Ship Simulator
English forum => Ship Simulator 2008 => Topic started by: chrism on May 23, 2007, 22:53:03
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It would be nice if there want anchor control on the ships and better cockpit features for operating the ship as if it was a 747 on flight sim
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It would be nice if there want anchor control on the ships and better cockpit features for operating the ship as if it was a 747 on flight sim
Er, well, ships really don't have all that many controls -- throttles, thrusters, and rudder is about it. River towboats also have flanking rudders, but they are not (yet) implemented in SS.
Cheers,
Michael
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Theres a lot of stuff that can be included in ship sim from Virtual Sailor
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Ya I think an anchor would be neat. Its not always easy to get anchor to stay though.
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Er, well, ships really don't have all that many controls -- throttles, thrusters, and rudder is about it. River towboats also have flanking rudders, but they are not (yet) implemented in SS.
Cheers,
Michael
Hmm... Apart from bow thrusters, stern thrusters, rudder, propellor pitch, bouyancy/stability tanks, stabilisers (both fixed and adjustable) ... Even the autopilot has settings to determine its rate of turn, collision avoidance radar.
This isn't a criticism of shipsim or of you Michael, but ships aren't quite as simple as a car.
Stuart
PS (If I WERE being fecetious then I would point out that a 747 has ailerons, rudder, flaps, wheels and thats about it ;) (I have a PPL and found it easier than the car)
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PS (If I WERE being fecetious then I would point out that a 747 has ailerons, rudder, flaps, wheels and thats about it ;) (I have a PPL and found it easier than the car)
along with the state of the art navigation equip, and almost all digital displays and complex flight computers.
Yas said above, yeh, more than a throttle, thrusters, and wheel would be nice
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Yes, but please read my post. I said IF I was being fecetious...
The point is that there are only a few main controls to keep a airplane in the sky and there are only a few main controls to manouver a ship.
Do you remember when flightsim first came out? Remember that the function level of FS04 is somewhat different to the version of 2 decades ago! Give ship sim a chance.
PS If you want to talk about heavy jets may I suggest the much more impressive A380- the worlds biggest.
Stuart
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Hello Michael,
Indeed, a one button anchoring system similar to that of a 747 would give a better sense of the complexity of the handling. When pushing the button, the stewards will rush to the bow? ;)
At the same time, you fill the buoyancy tanks to gain some lift (while losing speed 8)), you reduce the fixed stabilisers :o and augment the gain of your stabilizing fins. Thanks to these manoeuvers, you can now check the settings of your autopilot.
I knew some more realism was needed. And dont forget to brief the chief.
Regards,
Luc
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Hello Michael,
Indeed, a one button anchoring system similar to that of a 747 would give a better sense of the complexity of the handling. When pushing the button, the stewards will rush to the bow? ;)
At the same time, you fill the buoyancy tanks to gain some lift (while losing speed 8)), you reduce the fixed stabilisers :o and augment the gain of your stabilizing fins. Thanks to these manoeuvers, you can now check the settings of your autopilot.
I knew some more realism was needed. And dont forget to brief the chief.
Regards,
Luc
Ah yes . . and I forgot also that you have to be careful about quick changes in the buoyancy tanks -- an abrupt jump might cause the soufflé to fall. ::)
And of course an autopilot with proper waypoints would complete missions by itself, so we could all relax with a beer.
Cheers,
Michael
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Will there really be an auto pilot? I there is that would be alsome on those long missions :)
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AUTOPILOT!!!
nice for ocean voyages to way points
A MUST HAVE
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Yes good idea aswell.
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There are a lot of small controls for that 747 -however, for the game you really do not need them.
To take the game to the realism and control level requested, there would need to be many, many controls. Ships, well, newer ones at least, are not just rudder, engines, thrusters . . . It is tough stuff.
