Ship Simulator
English forum => Small talk => The Chat Lounge => Topic started by: danny on January 14, 2012, 01:12:45
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Various news repots have stated that Costa Concordia has run aground of italy and is now taking on water.
passengers have been succesfully evacuated from the ship and a rescue mission is underway by the italian coastgaurd.
Will post when I either an english news report or more infomation.
JUST IN!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2086527/Cost-Concordia-Massive-evacuation-underway-cruise-ship-starts-sinking-Italian-coast.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jpjNS4_4QUyem62wQ8R8hTRqbeuw?docId=CNG.0a48dca029ea3800c6e534eab94e8d0d.c41
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16560050
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2086527/Costa-Concordia-accident-Pictures-cruise-ship-sinking-coast-Italy-Titanic-like-scene.html
Reports now state that the vessel encoutered a "Major electrical fault" apporx 2 hours after leaving port. The ship is now listing heavily to one side, and the coastgaurd is bracing to recive the people in boats, all 4000+ of them :o
Edit 2
The italian coastgaurd have said that there is NO danger of the vessel sinking, and that the evacuation is wrapping up
Edit 3
Her list appears to be Worsening, it is now at 20 degrees. However, officals still state that there is no danger of her sinking. I have also been informed that 2 lives have been lost. a 70 year old man, and a unknown person who jumped overboard.
Edit 4
There are now a confirmed 6 (six) people dead, a further 200 remain aboard. the vessel is now reported to have struck a reef. Several people have been reported injured, 2 seriously.
Edit 5
The death toll has been revised to 3, however, the concordia is now lying at nearly 90 degrees to stbd. There is a possiblity she may be declared a "constructive total loss".
Edit 6
There are now 50 people currently listed as missing...
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I just read this! :o
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hm.... :'(
http://www.costacroisieres.be/bd/webcam.html
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Just been sent these pictures
(http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/390133_274282282632039_100001508097823_736844_2066100479_n.jpg)
(http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/409015_274296839297250_100001508097823_736866_360223236_n.jpg)
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Hmmmf Daily
"Transmission is temporarily suspended"
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To evacuate 4,200 people in the dark from a ship with a 20 degree list is no easy task, from what I read the whole thing seems to have been handled very well.
Sadly latest reports now show that 8 people have died as a result of this.
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Previously seeing the news being such a tragedy it is, but in regards to the ship I thought it could have been possible to refloat it. But after seeing this photo I have my doubts:
(http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/3772878-3x2-940x627.jpg)
Skynews (For UK citizens): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_8EFPmSZUs
I really wonder if they had their lifeboat drill yet? With P&O Cruises (Azura) we had it within 2 hours from being on the ship, we hadn't even left port yet.
Then with Thomson (Destiny) we left Majorca very late at night and had it at 10:30am the next day (sea day) before heading to Italy.
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I just saw it myself aswell.
Really how do they get it so far?? I serious gonna think a lot of the hull at stern has been gone. Otherwise how does get it so far?? All the seperate rooms should prevent things like this.
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I have always felt very uneasy with the "top heavy" design of modern cruise vessels, which would have affected its stability in a situation like this. Plus, a large amount of people scrambling to one side may have made the listing worse (and I can completely understand why these people did that - it's the human nature to try and escape).
I hope this is a wake-up call for cruise operators and ship designers.
My thoughts goes to all those who died :(
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It is really sad to see such a modern ship sinking. Here is a video showing the current situation of the Costa Concordia: http://youtube.com/watch?v=-BfsV7Kk4Aw
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A tragic incident. I am puzzled as to why the ship was there and why she has stranded so close to the island. She had left Rome yesterday and was supposedly on the way south to Palermo, Sicily..
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/9014743/Three-confirmed-dead-and-thousands-evacuated-as-cruise-ship-runs-aground-off-coast-of-Italy.html
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Iv just got up and seen on Sky News so sad my heart goes out for the people who lost there lives.
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A tragic incident. I am puzzled as to why the ship was there and why she has stranded so close to the island.
Perhaps it was very fortunate that this happened close to the shore - if she had been further out in deeper waters, the outcome could have been much worse.
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HI all
A close freind of mine is working at costa and says that the ship is now sunked and still missing 20 people to rescue, weather they are dead by the impact or when the water came on is still unknown....
If you look back in history it has NOTHING to do by the design of the ship that makes it list like this, if you search on COSTA EUROPA you will see a ship build in the 80's and even she was listing to the one side, so it's not a fault by the design, if you look it also got a huge hole in the hull so if anyone here can tell me why such an old ship list to the side, please be my guest(http://www.meretmarine.com/objets/500/24138.jpg)...
(http://www.nedcruise.info/costa%20europa%20slagzij.jpg)
Also my thoughts go to the families that has lost a member here by, but i also have to say that this could have been ALOT worse if it had happened on the atlantic or in the middle of the med... so that allmost 4200 people are rescued is job well done by the crewand my thought go to them as well for OUTSTANDING JOB WELL DONE
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Also my thoughts go to the families that has lost a member here by, but i also have to say that this could have been ALOT worse if it had happened on the atlantic or in the middle of the med... so that allmost 4200 people are rescued is job well done by the crewand my thought go to them as well for OUTSTANDING JOB WELL DONE
On the Atlantic she would have still been afloat, because there are no reefs there. :P
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On the Atlantic she would have still been afloat, because there are no reefs there. :P
Haha, I just want to say that.
If you look back in history it has NOTHING to do by the design of the ship that makes it list like this, if you search on COSTA EUROPA you will see a ship build in the 80's and even she was listing to the one side, so it's not a fault by the design, if you look it also got a huge hole in the hull so if anyone here can tell me why such an old ship list to the side, please be my guest
Why you bringing this up?? Of course there is no design fault. With a 80 meter long hole in your hull no ship will be able to sail without a list.
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I can only guess it must have been a navigational error. The waters surrounding Giglio Island are extremely shallow.
As for Atlantic reefs, there are some.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Reefs_of_the_Atlantic_Ocean
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I can only guess it must have been a navigational error. The waters surrounding Giglio Island are extremely shallow.
As for Atlantic reefs, there are some.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Reefs_of_the_Atlantic_Ocean
Yes, but most of them are at the coast of Florida and elsewhere near other coasts. ;)
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quite sad it is to hear that a 5 year old ship has capsized. i think by the amount of water damage there and that huge hole in the hull looks like its for srcap only.
fine they could refloat it, but by the amount of pools they have and how much its underwater, there probily a lot of water damage. plus as the engine i socked that will rust just like most of the ship quick.
also the crew were about to do a evacutation drill in one hour time.
its quite sad. also im hearing that people accualy started jumping off the ship as the crew thought it was safe but they had lost faith in the crew.
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I would understand why some swam, it went over just next to the coast
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/01/14/article-2086527-0F7481AC00000578-381_634x374.jpg)
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If you look back in history it has NOTHING to do by the design of the ship that makes it list like this, if you search on COSTA EUROPA you will see a ship build in the 80's and even she was listing to the one side, so it's not a fault by the design, if you look it also got a huge hole in the hull so if anyone here can tell me why such an old ship list to the side, please be my guest
This particular vessel was deliberately listed to port to lift the damaged area clear of the water.
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Here some of the last track sailed by the "Costa Concordia" according to the AIS: http://marinetraffic.com/ais/nl/default.aspx?oldmmsi=247158500&zoom=10&olddate=1/13/2012%209:02:00%20PM (http://marinetraffic.com/ais/nl/default.aspx?oldmmsi=247158500&zoom=10&olddate=1/13/2012%209:02:00%20PM)
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So that want capsized it
sometimes its better to let it to sink than capsize as you have more time (usaly) and there ain such a crash when it lands in the water.
what suprizes me it aint leaking oil
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Maybe the Costa Concordia will meet the same fate as that of the Sea Diamond. :-\
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZu_1j8JGDs
Ever since, she is still untouched...
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she is in to shalow water
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or as the old RMS Queen Elizabeth...
(http://i1.squidoocdn.com/resize/squidoo_images/590/draft_lens17791096module149232241photo_1301518574rms-queen-elizabeth-wreck)
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I'm not sure weither an electrical "fault" was to blame anymore, because for her to roll like that there must have been a large hole below the waterline to allow water in, unless one of her stablisers got ripped of in the grounding...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16558910
EDIT:
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/57885000/jpg/_57885802_013702767-1.jpg)
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Whoa! And here stabilizer is sticking out there more towards the bow.
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It did surprised me aswell that I saw the stabalizers out.
But that's for sure. I'm not very familair with SOLAS, but I know that a ship excist of many watersealed rooms, where no water can enter or leave with the doors close. So if it's just one of the many rooms, this would never be happened.
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Maybe an electrical overload caused the ballast tanks to flood. :-\
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Have you seen the size of the hole though!?! and don't forget, once you get some water aboard, she's going to start to sit lower in the water/list, which means more water comes aboard, and the cycle starts again.
I doubt that, I think she either hit the reef then lost power, or lost power and hit the reef shortly after.
