Ship Simulator

English forum => Ship Simulator 2008 => Topic started by: james10 on July 06, 2007, 15:59:28

Title: Reversing the 'Red Eagle' REVISITED - Bottman's help needed
Post by: james10 on July 06, 2007, 15:59:28

Hey,

I can't reverse the 'Red Eagle' I put it in full reverse and it doesnt go anywhere, I would like to be able to drive from both ends. Any ideas?

Cheers,
James

Title: Re: Reversing the 'Red Eagle'
Post by: mflare on July 06, 2007, 17:24:10

I have the same problem...

Title: Re: Reversing the 'Red Eagle'
Post by: Bottman on July 06, 2007, 17:39:50

Which engine controls did you used, the original consols or the overlay controls? The special feature of the VSP propulsion system is, that there is no reverse in the classical meaning! You have to turn the thrust direction of the VSP unit by 180 degree, that means a whole turn of the upper wheel. Look at the display on the consol, there is a white-arrowed indicator.

To be honest, it's not so easy to handle any azimuth driven vessel.. :-\

Hope you will get it!

Title: Re: Reversing the 'Red Eagle'
Post by: markus on July 06, 2007, 17:52:20

You can direct the thrust of the Red Eagle in any direction (360 degrees), but you have to use the steering wheel, not the thrust lever to do it. Set the thrust to full ahead and direct it to 180 degrees using the wheel. It's easier to use the controls on the bridge instead of the overlay controls, because there you can monitor the thrust direction on the display next to the wheel.

Title: Re: Reversing the 'Red Eagle'
Post by: james10 on July 06, 2007, 18:11:40

So, if I am getting you corrected, you can't reverse. Would you mind posting a screenshot of the layout of the wheels, both throttle and steering wheel to reverse. If you can't reverse then how do captains (and me) get it out of a terminal?

Thanks for your help so far,
James

Title: Re: Reversing the 'Red Eagle'
Post by: james10 on July 06, 2007, 18:15:32

Aha! I've figured it out! Thanks very much guys, now I'm VERY happy with the game  ;D

James

Title: Re: Reversing the 'Red Eagle'
Post by: J3nsen on July 07, 2007, 02:15:42

All some not understand that, look at this movie :) Look's he not find it out first! :P haah

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m560Su2dK9Q

Title: Re: Reversing the 'Red Eagle' REVISITED
Post by: james10 on July 07, 2007, 16:05:25

Hello again,

Ok, so I've worked out how to get it to reverse but I now face another problem. STEERING in reverse. I have both the wheels set at 180 degrees, I'm at full throttle near Southampton, I try to turn left with the bottom steering wheel (not sure what the technical term for that is  ;D), and it completly goes out of control swerving left and right, to stop this I had to power down and power up again. I try turning again but with the top wheel and I get the same result.

My question is, how do you steer the 'Red Eagle' whilst reversing?

Cheers,
James

Title: Re: Reversing the 'Red Eagle' REVISITED
Post by: james10 on July 07, 2007, 17:25:42

Just spent twenty minutes experimenting with steering wheel and throttles but I can't seem to steer it in reverse without it swerving everywhere  ??? Anyone got any ideas at all?

James

Title: Re: Reversing the 'Red Eagle' REVISITED
Post by: LucAtC on July 07, 2007, 18:39:02

Perhaps you could try this:
Go in walkthrough mode behind the controls, the Red Eagle being stopped, at a not too great distance of a pier or quay.
Dont use the two throttle wheels, use instead the "popup" controls (sliders?).
Use the two wheels on the desk as directional wheels, .
Throttle at minimum, let the bow thrust at 0, and put the rear to 180.
Then put both throttle to maximum (or at the same revs), your ship will not move much, and play with the throttles so as to go fwd, backwards or stopped by changing the revs.
Then, ship stopped, change the direction with the wheels, beginning with small angles, one wheel at a time, keeping in mind the direction of the thrust is that of the corresponding needle.
With minimum throttle, ship stopped, put the direction of both to 90° (or 270°) and move the ship sideways.
Play with it until you feel acquainted with the wheels and throttles.....   ;D
Quicker written than done... good luck
Luc

Title: Re: Reversing the 'Red Eagle' REVISITED
Post by: james10 on July 07, 2007, 18:53:36

Hi,

Thanks for taking the time to write that out, but what I ment was, I am traveling at 13knots already in a backwards direction, in the middle of the solent, if I try to turn, say, to avoid a ship then it swerves everywhere..

James

Title: Re: Reversing the 'Red Eagle' REVISITED
Post by: LucAtC on July 07, 2007, 20:06:23

Ok, I see what you mean. Indeed, I made some trials from the "forward" steering console, and stayed there.
But the displays on the "rear" steering console are wrongly placed, so that the needles at this console point in the wrong direction. (They were "mirrored", instead of having been "translated" to the rear).
But it is otherwise quite steerable, but it seems best to forget the rear steering console.
Luc

Title: Re: Reversing the 'Red Eagle' REVISITED
Post by: james10 on July 07, 2007, 20:16:19

Ah right. Ok I'll try steering from the front backwards.

Cheers,
James

Title: Re: Reversing the 'Red Eagle' REVISITED
Post by: james10 on July 07, 2007, 22:52:52

Ok, would someone mind doing me a big favour and recording a video of HOW to steer and reverse at the same time, the 'Red Eagle' It would really help me if someone could.