And I have flown a few hundred hours in 747 simulators and I know there are A LOT of controls and they ALL have uses. Thank gor for MSFS simplicity sometimes. I would sometimes not always want to run the checklist on a weekend, short gaming session like in the bigger simulators. However, I would like to see the control level in SS step up a notch closer to MSFS. ;)
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Totally agreed!! The level of controls could be indeed stepped up, of course taking into account :-[ the graphical burden. But before that, the existing ones could be improved "at low cost" :o.
- A permanent display of rudder angle and RoT, be it digital or analog? Angle, not %.
- Also for the throttle settings (Soll- und Ist- values, dont know how to tell in English, something like desired- and actual values), permanently displayed (2 bargraphs?)
- and for thrusters settings.
For the anchor(s) control, like it exists in VS, :-X I dont support it. In VS its aim is to stop the drift without any semblance of realism :'(. I think VStep could do far better when letting them down or up, setting the length and allowing the ship to "turn around(?)" its anchor(s), at a minimum, taking into account the time needed to prepare the anchoring.
And if you like MSFS controls, I can ;D recommend the amazing Tu114, and trying to fly from Moscow to Miami ( :D) for instance.
Regards,
Luc
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And if you like MSFS controls, I can ;D recommend the amazing Tu114, and trying to fly from Moscow to Miami ( :D) for instance.
Regards,
Luc
I did the Moscow to NYC run.
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But before that, the existing ones could be improved "at low cost" :o.
- A permanent display of rudder angle and RoT, be it digital or analog? Angle, not %.
- Also for the throttle settings (Soll- und Ist- values, dont know how to tell in English, something like desired- and actual values), permanently displayed (2 bargraphs?)
- and for thrusters settings.
I do like your approach of improving what we have and trying to add things, but improving things first. I have spoken to VStep about this approach in the past. For EX - allowing us to pilot all AI ships - the small tankers, the other containers, the NYC Cattamaram taxi, etc. I am also all for the idea of expanding the current harbors in the game, not just adding new ones. And as you propose here, I am also for the improvement of control as well as the addition of some new ones, although fixing what we have would be a better approach. Just like ship dynamics - why add more ships when the current ones remain in the need of improvement.[/list]
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Like others here, I would like to see more facilities added in, but (as said before) don't compare the complexty to MSFS as it has been developed over 20 years. Im sure Ship sim will develop at a pace that suits the developer.
Stuart
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Theres a lot of stuff that can be included in ship sim from Virtual Sailor
like the rpm meter or the mooring control? Yes, I agree with you there- however, one of the beatys of ship sim, i guess, is its simplicity.
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Up to now, the (elastic) mooring system of Shipsim is "better" than that of VS. Ropes are indeed elastic (but not like chewing-gum), and need bollards or other mooring points. Not in VS, where you can moor your ship in the middle of the sea.
VS has many niceties, but anchoring and mooring are hmmm ::) less hmmm ;D realistic.
I am sure VStep will avoid or suppress any grotesque feature in ShipSim! The developers want a certain level of quality, and one must say they have up to now succeeded, let us not ask them to develop a new VS, a game aimed at nice and virtual -hypothetical- visuals, not intended to be a bridge simulator.
Regards,
Luc
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Up to now, the (elastic) mooring system of Shipsim is "better" than that of VS. Ropes are indeed elastic (but not like chewing-gum),
Well that was a shame with ship sim. When you moorde you can shoot out all over the place.
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Well a Real anchor should be fun. Then you can anchor up when you go for a meal.
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That would be very usefull with larger misions. I mostly prefer not to put a game on pause if I go get something to eat. With racegames I mostly park next to the road ore on a parking space. With shipsim it would be great to just drop the anchor. Get something to eat and sail further!
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AUTOPILOT!!!
nice for ocean voyages to way points
A MUST HAVE
Then whats the point of playing the game if the computer will do it for you? Might just use a long slide show ;)
Stu
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Anchor control and autopilot are once more derivatives from Virtual Sailor, game that you probably :'( "miss".
The game playground of VS is huge but not very detailed, unlike that of ShipSim. That is why an autopilot cannot be missed in the game. Indeed, if you intend to simulate a crossing of the Panama Canal with 5 ships together, you will need an autopilot to avoid having to jump ;D like a fly from one ship to the other.
It would also be an interesting feature within ShipSim for more complex missions with many ships, although I dont >:( like going from one to the other ship, abandoning the bridge without :D MAS anchors. It ruins the sense of the simulation, but enhances the fun!
The need of an autopilot is :o belittled by the perfect yaw stability of the ships, (with the exception of the multipurpose vessel Agile Solution). Hopefully, a coursekeeping device will be needed in ShipSim2008.
Regards,
Luc
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I like the idea of utilizing an actual anchoring system. An autopilot would be a feature I am very interested in. I prefer to be on one ship throughout a mission, which makes it more realistic, however, sometimes you need to use other vessels (see some of my missions with the Titanic).
Of course one system that acts both as autopilot and anchor is the new global postioning management system utilized on the QM2 - where if the ship is plotted to stay in one place and anchors, realistically and virtually, the computer mans the thrusters, azipods, and such to make sure the vessel does not drift out of position.
I too am highly annoyed with the extreme elasticity of the ropes on Ship Simulator. I often go to great lengths to doc the vessel properly, however, if there is a wind and the vessel drifts slightly, then the ropes "snaps" the vessel back towards the dock, therefore causing damage. I think this highly, highly annoying.
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That's impressive!
Presumably they only use that for short stops ie whilst waiting to enter harbour. They don't rely on it as the main system, do they?
I mean wouldn't that use a hell of a lot of fuel running the engines up every time there was a tide or current?
Stu
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Well, to be honest, I'm gonna get ss08 instead of VS cos, even though vs has sailing ships and subs and that, as you said, it somewhat lacks the realism that ship sim has. the autopilot is pretty useless really, I admit, but the little things like the speedo and touch-controls which allow you to controlo the ship staright of the dash. However, I am aware that this would up the resourse use, so, lets' just stop seeing if we can dig up things from vs. Virtual sailor is a damn good game, prehaps even as a simulator, but I have a feeling ss08 is gonna considerably better...
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That's impressive!
Presumably they only use that for short stops ie whilst waiting to enter harbour. They don't rely on it as the main system, do they?
I mean wouldn't that use a hell of a lot of fuel running the engines up every time there was a tide or current?
Stu
To what are you referring?
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To what are you referring?
Hmmm... If you look above I was referring to QM2s 'virtual anchor'. I mean they surely don't keep the engines running to hold their position when mooring for any length of time.
Stuart
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No, they won't! ;D But it's a very high-end system for waiting to enter port or a lock.
a huge inland-tanker called the "Vlissingen" is equipt (??) with this system as wel, to stay in one position IN locks, because the ship is to heavy to more on the usual mooring-facilitys in the (inland-)locks. :o
The "Vlissingen" is the biggest inland-bunkervessel in the world,for suplying oil to see-ships, and she can use that system for staying alongside the seeship as well.
(http://informatie.binnenvaart.nl/img_schepen/VTVlissingen_kl.jpg)
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Thanks for that.
But would the QM2, on a cruise in the Carribean and it is moored at sea (such as the harbour being too small) for say 12 hours would it use this system still, or run a conventional anchor.
That must use a hell of a lot of diesel to keep the main engines going.
Stu
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Well, my geuss is, that they use conventional anchors for longer periods. I'm pretty sure of that.
Because it would cost to much diesel, indeed.
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Thanks for that.
But would the QM2, on a cruise in the Carribean and it is moored at sea (such as the harbour being too small) for say 12 hours would it use this system still, or run a conventional anchor.
That must use a hell of a lot of diesel to keep the main engines going.
Stu
Actually they use the system quite frequently. They use it in period of where they are standing off before entering a port or such. However, they have at times used it in seas that have an extreme depth. It is preferred, if I recall, they use the physical anchors as now a last resort. These situations being when wind and swells proove too much in fuel consumption. However, it is a primary anchoring system for the vessel. In instances such as all day docking, I have heard that again, pending on weather situations, they primarly will use the physical anchors because the sea bed is shallow enough that the anchors make contact with the ground, which causes increased resistance to the ship, should it beging to shift or move about.
RE: Fuel Consumption: The system, for the moment, is still being considered for how useful it really is for vessels of this size. They have programmed the system to have tolerances, of course. And remember, regardless of whether the ship is anchored or not, her engines and systems are still running to carry the load of the vessels energy consumption and so on. So, I believe the mentality behind this system is that, the systems are running anyways and the engines and thrusters will not be running at high revs throughout the entire duration of the anchoring, they would only really function in low energy consuming bursts (unless the ship is testing the system in a storm - LOL!), which therefore will keep energy consumption to minimal levels. Think about it, if it fired the bow thrusters too hard to reposition itself in the proper parameters, then it would need to fire the opposing thrusters to slow the rotation or even correct it. So, I believe, again, it is very low fuel consuming and operates within certain limits. I imagine, similar to that of cruise control in a car, if certain parameters are met, a small klaxon or notices indicates the system is being overwhelmed by the environment.
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Thanks Dave.
I suppose on a large diesel electric cruise ship there will be at least one main engine running at all times.
Isn't technology getting great. Planes that can fly themselves, ships that can steer themselves... Shame we have to steer cars still!
Stuart
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Thanks Dave.
I suppose on a large diesel electric cruise ship there will be at least one main engine running at all times.
Isn't technology getting great. Planes that can fly themselves, ships that can steer themselves... Shame we have to steer cars still!
Stuart
Actually what you say is true. Even when vessels are in dry dock, they always keep at least one engine at a time running at full load. (of course the rotate the load I think every 24 hours). But yeah, it is essentially now different for the ship. In most cases, from what I understood when I talked to the crew of the Carnival Pride, they keep two engines operational even when the ship is in dock, just in case.
And BTW - Two cars are starting to drive themselvs. The MB S Class with self stopping and accelerating and the new Lexus LX 470 can parallel park itself.
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OK, a techie Q for you. (sorry, bit OT for this thread).
I once went aboard a Royal Navy (not warship) auxilliary ship as a guest and they said the engines needed to run for 2 days, gradually slowing to cool the equipment down after a transatlantic run.
No after coming off a ship sailing for 30 hours, the engines are shut straight down- yet I can't imagine the RN ship getting much hotter than the ferry even after 4 more days.
The ship weights were similar as was the output. The RN ship was maybe 5-10 years older.
So, in this day and age how come they can shut the engines straight down like that.
Stuart
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I think i can answer that partly.
If you shut down the engines without cooling down, they would eventualy crack, because of the temp-differences between the outside and the inside of the engine. The bigger the engine, the bigger the differences, the longer the cooling-down period lasts.
My Deutz main-engine is 47 years old, and that has it's reasons. ;D
It has allways been coold down in the right way. If i would shut it down right after mooring, the Deutz wouldn't last another year. And since i'm very proud of my old engine running so fine, i allways wait for the exhaust-temps getting under 150 degrees Celsius. Then it's safe to shut it down.
How big it is? It rises aprox 2,5 metres above the engine-room floor. Total height would be aprox 3 metres. ;D
Smaller high-rev engines like Caterpillars don't really need to cool-down, allthough it would be better to do so, for a longer life-span.
So, the very big engines in seaships need a much longer time to cool down. This will never change, not by tech or what ever else. ;)
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If I understand, many cruise ships run through a similar cooling process on the engines. Of course, it does depends on the type of engine. A lot of new ships are using new jet turbine style engines, and the cooling on this is different than the typical multi-piston, reciprocating engines. However, engines are not immediately shut off, the RPMs are lowered gradually and then eventually the engine is cut. There is even an automated shut down process that will manage the shut down for you, although the Engineer and Staff Engineer get ability to over-ride the process.
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Thanks Eemspoort. What type of vessel do you have? I'd love to get myself a boat- maybe the Pride of Bilbao or something similar...
But these ferries which keep them running... so you are saying that they are doing it wrong? That would explain the increasing smoke from POBIs exhaust stack last time I was on her.
Even the Dover-Calais ferries shut the engines straight down on arrival. Is there anyway they might be fitted with different cooling systems that keeps the temp down low?
Dave, I've seen a derivative of the Rolls Royce Olympus in a Royal Navy ship- are they really fitting gas turbines to civilian ships? Used to only be in small, fast boats. Technology is changng too quickly for me...
Stuart
Stuart
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Cruise liners often have them The vessels that currently have jet turbines are . . .
Queen Mary 2
Freedom of the Seas
Liberty of the Seas
Radiance of the Seas
Brilliance of the Seas
Aside that I do not know any others. They primarly use these engines to generate most of the electricity for passenger systems, however, they are still equipped with large reciprocating diesel engines, as well. (I think the common configuration is two engines and one turbine).
Ironically, this is the same configuration as the Olympic class. However, instead of being diesel fueled, they were steam. Interesting, eh?
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And all of these ships, pending on the engine production plant, have such a variety of cooling systems, I think some sustain much more rapid shut downs then others with better ability. So. I would not be surprised if large engines can become shut down faster.
Also, here is a good point - why do you think the emergency shut down is called emergency? Because they don't want engines suddenly stopping too soon too often, eh? HA HA! Just being a smarty, no offence, mate.
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Now that makes sense- having a mixture of engine types.
When all now electric transmission, you run into port slowly using a couple of small engines and then when tied up you can shut down quickly (except the generators) and the main big engines most likely are slowed down as you say, maybe miles from land.
Stu
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Well, remember, when a shipped is moored up, more often than not at least one engine is still running. Take cruise ships for example. When they moor up either at their final destination or a port of call, you can monitor the funnel and the engine vents and hear that the engine, or at least the turbine, is still operating at strong capacity. And we are not talking SMALL turbines, but ones that are the size of a medium bus. Also, you can always observe the funnel and you will see the entire time the vessel is moored, some smoke is always slipping from the funnel.
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Also, and the large cruise ships keep all the engines running until they are moored up. It is just since they are at reduced speeds, the engines are naturally cooling down since they are not producing the same output as if out to sea. So as you say, yes, the cooling process begins from sea to port, however, they are still in use.
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For manoeuvring (stations), as for entering particular areas (some traffic separation schemes), you need on the contrary to have all manoeuvring capability ready, engines running, propeller shaft generators decoupled, rudder pumps, etc... and Dave is quite right with the cooling.
But main engines will be shut down, and the cooling will continue (with secundary pumps) depending on the timing set from the bridge. Generators will continue running, of course. Passenger liners need to stay in standby during a cruise, I suppose? Ready to leave if the natives became dangerous. And they need much more electricity than any cargo ship.
Steam turbines burn(ed) fuel n° 2 or later diesel oil from the twenties on, I think? With heavy fuel you need to keep boilers and fuel lines warm.
Regards,
Luc
Yes, you are quite right.
In the steamer days, they dare not let a boiler come offline unless it was a must. It took about 7 hours to pressurize and get the boiler to a point to where it would significantly contribute to the power supply system, hence why steamers always burned.
In the case of modern cruise liners, you are right again, the simple demand on the system sustains that the load to require usually the jet turbine (or one reciprocating engine on older cruisers) while exchanging one passenger group for another (Such as when QM2 docks in NY, dumps off all her passengers and takes on a fresh load before leaving the same evening). From what I understand, they do disengage the reciprocating engines AFTER they are docked, and as I mentioned due to their reduced output, they are already in the cooling process before docking is even completed, and then as Luc mentioned, auxiliary cooling systems often engage to aid in the shut down process.
While these cruise liners are at a port of call, however, they cycle the engines on and off (aside the turbine, of course) and about 45 minutes before departure all systems are brought completely online and all systems inspected safe for departure.
As for larger, container or cargo vessels, yes, shut down is a different story. Generators are kept online the entire time and no major turbines such as the ones as cruise liners are on board or needed. I still thought that the engine for the most part was kept online, just at extremely low revs, unless it was staying over night . . .
So thanks for the knowledge, Luc! You are full of incredible info!
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I know that on Pride of Bilbao the engines are switched off as soon as tied up (as a mechanical gearbox with variable pitch the electric generators are seperate rather than fully electric transmission).
Although at both ends of the route shes only doing 5 kts for about 2-3 (stat) miles so as Dave says, then engines are beginning to cool down.
Typical anyway. I had an invite to visit the engineering areas of POBI, but the officer concerned has left. Shame as I'd love to see below decks (I used to travel regularly and got to know many of the crew).
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Big diesel engines (MAN B&W for instance) are stopped because they have a minimum speed up to 30% of their max RPM. With a fixed pitch, it could be enough for 4 to 5 kts!
Regards,
Luc
Interesting. So when the vessels are running below those speeds, what is used then?
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They stick oars over the side and row backwards ;)
Stu
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LOL!!! :D :D
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Stuart, see my avator, that's my ship. An inland-bulk carrier. ;)
Okay, that picture is a bit small....
(http://80.61.139.206/Ship/Nl/E/Im/Eemspoort%20Delfzijl%20(7).JPG)
(http://80.61.139.206/Ship/Nl/E/Im/Eemspoort%20Delfzijl%20(8).JPG)
And my main-engine!
(http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/6986/dcp0177uh2.jpg)
On-topic:
Well, i've learned something more about seaship-engines now! This is a good exsample of the big differences between inland-ships and sea-ships.
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Nice. Thanks for showing them.
That's a hell of a diesel engine- whats the draught- I didn't realise how big the engine room would be.
Stu
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Nice. Thanks for showing them.
That's a hell of a diesel engine- whats the draught- I didn't realise how big the engine room would be.
Stu
I agree!
She is a nice ship, though. Very nice indeed! Pricey I am sure.
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Question - why the car atop the superstructure?
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The draught? Erm...that's how deep my ship goes, isn't it? Fully loaded (1085 tons) she goes 2,72 meter.
On the picture she lies 2,40 meter. Empty she lies 1,40 meter astern.
The height in the engine-room is aprox 2 meter above the floor-plates, but theres a shaft above the engine, that goes way up to the upper deck, so the engine has enough clearance, and a way to get out, if nescesery (i hope not!!).
AriesDW: Thanks for the compliment! :D Pricey? Not as pricey as you think, i geuss... If you give me 400.000 euro's, she yours, and you can keep the car! ;D :P
About the car on top of my "home", thats my car, and i take it everywhere. The ship is in Bremen, and i am @ home right now, thanks to that old Mondeo. :D If you look again, you will see, there's a crane next to the car and the exhaust, the so called "autokraan", in free english, the car-crane. That's specialy for taking a car on or from the ship, wherever you need it. Comfy, eh? ;)
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HA HA Talk about convenience. What is your loading, offloading time of the Mondeo?
Mondeos are good cars - I love the design of the new one.
Only 400K? WOW! That is very reasonable. Houses where I live in the US go for $600K. HA HA HA! I would much rather have a beauty like your vessel and cruise about with a car to go for the money. So you are not always living on the vessel, right? You have a land-based home as well? How often are you onboard and conducting business?
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Only 400K? WOW! That is very reasonable. Houses where I live in the US go for $600K. HA HA HA! I would much rather have a beauty like your vessel and cruise about with a car to go for the money. So you are not always living on the vessel, right? You have a land-based home as well? How often are you onboard and conducting business?
Yes Dave, but the running cost if you were to use it for non commercial use would be a bit more expensive than a Mondeo...
Stu
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HA HA HA! Indeed. However, being the US is in an energy crisis, our electricity and petrol costs are enormous!
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PLus! I am a businessman! I would find uses for her to make PLENTY of money. I might haveta hire the current owner to help me keep her busy. ;)
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Allthough it is off-topic, i believe the are more people interested, so i hope the mods forgive me. ;D
I can (un)load the Mondeo in aprox 5 minutes.
The Mondeo is a good car indeed, allthough it will be replaced in a while, because it's to small for my family. ;)
I'm looking for an Opel Omega Estate(omg, you don't know that in the USA, right? Erm.. Holden Monaro? Pontiac LeMans, but then as a 4 door estate? All copy's ;) ) or a Beemer 5 series Estate. ;D
400k is reasonable, but she's not the youngest one arround, offcourse. She is 47 years old now, same goes for the engine. Newer and bigger ship go for millions, and often aren't as nice to see as older ships. :'(
A home isn't cheap here in Holland as well. We rent a home in the city Groningen, but are looking to buy somewhere else.
Most of the time i'm on the ship, i go home whenever i can, moslty in the weekends. But time isn't allways helping me. I have to load in Bremen on sunday-morning 6 AM EU-time. So this is a short weekend... :(
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HA HA HA! Indeed. However, being the US is in an energy crisis, our electricity and petrol costs are enormous!
You are taking the P**S this time Dave. We pay nearly £1.00 per litre for petrol and diesel now.
Your prices may have gone up, but nothing like ours. I spend £1000s each year on our fleet. Ouch
Stu
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PLus! I am a businessman! I would find uses for her to make PLENTY of money. I might haveta hire the current owner to help me keep her busy. ;)
Ill go halfs with you. Always wanted to start a shipping company ;)
Stu
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LOL, i'm sorry mate, but no use for her in the USA, because of the (stupid) CoastGuard regulations for inland-shipping. Thats why most inland water transports in the USA go with barges and 1 push-boat.
I really would like to do bussines on the Mississippi or in the Great Lakes area, but then i would need 4 or more men as personal....like seaships have to....
Oh, and the running-costs are fairly high, the main-engine consumes 160 litres of diesel every hour when full steam ahead. ;D My fuel capacity: 22.000 litres... Any-one like to fill her up some time and pick up the tab?? ;D
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Any-one like to fill her up some time and pick up the tab?? ;D
LOL, pass :P
I'm going over there now to hide :P ------>
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LOL, i'm sorry mate, but no use for her in the USA, because of the (stupid) CoastGuard regulations for inland-shipping. Thats why most inland water transports in the USA go with barges and 1 push-boat.
I really would like to do bussines on the Mississippi or in the Great Lakes area, but then i would need 4 or more men as personal....like seaships have to....
Oh, and the running-costs are fairly high, the main-engine consumes 160 litres of diesel every hour when full steam ahead. ;D My fuel capacity: 22.000 litres... Any-one like to fill her up some time and pick up the tab?? ;D
Who says I would bring her here? PFFT!
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Ahrg, to bad! It sounded like music to me, when you said, you maybe wanted to hire the previous owner! I saw myself sailing the New York harbour for real allready! Bummer... ;) ;D
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HA HA HA! But you just said we could not use her here!
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I've seen vessels smaller than yours go out into open water- Dover Calais (even seen a british canal boat- beam about 8 1/2 ft!).
I realise you are joking about new york, but joking aside how would a vessel of that size be transported internationally?
Stu
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If you deliver the people i need, i can sail her over there! ;)
Let's face it, it's just a dream that never happens, but i would sure like to make a trip to the USA on day, to observe and learn from inland-shipping over there.
Stuart: It isn't the size that matters in this case, it's the way how the ship is build, and with what purpose.
My ship is heavely build for an inland-ship, but it isn't build to go out to sea. On a good day with calm weather i surely could make it to London and steam up the Thames, no problem for the ship, but my ship isn't registered as a sea-going vessel, therefore, i would not even make it outside, because the CoastGuard would pick me up... ::)
But i think, my ship would do well in the New York area, as well as on the Mississippi, and so on.
But if you mean following, my ship could be transported on a HeavyLifter seaship or on a sea-going barge to USA or whatever place you like.
In history, there are Dutch inland-vessels exported to several country's. I only know of Afrika (don;t know the particular country) and England. Yes, England! ;D
And now i'm going to bed, and read your reply's tomorow, with a nice cup of coffee! ;)
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A sea going transport or heavy lifter would do the job of transporting his vessels across the Atlantic, or any large, rough body of water. I honestly see the versatility of American pushers - however, I have to say, they are DAMN ugly and I am sometimes doubtful of pushing large barges that are barely held together. I like the idea of Eemsports vessel and similar design. It is a more solid, more appealing vessel, and apparently very successful. I think, however, a hybrid of both vessel types has yet to be built and discovered that might make a more solid and yet a more versatile vessel.
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Luc: Its a Deutz RBV-6M 545, so with turbo-charger and aftercooler, bringing 800 HP on 380 RPM. Because of the low maximum RPM it doesn't need a reduction. So it's 1-on-1 on the screw.
And yes, at the time of the picture he was maintenenced, the exhaust-mainfolds are repaired, and the heat-exchanger was repaired.
AriesDW: The motor-vessels are very succesfull here in Europ, indeed. However, we have many barges on the river Rijn (Rhine), so we know that kind of transportation as well. ;)
And now for your idea...
(http://80.61.139.206/Ship/Nl/N/Im/Nomadisch%20Zwijndrecht%20(Koppel%205).JPG)
(http://80.61.139.206/Ship/Nl/N/Im/Nomadisch%20Zwijndrecht%20(Koppel%206).JPG)
Been there, don that! ;D ;)
Well, if this is what you mean by a hybrid between motorvessel and barge.
They are very popular in the Netherlands for many years now. Offcourse they don't only sail in the Netherlands, you can find them primarly on the Rhine.
Luc: It seems to me you know your way in Inland-shipping. May i ask, what you do for a living?
Maybe i could open a topic on this subject, since the last posts here concern real shipping instead of SimShipping. ;D
For further Q's visit the new topic here: http://www.shipsim.com/ShipSimForum/index.php/topic,406.new.html#new (http://www.shipsim.com/ShipSimForum/index.php/topic,406.new.html#new)
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The problem in the US is (as Eemspoort has indicated) manning regulations. They are the reason there are no small ships here anymore except a few research vessels. A "tug" needs only a captain and a deckhand, while a "ship" needs a whole crew roster. These regs were put into place at the urging of the seamen's union after many, many years of dangerous undermanning, but they have now somewhat outlived their usefulness.
So now we see coastwise trade dominated by "articulated" tug-barge combinations, and inland shipping by "towboats" (which are actually pushboats) and huge rafts of barges. The towboats are basically the back-ends of ships -- all engine and a little housing -- and the big "line-haul" boats on rivers like the Mississippi run 24/7 dropping off one tow of barges and picking up another, back and forth.
There are also specialized smaller "turning boats" that do the job of moving the barges around at the ends of a run, sorta like the switch engines on a railroad.
As to ugly, well, that is of course in the eye of the beholder.
Cheers,
Michael
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Thank you for adding this info! I couldn't find i way myself to explain this in propper writing. :D
I have made a new topic on this (and other real-life) matter(s) in the "Small Talk"-section.
http://www.shipsim.com/ShipSimForum/index.php/topic,406.new.html#new (http://www.shipsim.com/ShipSimForum/index.php/topic,406.new.html#new)
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As to ugly, well, that is of course in the eye of the beholder.
Cheers,
Michael
Indeed, that is true. I meant no offence.
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anchors? yes or no?
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anchors? yes or no?
Yes, anchors are available for use :)
Regards.
DJM.
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Yes, anchors are available for use :)
Regards.
DJM.
NIIIICCCEEE!!! ;D It seems to me, that SS08 really has a LOT more features then SS06 isn't it? Great! Can't wait for the boxed version!