EDIT:
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/01/14/article-2086527-0F74670000000578-521_634x422.jpg)
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/01/14/article-2086527-0F7474AE00000578-838_634x481.jpg)
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/01/14/article-2086527-0F744BB700000578-11_634x411.jpg)
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Wow, that's really not nothing... Absolulety incredible :o
We have to wait for the investigating for the answer to that. Based on the passenger stories I would say they hit first the the reef, and lost power very quick after that. But I really cannot explaining the lose of power than. It doesn't seem they hit the reef at the ER. But we will see :-\
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Is it optical illusion or do I see a big chunk of rock in that hole? :o
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Is it optical illusion or do I see a big chunk of rock in that hole? :o
Nope, you see that right. Atleast I think aswell :)
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Here's a better view from a helicopter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=515owJy7ooQ&feature=player_embedded
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Italian divers are now searching the hulk to find the 70 people who are still unaccounted for...
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Italian divers are now searching the hulk to find the 70 people who are still unaccounted for...
That's not a good thing, fingers crossed they find these missing people alive and well.
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This has got a lot worse since last night when I herd about it on facebook.
Kyle
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(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/01/14/article-2086527-0F74828D00000578-87_634x354.jpg)
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Italian divers are now searching the hulk to find the 70 people who are still unaccounted for...
just hope most of them jumped off and swimed to shore.
or there save in the ship
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Latest news is that it's only 49 that is missing, that is nice to hear, i hope that number will decrease during the night hopefully will be 0
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Heard it on the radio but they didnt say the name/owner but i imediatly knew it
btw any plans for her? i mean you cant really leave her there
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I have serious questions about the modern cruiseship designs. They are top heavy and thus have a higher center of gravity and a shorter metacentric height. If the ship is taking on water and some watertight compartments below the waterline are flooding, the stability will quickly reach critical levels with capsizing as a result.
Passenger vessels should have a double hull filled with foam below the waterline. If the hull gets ruptured over several meters due to hitting a rock like the Costa Concordia did, the double hull will act as a buffer and it will avoid that a great part with several watertight compartments below the waterline will be flooded. Passenger vessels should have the same seaworthyness and sufficient spare floating capacity as warships do. Such that if a significant part below the waterline gets floooded, the ship will stay afloat on her buoancy of the hull above the waterline.
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Word on the street is the captain of the concordia has been arrested...
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Heard it on the radio but they didnt say the name/owner but i imediatly knew it
btw any plans for her? i mean you cant really leave her there
My surce in Costa atm says that for now they will leave her there, untill the investegations are over, but all in costa thinks that it's the captain or a officer that is to blame, but in the end it's the captains´responsebility nomatter what happens on the ship, but he's been arrested for murder untill anything new comes up....
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Heard it on the radio but they didnt say the name/owner but i imediatly knew it
btw any plans for her? i mean you cant really leave her there
they cant leave her there,
expecaly if boats cant get out of the harbour easyLatest news is that it's only 49 that is missing, that is nice to hear, i hope that number will decrease during the night hopefully will be 0
almost halved.
i bet you at least 40% of them are still safe.
mind you its far fetch for titanic.
lessons have not been learned from the MS Hearld of the Free Enterpirze :thumbdown:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_Herald_of_Free_Enterprise
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Lessons HAVE been learned CC, for a start, the enterprise sank because her bow dor wasn't closed, the costa is in this state because she ran agrond, two COMPLETELY different things.
Another crewmember has been arrested alongside the captain.
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i get the bit with the bow stuff
BUT the anticapzing unit only needs to be fitted to RO-RO ferries
NOT cruse vessels
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Thats because Cruise vessels normally don't have huge spaces like cardecks that present a huge hazard for capsizing.
And anyway, even if sponsons had been fitted to the costa, she would have rolled regardless.
The 1st officer is the other person arrested on suspicion of abandoning ship whilst passengers were still in danger and multipul manslaughter.
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does it class as manslaughter?
i never new abaning a ship for your life was a crime
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if your the captain your suppost to stay aboard until either the last moment or until all the passengers are safe.
It classes as manslaughter because 3 people died whlist they were under the captains care
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oh
so when you go on abord a ship you in a way sing a contract that its the captins falt if you get injured
thats something i leart
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the captain is allways the last person to leave the ship, that's a rule that has around for years +100 yrs but the captain on C cordia was a chicken, i would have been there till i was for sure all passengers was out or till i couldn't see anymore that's for sure, it's shamefull of the captain to just walk off the ship, and then leave the pass to them selfs, i wonder about all the first time cruisrs that was onboard that ship, and the crew was just leaving the ship SHAMEFULL COSTA
I have been crusing alot i was about to try costa cruises, but not anymore, i will cruise american cruise lines only, Royal caribbean, celebrity cruises, Norwegian cruise line, among others
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too be onhest there worst than chickens
they shoul not have the stripes off there hands (or sholders)
chickens are better than what they done :thumbdown:
just makes me feel sorry for who ever lost someone thanks to there "captain"
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So true, as i said, i will from now on only cruise on american owned cruise ships, never Costa or MSC for that sake
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still
how do you know they dont have the same problem.
makes me feel that the chance of me becoming a captain is slowly draining away with all these instances :'(
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im not saying that the american lines can't have the same problems, but if you look back in history, you'll find out that Sea diamond was sunked by a greek captain on a greek line called Louis cruise line, Now costa Europa has some problems, Costa magica hit a breakwater in DVR had a masive dent in the hull but was able to sail i have seen this in real life, Now costa Concordia... how many american lines have you heard about that took a short cut just because THEY THOUGHT the waters was sailable, i can tell you non....
A captain sould take the route that is the safest not least calmest, not take a short cut because he's as i said THINK and note my big letters on think it was sailable, a captain souldn't think, but know, when my freind that works in royal caribbean heard that he had taken a short cut, he wrote to me, that is freaking horrible....
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Just a small point, Costa Cruises is owned by an American company!! Carnival Cruise Lines, just as is Cunard and a number of other companies.
Apologies, the ships owners are in fact Carnival not Celebrity. My sincere aplogies for this mistake.
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and someone said its a amarican captain :doh:
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Update
Apprently the ship hit the rocks some 40 minutes before she "sunk". they were steaming for a safe location to disembark the passengers when she developed the sudden list and muster stations was sounded shortly after.
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Hmm intriguing
Compartment doors failed to shut maybe? I wouldn't have thought the Captain would have moved if he knew she would get a list so quickly
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Well, from what I can gather, she struck whatever caused the blackout, power was then restored, and the ship started to make for shallow waters. She then struck something else(?) which caused her to roll heavily, thus developing the list which eventually turned out to be the final nail in the coffin.
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Oh a second collision :/
Now depending on the circumstance that must be careless (If they had power back) or real unlucky (If they didn't)...
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I'm going off what the costa boss said in a interview, but i'm not sure if he meant what he said, because he wsa having trouble with english...
Does anyone else find it odd that theres been no leakage of fuel/oil? I mean, that hole goes into the engineroom, so surely something must have leaked out...
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I would have thought so too...
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Just read that the ship might sink another 230 feet within a few days time. Also I am reading on the Dutch newspapers that it is all the captain's fault and charges are now pressed against him. :o
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:O
How can it sink anymore? surly its against the seafloor now?
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:O
How can it sink anymore? surly its against the seafloor now?
I guess it is just slipping off. :-\
Also, on Facebook there is this page which significantly looks like she actually IS slipping down. The bridge was more than the half out of the water just around afternoon, and now the bridge is about 3/4 down in the water. Didn't see much change in the angle of listing... :-\
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Ahh :/
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Atleast some good news now! It came just not even an hour ago. :)
Brandweerlieden hebben twee mensen levend aangetroffen in het deels gezonken cruiseschip Costa Concordia bij het Italiaanse eiland Giglio. De opvarenden hebben gesproken met de man en de vrouw, maar hebben hen nog niet kunnen bevrijden uit hun benarde positie.
Translated:
Fireman were able to locate 2 people in the partially sunken ship Costa Concordia at the Italian island of Giglio. The man and women were able to talk to the rescuers but they weren't able to get them out yet.
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That is good to hear :)
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That is good to hear :)
Well, it seems this site is the official reporter here. :doh:
Although, this is quite remarkable:
6:20pm Update: The following is from a crew member that worked on board the Costa Concordia…
''The captain was seen fleeing ship with the money. Wouldn’t allow staff to abandon ship because it would harm his career. Crew had to arrange the evacuation themselves, hence confusion.''
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>:(
Idiotic Dangerous Captain!
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Ooo Negative TFM... Is she spilling any fuel?
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Ooo Negative TFM... Is she spilling any fuel?
1400 tonnes of fuel is still onboard the ship as of this moment. Salvage operations may start any moment now.
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This isn't a good story... I just saw on the news: 46 people unaccounted for, am I right?
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(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/01/14/article-2086831-0F764E5700000578-200_472x530.jpg)
The captain of the Costa Concordia may have been correct in his belief that his ship met its fate off the western Italian coast because of a power failure.
Passengers rescued from the stricken liner reported there had been a power blackout and a large booming noise, which indicated the vessel may have suffered an engine room explosion.
Last night Malcolm Latarche, editor of the global shipping magazine IHS Fairplay Solutions, said the problem may have been caused by a phenomenon known as ‘harmonic interference’.
Mr Latarche said it was possible the cruise liner experienced the same problem that saw the Queen Mary 2 lose power in September 2010 as she was approaching Barcelona. On that occasion, the QM2 was able to carry on into open sea.
The expert said the harmonic interference – a type of power surge – could have caused a malfunction in the generators feeding the ship’s six diesel electric engines with which the back-up systems could not cope.
This would have caused the ship to lose navigational power and steering control and veer off course, he said.
Asked for his assessment of the incident, Mr Latarche said: ‘I would say power failure caused by harmonic interference and then it can’t propel straight or navigate and it hit rocks.’
He added that once a ship experienced problems with the electrical supply to its main propulsion motors, it could lead to a problem with steering.
Mr Latarche said: ‘It seems that this may have happened quite close to land, in shallow water. When you can’t steer you are going to run aground and hit rocks at some point.’
The Costa Concordia, built in 2005, was designed to standards comparable with ocean liners.
Even though it had a rounded hull compared to the stronger V-shaped hull fitted to the Cunard flagship QM2, experts say it was capable of crossing the rough seas of the Atlantic.
Mr Latarche added: ‘Although the damage caused to the ship was severe, there are many safeguards in the design of a state-of-the-art cruise ship to prevent it turning over.
‘There is a second hull within the outer hull. Inside the inner hull there is a steel structure like an ice tray to contain the water and prevent it spreading through the ship.
‘In this case, the Master rightly attempted to return it to the shore, but it seems to have keeled over because it hit shallow water on the coast. An ocean cruise ship is not designed to float in 20ft of water. It needs much more than that to remain upright.’
According to Mr Latarche, the fact that the average tonnage of cruise ships has doubled in the past decade makes a full-scale evacuation while at sea almost impossible.
Under regulations introduced by the International Maritime Organisation in 2010, the very latest ships are now designed to be able to return to port even in the event of a major fire or loss of power on board, in order to make evacuation unnecessary.
The Concordia was commissioned five years prior to the new rules but Mr Latarche said: ‘Even if the most sophisticated ship in the world went into shallow water, the likelihood is it would turn on its side. This was a unique situation in which a number of circumstances all came together.’
Last night, Italian investigators trying to establish the cause of the accident arrested the Captain, Francesco Schettino, and were considering bringing manslaughter charges. The investigators will study repair log books and fault reports for the vessel dating back several years. They will also examine the experience of the officers and crew and examine the roles played by everyone on the day that the liner came to grief.
Since the Eighties the cruise industry has experienced a boom. More than 19 million passengers took a cruise last year and nine or more cruise ships of 100,000 tons or more have been built every year for the past decade.
Although cruise ships appear to be top- heavy, most of their weight is at the bottom, while the structure towards the top is designed to be comparatively light.
Traditionally, the vast majority of cruises have been taken by Americans to the Caribbean islands, but the Mediterranean market is rapidly expanding, with Italy the prime destination. Cruise liners are designed for pleasure voyages, in which the surroundings and the luxurious amenities are the major focus of the experience, rather than the transportation itself.
As an industry, cruising has a safety record generally regarded as excellent. Over the past two decades, an estimated 90 million passengers have enjoyed a cruise without major incident. The overwhelming majority of deaths on cruise ships are from natural causes or suicides. Passenger ships – defined as any ship carrying more than 12 passengers – must comply with International Maritime Organisation regulations, which cover every aspect of the construction and operation.
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At her christening 6 years ago, the champagne bottle failed to break against her hull.
For the superstitious, this was seen as a bad omen..
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possibly true...
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Lets just hope they can find the remaining people that are outstanding
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You can now see the captain taken into custody.
http://mikeyscruiseblog.com/2012/01/13/costaconcordia/
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The two people found are inside a stateroom, more details to follow
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Good. 44 more to go...
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@Danny:
He added that once a ship experienced problems with the electrical supply to its main propulsion motors, it could lead to a problem with steering.
Mr Latarche said: ‘It seems that this may have happened quite close to land, in shallow water. When you can’t steer you are going to run aground and hit rocks at some point.’
Ships should have an emergency steering and an emergency brake system which is deployed when the ship has problems with the propulsion and steering. I think about a braking scupper which is deployed from the bottom of the hull which will act as an emergency brake.
Why the Costa Concordia sank so quicly is that the windows and portholes are rather close to the water line, see the attached image. In case of severe listing, they become submerged and water breaks through the windows with progressive flooding and capsizing as the result.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/94/Costa_Concordia_2.JPG)
Costa Concordia in better times, note the windows and portholes rather close to the water line.
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Update
Apprently the ship hit the rocks some 40 minutes before she "sunk". they were steaming for a safe location to disembark the passengers when she developed the sudden list and muster stations was sounded shortly after.
If that's true then the Captain's action [to ground the vessel] may have saved a lot of lives.
We should be careful what we are saying on here, accusing someone of murder/manslaughter when investigations are still not yet completed. We still do not know the full story.
Also it might be a good idea to be careful what you say about cruise companies - if they discover someone made a defamatory comment about them, they will have no hesitation in bringing their lawyers. The cruise industry is so powerful that they would take the necessary steps to protect their repupation.
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Top marks to Kevin for that comment.
The papers and tv are full of want to be marine experts claiming possible causes; most likely it will turn out to be a series of events conspiring together- as with any disaster it is seldom one isolated incident.
One thing though, I'm not sure if it's a translation issue or what but it appears some of the statements being made by the Italian state are effectively prejudicing the Capt/1st right to a fair trial; I know of several criminal cases that have collapsed due to prejudicial statements issued before an investigation.
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On the Atlantic she would have still been afloat, because there are no reefs there. :P
Idiotic comment.
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Well Stu, if you are the 'know-it-all', then why don't you just find out everything what happened. ::)
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He is the know it all... anyway the captain Francesco.. wasnt he the captain of the costa serena while the episodes of Cruise ship diaries were filmed?
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Ships should have an emergency steering and an emergency brake system which is deployed when the ship has problems with the propulsion and steering. I think about a braking scupper which is deployed from the bottom of the hull which will act as an emergency brake.
All ships HAVE an emergency steering system. It can be used when the steering system fails. It's a major SOLAS requirement and regular drills are held to familiarise all staff on a ship of the method to operate it. The emergency system is operated locally from the steering flat (the space that has the machinery to turn the rudder). Normally, it is a "quick deployment system" and the rudder can be controlled locally based on helm orders given from the bridge.
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3 people have been rescued from inside the costa concordia!
@lars
I think he was, and if what we saw in those episodes was his "normal" way of command, he seemed like a very proffesional captain who knew his job.
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Well Stu, if you are the 'know-it-all', then why don't you just find out everything what happened. ::)
That's the whole point. I DON'T KNOW. And neither does anyone else here. Every time a ship sinks or has an accident, people here seem to think they are qualified to make statements of fact- rather than opinion. To my knowledge there are 8 or so people here who have qualifications that allow them to make educated statements about what might have happened.
Thus far only two of them have made posts here and they have refrained from speculation turning into statement of fact.
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That's the whole point. I DON'T KNOW. And neither does anyone else here. Every time a ship sinks or has an accident, people here seem to think they are qualified to make statements of fact- rather than opinion. To my knowledge there are 8 or so people here who have qualifications that allow them to make educated statements about what might have happened.
Thus far only two of them have made posts here and they have refrained from speculation turning into statement of fact.
I never said I thought I was 'qualified' for this. :-\
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He is the know it all... anyway the captain Francesco.. wasnt he the captain of the costa serena while the episodes of Cruise ship diaries were filmed?
No I don't. If you took your head out your backside for long enough you'd see that I was saying the exact opposite. The difference between me and people like you is that I am wise enough to know this.
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I never said I thought I was 'qualified' for this. :-\
Well, we're agreed on something then.
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Florence newspaper reporting now 17 people still missing.
A bit of info on the couple rescued from insde the hull, they were a south korean couple on a honeymoon. They are shaken, but otherwise ok.
The firm "smit salvage" has apprently being tasked with removing fuel from the costa, estimates are that it will take around 2 weeks.
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If it will take two weeks to remove the fuel, how long to try and salvage, I wonder? Seas seem to be unkind to beached ships. Perhaps I will be using the remains of the metal to shave with shortly...
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There may be a large quantity of fuel to transfer, as she would have been fully tanked for her journey.
After they repair the hole, it shouldn't be too hard to refloat her (so don't throw away your electric razor just yet)
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The death toll has now been brought up to 5. :'(
10:30am: 2 bodies of passengers have been found on the Costa Concordia, this now brings the death toll to 5.
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The death toll has now been brought up to 5. :'(
Just heard it aswell on the radio. :'(
Found by divers, according to the Italian coast guard
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:'(
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Since several horror scenarios swashing through the media, we should keep in mind the following figures: within the last 25 years more than 300 Million people have made a cruise, that equals 2,1 Billion passengerdays on board. In total 13 (in words: thirteen) of those were killed due to a damage! Taking a cruise is still the safest way to travel. Beside that, every death far too much.
Source: ShipPax Information, Sweden
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hope it doent go to 6 or higher :-[
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About the captain statement of mine, its another captain the one i thought was francesco russo
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Costa Cruises reaffirms its deepest sorrow for this terrible incident that has struck his loved ones: his guests, its employees, its own vessel, apologized for the suffering and discomfort that these people have suffered and extends more condolences to the families of victims found.
Approximately 1,100 people of Costa Cruises all over the world are working on the evening of Friday in the management of this terrible accident and their priority was to support the rescue operations, assisting guests and crew and bring them safely to their residence.
The search and rescue operations are still being coordinated by the Coast Guard and the Italian authorities. We confirm that unfortunately there are still the missing and, since the situation is constantly changing, we are not allowed to provide data.
The Captain Francesco Schettino, who was in command of the Costa Concordia, Costa Cruises has entered into in 2002 as a security officer and promoted commander in 2006, after being second in command. Like all commanders of the fleet, he has participated in a continuous program of upgrading and training and has passed all the tests of suitability provided.
As previously announced, the Judiciary, with which Costa Cruises is working, the detaining of the Commander, to which serious allegations have been made. It seems that the commander has made an error of judgment who have had serious consequences: the route followed by the ship was too close to the coast, and it seems that its decisions in emergency management have not followed the procedures that are in line Costa Cruises and, in some cases go beyond international standards.
Costa Cruises is operating in full compliance with all rules relating to safety and is proud of the commitment of its employees dedicated to managing the safety of our guests.
All crew members have a certificate BST (Basic Safety Training), are educated and trained in the management of emergencies and to assist guests in case of abandon ship through numerous exercises. Roles, responsibilities and tasks are clearly defined and assigned to help manage a situation so important.
All crew members make one abandon ship drill every two weeks. For all guests on the cruise is scheduled exercise within 24 hours after the day of embarkation, as required by law. Costa Cruises has a computerized system that makes sure that all guests have participated in the exercise, and consequently put a remedy.
The preparation of the crew members is periodically checked by Costa Cruises Coast Guard and the independent rating agencies in line with respect to the requirements specified in the SMS (Safety Management Systems).
On board the Costa Concordia and Costa ships are all available life jackets, rafts and boats greater than the maximum number of persons that can be hosted by the ship. The spears are safety equipment, such as water supplies and food, medicine boxes and tools for reporting and communication, which allow you to safely wait for the arrival of relief. The spears are also the subject of careful periodic checks by the ship’s personnel and certification bodies. All Costa Cruises ships are certified by RINA and are built to the highest standards and technologies.
Following the accident, Costa Cruises has responded immediately to prevent a potential environmental impact and since Saturday is using the world’s leading companies in the industry, & Smit Salvage, which is developing a plan of action, immediate action short term is to build a containment barrier around the hull.
The Judiciary has submitted to seize the ship and the VDR – the so-called “black boxâ€. Costa Cruises can then access the ship only with the permission of authorities .
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thats a long statement.
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there is nothing on the website telling me the boat is safe
http://www.costacruises.co.uk/gb/costa_concordia.html
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If they authorities sezie the ship there prettymuch 0 chance of any salavage work being carried out, bar the removal of fuel.
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I just heard on the news that a Dutch sister company of "Smit" is hired for the salvage of the costa Concordia.
*
http://www.rnw.nl/english/bulletin/dutch-company-salvaging-costa-concordia (http://www.rnw.nl/english/bulletin/dutch-company-salvaging-costa-concordia)
They already started cleaning the oil :thumbs:
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Yep, Smit is the appointed salvage contractor. There also one of the best company's in the world
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news about the disater
there are only 17 unnacounted people now
not the 70 that was announced yesterday ;)
just hope the rest are fine
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there is nothing on the website telling me the boat is safe
http://www.costacruises.co.uk/gb/costa_concordia.html
Who says I am looking there..?
Photo's now available of the ship underwater!
http://mikeyscruiseblog.com/
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its just weird.. you dont expect seeing a ship like that in the current position/condition
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its just weird.. you dont expect seeing a ship like that in the current position/condition
There is a saying, and I hope it's not minded to say, which is: S**t just happens.
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Shes been comfirmed as scrap (wikipedia.org)
and will be the larges passager vessel with the greatest loss since the titanic
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There is a saying, and I hope it's not minded to say, which is: S**t just happens.
When people die its not S**t Happens
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Shes been comfirmed as scrap (wikipedia.org)
and will be the larges passager vessel with the greatest loss since the titanic
:doh: :doh: :doh:
wikipedia knows how... xD
greatest loss? how when most people survived?
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Shes been comfirmed as scrap (wikipedia.org)
and will be the larges passager vessel with the greatest loss since the titanic
Why... do most people compare this disaster with Titanic...?
I mean, if I had a dinghy and it sank, I can hardly say it was like Titanic... ::)
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she has NOT being confirmed as scrap, or atleast not offically. Several industry leaders are however saying that they think she's going to be declared a "constructive total loss"
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Whilst I am, like everyone, horrified by the loss of life in this disaster I personally feel it is a bit of poetic justice for Costa Cruises. It is only a relatively short time ago that a lot of shipyard workers, and the Company they worked, for lost their jobs at Cammell Lairds shipyard in Birkenhead, England. This was caused by Costa requiring Lairds to build a very expensive centre section for one of their Cruise ships, then refusing to take it for reasons best known to themselves. This caused Cammell Lairds yard to go bust and be left with a large piece of very expensive scrap steel. They say that what goes around comes around. I think that is possibly true, sad, but true.
This is a quote from BBC at the time:-
Wednesday, 11 April, 2001, 20:30 GMT 21:30 UK
Cammell Laird: what went wrong
Cammell Laird has called in the receivers
UK shipyard Cammell Laird has given its version of the events that led to Wednesday's decision to call in the receivers.
In a statement, the Mersyside shipbuilder said its decision followed a series of problems that caused significant damage to its trading and financial position.
In Autumn 2000, the ship builder and repair yard had a record level of enquiries totalling approximately £750m which gave the directors high confidence in the future prospects of the group.
The business had grown substantially reporting pre-tax profits to April 2000 of £15.9m.
Investment was made in employees and infrastructure in anticipation of further growth. But the enquiries did not translate into firm orders, the company said.
Government contracts
In late October, a six ship contract for the Ministry of Defence was awarded to the German shipyard, Flensburger, and Harland and Wolff.
The company claims a further naval order for four large landing craft could not be pursued with any prospect of success due to the Government's bidding process.
The work was awarded to BAE Systems and Swan Hunter, with the result, Cammell Laird claims, that its shipyards were the only major facilities in the country not to benefit from Government orders.
Italian cruise ship
But the biggest impact on the deterioration in Cammell Laird's position was the dispute over the Italian cruise-liner Costa Classica.
The contract involved a £50m lengthening of a cruise ship.
Signed in late summer of 1999, the work involved building a mid-body section for insertion into the vessel between November 2000 and March 2001.
Given the credit worthiness of Costa Crociere, Cammell Laird's confidence in its own technical ability, and the desire to further establish itself in the important cruise ship market, the British company says it agreed to accept a contract with back end payments.
However, the ship's operator, Costa Coriciere, pulled the plug on the order as the ship was sailing to Cammell Laird's yard.
Cammell said it had considered legal action against Costa Coriciere, but has been advised it would take two years for a case to be resolved.
Damaging
Cammell says the Costa dispute has been very damaging to its business.
Apart from the loss of profit on the contract and significant cash outflow, the company says it has suffered the additional costs of downsizing the workforce, carrying excess overhead costs and the significant negative impact on employee morale.
Furthermore, the trade and financial markets have begun to doubt Cammell Laird's financial viability, which, combined with media speculation, has damaged the company's trading and financial position.
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:doh: :doh: :doh:
wikipedia knows how... xD
greatest loss? how when most people survived?
financhaly
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2 more people have been found.... dead.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16568760
JUST IN
The company operating a cruise ship than capsized after hitting rocks off western Italy on Friday says the captain may have "committed errors".
He appears to have ignored the firm's emergency procedures "which are in line with international standards", Costa Crociere said in a statement.
Capt Francesco Schettino is suspected of manslaughter, but denies wrongdoing.
At least five people have died but about 15 remain unaccounted for. Divers are trying to find more survivors.
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I've already said this on the last page, but a repeat is never wrong to say so in this occasion.
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today in Denamrk i have been walking around and hearing people talking about that they wouldn't go on a cruise, i was talking to someone and said to them, GIVE ME A TCKET AND IM LEAVING, i wouldn't hessitate taking a cruise tomorrow or at anytime, i have been on 7 and im still going cruising, i don't care, if all said that everytime a plane crash, no one will be flying and all the world well be on a stand still...
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Why do they say the water was freezing cold? its only like 71 degrees. I heard about a couple that was trapped in there for 36 hours. i dont even know how that is possible.
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According to the Italian news agency ANSA the sixth casualty has been found. :'( The identity is still unknown
This makes the number of lost people to 14.
Source: http://www.nu.nl/buitenland/2715991/weer-lichaam-gevonden-in-cruiseschip.html ;D
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Only really able to speculate at the moment, but...
The stabilisers were out which is usually something which is only done when the ship is considered to be on passage rather than normal manoeuvring, so it is likely that if the situation was considered normal then the watertight doors would most likely have been open and what would have been sudden and catastrophic flooding would have meant that compartments would have flooded before the doors were able to be closed.
When a ship like this is manoevring in restricted waters there will normally be either captain or deputy captain on the bridge, chief engineer or deputy chief engineer in the engine control room, all water tight doors closed, extra generators running and some other things which had this been considered a routine passage situation would not have been in place, IMHO if this was not considered to be manoeuvring in restricted waters then that is likely to be seen as the root cause of the accident, but like anything similar there will have been a chain of errors which will have caused it to happen.
They have now confirmed 6 deaths and 16 missing, while the probable loss of 22 lives is dreadful and tragic, more than 99% of those onboard survived, a remarkable figure when you look at what happened.
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There is now a story that the captain sailed so close to the island to please his head waiter..
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20120116/world/cruise-captain-sailed-near-island-for-head-waiter.402548
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According to the BBC, the search has been suspended after the costa started sink further...
@Clanky, Surely though, if the captain hit the rocks some 40 minutes before the grounding, as reported, shouldn't the watertight doors have been closed?
EDIT
Costa is still talking of putting the concordia back into service :o
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According to the BBC, the search has been suspended after the costa started sink further...
@Clanky, Surely though, if the captain hit the rocks some 40 minutes before the grounding, as reported, shouldn't the watertight doors have been closed?
EDIT
Costa is still talking of putting the concordia back into service :o
i'd forget taking her back into service, maybe as a Hotel or as museum
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Last I heard, they planned to blast holes in her hull for better access to the lower decks..
This was abandoned because of danger of the ship slipping into deeper water..
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Danny,
a) I'm only guessing at what happened, the doors may have been closed beforehand, but my best guess based on experience of working on ships like this would be that some of the doors would have been open if the ship was in it's normal at sea operational mode, watertight doors are required to be capable of being closed from the bridge in less than 1 minute so in the event of the breach of one compartment in the manner that the pictures would suggest happened the flooding would have been extensive in adjacent compartments before the doors would have been closed.
b) It is quite possible that the doors were closed and that the tear along the side opened up more than one compartment then when the ship was grounded again on the coast of Isola di Goglio that the hull was further breached.
It is really quite difficult to know exactly what has happened from the pictures on TV, but as I said above the fact that the stabilisers were out would indicate that the ship was considered to be on sea passage rather than manoeuvring, so my best guess would be (a) above.
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i'd forget taking her back into service, maybe as a Hotel or as museum
Or as razor blades, don't be confuesed by the fact that they have employed a salvage company, at this stage this is simply to prevent any further environmental damage rather than any attempt to recover the wreck.
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Or as razor blades
i would cry..
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We won't know what's going to happen to the concordia yet, as she's currently siezed by the italian police as "evidence". I must admit the chances of her being recoverd in her current state are practically 0. but the chances of her being a coke can are much higher ::)
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I with Danny. It is most likely she will be cut up. I can not see her being used again after this.
Kyle
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9:25am: Death toll rises to 6, search is suspended. The Concordia is now sliding in to the ocean and will most likely fully sink.
:'(
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why not just make the Concordia a manmade reef? itll bring more tourism to italy
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why not just make the Concordia a manmade reef? itll bring more tourism to italy
What about the fuel and other (poisonous) objects inside that ship? Believe me, it's not that simple as you might think. :P
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they have to get it out at some point i mean it has been done before
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What about the fuel and other (poisonous) objects inside that ship? Believe me, it's not that simple as you might think. :P
well i did see a show on History Channel when they sunk an aircraft carrier, long task. but when theyre all done taking out the fuel and whatnot.
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well i did see a show on History Channel when they sunk an aircraft carrier, long task. but when theyre all done taking out the fuel and whatnot.
I think that aircraft carrier was the USS Oriskany, but that was a controlled sinking (with preparations!). :P
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I think that aircraft carrier was the USS Oriskany, but that was a controlled sinking (with preparations!). :P
an unscheduled one then? :)
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an unscheduled one then? :)
Not really... but please, don't see this sinking as a joke. :-\
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Not really... but please, don't see this sinking as a joke. :-\
no im not trying to make it a joke! im sorry if it came off that way.
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What an Idiot that captain is... Showing off... And that got 6 people killed!
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This article offers a different opinion of the captain and crew...
http://gcaptain.com/shame-you-costa-concordias/
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I can;t see how anyone bar the Captain would know this stuff - best to wait a bit I think
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:o I'm still trying to figure out why the Guest Services Manager is defending the Captain!
Oh, almost forgot,
Shame on you!!!(http://80.95.161.114/shipsim/forum/Smileys/default/angry.gif)
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Again - how do we know yet - has the Captain come out and admitted doing this?
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I saw on the news he was showing off to a friend! Showing Off!? SHOWING OFF!!?? He should be more than arrested for that kind of recklessness!
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But who told the news he was showing off? how did they know?
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Channel 5, no clue.. But I just heard on NBC,
The captain Abandoned the ship before the passengers were safe!What a coward..
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how did they know?
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Pfft.. Don't get my angry. ::) I don't work at Channel 5...
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i am not angry ;)
Accroding to one paper I saw once, P&O operate Dover-Dunkerque - impressive! :doh: :doh:
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:o I'm still trying to figure out why the Guest Services Manager is defending the Captain!
Oh, almost forgot,
Shame on you!!!(http://80.95.161.114/shipsim/forum/Smileys/default/angry.gif)
Like most people, I do not know the full facts relating to this accident; however I do feel that it is a shame that comments like this are posted after viewing the 'news' who are having a field day on the whole subject and will grab any rumour/ story in order to hype it up even more.
Even though the Master may ultimately be found fully responsible for the accident, I think it is a shame to see the lack of respect shown for someone who, after all, has a lot of seagoing experience, particularly before the solid facts have been identified.
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Don't forget the news have a habit of "over doing" things, so they'll milk the point right till the end. So, there spinning what the captain did WAY out of proportion because they know it will get views and ratings...
So, before we jump to any conclusions, how's about we wait until we know ALL the facts before pointing the finger, eh?
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I'l just stay out of this until all of the facts are known...
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I'l just stay out of this until all of the facts are known...
Thats a good idea ;)
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One more thing and I'll shut up.
(http://oi41.tinypic.com/2vce06c.jpg)
Black: CC's route
White: Designated route
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that was to try and save the ship...
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What? She struck the rock near land!
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they turned off when it was found the ship was listing
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he actually saved the ship and probably a lot more lives by steering toward land
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Channel 5, no clue.. But I just heard on NBC,
The captain Abandoned the ship before the passengers were safe!What a coward..
the dutch news framed this as ''The best sailors... Jump offboard''
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One more thing and I'll shut up.
(http://oi41.tinypic.com/2vce06c.jpg)
Black: CC's route
White: Designated route
Hello, Captain cadet is not a bad sailor guys!
Channel 5, no clue.. But I just heard on NBC,
The captain Abandoned the ship before the passengers were safe!What a coward..
----- Coward is the only thing i can say
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16598232
5 more bodies have been found inside the reck of the concordia, bringing the death total up to 11. My thoughts are with the families now morning the loss of a loved on :'(
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16591495
They have now started blasting holes in the reck to aid rescue workers
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While things certainly do look very damning for the captain, don't forget that when this trial moves from the media to a court room there will be other very powerful people who will be facing some very awkward questions. Some of these people may not be above starting a propaganda war to ensure that the blame lies firmly with the captain rather than anyone ashore in Livorno or Florida.
If the master "deviated from the programmed course" as the company claimed he did, who programmed the course and why, if as it appears did the audits which both the company and flag state are legally required to carry out not uncover these regular flagrant breaches of procedure that no-one ashore knew anything about, ever, your honour?
The company claim that he did not follow the Costa evacuation procedures, would these procedures themselves hold up to scrutiny, or will it be more convenient for everyone to be focusing on the fact that they weren't followed?
The passenger evacuation drill was delayed, there is an allowance for this to happen in SOLAS, if certain other controls are put in place (a safety video being continually played on the passenger TV circuit and passengers to receive a brief safety lecture), did the company ensure that these were in place.
Yes, it looks as though the captain has made some very serious mistakes, for which he should be made to answer, but the media are only reporting the information that they are being given, take a look at who is giving them that information.
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We can only guess what went on in the mind of the captain after the disaster.. Perhaps the shame and the guilt were too much for him at the moment..
As I understand it, the ship does follow a programmed course, perhaps a bit like the autopilot on a plane.
This can only be deviated from by manual input on the bridge. Evidence suggests that the captain wished to leave the normal course and sail close by the island. It seems he got a bit too close before he turned to starboard, thus damaging the port stern hull, and tried to return onto the regular course. After realizing the damage was too great he turned the ship back to the island, damaging the starboard hull as well. But by beaching the ship he did manage to facilitate the disembarkment of most of the passengers. Unfortunately not all. This will weigh heavy on his mind.
I understand he is under constant serveillance, so he does not harm himself while in prison.
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@Clanky:
The passenger evacuation drill was delayed, there is an allowance for this to happen in SOLAS, if certain other controls are put in place (a safety video being continually played on the passenger TV circuit and passengers to receive a brief safety lecture), did the company ensure that these were in place.
I think that these SOLA-regulations will be tightened after the disaster.
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@Clanky:
I think that these SOLA-regulations will be tightened after the disaster.
I think you mean STCW.
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@Clanky:
I think that these SOLA-regulations will be tightened after the disaster.
At the moment the International Maritime Organisation - which is responsible for the regulation of ship safety across the world- allow up to 24 hours after embarkation for boat drills to take place aboard a cruise vessel. I think this will be tightened, possibly in future boat drills will have to be carried out before a vessel can leave port.
However I think there will be a huge outcry from cruise companies, so my guess is that the current regulations regarding boat drills could be changed to 12 hours or even 8 hours after port departure (which would not have made a difference in Costa Concordia's case anyway).
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I know I've already posted a link to this, however, theres now a video of a discussion between the Cpt and the coastgaurd commander. The coastgaurd commander is basically telling the Cpt to get aboard, it actually makes for quite interesting listening
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16598232
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(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/57918000/gif/_57918028_costa_concordia_route_464.gif)
TFM... Heres a better photo. What is listing?
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huh? Sorry what do you mean?
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they turned off when it was found the ship was listing
What is listing?
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When a ship is leaning on one side, normally due to damage
http://image.guim.co.uk/Guardian/world/gallery/2007/nov/23/1/GD5416356@Mandatory-Credit-Phot-8793.jpg
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The captain is clearly at fault here.
While a similar route was used a few days before. According to the news and the GPS from the ship, she did not go as near to the rocks as she did on the weekend, and the captain was not authorized to go as close to the shore or even take the route he took.
The shore in which the vessel foundered next too would have been passing by to the ships port. The ship lay to rest with the bow facing the way the ship had come from. It does show on the vessels last movements from the news that as she approached the shore she made a hard to port maneuver. Given that the ship is now on it's side and the original damage sustained to the ships port side under the water line appears to be out the water. This makes me think that the ship could have been effected by something similar to what is known as 'the free surface effect'. In which water inside a hull sloshing about makes a vessel unstable. Resulting in the hard left maneuver causing the ship to actually capsize.
This makes me question the captains actions even more, knowing his ship was taking on water and knowing about the free surface effect from his maritime training, but still executing a hard left maneuver, which to me, appears to be the cause of the actual capsize of the ship.
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and also why he had his stablizers out also
what do you guys think about this?
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2012/01/costa_concordia_sinking_what_s_the_etiquette_for_abandoning_ship_.html
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The captain is clearly at fault here.
While a similar route was used a few days before. According to the news and the GPS from the ship, she did not go as near to the rocks as she did on the weekend, and the captain was not authorized to go as close to the shore or even take the route he took.
The shore in which the vessel foundered next too would have been passing by to the ships port. The ship lay to rest with the bow facing the way the ship had come from. It does show on the vessels last movements from the news that as she approached the shore she made a hard to port maneuver. Given that the ship is now on it's side and the original damage sustained to the ships port side under the water line appears to be out the water. This makes me think that the ship could have been effected by something similar to what is known as 'the free surface effect'. In which water inside a hull sloshing about makes a vessel unstable. Resulting in the hard left maneuver causing the ship to actually capsize.
This makes me question the captains actions even more, knowing his ship was taking on water and knowing about the free surface effect from his maritime training, but still executing a hard left maneuver, which to me, appears to be the cause of the actual capsize of the ship.
The turn to port was in order to put the ship aground in a place where she could be safely evacuated and probabpy saved many lives, in this case free surface effect probably didn't play a huge partinthe capsize, when you look at how she eventually came to rest it is more likely that she was hard aground on the port side and then sank bodily causing her to heel further and further to starboard.
As for why thge stabilisers were out, the vessel was on passage rather than considered to be manouvring (see my comment above) and it would have been normal for the fins to be out.
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It will be interesting to see the report at the end of it all...but even then, I don't suppose we'll ever know all the facts. It's very easy for people to sit here and criticise the Master, and to some extent, quite rightly so...but the danger is to make the Master a scapegoat for the accident altogether.
There are so many unanswered questions, and as Clanky said, awkward questions, which other people have yet to answer. As it stands, all we know are the construed 'facts' about the Master, which the media have bumped up to make a good story. What about the other officers? Costa themselves?...I'll be waiting for the report before I make my mind up entirely. But even then, you never know who wrote that either, or how many brown envelopes will be passed around beforehand...
Jack.
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The turn to port was in order to put the ship aground in a place where she could be safely evacuated and probabpy saved many lives, in this case free surface effect probably didn't play a huge partinthe capsize, when you look at how she eventually came to rest it is more likely that she was hard aground on the port side and then sank bodily causing her to heel further and further to starboard.
I see what your saying yes, I only made that assumption because the actual damage to the ship is now clear out the water. I would have thought that if she just carried on sinking the hole in the ship would not have come clean out the water, but something has made that hole come out the water. But who knows hey.
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The search for missing persons has again been halted because the concordia moved a small amount
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16606405
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Reports are comming in that there was a Moldovan woman beside the captain on the bridge when the accident happened!
i now beilived he may have been showing off! maybe to a girlfreind.
but they cant find her on the passanger lists
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You sure?? Italian people and showing off.. :o Who saw that one coming.. :-\ :D
Maybe that's why he "fell" in the lifeboat. His girlfriend was in there... :o
Really that man is making everything worse, by making up the stupidest excuses..
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Of course she wasn't on the passenger list, cc, she worked onboard as crew!
BTW Clanky, would captain courageous not have used the stabiliser to try to trim the ship to keep it upright or would that have made SFA difference? I assume (though just a guess) that the stabilisers surfaces can be manually controlled.
One billion quid wiped off carnivals total value- that could end up finishing off the whole of the group- certainly costa is finished now- the name will never recover given that they seem to have a habit of smacking their ships into very hard rocks and quaysides.
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Now I got some news. ;D
According to CNN with information from a Pilapino TV channel. The captain of the Costa Concordia had order diner for two person, himself and a women. Within a hour after the collision with the rock. The Costa concordia had a collision at 21.42 and around 22.30 he order the dinner, according to a Filipino cook. :-\
However he felt that something was going on. Because all the cocking equipment fell off the kitchen table..
The women was likely a 25 year old female from Moldova.
The story is getting better and better a day..
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Of course she wasn't on the passenger list, cc, she worked onboard as crew!
BTW Clanky, would captain courageous not have used the stabiliser to try to trim the ship to keep it upright or would that have made SFA difference? I assume (though just a guess) that the stabilisers surfaces can be manually controlled.
One billion quid wiped off carnivals total value- that could end up finishing off the whole of the group- certainly costa is finished now- the name will never recover given that they seem to have a habit of smacking their ships into very hard rocks and quaysides.
sorry
i meant on the list of everyone onbored.
someone has a GirlFreind <3 :doh:
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Here's a brief exploitation on various Italian agencies involved in the operations:
Vigili del Fuoco - Fire Brigade;
Capitaneria di Porto or Guardia Costiera - Coast Guard;
Marina Militare - Navy;
Guardia di Finanza - Border/custom police;
Carabinieri - Military corp committed to internal security/police duties (Like French Gendarmerie Nationale and Spanish Guardia Civil).
Protezione Civile - Civil Defence authority
Hope this is helping you to understand the news, especially from Italian source...
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news comming in
a welsh widdow had lost her husbans ashes :thumbdown:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-east-wales-16648829
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Another body has been found aboard, bringing the death total up to 12.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16666669
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Nvm wrong ship
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Smit personnel is now on site to pump the fuel out of the ship, in order to avoid further environmental damage, and to study the situation for ship salvage
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Capt. corageous has stated that he couldn't bear to be a Captain again. News for you, sunshine, you don't have a choice.
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Capt. corageous has stated that he couldn't bear to be a Captain again. News for you, sunshine, you don't have a choice.
I wounder if he can't bear to stay in his house for a few years?
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how did you manage to do that?
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anchoring the ship
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Guys, seriously?!? 12 people have lost there lives, and you two are joking and thinking its "cool" to try and recreate what happend? please show some respect.
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i didnt say anything about recreating it....and wasnt even planning on doing it
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this was incidental, i was doing the mission on ss08 and anchored the ship and have gone this way
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Thank you Danny, couldn't have put it better myself.
A thread about the loss of a ship with at least 12 lives is not the place for flippant screenshots.
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Capt. corageous has stated that he couldn't bear to be a Captain again. News for you, sunshine, you don't have a choice.
What a silly thing for him to say - no shipping company would touch him with a barge pole.
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also someone lost a loveone's ashes
guys. their is nowhere in any of the ss series you can do is so why bother anyway? :thumbdown:
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also someone lost a loveone's ashes
guys. their is nowhere in any of the ss series you can do is so why bother anyway? :thumbdown:
What do the SS series have to do with this??
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This captain didn't act like Concoridia's one : Youtube video. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltEDCCqF_pc)
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13th death person has found in the ship
19 people still missing
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i hate to say this but as humans need to have fresh water in there systems or they'll die and that the air bubbles there may be in are high in CO2 and being starved for a week and 2 days i think ether there on land but not found or gone home without the rescue operation going or if they in the ship there sadly probity dead :(
but to be honnest there could have been a lot more deaths if maybe she sank in the middle of the sea or about 25 meters from where she sunk as the sea would have been deeper
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A body has been found aboard of a woman, bringing the death toll upto 13.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16672216
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he just cant make up his story. http://overheadbin.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/22/10210202-cruise-ship-captain-says-he-was-told-to-perform-fatal-maneuver
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15 people have now been confirmed dead as a result of the costa concordia disaster. Efforts are underway to remove the fuel, they are also using HE to blast there way into the ship to help search for casulties.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-16687012
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whats happening in the maritime world
23-1-2012 at the philippines are 2 cargo ships sunk and 1 damaged (the sun spirit,Panama and the Seaford 11,philippines) no one died
22-1-2012 17 death 5 saved, because capsizing ship in the street of Hormuz
20-1-2012 a big ship (Aztec maiden)beached at Wijk aan zee (Holland near Amsterdam) no injured (she is floating again)
(http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb426/michael-taal/1478058.jpg)
20-1-2012 Istanbul a cargo ship (kayan-1) hits 2 other cargo vessels (slocherdiep and the Adria blu) no one injured but the Kayan-1 is beached.
(http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb426/michael-taal/131371276_11n.jpg)
18-1-2012 a tanker (athiri) of the coast from Hook of Holland hits an another tanker (Sloman themis) no one injured but both ships have damage above the waterline (the captain from the Athiri has a fee for dangerous manouvres and he have to pay 10.000 euro )
(http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb426/michael-taal/slomanthemis.jpg)
(http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb426/michael-taal/Athiri.jpg)
18-1-2012 a small trawler (Tit bonhomme) sank at the coast of Ireland 5 are still missing (3 Egyptian and 2 Irish)
(http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb426/michael-taal/titbonhomme.jpg)
16-1-2012 a fishingboat capsized at the coast from Zeebrugge (Belgium) 1 Death 1 still missing
15-1-2012 a tanker exploses at the coast from South-korea 5 death 6 still missing (normally she transports Diesel but this time she had benzin loaded maybe the gas caused a explosion)
(http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb426/michael-taal/tanker.jpg)
11-1-2012 a korean fishing vessel sinks at Antarctica 37 saved 3 death
14-1-2012 gibraltar a ferry and a cargo ship collided 2 slightly injured
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salvage company Smit has green light to pump the oil out of the Costa concordia
(sorry for the double post)
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Talking about an epic failure... Advertisement to join the Costa Concordia valid from january 16th till january 21st.. :doh:
(http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/9461/40371110150563818550747.jpg)
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Reconstruction of the Costa Concordia Tragedy, Narration by John Konrad
http://vimeo.com/35351659 (http://vimeo.com/35351659)
Kyle
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Michael, that post was a bit off topic...
@ballast :doh:
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he just cant make up his story. http://overheadbin.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/22/10210202-cruise-ship-captain-says-he-was-told-to-perform-fatal-maneuver
Hopefully the investigation will start asking the SALIENT questions soon.
Remember that it suits the management of costa to keep talking about the captain as it saves talking about their APPARENT total disregard for ship management. Two scenarios:
1. costa well aware of his lunatic antics (likely)- in which case if they knew he was reckless and did nothing then the ceo could also face corporate manslaughter type charges.
2. costa not aware of his lunatic antics and basic ship keeping requirements (psgr manifests, lifeboat training etc). then the ceo could also face corporate manslaughter type charges.
The captain won't be the only person to go down with this ship I think.
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Michael, that post was a bit off topic...
I think the point is that while there is a media frenzy over the Costa Concordia, no-one is interested in the myriad of other incidents at sea where the vistims are "only seafarers".
@Stuart, exactly this.
There is also another issue, there is a law which strictly limits the companies liabilty in case of shipwreck. By purchasing a ticket to travel on a ship you enter into a contract with the shipowner, as part of that contract the ship owners liability is limited in the event of shipwreck unless the owner is proven to have acted willfully or wrecklessly with the knowledge that a shipwreck was likely to occur. (I can't remember the exact wording, it has been a while since I studied maritime law and that particular bit thankfully doesn't crop up in my day to day correspondence!, but it is certainly words to that effect.)
The law is basically designed to stop a ship owner deliberately sinking a ship with passengers onboard in order to claim the insurance money safe in the knowledge that his liability to those passenmgers is limited.
I think part of this whole media campaign against the captain, while it is undoubtedly in part to limit their blame in any enquiry and deflect media attention from their failings for PR reasons, may also be directly aimed at pre-empting any idea that the above law could be interpreted in any way as to remove their limitation of liability because they acted wrecklessly with the knowledge that a shipwreck may result by allowing the Concordia to pass so close to Giglio Island.
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Clanky,
The land based laws aren't all that dis-similar though. If (as a bus/coach manager) I employ a competent professional who screws up one time without my prior knowledge, I can said to be 'safe' from come back. But if I knowingly allow an idiot to drive the bus- OR SHOULD have known he was an idiot and allowed him nonetheless then I am just as guilty as him.
Surely if a situation arises where costa SHOULD have known that he was acting reckless (even if it can't be proven that they actually DID) then the same rules apply as those you outlined. It wouldn't be difficult would it to prove they SHOULD have known. I recall being told on my first bridge visit (of a 'modern' ship) where the 1st Officer explained the equipment- lamenting the days when they could sail off course without getting an email straight away from head office demanding to know why.
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It will be interesting to see how this all pans out when it finally comes to court. In terms of any criminal liability Costa are IMHO, screwed.
In terms of their civil liability they are covered by the limitation of liability in the contract which the passengers will have agreed to in the terms and condition opf booking other than in what are meant to be very clearly defined circumstances, i.e. if they deliberately wreck a vessel for the insurance money,
it is the interpretation of the wording of that law which will be interesting, especially if it copmes to light in court that they were either aware of the captain's actions in this instance or aware that he acted in this manner previously and done nothing to prevent a re-occurance.
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Given the worldwide attention on this specific case it could end up setting precedents for the future. One wonders (and this is speculation on my part) whether other incidents with costa are through similar activities.
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I wonder what the IMO will do after these 'lessons learned'. Surely they will come up with new procedures and such after this disaster.
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Given the worldwide attention on this specific case it could end up setting precedents for the future. One wonders (and this is speculation on my part) whether other incidents with costa are through similar activities.
Certainly not related to sail pasts, I know Costa Europa at Sharm was due to strong winds gusting as the ship berthed, although Costa do seem to have a lot of incidents under their belt, they do have a lot of ships.
I wonder what the IMO will do after these 'lessons learned'. Surely they will come up with new procedures and such after this disaster.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict that IMO will issue very strict new guidelines on how many copies of checklists will have to be filed in which filing cabinet.
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I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict that IMO will issue very strict new guidelines on how many copies of checklists will have to be filed in which filing cabinet.
We are already buried with checklist so one or two extra to prevent 'cellphone courses' won't be much difference!
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the rescuers had said that the missing persons are dead, if there will somebody found alive it must be a miracle.
this disaster will now have 32 dead people :'(
my heart goes to the family's from the dead people
will they rest in peace
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I haven't heared any confirmation from anyone. :-\
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The only way that it will be confirmed is when bodies are recovered, but there is no realistic chance of anyone being left alive on the ship and very little chance of anyone being unaccounted for.
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http://scheepvaartnieuws.punt.nl/index.php?r=1&id=566340&tbl_archief=0#566340
in english
it says that the rescuers had said that it isnt possible anymore to find people alive 16 bodies are recovered and 16 are still missing.
we have to accept that under this conditions theres no hope for finding people alive
said Franco Gabrielli thursday he is leading in name from the Italian protection for human the salvage
I can accept that there will be no more alive i mean almost 2 weeks in a air bubble with no fresh air (you will probably die because when we breathe we produce carbon monoxide and that is venemous for us) and with no water (because if you drink the water from the sea you will de-hydrate bacause it is so salt) and no food.
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The only way that it will be confirmed is when bodies are recovered, but there is no realistic chance of anyone being left alive on the ship and very little chance of anyone being unaccounted for.
Given the apparent sloppy ways in which passenger manifests have been compiled (according to media!!!) it's going to take a bit of detective work to establish how many people really were on board. Bodies could be out at sea and never be recovered.
When the Herald capsized in 1987, the resultant change was two-fold: Firstly, a rebranding exercise to P&O Ferries, which it effectively was at the time anyway. Secondly, and most importantly, there was a total change in the way the company operated- the positive reporting system so lacking with TT was implemented, training improved and to its credit PO Ferries today has reaped the "reward" of the changes it put in place.
Though I would lay my overdraft on the idea that there will be a new name at costa- with the same management, same procedures and same lack of care and attention.
(though if Clanky is right there might be some shiny new filing cabinets(
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A graphic reconstruction from the black box has been released.
It spent the time since the accident travelling with sideways motion.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16754771
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Hmm, That rock he struck looks like its on the chart to me...
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and if you look at the speed on the top right it goes down from 15kts to 9
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Hmm, That rock he struck looks like its on the chart to me...
Well if it wasn't at the time, it's likely on every map* now...
(*I know it's a chart not a map, but I just like to see the indignant response of everyone telling me so)
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the 17th body has been found aboard the costa concordia :-\
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Well if it wasn't at the time, it's likely on every map* now...
(*I know it's a chart not a map, but I just like to see the indignant response of everyone telling me so)
IT's A CHART, NOT A MAP! :D
We aim to please
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Ouch... :/
http://www.ferrypubs.co.uk/product.asp?strParents=&CAT_ID=&P_ID=530
Brand new book on Costa Cruises, published Jan 2012
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The search for the missing people has been abandoned.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/costa-concordia-search-abandoned-6297459.html
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Apparently the hull is badly deformed under water. It seems it is being supported only in a small number of locations; I'm no marine architect or engineer, but surely this will cause such massive stresses that even if the ship could float, it will be sufficiently weakened to make it a risk.
That and the fact that it might take 10 months to salvage... 10 months sea damage... MV Flushing range 2.
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it probily get towed to some ship scarp yard or choped up there.
i think its the end of that boat
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I would also think it will be scrapped on the spot. Just like the Tirpitz...
http://www.bismarck-class.dk/tirpitz/gallery/themes/gallthemetirscrapping.html
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To be honest i think they'll move it as they want torist back. Just done some bit on torismum in gog they dont like to wake up in the moring to open there curtens to find a ship sunk just out side the port :doh:
not my idea of a holiday anyway :doh:
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I think all expectations of salvaging the ship are now abandoned. I even doubt they will be able to pump out the remaining oil in the wreck. If not, hopefully there is a plan B: removing the oil from the surface..
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No statement on the future of the hull has been given by Smit.
You can review their progress here
http://www.smit.com/
or
http://www.smit.com/sitefactor/page.asp?pageid=1546
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Both Smit and Mammoet (known from salvaging the Russian nuclear submarine Kursk) are in competition for the contract, looks like the Dutch will do it once more!
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Both Smit and Mammoet (known from salvaging the Russian nuclear submarine Kursk) are in competition for the contract, looks like the Dutch will do it once more!
Got some problems which involves water? Call the Dutch ofcoarse! ;D
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Got some problems which involves water? Call the Dutch ofcoarse! ;D
I have a leaking water pipe at work. A bit of a long way for you to come- when I can employ a local Polish plumber instead/.
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According to this Costa Concordia update, 10 companies worldwide have been invited to present plans for the removal of the ship..
http://www.costacruise.com/B2C/EU/Info/concordia_statement.htm
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I've found the video from the bridge after the collision, it does look a bit chaotic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzXTRMIcbSo&feature=player_embedded
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Eight bodies have been located inside the ship, now the death toll has risen to 25.
On the legal side, seven persons (four Concordia officers and three Costa Crociere's managers) have been put under investigation by the judges inquiring the disaster. Commander Schettino's request for provisional freedom has been rejected and he's still at house arrest.
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Reportedly, captain Schettino also had an incident as captain on the Costa Atlantica, when he hit and damaged another cruise ship (the Aida Blu) in the port of Wernemunde in 2010..
He later claimed he was not aware of any speed limits in the port..
How he afterwards managed to be appointed captain of the Costa Concordia, the pride of the Costa fleet..
I have no idea..
http://www.couriermail.com.au/ipad/concordia-captain-had-2010-crash/story-fn6ck55c-1226287913037
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3 More bodies have been found on Costa Concordia. :'(
http://mikeyscruiseblog.com/2012/03/22/3-more-bodies-found-in-costa-concordia-wreck/
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update: two more were found. :-\
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the pumping from the oil in the holds will be done tomorrow, there will be some little bit of oil in the holds but it isn't much so it isn't dangerous for the nature.
btw: the oil is done by Smit Salvage
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The Concordia has been de-fueled.
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Can you believe it?! After almost 3 months since the Costa Concordia struck rocks just off the island of Giligo, she will be refloated and towed to Genoa, Italy. Costa announced this plan the other day, but they have not yet revealed which salvaging company will be in charge of removing the Concordia from its 80 degree position along the coast of Giligo. The Concordia will have to be refloated and have her hull patched up before she can be towed to her suspected destination of Genoa.
Costa has not yet revealed what they will do with the Concordia once she has been righted again. Locals also announced the other day that they are planning to create a permanent memorial to remember all those who perished on that fateful night, January 12th, 2012.
http://mikeyscruiseblog.com/2012/04/02/concodia-to-be-righted-and-refloated/
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I'd imagine the salvage company will be the same one that removed the fuel, which was smit salvage. ALthough there are rumours that titan or mammoet have been VERY interested in the contract.
I still think that she'll be scrapped, I can't see her being put back into service, especially if her machinery spaces are flooded - which they are. Then again, Theres been ships that have been in worse condition and have still been repaired. Theres even been some that have sunk, raised, and put back into service!
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The sad thing about this is that the US news totally forgot about the COncordia. Thank you for keeping me updated :2thumbs:
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It does look like the plan is to refloat the ship. A salvage company has not yet been chosen..
http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16200962
"Costa will narrow down their options to three companies in the next week. A few U.S. salvage firms are in the running, but Netherlands-based Smit maybe be in the lead, as they just finished removing over 2,000 tons of diesel fuel from the capsized liner."
http://www.maritime-executive.com/article/costa-concordia-update-salvage-bid-continues-salvage-operation-confirmed
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The estimated cost of the salvage work is approx €225 million.
Now, I'm no finanical expert, but wouldn't it be cheaper to build a new liner and have the concordia cutup in-situ?
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It would be cheaper to refloat her, qoute from Wikipedia
Cost: €450 million (£372 million, US$570 million)
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Ahh, but the 225 million is just the cost of refloating her, it doesn't include the refit....
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True...
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also the costa concordia has now got a bad name for capsizing.
same thing happend with the sea emprese here in Pembrokeshire.
they renamed her but there was so many people protesting agence her being an oil carrier and she was band to enter pembroke, and she got a restriction zone around pembrokshere due to protest she got moved and so many people didnt want her there, now she in the medaterainion being a sewage ship (yep a sewage ship -ych).
i think she is scrap and i think the costa name is finished now, expessaly after the Elegra power issue.
Though she may be fine after but who would want to go on her!
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Ahh, but the 225 million is just the cost of refloating her, it doesn't include the refit....
The decision on what to do with the hulk will be made by the insurers who will now effectively own it.
They are obliged to remove the wreck from it's present position and it is probably cheaper to refloat it than to have it cut up in place and the pieces removed. As to what will happen after that, it will be sold to the highest bidder, I would imagine that will be a scrap yard somewhere, but it is always possible that someone might see an opportunity to re-fit her and return her to service in some part of the world where the disaster didn't have such a big impact such as Korea which has a massive emerging cruise market.
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There was an ex Viking ferry (Saga?) that was gutted by fire, chopped to deck 1 or 2 and rebuilt a lot cheaper than a new keel laying... that was turned into a cruise ship.
Surely if the whole ship is warped (IF) then it's not possible at ANY price
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Two companies have been chosen for the salvage operation: the US based Titan Salvage and the Italian Microperi.
First underwater ship repairs will be done, afterward airbags will be used to refloat the ship and enable her to be towed away..
http://cruisefever.net/0428-costa-concordia-to-be-floated-to-a-port-in-italy/
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According to Italian state TV channel RAI2, works for Concordia's refloating will begin in the next weeks and are stated to end in February 2013.
After the repair of the gash in the hull, a set of crates would be installed on the left side of the ship; he was initially filled with water to act as ballast, and a platform was builded on the seabed in order to put the hull in right position; then a second set of crates would be installed on the right side; all were filled with air, refloating the ship.
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I wonder if they will use airbags, such as these.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZJzWUxPqUM
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2161954/Raise-Costa-Concordia-Salvage-rig-arrives-wreck-start-year-long-operation-refloat-tow-away-stricken-vessel.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
Titan salvage have now moved the "Titan-Micoperi" into place alongside the concordia to begin salvage work. Its estimated that it could cost up to $300 million dollars to salvage the costa concordia.
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Can also be seen here.
http://www.giglionews.it/2010022440919/webcam/isola-del-giglio/webcam-giglio-porto-panoramica.html