Ship Simulator
English forum => Ship Simulator Extremes => General discussions => Topic started by: ACR on February 12, 2012, 23:33:12
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hello ladies and gents !
after being a shipsim fan since ss08 i again started playing ss extremes after a longer stop and just played some free roaming missions. i am stucked to free roaming since the single player missions have sometimes really stupid and unrealistic goals without giving any of the spirit of steering a ship.
in free roaming , beyond several bugs, the game after some time starts to get very blunt without any joy. you just drive a ship in an very closed enviroment ( and without any chance of mooring in free roaming ) , equipped with a steering gear and a thruster and thats it.
there is no way of a common longer mission ( e.g drive a container ship from europe to USA or similar) , there are no deeper system operatings ( ballasting due to differnet loads, engine sytems and many more) , even the lightning of the ships is very basic- in general you just drive around with a more or less good modelled ship , not more.
further there are no wind effects and drifting, the waves seems to be very simple designed, no different wave lenghts etc... - getting to a pier is so silly simple, no kind of challange due to currents, winds etc -just for kids.
every few new ship is charged , no community for freeware in scenarios or ships or physics, well...
at ss08 times i bought avery new addon, currently i do not see a sense to spend any more money in a simulation of thatkind.
am i missing some crucial ideas how to enjoy ss extremes or - sorry for my ignorance- is this game really that blunt and stupid without any future ?
best regards
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Well, I can not help you with your question. Your opinion of the game is almost exactly the same as mine.
The only thing I do not agree with is that the game has no future. I still have a hope(I may be naiv), that Vstep will open the program so everyone can add ships and enviroments to the game as you can with Microsofts Flightsimulator. In the begining we will truly get a lot of freeware ships which are not so good, squarish and with no good behvior and which are no meaning to download, as with FSX. But then will companies start to make great ships and utilities which makes the game worth to use, like FSX. SSE and FSX is both good basic programs, but what makes FSX as good as it is and that I have not get bored with it, is all the add on's. And when this happens, more and more persons will find that you can create a great Shipsimulator game as you can with FSX, so will also more person buy SSE from Vstep so everyone will earn on it. And them who are satisfied with how the program is now, them do not need to buy any add on's. Also a bit like racing games, you can choose a mode where everything is adjusted automatic and you only have to drive and brake and turn, or you can choose to use the whole simulation and do all adjustments of the car by your self. A real choice for the customer, like a five year old child was angry on me that I had let him play on 'amateur' level and not the real game, and when I told him that it was the only level there is the one he had used. Then he just laughed and said that I have been fooled, and that the game is not a simulator. That was his opinion. But I realy, realy hope that Vstep will see this and let their game become the success as I think it can be.
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I'd like to suggest what you could do with the game.
But unfortunately, I'd be barred for it. :evil:
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hello ACR,
if you want free roaming to be literally "free roaming", then i guess you haven't been free roaming enough. SSE's numerous ports are fun to explore (I recommend Rotterdam) and for just plain-old pointless roaming, the Atlantic Ocean is great for that!
About not being able to do big trips; the nearest thing in SSE to doing big ocean trips is the Dover-Calais trip.
And about a lack of moorings, you have to click the check box "toggle ships on/off" in the Select a Start Position menu.
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am i missing some crucial ideas how to enjoy ss extremes or - sorry for my ignorance- is this game really that blunt and stupid without any future ?
Hi ACR,
I agree that Extremes can get boring very quickly, especially if you stick to the basic free roaming provided in the Menus. Part of the boredom is inherent in the nature of the game as compared to, for instance, a train simulator like RW3 that can provide many more opportunities for interaction and a much greater variety in vehicles and routes—the rough equivalent of environments—than it is currently feasible for Extremes to do.
The architecture and the software used in the development would make it difficult, if not impractical, to provide, at a cost they could afford, third parties with the tools necessary to make ships or environments that could be simply installed in the game. However, I doubt that the game can survive long unless the insatiable demand for new stuff can be satisfied at a rate approaching that attained in RW3.
I don’t agree with “blunt and stupidâ€, but I think there is considerable doubt about its future.
