excuse for not doing it. 

About the GDPR compliance I don't know anything, so I will only say that a law shouldn't stop a project as small and simple as running a little server. I just don't see how it would make running a server impossible.

Finally, I think you reached pretty far with the "keeping the computer up to date" argument. I mean come on... updating a computer shouldn't stop you from doing anything. It's not even difficult to update a computer. Again, I feel like you are looking for excuses instead of considering the project seriously.

Title: Re: Delay in introduction of Nautis Home
Post by: Captain Cadet on July 26, 2021, 19:34:39
It took me an hour to set up my server and I had no idea what I was doing. Stormforce did a guide about it, it's available on the forum. As I wrote earlier, I really don't think not knowing SSE is a good argument. Believe me, if I can do it, anybody can.


I spend less than an hour every month to "maintain" my server, and this is only because I change the maps and ships according to what people want. This is of course not a task required with official servers. So basically recurring hours would be 0 every week. Only task would be to reset the server if it crashes. From my experience in over 6 months, it happened once because of a power outage. Took me 5 minutes to put it back online. 

As for actively monitoring the servers to make sure they work, why would you do that? Vstep already have an email address, we will send them an email if a server crash. Again, no recurring cost here.

You also said there isn't a return of revenue, and this is not only wrong but also narrow minded. Reaching for a new customer is generally 12 times more expensive than keeping a current one. Vstep should try to do anything to keep the few players left. I don't think it's a wise strategy to believe that players still around today will be there forever. What I am seeing is players are getting desperate and quit because of the delay. My server help the community to stick together and to retain some players. Keeping an official server online would keep players active and engaged more than a private server, so it's an increase in sales potential.

Honestly if you don't believe it's worth bringing one or two official servers back to life for a few months, then I don't understand why would you bother with Nautis Home at all. Too much work and costs, and no guaranteed sales anyway, right? Kill that project already!

It seems you overestimate the costs by a long shot in an attempt to find an excuse for not doing it. 

About the GDPR compliance I don't know anything, so I will only say that a law shouldn't stop a project as small and simple as running a little server. I just don't see how it would make running a server impossible.

Finally, I think you reached pretty far with the "keeping the computer up to date" argument. I mean come on... updating a computer shouldn't stop you from doing anything. It's not even difficult to update a computer. Again, I feel like you are looking for excuses instead of considering the project seriously.

So I get the general sentiment behind it and I understand your frustrating from a consumer point of view.

However I think you seriously underestimate the effort required for a business. Someone has to take responsibility, and when things go wrong, emails can be swamp tech support. Further I think VSTEP have stopped selling the game apart from direct downloads because the cost related - they do not even have access to the steam library to update here.

Also if someone been pushing criminal or sensitive data and they suddenly end up with a warrant, the legal costs of that is in the thousands. Also what happens if someone pushes someone’s details GDPR is involved? Been there and honestly it could have got pricy very quickly.

Vstep let SSE float away years ago, and I am surprised that they were working in a beta - I actually thought this forum closed down years ago before I got an email from here.
Title: Re: Delay in introduction of Nautis Home
Post by: Gab on July 26, 2021, 20:29:49
So I get the general sentiment behind it and I understand your frustrating from a consumer point of view.

However I think you seriously underestimate the effort required for a business. Someone has to take responsibility, and when things go wrong, emails can be swamp tech support. Further I think VSTEP have stopped selling the game apart from direct downloads because the cost related - they do not even have access to the steam library to update here.

Also if someone been pushing criminal or sensitive data and they suddenly end up with a warrant, the legal costs of that is in the thousands. Also what happens if someone pushes someone’s details GDPR is involved? Been there and honestly it could have got pricy very quickly.

Vstep let SSE float away years ago, and I am surprised that they were working in a beta - I actually thought this forum closed down years ago before I got an email from here.

I'm not frustrated by VSTEP not having official servers anymore. The game ran its course and it's pretty much dead now. What annoys me a little though, is how quickly you swept under the rug mokmok's idea. I think the idea is not crazy at all and deserves to be considered by vstep. So unless you work for them and have privileged insider intel, I really don't know how you can say "Nah they won't do it". Maybe vstep already have few brand new computers they bought to run Nautis Home servers and maybe they don't use it at all right now because of the delay. Maybe the staff core remains the same and they remember very well how to setup a server. Maybe the old servers are still out there because they never did anything with the computers after shutting down the servers, so they would simply need to turn them back on again. Maybe they have an intern who could take care of the servers for free. You don't know any of that, and neither do I. So let's not pretend you know that vstep can't do it because it would be too complicated for them, you have no idea.

As for the GDPR argument, well, those are all good reasons to not allow MP on Nautis Home at all. Based on your logic, Vstep shouldn't do anything because they possibly risk important legal fees if someone use any of their products in a bad way. That's an inherent risk of doing business. Doesn't mean you shouldn't be doing business at all.

You can believe whatever you like. Truth is: you don't have a clue of vstep situation so you can't say if the idea of running official servers is realistic from vstep perspective.  And for what it's worth, I think your pessimism is not welcomed when a member of the community comes up with an original and a (possibly) realistic idea.
Title: Re: Delay in introduction of Nautis Home
Post by: Captain Cadet on July 27, 2021, 19:10:21
I'm not frustrated by VSTEP not having official servers anymore. The game ran its course and it's pretty much dead now. What annoys me a little though, is how quickly you swept under the rug mokmok's idea. I think the idea is not crazy at all and deserves to be considered by vstep. So unless you work for them and have privileged insider intel, I really don't know how you can say "Nah they won't do it". Maybe vstep already have few brand new computers they bought to run Nautis Home servers and maybe they don't use it at all right now because of the delay. Maybe the staff core remains the same and they remember very well how to setup a server. Maybe the old servers are still out there because they never did anything with the computers after shutting down the servers, so they would simply need to turn them back on again. Maybe they have an intern who could take care of the servers for free. You don't know any of that, and neither do I. So let's not pretend you know that vstep can't do it because it would be too complicated for them, you have no idea.

As for the GDPR argument, well, those are all good reasons to not allow MP on Nautis Home at all. Based on your logic, Vstep shouldn't do anything because they possibly risk important legal fees if someone use any of their products in a bad way. That's an inherent risk of doing business. Doesn't mean you shouldn't be doing business at all.

You can believe whatever you like. Truth is: you don't have a clue of vstep situation so you can't say if the idea of running official servers is realistic from vstep perspective.  And for what it's worth, I think your pessimism is not welcomed when a member of the community comes up with an original and a (possibly) realistic idea.

I’m trying not to sweep the idea down under the carpet. As someone who’s day job is working with apps in professional services (which VSTEP is now, however I’m more healthcare) and a web client I’m just trying to give a insight why VSTEP has opted not to.
Title: Re: Delay in introduction of Nautis Home
Post by: Gab on July 27, 2021, 20:16:35
I’m trying not to sweep the idea down under the carpet. As someone who’s day job is working with apps in professional services (which VSTEP is now, however I’m more healthcare) and a web client I’m just trying to give a insight why VSTEP has opted not to.

Oh you work with apps on your day job so you absolutely know all the insider intel about vstep, sure. You also know they "opted not to" follow up with MokMok's idea, assuming this post reached Vstep and they considered whether they should do it or not and then decided not to. And you know all this because you work with apps related to healthcare, great!

Sure thing mate. Believe whatever you want. Next time, just don't put down other's ideas because you think you know better than everyone else. I said what had to be said, let's move on now.
Title: Re: Delay in introduction of Nautis Home
Post by: Cob on September 07, 2021, 14:35:43
Good evening everyone
It has been a long time since I logged on, and I have not followed the updates regarding the progress of Nautis Home anymore, if it is still in programming or not, I hope so.
I didn't know there were any private servers to continue with SSE !!! if someone has the ip addresses and the port where to connect and join you, I'd like to see you again together like a long time ago, thanks and good wind to all.
Title: Re: Delay in introduction of Nautis Home
Post by: CapnCrane on September 13, 2021, 17:49:51
How come everything is silent about Nautis Home for over a year already?
Title: Re: Delay in introduction of Nautis Home
Post by: serkan on September 21, 2021, 19:29:13
great news !

Coming in 2022!

After a challenging 1.5 years, we are back on track with the development on NAUTIS Home. The development roadmap is almost finalized and the team is ready to start the work. Stay tuned and subscribe to our newsletter as more information and sneak peaks will be shared in the coming months!

https://www.vstepsimulation.com/nautis-simulator/nautis-home/
Title: Re: Delay in introduction of Nautis Home
Post by: CapnCrane on September 24, 2021, 01:11:36
Ready to start the work? Well, at least something that nothing.
Title: Re: Delay in introduction of Nautis Home
Post by: Cob on September 30, 2021, 17:58:39
Good evening everyone, finally a small update from Nautis Home, let's hope well, the important thing that they do a good job.
Greetings and good wind to all
Title: Re: Delay in introduction of Nautis Home
Post by: Traddles on October 07, 2021, 11:46:17
Great to receive the latest newsletter from Vstep. They are continuing development of Nautis Home and are hoping to have it ready to go in 2022. I hope that it will be not too long as I am getting very old now. I have missed the contact with members of the forum,  even though I still sail all three games from time to time in order to feel in touch.

Kind regards to all,

Angus.

Title: Re: Delay in introduction of Nautis Home
Post by: Cob on October 07, 2021, 19:49:35
Hello yes I also received the notification from Vstep, they have started working on the software again, but before 2022 we will not see results, we just have to wait, I'm really curious to see the difference from the professional training software and what will be a sort of video game ;-)
Greetings and good wind