Cheers,
James

Title: Re: Reversing the 'Red Eagle' REVISITED - Bottman's help needed
Post by: james10 on July 08, 2007, 11:09:29

Morning all,

I'm requesting Bottman's help to record a video of the Red Eagle going backwards and how you steer it going backwards so I can see how to do it. I ask Bottman because I know he has recording software and knows how to reverse the boat. Please help!

Cheers,
James

Title: Re: Reversing the 'Red Eagle' REVISITED
Post by: Bottman on July 08, 2007, 11:14:00

Quote from: LucAtC on July 07, 2007, 20:06:23

Ok, I see what you mean. Indeed, I made some trials from the "forward" steering console, and stayed there.
But the displays on the "rear" steering console are wrongly placed, so that the needles at this console point in the wrong direction. (They were "mirrored", instead of having been "translated" to the rear).
But it is otherwise quite steerable, but it seems best to forget the rear steering console.
Luc

That's exactly what I have told the developer of the ship dynamics.. :-[ :-[ :-[

Title: Re: Reversing the 'Red Eagle' REVISITED - Bottman's help needed
Post by: james10 on July 08, 2007, 11:16:46

So is it possible to steer the ship in reverse whilst traveling?

James

Title: Re: Reversing the 'Red Eagle' REVISITED - Bottman's help needed
Post by: [RWP]DJM on July 08, 2007, 11:28:43

Quote from: james10 on July 08, 2007, 11:16:46

So is it possible to steer the ship in reverse whilst traveling?

James

Heh, you think you have problems, I can't steer it at all lol

Ah well, I will learn ;D

Title: Re: Reversing the 'Red Eagle' REVISITED - Bottman's help needed
Post by: LucAtC on July 08, 2007, 13:39:14

Hello,
Having tried in reverse, and although I took into account the wrong positioning of the rear console, it is clear that the manoeuvring of Red Eagle is  >:( NOT at all symmetrical, despite the hull, appendices and VSPs are supposed to be so.
The reactions are (methink ???) similar to a stern with standard rudder, so that you can steer with very small angles, but that when a giration is started,  :-\ there is little you can do to stop it easily.
It needs to be confirmed, and certainly, the Red Eagle needs  ::) to go to a shipyard for repairs, and to be freed from the bugs on her hull.  ;D
Regards,
Luc

Title: Re: Reversing the 'Red Eagle' REVISITED - Bottman's help needed
Post by: Bottman on July 08, 2007, 13:50:27

Hi all!

Just trying to come in contact with the developer of the ship dynamics, but it's weekend  ;)

Hopefully he will improve the insufficient dynamics of that ferry quick. So - it makes no sense to create a video on it, sorry! I really love that vessel and we (german moderator Sturmfahrt  and me) have told him early, that it will be not so easy to create an azimuth driven ferry with realistic behaviours.  :-\
But he knows the physics very well, so we are optimistic to see the RED EAGLE some times with suitable dynamics.

Cheers

Title: Re: Reversing the 'Red Eagle' REVISITED - Bottman's help needed
Post by: james10 on July 08, 2007, 14:03:53

Thanks very much for your help. Hopefully he will be able to at least let us drive it backwards without it swerving everywhere  ;D

James

Title: Re: Reversing the 'Red Eagle' REVISITED - Bottman's help needed
Post by: gunwharf on July 09, 2007, 07:55:49

I had the same problem but I've worked away of managing to steer it efficiently in reverse and can actually complete the crossing from Cowes to Southampton.

Just need to make sure both consol wheels are at 180 degrees and then use the control overlay wheels to steer (I usually do this on walk round mode standing on the bridge wing. You need to make sure both control wheels on the overlay control screen are positioned as 45 degrees in the green. You can then steer by moving each wheel (very slightly) one way only but which will then turn the ship to the correspondent side. i.e moving the right wheel slightly to the left away from 45 degrees will cause the boat to swing right and vice versa.

It takes some practice but you soon get use to it

Title: Re: Reversing the 'Red Eagle' REVISITED - Bottman's help needed
Post by: james10 on July 09, 2007, 08:21:56

Hey,

Thanks for that, I'll try that later this afternoon.

Cheers,
James

Title: Re: Reversing the 'Red Eagle' REVISITED - Bottman's help needed
Post by: captain03 on February 09, 2008, 16:16:07

thanks

Title: Re: Reversing the 'Red Eagle' REVISITED - Bottman's help needed
Post by: mvsmith on February 09, 2008, 17:55:18

Hi Captain03,
You have found a very old topic from back in July.
The following links might help you in maneuvering the Red Eagle:
http://www.shipsim.com/ShipSimForum/index.php/topic,4014.msg51287.html#msg51287 (http://www.shipsim.com/ShipSimForum/index.php/topic,4014.msg51287.html#msg51287)
and
http://www.shipsim.com/ShipSimForum/index.php/topic,2439.msg25640.html#msg25640 (http://www.shipsim.com/ShipSimForum/index.php/topic,2439.msg25640.html#msg25640)

Also, there is a brief explanation in the Mission Editor tutorial PDF, which you can find in FAQ and Announcements > Tutorials.
There is also a lengthy topic on the Voith-Schneider propeller in Small Talk.


Regards,
Marty