My purpose in this post, however, is by correcting some of your misconceptions to help you to find a bit more pleasure in the game:
The possibilities in the free-roaming provided in the main menu are severely limited compared to what can be done by setting up your own free roam with the Mission Editor.
You can, indeed, travel to two or more ports in your own free roam, and have more than one player ship—handy if you happen to sink one because the game will not end when the ship sinks if you leave her in time.
You can have whatever ships or barges you want for towing, and have mooring bollards wherever you want. There are, in fact, many mooring points in the supplied free-roams, but you need to enable them first.
The sea is composed of three independent wave trains; each can have a different height set relative to the others. Each wave train can have its velocity/wavelength set differently from the others.
As for the “stupid and unrealistic goals†in the missions: You have an opportunity to do a great service to your fellow users by submitting missions for downloading that set a higher standard for the other creators.
Regards,
Marty
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It would be nice to have a new update.. :)
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thank you very much gentlemen for your hints and inputs !
@rbsanford: very good hint, i must day i missed it and enabling the ships will enable mooring points, my fault !
@mvsmith : also thanks to you for your comments! when it come to "blunt and stupd" i think i somehow truly is since you have just a steering gear / thruster and a throttle- thats about the whole simulation. even when we have to agree that steering a ship is a crucial point in a "simulation" the steering physics remember of plaing ping ball on a atari computer. there is absolutely no effect in currents or winds when it comes to steer and to moore a ship - its synthetic in its very basic issues and a kid can easily moor a +300meter container ship in this game, where - agreeing that full realizm cannot be given- it should be a far more challange.
beyond this all big ships can be basicly eliminated from this game since they have absolutely no sense. you steer easily ( like said in a syntehtic, very basic behauvior) the veermaas out of rotterdam and.... thats it. since there is no consecutive possibility of a mission ( typically crossing the atlantic on time with a economical fuel burn) after leaving port the enviroment ends and thats it. ship simulator aims for simulating the merchant marine, and the duty of the merchant marine is not crashing into thinks, sinking the ships etc but delivering good in a efficient and economically matter and doing it on time. no fuel burn, no different loads , nothing- steering a big container ship out of port and then quitting or just wsitching to lets say sydney is as blunt as it can be.
when it comes to the limitation of third party free addons and improvements i think the impossibility is intentionally designed by vstep since they did not want to have freeware here but sell every little ship with as best marketing as possible. when frustration comes the usesr have already paid for it.
the only sense which may make any sense are ferry missions between calais and dover as well thze solent and maybe some port authority shipping around rotterdam.
beyond this , like said, the game is in my opinion - especially with the container ships, crude and gas tankers etc. as blunt as it can be because of the above mentioned reasons.
when not a major breakthrogh in further possibilities ( loading, ballasting, consecutive mission in delivering cargo on an efficient matter etc) as well an opening to the community in developing freeware will come, the game will beyond some real kids having fun for some minutes in crashing speed boats into piers , quit.
vstep earned some money with it and thats it- like they gave us a steering gear and a port and thats it.
best regards to all
vstep earned some money with it
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Well,
it is almost the same since the beginning of the ShipSimulator story. It is a game to sail/handle different ships in a halfway realistic manner. Many, many hours were spend by VSTEP and foremost by Luc to get the ship dynamics as realistic as possible. Unfortunately, I have to agree, we didn't get any type of tidal, wind or stream current influence by now, that's only part of the professional version. Discreet attempts to add them in SS08 have been withdrawn from development after a short while.
It was never said or even planned to add an extensive cargo handling feature to the game. And it really makes little sense to open the environments for cross-ocean trips, it is boring and you would ask for an accelerator to shorten the voyage!
VSTEP is working on a patch to improve the multiplayer behaviours, hopefully we will see less flying objects and more towing or other common actions then.
Best regards
@ACR: VSTEP surely earns money with it, they are not working a in honorary basis.. ;)
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If I may, I would like to submit the idea that what vstep has created is undoubtedly technically clever, and smart looking too.
I have great respect for Luc and his technical knowledge- having read some of his highly technical posts I have no doubt that he is the best man for the design of the physics engine; yet I have also learned that when all that is done there is still some tweaking to bring the model to act in a way that 'feels' right- thereby suggesting that the whole model doesn't work in the way planned anyway (a comment on the software, NOT Luc!)
However, given that to nearly all of us here, other than the few experienced mariners, one type of ship will handle like another of a similar design- the argument that it is too complicated to add a new physics model (the real reason for not allowing third party add ons we're told) is quite frankly not going to hold water. That is to say, given the limitation of the game, copying the dynamics of POR and adding it to a model of, for example, on of the competing Stena giants is not going to be noticed by the likes of a gamer on a desktop pc.
In car parlance, I'd say shipsim is a set of beautifully engineered hubcaps, with the rest missing.
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ACR, your describtion of the game is totaly the same opinion of the game as I have.
Since shipsimulator 2006 so have nothing of the simulation been developed, it has more or less been moving backwards, like in 2008 you could turn on and of the engines, but that was removed in SSE(developed backwards). That the graphics and the behvavior of the ships have become better is just natural with that computer hardware have become better.
SSE was released for about 1 1/2 year ago, and every single update or release of a ship have added a new bug, even if some have been removed. I know that this teori sounds like a corruption teori, but it seems like Vstep have added a new bug to keep the interest up for the game. Think if the game was perfect(as it was thought to be, driving around with 'dead' ships in 'dead' enviroments), what would then have kept the interest of the game up??? A new ship to steer around with???
This game is overpriced and should be in the same categori and price group as the other so called simulator games(like forklift sim, woodcutter sim and the others who have just copied the name of Ms Flight sim), 20 Euro's is what it is worth in my opinion.
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Wiqvist,
I would suggest that the real problem here is that although vstep are clearly competent at creating programmes, their commercial sense is missing, presumed dead.
They have released add ons and then been surprised at the lack of demand, yet they clearly haven't looked at WHY that is. Their whole commercial model is quite poor. Which is a shame as there is so much potential there.
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Widquist, which advantages do you hope to get by turning on and off the engines?
I know, diesel is quite expensive nowadays, but here you've even got a flatrate!
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...beside that, you can't switch on and off larger engines with a button from the wheelhouse.. :doh:
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It was never said or even planned to add an extensive cargo handling feature to the game. And it really makes little sense to open the environments for cross-ocean trips, it is boring and you would ask for an accelerator to shorten the voyage!
of course an acclerator and an autopilot would be needed, otherwise you would spend days or weeks infront the computer :doh: silent hunter shows that an open enviroment with an acclerator can be modelled easily , limited fuel also.
the idea is to steer the big ships cross the ocean without delay but with economic speed and fuel burn in regards to different weather situations. ( the weather should also change dynamically, maybe even the possibility of download and implement real weather.
when such is missing, what sense makes a +300meter container ship? do you want do steer it between dover and calais???
surely vstep has skilled programmers and more than now given would be possible, but i somehow understand that they want to keep the distance between the professional and the private version for economical reasons.
on the other hand , when you look into train or flightsimulation and see what is possible today , the argument "you cannot expect this and that feature for 40 euro " is dump and comparing the flight deck of some flight simulator addons with the bridge of pride of rotterdam in SSE makes you just laugh.
long story short conclusion-i do not think any real improvements will happen, so i look when playing sse how to make the best joy of it. i think ferry missions between dover and calais are currently the best option.
the idea of simulating merchant marine is in my eyes an interesting one-maybe in the future somebody will pick this up and create a real simulation of this .
best regards
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@ACR:
the idea of simulating merchant marine is in my eyes an interesting one-maybe in the future somebody will pick this up and create a real simulation of this .
If you want to simulate merchant marine, use Ports of Call in stead of SSE2010. Ports of Call is intended for that purpose.
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of course an acclerator and an autopilot would be needed, otherwise you would spend days or weeks infront the computer :doh: silent hunter shows that an open enviroment with an acclerator can be modelled easily , limited fuel also.
But why?
the idea is to steer the big ships cross the ocean without delay but with economic speed and fuel burn in regards to different weather situations. ( the weather should also change dynamically, maybe even the possibility of download and implement real weather.
Then you'll need great circle navigation to make it real. Who's able to work with it?
when such is missing, what sense makes a +300meter container ship? do you want do steer it between dover and calais???
For berthing and navigation close to the shore and river banks.
surely vstep has skilled programmers and more than now given would be possible, but i somehow understand that they want to keep the distance between the professional and the private version for economical reasons.
on the other hand , when you look into train or flightsimulation and see what is possible today , the argument "you cannot expect this and that feature for 40 euro " is dump and comparing the flight deck of some flight simulator addons with the bridge of pride of rotterdam in SSE makes you just laugh.
long story short conclusion-i do not think any real improvements will happen, so i look when playing sse how to make the best joy of it. i think ferry missions between dover and calais are currently the best option.
the idea of simulating merchant marine is in my eyes an interesting one-maybe in the future somebody will pick this up and create a real simulation of this .
best regards
Would be great all in all, but even for a very small group of enthusiasts, eh?
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@ACR:
If you want to simulate merchant marine, use Ports of Call in stead of SSE2010. Ports of Call is intended for that purpose.
thanks for the hint, i did not know this game and looked into it- sound interesting. nevertheless ports of call seem to be more from the eye of an shipping company not the skipper of one ship. i spoke about the tactical decisions standing on the brindge, not the strategic from the company view.
@bottman: you seem to be very happy with SSE i see, do you really think the way sse goes gives vstep a future on the private market?
best regards
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Well, very happy seems to be a little bit undue. But yes, I like it from the very beginning until now. Many improvements were made since 2006 and my very own wishlist is still a long one. But many of those ideas have been completed by VSTEP. Since I don't wanna play with cranes and all that non-navigational stuff, I'm indeed comfortable with the game. I would like to have locks as well as loads of bollards in every environment, but I had several exciting hours with the multiplayer and similar ticking users. I hardly like playing missions, although I have created lots of them in the past.
I don't know, if VSTEP's way is on the right path for the upcoming years, but until now there isn't any alternative for me.
Best regards
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There is nothing to do. We talk and talk about the same things, but VStep doesn't reply. No more money from my pocket for VStep while the things don't change. I can't avoid the impression VStep need our money, but they don't love us. VStep is not showing "fair play" with us. They are playing with our hopes. My friends, I return back to my flight deck.
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guys guys guys!
the best way to improve the joy of playing SSE is to be happy with what you have and not whine to vstep about the bugs.
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Hi
V-Step just can not win no matter The Pilot D.L.C FREE a thank you to members
2008 Jumbo Javelin Free.
But lets not think about the good side lets just have a good moan till they give us
something else Free then they will be great for 5 mins till the next moan.
Eric
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Widquist, which advantages do you hope to get by turning on and off the engines?
Now I think you missunderstood me, I just mentioned it as a thing which have been removed from the simulation of a ship. I of cource agree with that it is not so very realistic but at least a bit more realistic than the perpetual motion machines the boats/ships having now. One thing which I think the majority of the games simulating vehicle's with engine's is that you have to refuel them. But not the ships in SSE they run forever.
One thing I do not understand with this forum, is why them who are satisfied with the game have to take it so personal when we who have whishes about that the game should be more focused on the simulation part. Most post of them who are not satisfied with that the simulation part is so minimal(speed and steering), are full of suggestions of what could have made the game to a simulator game. But it is human to mostly remeber the negativ in a text a person have read, than the positive suggestions(them are often the first persons forget from a text), and here some seems to read only half posts. Come on why can we not discuss this things without being unfriendly???
It is fine with being just satisfied with what we have, but nothing have been developed by persons who have just sat down and been satisfied. The car was not invented by a person who was satisfied with horse and wagon.
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And another thing, there seems to be one big difference between persons like Acr, Tinchu, me self and persons like Rbsanford and Sadsid are that we three first persons just wish a Shipsimulator game for simulator gamers. Like Trainsimulator, FSX and also X-plane, program's which simulate a vehicle as much as possible instead of SSE as simulate as little as possible. We are different gamers I think. And non is 'better' than the other, some like it as simple as possible and some like it a bit more complicated.
Since december have I only been using plane's from A2A simulation(their accusim aircrafts), and as a person wrote in a review, the most negative with their aircrafts is that they totaly ruin all the other payware aircrafts, cause it makes the others look like cheap freeware products. This aircrafts are the most realistic I have seen so far, with all instruments working. You who have FSX, try them, they are expensive but as a pilot said it is as close you can come to own a real aircraft with out owning one. But once I read a person at a forum(not here), he complained that he could not just fly the aircraft, he did not like to follow how heat and fuel change on the instrument, he liked everything to be automatic so he could just steer and controle the speed. That person should not have bought such an advanced aircraft, he could have downloaded some freeware instead of buying one of this expensive(but worthy), aircrafs. The reason that I tell about it here is that it seems like them who are satisfied with the game are like him and then there is some others like me self who would have liked also ships like this.
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It is fine with being just satisfied with what we have, but nothing have been developed by persons who have just sat down and been satisfied. The car was not invented by a person who was satisfied with horse and wagon.
Ones again, some of us are satisfied with the status we have, compared to the past, but we still have lots of wishes and suggestions. And we won't have the current status of the game without them. Therefore we stay in a more or (sometimes :'() less close contact to the developers. According to the fuel request, VSTEP has made a stand alone game with a fuel saving feature, but it wasn't that exciting. It's typical for almost every commercial ship not running out of fuel due to their enormous bunker capacity. But we've asked VSTEP to add bunker boats or barges to the game a while ago... :sleepy:
Best regards
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Hi
V-Step just can not win no matter The Pilot D.L.C FREE a thank you to members
2008 Jumbo Javelin Free.
But lets not think about the good side lets just have a good moan till they give us
something else Free then they will be great for 5 mins till the next moan.
Eric
You're a strange one, Eric. The jj was not free as such, but paid for by the real ship owner as a marketing gimmick. No idea what the pilot is to which you refer.
But I can not help but think that vstep has treated a lot of these blokes quite shabbily. To me and many others, the cost of buying this highly questionable software is immaterial and represents just a few hours worth of wages. To many here it represents months of saving pocket money and quite frankly vstep is treating them like the proverbial. I've no idea what you do for a living, but if you do it to the same sloppy standard as vstep then you're in real trouble.
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User created content in SSE?
An interesting idea, just think where that could lead?
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without any doubt- and i do not blame them for that- vstep aim for the goal to earn as much as possible with as little as possible development costs.
so lacks and bugs are overriden in a promotive marketing before release, after that you already have paid.
i think we can agree that not a major breakthrough will happen so we have three scenarios here :
1) vstep is satisfied with the earnings up to now vs development costs and has quit further development beyond new payware ships .
2)they give us small further updates with a big promotions to keep further cashflow for the base program
3)they intentionally aim for the kids with this software , which like to race in ribs and speedboats and crash eachother ( maybe in multiplayer)
in my opinions somehow all three scenarios are true- the most thrust lies between 1 and 2.
we have to realize that this forums are locked to a order licence and nobody can read this before purchasing- AFTER purchasing you already paid... think a minute...
i must say that i fully respect vstep for the marketing of SSE . when ss08 came out many of us felt the potential in thiskind of simulation and after some very tricky screenshots as well new waves etc. many users believed that the breakthrough will come they always wished.
i think that in 2012 calling something a simulator which has a steering gear and a throttle is a joke . and i think vstep is not interested in opinions here but ONLY in their earnings vs development costs to maximize the output of SSE since they already feel that a SSE2 will not happen.
best regards
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we have to realize that this forums are locked to a order licence and nobody can read this before purchasing- AFTER purchasing you already paid... think a minute...
ACR, as you for sure know so do I agree with most of your opinions over the game, but just a little correction here. A non member of this forum can actually read 'General discussions', but not the other one's. So you have choosen to post this thread at the right place, hihi.
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thanks wiqvist, you are pretty right, i messed this up - the general discussion is indeed also for non members ! :thumbs: