Ship Simulator
English forum => Ship Simulator Extremes => Topic started by: dexter7 on February 04, 2012, 06:14:32
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Hmph, how many bugs since 1.4?* I'll give a Random guess.. Maybe Twenty.. But really! I am not going to buy any Addons until, the main game is Fixed. Which that means MP bugs, AI bugs, Vstep Mission issues, Crashes, Countless other bugs... :-\
Sure addons are nice but, Vstep should start focusing on fixing bugs and crashes, then I might buy some Addons.
Now, I might get Banned, but It's true, I might come across these bugs, I will not be happy.
* In the Bug report topic.. Not to mention the countless topics in the Tech support board..
Dex :)
Geez, I need some bug spray! :doh:
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Yes of cource. I totaly agree with you.
And if you should get banned cause of this thread, which I have hard to belive, so should at least I leave the forum together in protest.
When the last update came out and I of many took up a lot of things as were reported but not fixed by the last update, we were all told that it was not the last update and that it should come more update. Now it has as usuall come more bugs in the game with the two ships released after that update. And as usuall we have got the information that persons are working on it, and now they have worked another halfyear with no news or any info about an update. If only one person had worked full time with this game, he had worked many hours sinse September. So this update must be realy big.
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Hi Dex!
Nobody will ban you, if you are talking about issues in the game. VSTEP knows them and they are still working on another patch. I don't know, if it will fix all the bugs you are thinking about, but I fear it won't. Guess some minor bugs are acceptable since they don't disturb the gameplay itself. Other bug reports are under construction or even fixed, but in beta status. So, don't give up too early - we all fully understand your frustration.
Best regards
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I'm not sure why "minor" bugs would be acceptable. I belive that most people (including myself) would like to See Vstep throw as much man-power at SSE as possible, so that NO bugs remain. Because, after all, NO bugs is the ONLY acceptable standard. I doubt this is going to happen, word on the "street" is that SSE only has a active development team of 5. That number apprently includes the 3D artists ::)
Can someone offical (IE swenson) Give us there word that the patch is going to be released on X date, and give us a idea of what is going to be fixed? (IE a changelog). It might help restore some of the community's faith in Vstep to fix what they've broke.
@dex,
I don't think a bug spray would work, try a flamethrower or something :doh:
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So, don't give up too early - we all fully understand your frustration.
Bottman, it is nothing against you or any other moderator, but the game have been out for one and a half year about. So I think it would be totaly understandable if most persons had give up on this game. Also add that from Vstep it is not coming many words about the future plans.
Danny, sadly I do agree with all you add, but I do not think you will get a public answer on all this questions from Vstep.
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I'm not sure why "minor" bugs would be acceptable.
Well, I play SSE almost every day and I'm above-average in posting bug reports to VSTEP since I've joined the community in 2006. I hate every single bug as much as you do, but in general I'm able to play the one and only realistic ship simulator game. Several things could be done better, surely. But I can't believe, that this game or any other software will become bugless at all.
@wiquist: No problem, I'll never take any critism personally. We moderators are here to keep the contact between the community and VSTEP. Sometimes it works good, sometimes better.. ;)
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But I can't believe, that this game or any other software will become bugless at all.
Whilst its true that no software is bug-proof, most companies which develop software will throw as many resources as they have at there disposal to fix the bugs. Take Vehical simulator for example, its not great software (infact its rather sucky) but they release regular bug-fixes, when compared to Vsteps 4 patches....
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There seem to be a number of bugs in Extremes..
I think it would be a shame if VStep gave up on SS2008 MP because:
a: my humble computer copes with the game quite easily
b: I meet other players there that seem equally interested in and capable of handling their ships.. :)
Only major bug: the 'jumping' of ships sailing faster than 5-10kn..
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The ship simulator's fans we have an incredible patience. But this patience is because there is no other ship simulator in the market.
After six or more years of development is incomprehensible this software be so insecure, short of performances, short of sceneries...
Is impossible the developers don't see the program and the consecutives updates and patches have new bugs, and however they have the audacity to put them on the website; like freeware o payware.
I know ship simulator is only a game. But is a business product too. It's a lack of seriousness. With any other product Vstep could have judicial denounces or with consumption associations.
I insist here again with a question: If Vstep is making simulation software for corporative market and professional institutions and they have a ship simulator professional so nice, why they are selling to us this deficient product. And I'm using the word deficient, because I'm a well-mannered person.
Please Vstep. Talk to me about your strategist. How many Ship Simulator Professional units have you sold?
We deserve better treatment. We are being mistreated.
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Tinchu, I of cource agree also with you.
One thing I do not understand with that company, it is often said that Vsted is a small company, but they act like they should be a big one. Big companies are more often known for that they do not care about their customers, if they loose one or 100 it does not matter cause they will have 100 new the same day. But small companies like Vstep are usually more interested in keeping their customers, and show interest in what the customers have to say.
And may it also this time happens the same as all other times when customers have protested, Vstep come out and post some 'news' about their product and after a week they step back and you hear nothing again. It seems like they do not care and they do defenetly not learn.
If Vehicle simulator worked a bit with the graphic and the behavior of the ships, I think most would leave this game directly.
And again and finaly, SSE is the third in the serie of Shipsimulator game. The first game, Ship Simulator 2006, the controle the player had over the simulated vehicle was steering and speed, the same in SS 2008 plus that you could turn on and off the engine. In the last game, at least I thought they had developed what the player was in controle over, but no, instead they had taken a step backwards and have removed that you can turn the enging on and off, and we are back to the beginning. I have never heard of a company given out a new game in a serie and have removed what you are in controle over on the vehicle as is simulated. That graphic become better is just natural, more and more persons got better computers.
And sadly but truth:
Vstep, not a release without a new bug added.
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The professional version of the ship simulator NAUTIS is based on SS08, but quite advanced in every direction. It seems to be successful not only because it is cheaper than those of the competitors. Well, compared to SSE it is of course very expensive. And it needs a lot of manpower to be successful at all. At the other hand it generates more profit than the game, 100 SSE customers more or less...
You are right, we all hope for more information, more bug-fixing patches and even more and new gameplay elements. Maybe we could ask VSTEP what they are thinking about this?
SSE was completely new, no SS08 enhancement. That's why so many things got lost, like ships and several details (engine on/off, console speed indicator...). Instead of those we've got many new features by means of the new mission editor for example. It is much more complicate, than before. But it allows much more exciting elements to play with. We've got new vessels, a better wave'n wake model...
I don't want to open another bug report topic, but what are your major requirements to get fixed in the near future? And I don't ask for little texture failures or missing hand rails. Maybe some of the officials can tell us, what we could expect for the upcoming patch?
Best regards
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Nice to see my comment has been deleted. Which smart donkey did that?
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Bottman
Perhaps that is one final clinching proof that what vstep is feeding out is nonsense. If ss08 is good enough to turn into nautis, it's good enough for the game engine.
However, a slightly updated version of 08 wouldn't have had all these chaps digging into their wallets to pay vstep money. SO, vstep starts again from scratch on something half as good, and gets them all digging into their bank to buy it.
As for your argument that nautis makes 100 time more profit for vstep per unit, might I inquire as to whether or not sse sales figures outnumber nautis 100 time or more? I suspect it does...
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Nice to see my comment has been deleted. Which smart donkey did that?
[ninja face]
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Hi,
first of all: I've not deleted any post in here!
With "100" I've not meant the revenue, but the number of customers to SSE. As far as we've been told, NAUTIS is lucrative, SSE not really. But I have never taken a look into VSTEPs accounts ;)
And yes, they tried a new start with SSE to fulfill more of the users requests according to the missions than possible with the old one.
Best regards
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"As far as we've been told, NAUTIS is lucrative, SSE not really"
I think the above qoute has "hit the nail on the head". Vstep is supporting NAUTIS because its the "bread winner" of Vsteps products. the SS series was/is/was a "bit on the side". However, SSE could have been a great game, provided Vstep put the effort into developing a game which did what the end user wanted it to. Otherwise they wouldn't be in the situation where They now have members of there own Userbase developing there own Simulator!
Also, Vstep isn't a "small company" anymore, they also have a office in converty, so they could be considered a TNC (trans-national-company)
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I would also say that you shouldn´t expect that all bugs are being removed.
In general I must say that I have big respect to VSTEP that they still put efford in the SSE because your (and other) votings show the little numbers of customers. I couldn´t even imagine that SSE is running very profitable...if it does, then it´s worth putting more effort in it and spend more time and money...but it seems that users for SSE are a small niche and so there cannot working so many people on it as in other games.
But I agree that there are still some major bugs which really disturb the game play. Especially I have witnessed in the last weeks a couple of vessels and environments where I could sail through the quay..such bugs are in my opinion very important to remove.
cheers
Ingo
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Hi all,
Thank you all for expressing your concerns. As you all know we are working with limited resources to improve the game where we can. We already did a lot of bug fixing regarding the major issues. We are still busy with a next patch that will solve most of the multiplayer issues.
If you have time, please send me (PM) a list of issues that are, in your eyes, major bugs that need to be fixed.
Meanwhile, have fun with SSE! There are enough positive features, gameplay, vessels and missions to enjoy yourself.
Swenson
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Swenson, you're right.
SSE is a great game, and you guys at Vstep are working hard to fix the bugs.
I think some people here are being a bit pessimistic, focusing on the bugs and not the good parts, people should just realize that SSE is just a game, not a 100% realistic professional simulator.
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Bottman,
I wasn't at all suggesting YOU deleted my comment.
As for the 100 factor.
1 nautis sale same value as 100 sse sales?
But I am told there are some 300,000 sse units sold. Are there more than 3000 nautis sales?
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Hi all,
Thank you all for expressing your concerns. As you all know we are working with limited resources to improve the game where we can. We already did a lot of bug fixing regarding the major issues. We are still busy with a next patch that will solve most of the multiplayer issues.
If you have time, please send me (PM) a list of issues that are, in your eyes, major bugs that need to be fixed.
Meanwhile, have fun with SSE! There are enough positive features, gameplay, vessels and missions to enjoy yourself.
Swenson
The problem is most people dont seem to understand this, then they keep ranting [/endrant]
Anyway good to hear that a new patch is on the way!
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larsdenhaan,
who, prey tell, are you to determine whether or not people have a right to complain about the software?
I'm afraid in modern commerce it isn't really a good enough excuse to say "we're working on sorting it out..." this long after release.
For my point, I have chosen not to buy sse on principle; the cost is neither here nor there to me. But a lot of young chaps here have saved damned hard to afford these pieces of software and it is perhaps understandable that they are so bitterly disappointed. I can tell you now that if vstep were in MY industry instead of software, they'd not last a week.
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1 nautis sale same value as 100 sse sales?
But I am told there are some 300,000 sse units sold. Are there more than 3000 nautis sales?
It is more complicate than your calculating example. There are a few more earner on the way from VSTEP to your PC, but not for NAUTIS. So you can't compare the sales until you know about the net profit of each game.
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@Swenson:
Thank you all for expressing your concerns. As you all know we are working with limited resources to improve the game where we can. We already did a lot of bug fixing regarding the major issues. We are still busy with a next patch that will solve most of the multiplayer issues.
The next patch should not only be an incremental patch but a full patch for the original 1.00 version of SSE2010. Otherwise bugs introduced within the previous patches could cumulate.
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We are still busy with a next patch that will solve most of the multiplayer issues.
I hope this patch include some more than just the multiplayer issues, even if they also have to been fixed.
Before the ferry-pack so did Vstep send out information email's where there were lists with what was included in the next patch or download, but after the ferrypack so did that stop of some reason. And this lists came as news so the customers could read it and say if they miss anything or even help Vstep, now we get such information after the download/patch is finished and released, that is in my opinion a step backward.
If you have time, please send me (PM) a list of issues that are, in your eyes, major bugs that need to be fixed.
Well, if you do not give me a better reason I will not do that, cause there is thread where all bugs have been reported. MadFred started it I have all time have the thought that it was a thread for you guys at Vstep or what was else the meaning of that thread??? So I think you should read throw that thread and if you need more information about bugs I will send it to you.
One thing I asked for about a year ago, was that all steering positions should be looked over, like on one boat you could not use from the pilot view, cause it is too low. And it is a shame that such things have not been fixed one and a half year after the game was released.
I have not played the game since November/December when Winner came out, and I only drived around with her for about five minutes then I got bored, cause even that ship you could not do anything else than steering and drive forward and backwards with, except for the eye-candies like deploying Rhib's and the watercannons(which is a bit unrealistic, you can take out an engine fire 900 meters away, even if you find a water cannon that can shout that far so will the water be so spread at the landing so you can not take out much of the fire on that distance.
And you guy's who are telling that this game is good and that we who complain are too negative, remember that it is our opinion that it is not so good, and it is your opinion that it is good, none is more right than the other. I am used to Microsofts flight simulator, Codemasters F1 2010 and F1 2011 and also Vehicle simulator, and this games work with realy few bug's. At flight simulator I have the last three months only used aircrafts from one developer, a small company even smaller than Vstep, but they have another philosofi, that no update and patch should be needed after release even if they have published update's. Their philosofi is that all addons they produce should be as accurate they can be, and they do not produce aircrafts they do not have personal access too. And I talk about A2A-Simulations. Yes their add-ons are expensive, cost more than SSE cost, but then you know you got a perfect product. At one aircraft for example they had over 200 beta version's, such information should be interesting to get from Vstep.
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One Global Moderator has pronnounced the "magic sentence". "Ship Simulator Nautis is a development based on Ship Simulator 2008. I've asked about this question several times, and never received a clear answer. Even I remember to read an interview with the CEO of Vstep, and when the journalist asked him about this matter, the answer wasn't really clear. For me here is the heart of the question. Vstep couldn't sell to us new functions and performances, because they would have a conflict with the other customers; the professionals customers; they have paid 4.000,00 € for the product. Imagine their anger if Vstep later sells it`s product as consecutives addons. I'd like to know how Vstep have registered "both products". Is the copyright the same for both products?
There is another embarrassing question: If Ship Simulator 2006 was put on sale first and many months later appeared Ship Simulator 2006 Professional for 245,00 €. And if Ship Simulator 2008 was put on sale again first and a year or year and a half after appeared Ship Simulator 2008 Professional for 4.000,00 €. And if Ship Simulator Extremes was put on sale two years after... Will we see to appear a Ship Simulator Extremes Professional, and of course we won't enjoy it.
Are we the betatesters, the long-suffering users, which are making the frustrating process of testing, paying money for it and at the end other "children" will enjoy the toy?
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It's a complex story though. The very first Pro version has been nothing more than a flop. Nobody want's to buy it, since it was everything but professional. 2008 has been a stable system, which allows VSTEP to implement the professional requirements. The customers of that system don't want to play, there was no need for an improved mission editor but for loads of very special nautical features whereas SSE was made to relaunch the game with many other gameplay features to a broader clientile. Until now they have developed two pairs of shoes and I can't imagine, that they are willing to transfer SSE to another pro version by now. The intention behind both products is as different as the customers are.
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Yes, the intentions of NAUTIS are to provide a working peice of software, and the intentions of SSE are to provide a peice of software that barely works on the best of days.
In reply to swenson's post, Why should "we", the end user, provide suggestions when surely Vsteps beta testers should report EVERY SINGLE BUG, so that these can be fixed? Why should "we" go out of our way to make your lives easier when you've dissapointed an awful lot of people?
I will say this though, for once, insted of giving wild estimates for release dates, actually think "can we have this released for X date?". and if you don't meet the release date, actually do something about it. At operation kittyhawk, when someone doesn't meet there deadline without due reason, I make sure they don't do it again. Do you know how many deadlines we've missed since I started "letting people know I was unhappy"?. 1. thats right, we've missed 1 deadline.
Why did Vstep bother to re-make the SSE engine, when, as already stated "SS08 has been a stable system"? Why didn't they just improve on SS08? because of nautis, and the "it will be too proffesional" phrase. Maybe that explains why most, if not all of the users of SSE get little or no tech support from the "tech support staff" (the mods, global mods and mad_fred to a excellent job of providing support though). Because that would be "too proffesonial".
I sincerly hope that IF there is a new SS released, Vstep will actually make a decent SIMULATOR. not "game", a SIMULATOR.
I also notice that neither frank nor pjotr have posted in this topic....
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Who cares? I'm just happy there is a ship simulator game which I can enjoy sailing a ship on my computer and it lets me to be the captain of a vessel for a couple of hours.
As for bugs, name me ONE software which is totally free of bugs and glitches. I've yet to come across which is entitely free of bugs.
I've been using Windows since since 2000 and it always seem to be needing updates/patches every so often to plug vulnerabilities and security holes.
Even before that, I was an Apple user and even Apple needed to issue software updates/patches. I used to get my Apple updates/patches which came with the CD from a Mac magazine (this was in the days of 28k modem internet connection, which meant downloading patches would be very slow and expensive)
And even when I have a Playstation 3, I'm still prompted to check for updates so that fixes/patches can be applied for the game which I've just bought.
So come on, let's give VSTEP a break guys, eh? I think they have achieved a lot in 5 years. Remember they do not have the financial muscle or support like Microsoft sim games had enjoyed for so long time.
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I'm not saying that ship simulator isn't a great game. It is in nearly every way, i'm just fed up of Vstep leaving its community to rot. Whilst I aggree that no software is free of bugs, most companies out there will work as fast as possible to fix those bugs, whereas vstep seem to release a patch every blue moon.
Take vehical simulator for example, although thats not bug free ilan releases regular bug fixes and updates.
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Although it is a bit off-topic, I want to mention it because Bottman explained a bit to the professional editions.
I still miss the "simulation" part in SSE. For me it is a nice game but simulate a real seafaring experience is not possible, if I think of navigation, sailing by night with the help of lights.
From a simulator I would have expected this. But we discussed this topic a long time ago in another post, therefore it is a bit off-topic.
cheers
Ingo
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I'm not saying that ship simulator isn't a great game. It is in nearly every way, i'm just fed up of Vstep leaving its community to rot. Whilst I aggree that no software is free of bugs, most companies out there will work as fast as possible to fix those bugs, whereas vstep seem to release a patch every blue moon.
Take vehical simulator for example, although thats not bug free ilan releases regular bug fixes and updates.
You are sick of something that isn't even true? Well than the problem lies with your perception and not with Vstep. ;D
And sorry to burst your bubble, but you're wrong about most companies throwing all their resources towards bugfixing. This isn't my first ballgame, and my experience tells me it's often the opposite.
And vehicle simulator, I dunno how much you love Ilan, but have you not been around before, when they almost had to BEG him to answer their questions, even? ::)
It's apples and oranges, and you're wrong about some of the things you assume or guess-and-present-as-factual. You're just saying stuff that's silly, sorry if that sounds like I'm out to get you, it's not, and I understand the frustration, but unless you have some hands on and first hand knowledge, you're really just assuming things that holds no water. You're wrong about Vstep's way of working, about their choices, about why SSE was done the way it's done. Good guesswork, but not realistic. :)
But you will find that out if and when you actually would seriously be competing on a market, instead of judging things from the perspective of a hobby project. I've seen MANY of those started and been part of some, and nearly none finished, and it's always because the people underestimate what goes into the 'real deal'. Everyone's a developer these days it seems and with the ready made SDK packages out there all it takes is time and dedication. But that doesn't mean you're also a businessman with the bigger picture and the need to pay the bills, just yet. ;)
So how far along is the new sim, btw? :)
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Hello gents,
at first i am sorry for my bad english. ::)
I played this game now over 100 hours. Most time online. One of the biggest problem online is that the server not runs "synchron". If i sail with the "Pride of Jack" (Pride of Rotterdam) at 22 kts, i am faster than another player who sail the Cutter with ~ 30 kts. The other mistake is than the wrong position of my ship for this player. For me i overtake him portside 200 m away and for him my position is ~ 1 nm behind his ship. So it could be that i hit his ship or he is hitting my ship. So the online player is angry against the other player because he think he is hitting from another player but the other player has no chance because on his PC is far enough away.
At last: I play Virtuel Games since the early 80's. First was on "Fairchild Channel F" in Germany SABA Spielekonsole. Early 90's on PC (Green - black Monitor 8) Gato, Falcon 1,0 from Microprose, first Flightsim from Microsoft. Thanks Vstep that you give me a Simulator which give me a lot of fun to play. I hope for the next patch who is eleminate many bugs and so the loyal Player become more fun to play the game.
:captain: Jack
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You are sick of something that isn't even true?
Where did I say I was sick of something? I said I was fed up, not sick.
but you're wrong about most companies throwing all their resources towards bugfixing
Most companies I've seen have worked as fast as possible to deal with bugs. But again, this is personnal epxerience
You're wrong about Vstep's way of working, about their choices, about why SSE was done the way it's done. Good guesswork, but not realistic. Smiley
I don't know the inner workings of Vstep, however, this is how they appear tow work from my (the customers) point of view.
But you will find that out if and when you actually would seriously be competing on a market, instead of judging things from the perspective of a hobby project. I've seen MANY of those started and been part of some, and nearly none finished, and it's always because the people underestimate what goes into the 'real deal'. Everyone's a developer these days it seems and with the ready made SDK packages out there all it takes is time and dedication. But that doesn't mean you're also a businessman with the bigger picture and the need to pay the bills, just yet. Wink
The render engine SS uses (questviewer) is pre-made, so that can be considered a SDK, so can physx, which is a premade physics libary developed by Nvida to work alongside there "cuda" and "agiea" physics chipsets. I'm not a businessman, i'm a 16 year old collage student. I don't desire to be a businessman. I DO have bills to pay, after all, using commercial products requires you to part with cash.
So how far along is the new sim, btw?
Is moving along as could be expected.
I dunno how much you love Ilan, but have you not been around before, when they almost had to BEG him to answer their questions, even? Roll Eyes
I don't know ilan, nor do I inted to. I've heard mixed things about him and his responses to questions, I was mearly using a peice of his software, not the man himself as a comparision. Members of this forum also had to "beg" to get swenson to post indev pics of various DLC's on the forum, insted of just facebook.
Well than the problem lies with your perception and not with Vstep.
I'm not responsible for creating this mess. Vstep, who develop SSE are. THEY released a game that was, atleast for the first few months, unfit for purpose (in my eyes). THEY are the ones that say "X product will be released on Y date", then don't release it for another 2 weeks! (or more).
sorry if that sounds like I'm out to get you, it's not,
This is just my personal opinion, but it does sound like your trying to disprove everything I've said, or simply talk down to me. I'm sorry if you don't mean it that way, but thats how it sounds when I read it :'(
Sorry if this post sounds like I'm attacking you, i'm not, and I would never do that. If anything I admire you for the work you've put in to the forum, especially consdiring you don't get paid for anything you do here.
You are correct in assuming that i'm fustrated with SSE, My AI laggs the game to the point where I get 5fps if i'm lucky, and even using a machine like mine I'd expect to get more than that, wouldn't you?
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Where did I say I was sick of something? I said I was fed up, not sick.
Same difference, the principle of what I said doesn't change because it's a slightly different word. :)
Most companies I've seen have worked as fast as possible to deal with bugs. But again, this is personnal epxerience.
Well then you haven't seen a broad enough spectrum yet I reckon. ;)
Of course Vstep does what they can.. it's their product, it's not a sideshow that they can just sacrifice or something, because nautis is bringing in the big number.. that whole string of thought is just not really relevant, it all costs money to make, it all has to return that money and then make some so they can have dinner at night after they lock up. But wether or not companies can throw ALL their resources at it... well that's not always possible even.. that was what I am saying.. but what CAN be done, is done.
I don't know the inner workings of Vstep, however, this is how they appear tow work from my (the customers) point of view..
Yes I understand, but you present some things as facts, which are simply assumptions which are wrong, is what I'm saying.
The render engine SS uses (questviewer) is pre-made, so that can be considered a SDK, so can physx, which is a premade physics libary developed by Nvida to work alongside there "cuda" and "agiea" physics chipsets. I'm not a businessman, i'm a 16 year old collage student whos autistic. I don't desire to be a businessman. I DO have bills to pay, after all, using commercial products requires you to part with cash..
Well it's a bit different from getting, say, unity and messing about a bit with that, trying stuff out, etc.. compared to what Vstep does. But what I am saying is.. there's much more to it than that.
Is moving along as could be expected.
That's good to know. :thumbs:
I don't know ilan, nor do I inted to. I've heard mixed things about him and his responses to questions, I was mearly using a peice of his software, not the man himself as a comparision. Members of this forum also had to "beg" to get swenson to post indev pics of various DLC's on the forum, insted of just facebook.
I'm not responsible for creating this mess. Vstep, who develop SSE are. THEY released a game that was, atleast for the first few months, unfit for purpose (in my eyes). THEY are the ones that say "X product will be released on Y date", then don't release it for another 2 weeks! (or more).
This is just my personal opinion, but it does sound like your trying to disprove everything I've said, or simply talk down to me. I'm sorry if you don't mean it that way, but thats how it sounds when I read it :'(
Oh I know what you are saying, but you picked them as an example of prompt reaction to the community and decent updates and fixes, and that's not how that game has been, at first it was a very buggy beta too, well their new product pretty much still is, that nonetheless, is sold to people. So in all fairness, they/he didn't get it right all the time either and right away, and the software still is below par to what I would want it to be, honestly. In that sense, the comparison is not really the best one you can make.
And, it's not always as easy as you might think with release dates and such, there's more than just a dev and a game, there's a publisher, distribution, everything else that comes into play, plans made, services arranged, money spent..., is left out of your view there, so you dont have 'the bigger picture', so to speak, from your angle.
And no worries, I wasn't trying to 'disprove' what you said. I am only saying, that most of what your wrote, was just not what is actually going on. And well if you lash out and make claims about vstep letting their customers 'rot', well that is more rude than me telling you that you have made a mistake and are drawing the wrong conclusion, is it not? ;)
Sorry if this post sounds like I'm attacking you, i'm not, and I would never do that. If anything I admire you for the work you've put in to the forum, especially consdiring you don't get paid for anything you do here.
I know mate, nor I you, but you're getting a little heated and are throwing some ideas around that are not spot on, so I am only trying to interject a little reality. ;D
You are correct in assuming that i'm annoyed with SSE, My AI laggs the game to the point where I get 5fps if i'm lucky, and even using a machine like mine I'd expect to get more than that, wouldn't you?
Well yes, but I get decent performance myself with a decent machine too.. so, it's not a structural problem for everyone, or I would have the same problems that you have and we would have even more unsolvable problems with some members. But the fact of the matter is that most tech support issues are solved, and in a majority of cases, it's down to the user needing to be a little more careful with this game than other games, or downright user error. You just don't see all the players that - despite obvious bugs - play this game happily and nearly, if not totally, worry-free. This game requires a little more TLC and tweaking to get that running like it should, somtimes.. and yes, that's not ideal and I agree with that side of your argument.. cause not everyone is a tweaker or feels like trying out a dozen different things to make it work.
But still, all in all, apart from the obvious bugs, my game just runs good, I can play all the missions just fine, it's just okay in the way that I play it. (not a great mp fan, that side, I can't comment on too much..) so, for me, it's not as bad as some games I have bought that are far worse for bugs and have far less developer attention and fixes. It's not a 'mess' to me. Why it is for you, I don't know.
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As we both have differning points of view on this topic, lets both a agree that SSE still has its bugs, but is in general a great game. Saves arguments that way :doh:
EDIT:
I wasn't trying to present anything as "fact", it was just my personal opinion, I apologise if it what I said was taken as fact.
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Oh I never disputed that, mate. There are bugs. There are lingering problems that should have been gone by now. I am just telling you that you're points of view are off target, for the most part. Your underlying frustration about the way the game runs for you is totally understandable though, and you'd love to see it different. And believe me, Vstep wants that even more than you want it. And they are not letting the players rot... just because they don't constantly spoonfeed the people pointless WIP screenshots or updates, doesn't mean they aren't going full whack.
Opinions are fine, and a good discussion, well that's what this forum is for, isnt it? But the facts might differ from what people think is going on. And if someone says things in a factual manner, and are wrong about them, well they will be called on that sometimes. :P
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Well well... the forum cheers up. That's good. I hope then, SSE be a new line open by VStep; totally separated from SS08 or NAUTIS, and dedicated totally for us; the ship fans. That could explain SSE seem to be a backward respect a SS08 in some aspects. I thought too, the celebration of the contest a year ago be the beginning of a new strategist more open. I suppose after months and months of hard work of VStep professionals SSE will be fixed. Then it would be the moment of it's authentic expansion. We don't need a very high level of engineering as professionals need, but we want many ships, sceneries around the world, a bigger interactivity with the ships (to open the cargo holds, the handling of the cranes, to tune the radio frequencies, etc.). Want or not to want VStep, at the end the Ship Simulator, like any other simulator will need external colaboration; franchise, SDK or any other way.
VStep has had the original idea. They have created the base, the skeleton. But this skeleton will need to be filled. Will they be able to satisfy the huge possibilities and expectations created by Ship Simulator working alone?
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Lads,
time will tell on this. If those who are lacking confidence in the credibility of shipsim are wrong, it will be evident by the game being improved.
If on the other hand it either stays the same- or more likely is re-released as some new re-hash (maybe ship sim ultimate) next time pjotr gets a big bill, then we know they are correct.
For my part, I squirm with embaressment and the commercial prowess of vstep. They have chosen, rightly or wrongly, to pursue two wildly different business models at the same time. That is the high volume, low yield game and the low volume high yield simulator. Much is made of the price difference as a means to justify the quite frankly disasterous PR that has followed sse. However, one would wonder when all is said and done, what the actual NETT income is to vstep for each of its products. I would invite you to consider that the "mass" market of sse is actually worth a little more than petty cash figures (even with the charges deducted by paradox).
For those of you who are still young chaps at school and haven't yet seen the nasty world properly, I'm afraid this is par for the cause these days. Companies are just tools to extract money from you as quickly and as much as possible. Some companies give you a damned good service, most are average, but there are too many that really don't think what they are doing!
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that whole string of thought is just not really relevant, it all costs money to make, it all has to return that money and then make some so they can have dinner at night after they lock up. But wether or not companies can throw ALL their resources at it... well that's not always possible even.. that was what I am saying.. but what CAN be done, is done.
with other words but straight ahead ... SSE has not brought the financial succes vstep expected and since they have to pay their offices, developers and the personal benefits of the CEO and other "upper" people of the company, we can expect very little to none resources and financial effords to remove existing bugs , not to dream of any improvents.
in the meantime the moderators are invited to calm down the community for free with the intention to squeeze the last pennys from the basic program and addon ships , right ?
if yes, vstep should move forward and make an announcment that no further developing and improvements will be made and we all have peace.
then they can enjoy dinner payed by the hopes of xxx thousands customers who believed since 2006 that thatkind of software will have a future and vstep is the company who will start a new edge of ship simulation.
tranparency might be here an idea gentlemen !
best regards
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I don't think we can presume to know exactly what the outcome for vstep earnings and thus the future of the shipsim game.
We can all make assumptions and guesses- for my part I think their technical knowhow is pretty damned impressive; but their marketing and business model is pretty grim and quite, quite unsustainable.
Every product has a lifecycle; with shipsim you can take the whole series as a whole, or seperately as individual products. Even micromush realised this in the end with flightsim and now development has been terminated; I can really see the peak of sales having already passed and now it is a slow decline for any future issues released.
There again, like everyone else, I'm just giving an opinion that might even, possible, however remote, be wrong.
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Hi,
does anyone know how many copies of SSE have been sold? Would be really interesting to me because I assume that there are limited numbers of players.
best wishes
Ingo
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dear dexter.
you can stop with this game it is working great on my low spec computer.
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Patch V1.5 has been released! :2thumbs:
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@VirtualSkipper:
Patch V1.5 has been released!
I think you need to delete your profile and settings before installing the new 1.5 patch. Otherwise you could get problems after installing this new patch.
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I haven't had any trouble. :-\
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Hi,
does anyone know how many copies of SSE have been sold? Would be really interesting to me because I assume that there are limited numbers of players.
best wishes
Ingo
I belive somewhere in the region of 300k? But thats for the series as a whole.
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It was somewhere around 550k at the time of SSE's launch, for the series total, according to paradox' press release at the time. So by now, SSE has to be added to that. I couldn't say how much that is by now, though.
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It was somewhere around 550k at the time of SSE's launch, for the series total, according to paradox' press release at the time. So by now, SSE has to be added to that. I couldn't say how much that is by now, though.
550K?
*WARNING! MATHS!*
So, if they charge £30 per title, and they make approximantly £10 from each copy, thats 5.5 million, not including sales, which will probobly reduce that total by around 500k. but still, 5 million pounds?!? and they still release a slighty broken SSE? :o :o :o ::)
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That's not how it works. ;)
it's not one fixed price for each title over the complete period of time anyway. :)
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550 k is not too much if I think that they work for about 2 years on it and put in a lot of time. I would also have said that they need to sell that much but I thought that there are less players...good to hear that I was wrong.
But selling a slightly broken SSE...ok, that´s not so great for 550 k copies..
cheers
Ingo
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But selling a slightly broken SSE...ok, that´s not so great for 550 k copies..
you can be very sure that vstep prefers to take the money for themsef istead of spending it in development to make the community happy when even a "broken" SSE is able to sell.
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you can be very sure that vstep prefers to take the money for themsef istead of spending it in development to make the community happy when even a "broken" SSE is able to sell.
ACR, can you please stop with the criticism, it's getting rather boring now and to be quite honest, its the brink of trolling, thanks! ;)
You are not adding anything to the topic at all, just slamming VSTEP. I can assure you that the money VSTEP make goes into development of not just SSE or nautis, but the other titles they work on too :)
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Captain Spencer, Are you aware of that this discussion stoped about two weeks ago? I mean that it seems a bit strange that you ask some to stop with something he had already stoped two weeks ago. You may missed the date?
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Yes thank you, I was ;)
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You know, I should just have this topic locked now, because I don't want it turning into a negative topic. (Not that anything is going on now...)
So please lock it? :angel: