Ship Simulator
English forum => Ship Simulator 2008 => General discussions => Topic started by: Wout on January 09, 2008, 12:15:59
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In this topic the tutorial: Howto guide: Using real ship controls in Ship Simulator (http://forum.shipsim.com/index.php/topic,4503) can be discussed. You can also post about your own work in progresses. Good luck!
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where can we get a pedentiometer thing also can it be used with a pedentiometer that has mor than two controls so it can be used for fs?
matt
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where can we get a pedentiometer thing also can it be used with a pedentiometer that has mor than two controls so it can be used for fs?
matt
You can get potentiometers at various electronic parts stores.
About the more then two controls: you can use one potentiometer per control-connection on the print. If you want to use more potentiometers per control, it will use up more inputs on the print.
About fs, I guess it can be used, since it is recognised as a regular joystick.
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So how much can it cost you to make this? What budget do I need to be ready before I start with the hazardous connection of electronic wires and circuits? 8)
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Pff, I made one and it costed €10.
But I the only thing I had to buy where the potmeters.
I think, If you completely build it yourself, it will be around:
wood, wire, other materials: €20
Tools:€20
Elektronics: €50
=€90
But, most people have materials and tools at home, so for them it will only cost €50.
Mine is here:
http://www.freewebs.com/shipsimcontrolunit/buildinglog.htm
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so did u use that BU0836 Controller thingy and how do u know where all the connectors go on it?
oh and can i get the BU0836 Controller anywhere else?im thinking of making one for ss anf fs
and can i make the pedonemeter go so it read forward and backward movment like pushing the stick forward and back on a plane in fs then ill creat somthing to lock the movment for ss
matt
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Sam used something different, he just used the com-port. The BU0836 uses USB. About the pins, did you read the tutorial, what did you not get about it, maybe I can edit it a bit and clarify it.
You can have the potentiometer map to a regular joystick. If you calibrate it right in windows, it would be able to do a regulat X/Y axis.
Pff, I made one and it costed €10.
But I the only thing I had to buy where the potmeters.
I think, If you completely build it yourself, it will be around:
wood, wire, other materials: €20
Tools:€20
Elektronics: €50
=€90
But, most people have materials and tools at home, so for them it will only cost €50.
Mine is here:
http://www.freewebs.com/shipsimcontrolunit/buildinglog.htm
- elektronics would just be around €25, since you only need the BU0836.
- potentiometers only cost a couple of euro's a piece. Usually < 7€
- Just use scrap materials, should be enough.
tools.. well everyone has some basic tools. Guess 30 euro's would do for a simple control.
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in the tutorial i dont think it explains enough about exactly where to put all the wires from the pedometers or i could just be being stupid
matt
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No, it doesnt.
But the manual of the BU... controller explains it all!
It isn't pendometer, it is potentiometer. ;)
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oh ok sorry :-X i get it now
do u know how to make a view hat thing like there is on lots of joysticks?
matt :)
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I just use my mouse as a view hat.
But with four push-release switches it will be possible, I guess.
I think the best is, that you firstly make a simple control unit.
Like mine, without hat switches and stuff like that.
With the BU... controller, I would make:
2 throttles
1 rudder
bowthruster
sternthruster
Some switches
And when you get some experience of that, you could make an other, more compicated controller with some of the hardware from your old controller.
Just do some research, draw the thing and build it! ;)
There are many sites of people who builded their own cockpit, I learned a lot from those sites.
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Surely this project is very interesting, but the electronic part will be the easy one, thanks to these USB controllers. Nevertheless, there is still the question of the control handles.
Sam's project is impressive, but it requires room, skills, time and patience. All these virtues (yes!) are necessary due to the high cost of the potentiometer mechanics.
I bought 5 years ago a Morse control, made of a €10 pot, plus plastic/Alu casing, 4 LEDs at €0.05, one micro pushbutton, reduction gears, at a price of €475 (with VAT)... Vetus, Commander, Rexroth, Kobelt and other ones were as expensive if not much more. If it can be accepted for a ships' control, I think spending as much money for a luxury potientometer is overkill, even a very nice one.
I would greatly appreciate if the author gave an idea of where to find, or how he himself built these controls.
Regards,
Luc
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Hey guys,
There seem to be a ship controller coming out this year. No price as yet, see:
http://www.raildriver.com/products/shipdriver.php
Sounds very interesting! I really hope they will be available in the UK and Europe :)
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Yes, its looks perfect. I will keep a eye on that site.
Regards Jocke
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it looks great but also quite expensive :-\ but worth ceepin an eye on
matt
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it looks great but also quite expensive :-\ but worth ceepin an eye on
matt
Hi Matt,
If the US dollar exchange rate stays the same against the UK Sterling this year then we would be paying around half price.
For example if the ship controller cost $150, we would be paying around £75 for it. I think it's still quite a lot to pay for a controller, but I'm hoping online giants like Amazon or play.com will stock them and sell it cheaper.
Kev
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Surely this project is very interesting, but the electronic part will be the easy one, thanks to these USB controllers. Nevertheless, there is still the question of the control handles.
Sam's project is impressive, but it requires room, skills, time and patience. All these virtues (yes!) are necessary due to the high cost of the potentiometer mechanics.
I bought 5 years ago a Morse control, made of a €10 pot, plus plastic/Alu casing, 4 LEDs at €0.05, one micro pushbutton, reduction gears, at a price of €475 (with VAT)... Vetus, Commander, Rexroth, Kobelt and other ones were as expensive if not much more. If it can be accepted for a ships' control, I think spending as much money for a luxury potientometer is overkill, even a very nice one.
I would greatly appreciate if the author gave an idea of where to find, or how he himself built these controls.
Regards,
Luc
The main problem is that the real shipcontrols are too damn expensive. The ones used in the example are priced over 1000€. These are real controls, which came from Alphatron, a big player in the shipcontrol-industry. I guess what can be tried is "ship-junkyards", if these exist, I have no clue. Otherwise, something like Sam's controller could be made. This can be made, if you have the skills, as nice as you want it to be. I was going to try to make a nice post about making you own controls as well, was just waiting on the OK from Sam to use his post ;).
Hey guys,
There seem to be a ship controller coming out this year. No price as yet, see:
http://www.raildriver.com/products/shipdriver.php
Sounds very interesting! I really hope they will be available in the UK and Europe :)
That thing has been announced for ages, if I am not mistaken. However, that ofcourse is plastic and does not look all that nice. I'd rather have a wooden one. But, when it finally does come out, it would be a nice alternative for people who do not have the time or skills to make something like the tutorial.
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Maybe an idea,of making a very detailed manual(with pictures)about to make this tool.
I've seen that some of you,are realy great to fix this thing together.
Me,as a rookie in this matter dont realy know how to start.
What potentio-meter should i buy,howmany?????
So if you want to do this,start from the very beginning,and think as someone who does not know at all.
Put all the info that is needed.
Regards
Marc
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@Marcstrat
I see you live is Morstel, so you shouldn't travel far for components.
You could buy potentiometers in Merksem and in Antwerp.
But the shop in merksem is the most specialised.
How many you buy depends on how much functions you want to use.
Things like bowthruster, rudder, throttle, ... need potentiometers.
It allso depends of wich controller u buy.
For the BU0836 you need potmeters betwean 1Kohm and 100Kohm.
I don't know which would be the best but I would choose a potmeter between 10 and 90 Kohm.
Make shure it are linear ones.
How many switches u buy allso depends on how much you want to use.
Things like horn, engine start, map, ... need switches.
Make shure u buy push-release buttons.
If you use the BU0836 controller, you allso need a diode for each switch.
Well, I would like to help you, but for me that would be a lot easier in Dutch.
So if you have more questions, PM me.
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I personnally use The Saitek Pro Flight Throttle Quadrant, to control the thrust independantly for two engines. That works perfectly, and the Saitel quadrant isn't that expensive (I already had it for Flight Simulator).
Here's a link :
http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/quad.htm (http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/quad.htm)
for the steering control, I use a saitek X45 throttle command, and the rotary of the X45 throttle for the aft and bow thrusters.
This gives me a full hotas config, perfect for conventionnal ships. But that doesn't work at all for specific ships, like the bugsier tug, ocean star, or red funnel ferry ... I still don't know how to steer those ships, without the keyboard :(
I have the same doubt about the raildriver product : this won't work for this sort of ships, for the same reasons...
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Hi Kaj1/Sam
Will you please give me details of the potentiometers that you have used, manufacturer and part number if possible.
The BU0836 website gives values for the pots from 1 to 100K and suggests if in doubt use 10K. Sam says use 10K to 90K.
Do the ones you are using have a central stop and be turned in both directions to give ahead and astern for the engine movements? Or is it necessary to use 2 pots, one for each of these purposes?
Same thing for steering port or starboard.
Are all the pots you are using the same values for all purposes?
Best regards,
Ken
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Yes, they are all the same values.
The part number and manufacturer really doenst mather.
When you calibrate them, there should be no problem at all.
You most use one potmeter for each purpose.
Just the standard 3-pin LINEAR potmeter will do.
The size and kind of potmeter doesn't matter at all.
As long as you use a correct value.
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After reading the tutorial I decided to have a go myself and build my own controls using real ships equipment.
I took myself off to the nearest yacht chandlery and looked for second hand used controls, I stumbled across a set of volvo penta throttle controls which looked like they had potentiometers (pots) on them (bearing in mind I don't have a clue when it comes to electronics etc) so I tested them on a multimeter as per the tutorial and that confirmed that they were pots.
Fig.1/volvo penta controls
So now I know they are pots I ordered the BU0836 from Leo Bodnars website, as per the tutorial and that came within two days of ordering, so I then proceeded to solder the wires to the supplied pinheaders along with my fingers, I can still smell burning flesh.
Fig.2
This left me with six wires 3 for the port pot and 3 for the starboard pot, now I had to connect the other ends to the pots, luckily I had some small crimp connectors so I put these on the ends of the wires and then connected them to the pots.
Fig.4
Now the moment of truth, connecting the BU0836 to the computer (I used my old laptop for the initial hookup just incase!) Windows recognised it straight away so I went to the properties page in game controls in the control panel but there was nothing at all so after taking it all apart again and checking all the connections I tried again this time there was life but the picture in properties was nothing like in the tutorial I had solid values in the bars and when I moved the throttle lever nothing happened, so I took it all apart once again.
Nothing seemed to work so I contacted Leo Bodnar to ask his advice, he came straight back to me with his thoughts and a possible fix for the problem, which was in the end a wrong connection and my soldering (probably the flesh from my fingers on the terminals) so after a couple more emails I was ready to try again and this time it worked, although the port control lever was around the wrong way, it was a simple case of swapping them around, so I calibrated the controls in windows, started ss08 picked a small boat and away I went, I can't believe how much more control you have over the boats (I've only tried 3 fast boats and the harbour tug) but what a difference.
So steering is next I'll post some pics of that once I get it underway.
I just have to say a big thankyou to Leo bodnar and kaj1 for their help and advice, so if you're like me and have no clue as to electronics don't let that put you off building your own controls with people like them that supply the hardware for the job and great advice, you can't go wrong really so give it a go.
(just watch your fingers when soldering) those little pinheader things get pretty hot!!!!!!!!
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When I read this, I really want to make one. :)
I'm only very bad in electronics, but I think I will try it to make one :)
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Does anyone know where I can get a real second hand control or a cheap new one?
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Hi Carl,
I've never done anything like this before and I have no idea about electronics etc but as I said in my post Leo Bodnar and I'm sure others would be more than willing to offer advice on the subject.
Last night I found an old playstation 1 steering wheel and foot pedals that I had from years ago, so today I will be stripping that down for potentiometers, wire and buttons to use for the steering and bow/stern thrusters, so it doesn't have to be expensive, I'm sure alot of people may have old joysticks and steering wheels at home they don't use anymore so they can dismantle them to use the parts.
The hard part is finding real ship controls they can be expensive but if you live anywhere near a main river or yachting area then you will be able to find someone who sells boat and yacht equipment second hand, most marinas and yacht chandlery's will have a bargin basement of old parts for sale.
Just remember it's the control levers you want, so they look right you can buy potentiometers at any electrical store and then you can adapt the controller to work your potentiometer.
Once I've got all the electronics working I will mount them on a nice piece of wood so I have all the controls in one console, I'll post more pics of my progress and pass on any problems I encounter.
Give it a go!
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Nice unit there pigdog!
I've just started making my own controller too.. details will follow when I finish it. I'm also using the BU0836. A really nice product. I've almost finished the console and I have hooked up my pots allready and tested that. Works like a charm.. Kudos to Leo Bodnar indeed. :)
I'm gonna put on 6 pots and 12 buttons. It'll have 2 throttle levers, 2 rudders and 2 thrusters.
Unfortunatly I don't have easy acces to some second hand real controls, but with a bit of creative thinking, anything's possible. ;D
I'm curious to see how yours will turn out!!
Enjoy building it.... and using it afterwards of course!!
Regards,
Fred
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Thank for your explanation Pigdog. I wil try to find some real ship controls
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Hi Mad_Fred,
Hopefully I will have two throttles, two rudders and bow/stern thrusters, there are a load of buttons on this playstation controller that I would like to use including a hat switch but I'm not sure how to rig up switches yet, I read somewhere you would need diodes (never seen one and wouldn't have a clue how they work) if you know anything about connecting buttons and hat switches I'd be most interested.
The thing that has struck me is how enjoyable it is to get these things to work (apart from soldering my fingers of course) I'm like a bull in a china shop if it stays still long enough I'm taking it apart to rob bits from it.
I've got a washing machine and a dishwasher in the kitchen hhhhmmmm? ;D
cheers
Pigdog
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;D
cannibalising other controllers is usually pretty effective to get nice components. As long as you (for the pots) have the right ones, it'll work.
I'm no expert either, but I too enjoy the soldering and making it all tick very enjoyable. My fingers are still intact though. But I use one of those "third hand" type things. (don't know what to call them.. one of those little stands with the crocodile clamps on it to hold it for you) ;D
I know that you can hook up 8 pots and 12 buttons without any diodes. The BU0386 website has 2 pictures as to how it can be hooked up.
You can have 32 buttons plus a hat switch when you use diodes, and it then has to be wired up way more complex.
But if 12 buttons suffice, then it's easy. You just hook up one wire to each of the pins from the row of 6 and column of 6 on the BU0836 to one of the pins of each button.
Then hook one wire up to one of the ground pins from one of the analog inputs (on the BU00836).
And run that wire to one of the free pins of one of the buttons.
Then from that same pin, go to the next button and attach it to that free pin. And the same with all the buttons untill you complete the circuit.
I can't explain the diode thing, that schedule is too complex.. but it's here:
http://leobodnar.com/products/BU0836/
You'll see the one I mentioned too.. :)
I hope all that makes sense.. ::)
Regards,
Fred
PS: Special thanks to Sandokan for explaining this to me when I wondered how to wire it up! ;D
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;D
cannibalising other controllers is usually pretty effective to get nice components. As long as you (for the pots) have the right ones, it'll work.
I'm no expert either, but I too enjoy the soldering and making it all tick very enjoyable. My fingers are still intact though. But I use one of those "third hand" type things. (don't know what to call them.. one of those little stands with the crocodile clamps on it to hold it for you) ;D
I know that you can hook up 8 pots and 12 buttons without any diodes. The BU0386 website has 2 pictures as to how it can be hooked up.
You can have 32 buttons plus a hat switch when you use diodes, and it then has to be wired up way more complex.
But if 12 buttons suffice, then it's easy. You just hook up one wire to each of the pins from the row of 6 and column of 6 on the BU0836 to one of the pins of each button.
Then hook one wire up to one of the ground pins from one of the analog inputs (on the BU00836).
And run that wire to one of the free pins of one of the buttons.
Then from that same pin, go to the next button and attach it to that free pin. And the same with all the buttons untill you complete the circuit.
I can't explain the diode thing, that schedule is too complex.. but it's here:
http://leobodnar.com/products/BU0836/
You'll see the one I mentioned too.. :)
I hope all that makes sense.. ::)
Regards,
Fred
PS: Special thanks to Sandokan for explaining this to me when I wondered how to wire it up! ;D
You could hook up more then 12 buttons without diodes as well, but that only works if you have < 3 buttons activated at the same time (which should be more than enough in SS).
It really isn't hard to do the buttons , which is why I did not cover it in the tutorial. All it is is connecting the dots, like I did as a 5 year old with a crayon ;D Only know I do it with wire and a soldering kit ;). Just follow the schema and you'll be allright.
@pigdog, glad to see you got it working all right. I didn't realise what volvo penta controls where when you PM'ed me, but they sure look nice :D
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Wow i might start building these and selling them on ebay :P
for now i will stick to my G25..... but im ordering one of these babys to build myself another project i have in mind! :)
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The G25 is nice, but apart from the steering wheel it doesn't really offer anything helpfull for most of the ships..
I tried it, but I actually had more control over the ships with a 5 Euro joypad than with the G-25.
But building one from scratch to do exacltly what you want it to do or have, is a really nice experience, I msut say. And I only just begun building it.. ;D
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I dunno.... the 6 shift gear stick offers alot of control, just not gradual throttle increase. im looking into purchasing some ready made pots (real ship ones). as im too lazy to build it all haha! good luck with the build
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I don't see the interest in building a throttle quadrant !
the Saitek quadrant is really great, and is really not very expensive ... you can find it at about 40 ou 50 euros !
I'm sure if you buy a real ship control it's far more expensive ... !
http://www.saitekusa.com/usa/prod/quad.htm (http://www.saitekusa.com/usa/prod/quad.htm)
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Hi,
Here is the second part of my build.
After testing the throttles and finding they worked I headed back to the yacht chandlery to look for thruster and steering controls.
After searching for hours I couldn't find any dedicated steering controls but did find some real thruster controls Fig.1
Feeling disheartened at not finding anything to steer my ship with and not knowing if the thruster controls would work I turned to the playstation controls that I had started to rob bits from and used a bit of creativity to construct my steering controls Fig.2
I used the face plate from the playstation as a template to cut out another one to mount the controls on, I used two sets of plastic pipe joint from toilet plumbing I had lying in my toolbox to make a collar for the controls to sit in, then I realised that I needed some steering handles or wheels, so I used two speaker mounting brackets that were also lying at the bottom of the toolbox as well as a load of washers and nuts to get the correct amount of resistance for the steering Fig.3
I then marked out and mounted the controls to a piece of wood and then began the mammoth task of getting all the wires in the right place and the right length (measure twice cut once, I should have listened to my own advice)
After another email to Leo Bodnar to check on the suitability of the switches for the thrusters they could be mounted too this gave me engines, two steering controls and two thruster controls all working and mounted on my piece of wood. Fig.4
I was planning on using the rest of the wood to make a box to house it all in but I am no carpenter, it was at this point I looked at my toolbox and thought why don't I use that, eureka! a ready made box, so out came the tools all over the floor and after a little rethink I moved the thruster controls so they were side by side, cut the end off the wood and she fitted perfectly into the old toobox (the lid even closes) yes I even suprised myself with my genius or lazyness whichever way you look at it Fig.5
I then mounted the BU0836 inside the box cut a hole in the back so I can attatch the usb lead plugged it all in and hey presto! it all worked fine.
All thats left to do now is tidy it up a bit and I need to rethink the brackets for the left steering control, somehow it worked loose and keeps turning without moving the pot so a little more work to do on it and maybe a coat of paint and some rudder angle indicators just to finish it off but I'm really pleased with it.
The one downside is you have to have precision steering disabled when your in multiplayer to enable the controls to work correctly and this in turn means whenever you text talk to another player your engines and steering shut down whilst you type as soon as you click out of the text box it springs to life again, I don't suppose anyone knows away around this do they?
I've tried Teamspeak but not that many people seem to use it.
I will post some more pics when it's all complete but I've really enjoyed doing this little project and now I can enjoy it in the sim.
Pigdog ;D
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Looks very nice ;D
like the steering to :)
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Wow that's fantastic. I'm actually quite jealous ;D
Can have some serious fun with that ;)
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Thanks guys,
There's still a little work to do as I said but it's pretty much there really, you notice the difference when you control Red Jet 4 (once you've figured out which steering goes with which engine) she does exactly what you want her to do even sideways movement because you've got more control for some reason.
The thruster controls are good but they are self centering so it's 0% - 100% port or starboard nothing in between as they are switches as opposed to pots but you can always use the onscreen controls to set the thrust for longer periods.
I have to admit I am most pleased with the steering, just a couple of bits of plastic plumbing and the speaker wall mountings work a treat.
It's just a shame you can't use them from the bridge wing in walkthrough mode, you have to switch to one of the outside views and when you text talk in MP you loose all your engines when you type but it's still good fun.
Cheers
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Thanks guys,
There's still a little work to do as I said but it's pretty much there really, you notice the difference when you control Red Jet 4 (once you've figured out which steering goes with which engine) she does exactly what you want her to do even sideways movement because you've got more control for some reason.
The thruster controls are good but they are self centering so it's 0% - 100% port or starboard nothing in between as they are switches as opposed to pots but you can always use the onscreen controls to set the thrust for longer periods.
I have to admit I am most pleased with the steering, just a couple of bits of plastic plumbing and the speaker wall mountings work a treat.
It's just a shame you can't use them from the bridge wing in walkthrough mode, you have to switch to one of the outside views and when you text talk in MP you loose all your engines when you type but it's still good fun.
Cheers
Yeah it does look great ;D
I also think that when typing in MP you should still be able to control your ship. You don't have a cursor in the text boxes so why can't we use the arrow keys?? :)
Anyway, have fun with that, looks like a decent controller. We also have that type of bow thruster on our 42ft boat. Self centering ones ;)
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Hi there,
Since I read this thread I am thinking of building my own controller just like you guys (they look really awesome! 8)). However I looked on the internet for the gas throttle and saw that there are all different sorts of gas throttles (electrical, hydraulical etc.). I thought to read in Pigdogs post that you can adapt any controller to work with potentiometers. If I understood well the type of gas throttle doesn't matter as long as you convert it to work with a potentiometer. Is that right and how hard to do is it?
Regards,
thegodon
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Hi thegodon,
You could use any throttle controls but you would have to make sure that you can connect potentiometers to them by means of gears or small wheels I think it would be vey difficult to do it though and you would have to look at how to mount the potentiometers to the unit without them moving around.
Inside the throttle unit in my pictures it has a series of small plastic gears that reduce the turning action of the throttle controller to the potentiometer (this would be the hard part to recreate) if you had to alter a hydraulic or cable operated throttle unit.
I would say keep an eye out for throttle controls with potentiometer (electrical type, as they will be connected to an engine management system on a real boat) it will make life a lot easier and look more tidy, try ebay as well thats where I found the tech sheet for my controller.
http://www.marinepartseurope.com/en/volvo-penta-explodedview-7740680-27-7461.aspx
Keep looking and good luck with your build.
Pigdog
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Hi,
Thanks for your reply, it's a great help to me. I've looked a bit on ebay and found this control box: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-SUZUKI-DELUXE-DUAL-ENGINE-BINNACLE-CONTROL-BOX_W0QQitemZ130206749499QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item130206749499 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-SUZUKI-DELUXE-DUAL-ENGINE-BINNACLE-CONTROL-BOX_W0QQitemZ130206749499QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item130206749499) I think this is an electrical one, however I'm not sure because it's hard to find info about these thing on the internet i guess. But it looks as an electrical one to me :-\. Could you maybe help me to determine this is an electrical control box or not?
Thanks alot!
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I would e-mail the seller and ask them to check to see if it has potentiometers before buying and maybe ask them to send you some extra photos of the workings inside, that would give you more of a clue.
If they send you some photos of the inside of the controls, if your still not sure post them on here and I'm sure one of us that have built controls may be able to help you.
pigdog
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Hello,
There is an interesting offer on eBay in the USA:
Glendinnings Twin Engine Throttle Controls (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Glendinnings-Twin-Engine-Throttle-Controls-Never-Used_W0QQitemZ280213388684QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item280213388684)
Probably adequate... and hmm preferably not too many bids, to keep them at a reasonable level.
Regards,
Luc
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Luc.
Shipping is within USA only!
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Finding a used control, buying a new one, building one.... none of these options seem to be working out for me.
The electronic portion of the setup looks like it would be easy as cake, but finding/building the controls seems to be impossible to me.
(I'm too much of a computer nerd to know any carpentry skills :-\ )
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hello I wounder if I can by somting like this, dou you now sombody hwo seles somting like this?t
bekaus if I douse make this it wil not bea good hehe
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hello I wounder if I can by somting like this, dou you now sombody hwo seles somting like this?t
bekaus if I douse make this it wil not bea good hehe
RailDriver is about to release such a controller, which has been discussed here for example :
http://www.shipsim.com/ShipSimForum/index.php/topic,8942.0.html (http://www.shipsim.com/ShipSimForum/index.php/topic,8942.0.html)
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hehe due you now abote a private pesson hwo seles this things?
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This is all great on how to build one...Any one want to sell one????.
there is some great work coming out of this. i would be happy to pay some one to do thatwork for me.
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My problem is that I understand How to do it I don't understand where you buy little parts like the trottle knobs and light housings. :-\
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One of my frends showed this game to me and I'm seriously considering of buying it. It's a fun game and I like most aspects of it. One thing that would convise me to buy it, would be the possibility to build a control for azimuh (or something like that) trust tug boat...
I've been searching the possibilities to build such controller, and my plan is to build something like the game already has. The controller would rotate about it's vertical axis and would also have throtle leaver on it, like in the game. One vertical potentiometer in the bottom and one horizontal above the turning table.
My only consern is, how can I config the Joystick Controller BU0836 to turn the steering 180 decrees in each direction... I recon that the stearing would need to turn from forward motion (turst down) to bouth direction 180 decrees. More turn might be hard to config and wire.
I think that the throtle control is quote straight fordward. I will post some pics about the 3D-model I'm doing to test the construction. Material will be wood, but if it works, I'm considering of making metal ones. If I get to the metal stage, I will make more than my needs, since there might be some quote for these...
What I would like is, that someone with some kind of "real control" to test how the stearing works with the tug boat. Can he/she config it so, that it's possible to turn the azimuh 360 decrees.
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Hello ekto, and welcome to the forum!
If you calibrate the controller (or really, the BU0836), it will take the total range of the potentiometer as the range for the left and right movement. So it will adapt to what you are sailing and put that range to your controllers range, really, because of the calibration. So you don't need to be able to turn it as far as the real thing, to get it to go to 100% ingame. But it would be nice to have it just like the real thing indeed.
So all you then really need is a potentiometer that can turn 180 degrees in both directions, or indeed one that can rotate 360 degrees in total. Of course you cannot keep on turning them rotation after rotation, so like 720, 1080, like the real thing has (AFAIK), but at least you can use the full range with a realistic angle on your controller. This should work.
But if you use the more common pots with 3/4 of travel, as I am doing with a controller that I am building, you should also be able to use the full range ingame aswell, but it will just amplify your input so that the azimuth unit will reach 180 degrees when you have just turned the pot to it's full 130 (or so) degrees. At least that's what I'd guess would be true for the Bugsier2 aswell, I only tested mine with the ocean star, which is different, but that worked good too.
But If you have two of those pots that can turn through the full 360 degrees, then those can take care of the rotation of the units, whilst your throttle ones could be done by those common ones that only have the 260 degrees of rotation or what is it.. I'm not sure on that value, but about 3/4 rotation indeed.
I hope that made a bit of sense. :)
Regards,
Fred
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Thanks. That is what I needed to know.
Here are some pics of my design. I have not yet figured how to wire the throtle, so that there would not be a 10cm wire hanging out ;D But the basics are done:
(http://opel.desteem.org/albums/userpics/10001/normal_ohjain1.jpg)
(http://opel.desteem.org/albums/userpics/10001/normal_ohjain.jpg)
(http://opel.desteem.org/albums/userpics/10001/normal_ohjain2.jpg)
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Hi Fred.
Just a thought, but if you are using it as a variable resistor (i.e. connecting two wires), rather than a potentiometer (connecting three wires), it would be possible to use a ten-turn pot of ten times the required value to achieve the same result. Probably not possible if using it as a potentiometer, though.
If it's worth anything...
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Thats Neat Ekto what program is that? ???
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Hello,
There is also the solution of using rotating Sensofoil (polyester pot to be glued), or 360° rotating potentiometers specific for the application (Megatron, for instance), so that you have a no-end rotation, with 360° encoding of the 0 to +5V needed for the BU0836. I am sure RS Components or Conrad or any distributor has them in his catalog?
Regards,
Luc
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I red about the sensofoil and I did not get how to use it in this solution. I think I'l use potentiometers. I actually found a potentiometer that is free turning 360 decrees. It's mentioned in the BU0836 information page. Cost is something like £10...
Lets say, that when the potentiometer is at 0 decrees, it gives a low signal. and when it's at 359, it gives a high signal. When you turn it over 359, it goes 0 decrees and the signal goes low again? So basicly it should be possible to rotate it like in real life, continesly?
I'm still sturgling how to wire the throtle.
One possibility is to make some space between the bottom plate and the turning table, but this makes the fastening of the rotaty potentiometer harder...
Second possibility is to make metal rings to the bottom plate and then pusher to the rotary table, but this is quote complex to make and would have interferences. Does anyone know a place that sells these aplications?
Third option is to make the wireing outside using curled telefone wire. This would be the easyest, but less atractive...
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I remodelled the controller using the real size of the potentiometer mentioned earlyer. I also simplyfied the design so I can now order precut parts, exept some aspects of the turning table. I'm also changing the material to polycarbonite, since it's the same weight, but can handle the stress. I also added two metal rings between turning table and the stand to decrees friction. The height of the controller is 170 mm and the diameter is 100 mm, so it's quote small.
(http://opel.desteem.org/albums/userpics/10001/normal_ohjain3.jpg) (http://opel.desteem.org/albums/userpics/10001/normal_ohjain4.jpg)
Trothle is going to get the telefone wire, since everyting else might be to complicated. I'm still looking to raplace the throtle lever with someting already made. There will be two of these, and a connection box. I think I'l start the build next week.
I'f someone sea's something wrong here, now is the time to mention about it.
Thats Neat Ekto what program is that? ???
The program is KeyCreator:
http://www.kubotekusa.com/
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hi all,
Good to see more people making their own controllers.
I tried making an azimuth controller for use with the B2 but the main problem I found was that the way azimuth controls have been modeled in the game especially for the B2 it won't allow you to turn the 360 or 180 deg required, I haven't tried it recently so unless the azimuth controls have been modified it may be impossible to acheive.
Like I say I've not been on for a while I haven't even turned SS08 on for the past 2 months so I may be missing something but this is what hampered my azimuth build last time.
Cheers
PS: I should also say that to get the controls to turn 180 deg you need precission steering enabled but as soon as you move your control stick from the zero position it will continue to rotate the pod in the game 360 deg until you return it to zero this was my main problem if this has been fixed then I'm going to restart my project.
Pigdog
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PS: I should also say that to get the controls to turn 180 deg you need precission steering enabled but as soon as you move your control stick from the zero position it will continue to rotate the pod in the game 360 deg until you return it to zero this was my main problem if this has been fixed then I'm going to restart my project.
Hi Pigdog.
I don't think that's a bug. That's the outcome of using sticky controls and is the way in which that option is supposed to work. You need to use the proportional control method (i.e. prcision set to off), so that the position of your level is mimiced by the pod, thruster or whatever ship control it is linked to. If you use any of the multi-yoke game pads, that's exactly what happens.
Or do I misunderstand what you're syaing?
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Hi,
No it's not a bug but I do think that pod movement could have been implimented much better so it works similar to the voith of the Red Eagle for instance, ie: a more fluid motion for turning the pod 180deg.
With precission steering off you can only acheive a certain amount of port or stbd steering control and then your astern motion (which mimics turning the pod 180deg) puts your steering controls in the wrong position.
I have tried a 360deg pot and experienced the same problems although my patience ran out and I haven't picked it up since but I may try again soon time permitting.
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I think that the pods are very different, mechanically. There was an article in Scientific American recently which gave some details, and there ar efurthe rdetails on Pieter Boelen's 84 page report about the Zuiderdam, available on the Creators Forum.
The azipods seem to be immense in comparison with the mechanisms on vessels such as Red Jet, Bugsier2 and Red Eagle, so I guess they would be much more sluggish to turn. I've always found al of them to turn smoothly (is that what you meant by "fluidly"?) on my system.
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The program is KeyCreator:
http://www.kubotekusa.com/
Hmmmm...
Neat, could use that for my model railroad. ;)
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Hi Terry,
No I mean in game when not in precission steering you should have the ability to turn the pods 180 or 360 deg that would enable players using joysticks or controllers they have built to turn the the pods fully round as you can with the red eagles controls.
Sorry about any confusion, I'm not explaining myself vey well but I have tried to build and configure an azimuth controller to work with the B2 and ocean star but the only time it works or moves as it does in the real world is when you are in precission steering but then you have the problem as I mentioned before as soon as you move your control stick your pods contonue to turn and your engines go full ahead.
When not in precission steering your pods only turn let's say 30deg port or stbd but then you need put your engines astern as soon as you do your pods reverse but in the wrong position.
Having the ability to turn precission steering and engines on and off seperately from each other may go someway to resolve this for people using joysticks or home built controllers.
Pigdog
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I think you should be able to turn it round and round with free turning potentiometer. This is cause the Ohm value should drop back to start after one revolution. So it's like if you would rotate the controller back to start in non 360 pot.
I have been designing the controller for few days, and now I have a design that does rotate freely. I found this thing called "Slip Ring". http://www.polysci.com/docs/SRA-73683.pdf
With this thing I can get the throtle wires from the rotary table, to the stationary base. Here is the new design:
(http://opel.desteem.org/albums/userpics/10001/normal_ohjain5.jpg) (http://opel.desteem.org/albums/userpics/10001/normal_ohjain6.jpg) (http://opel.desteem.org/albums/userpics/10001/normal_ohjain7.jpg)
This looks kind of complex but all the parts are pretty simple. If I'm able to buy the slip ring, I might build the new one, but if not, I'l make the previous...
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Here's a litle update about the procress.
I've ordered some hardware (pots and the game controller) and modelled yet another controller. The current situation seems good regarding the controller. The problem is with the game. I have changed notes with a guy who allready has the pots and stuff, and he reports the same what we have seen in this topic. The game doesn't support 360 decree controller.
I'm hoping that someone from the development team would comment about the problem, and when it's going to be solved. When the problem is solved, I can promise that you get one new customer ;)
The newest design is made so that,
- it can rotate freely 360 decrees unlimited times
- it's very easy to made
- it's inexpensive
My guess for the price is 60 - 80 euros, including the electronics. almoust every part is made from pipes or cylinders. You can order right lengt and diameter peaces from any polycarbonite dealer. All you need to do is drill holes. There is only one 22mm hole that needs a flat bottom, but that can be done differently, if there is no change of getting it done.
There is one part in the controller that need's to be build and tested. If it works, then the whole project rests in the shoulders of the game interface guys. The part is a home-made slip ring. It's made of two different sizes pipes, three ball bearings and O-rings ;D The idea came when I stumbled upon a one article on the web.
(http://opel.desteem.org/albums/userpics/10001/slip_ring_2.jpg)(http://opel.desteem.org/albums/userpics/10001/slip_ring_1.jpg)
Cause ball bearings are metal, they conduct electricity. They have a hole in the center and the inner part can rotate when the outter doesn't. This enables them to work like slip rings. The only thing is the noise it might generate to the signal. After testing we will know.
The cheapest slip ring, with a hole, was something like 100 eur per peace. The one that I used in the last design, turn out to cost 600 euros per peace ::)
Here is some pics of the new controller:
(http://opel.desteem.org/albums/userpics/10001/sauvaohjain_1.jpg)
(http://opel.desteem.org/albums/userpics/10001/sauvaohjain_2.jpg)
(http://opel.desteem.org/albums/userpics/10001/sauvaohjain_3.jpg)
The total height is ~150mm including the 60mm stick. Diameters is 100mm.
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I don't see the interest in building a throttle quadrant !
the Saitek quadrant is really great, and is really not very expensive ... you can find it at about 40 ou 50 euros !
I'm sure if you buy a real ship control it's far more expensive ... !
http://www.saitekusa.com/usa/prod/quad.htm (http://www.saitekusa.com/usa/prod/quad.htm)
Ive been looking how does it work with SS08... does it work ok in reverse and everything??
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hi all,
You are right ekto 360 deg controls will not work in the game, I tried to explain this months ago here:
http://www.shipsim.com/ShipSimForum/index.php/topic,6614.0.html
and a very heated debate about it here:
http://www.shipsim.com/ShipSimForum/index.php/topic,6981.0.html
Have a read through these they go someway into explaining the problems that some people experienced when NH was released regarding pod drivern vessels.
If you had the ability to turn the pod around 360deg using any button, joystick or controller when not in precission steering that would solve the problem.
Azimuth arcade mode is just a waste of time as far as I'm concerned.
pigdog
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Thanks Pig Dog for the info.
I have not yet recieved the electronics, but when I do, I'l test it. I'm going to set it up so, that one 360 pot controlls the stearing, and another pot for the thrust. My frend told me that there is a boat named red eagle that this might work. If it works there, but not in the bugsier, the case is clear. It's in te game...
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Hi ekto,
Yes in therory if the 360 pot works with the Red Eagle's steering wheel then we know it is not an impossible thing to fix, I'm pretty sure it will work, but it may not turn continuiously 360deg, but then on a real pod driven vessel you would not spin your pods 360 anyway, the most movement you would have in one full movement is about 180deg thats full ahead direction to full astern, a pretty severe manouvre.
In normal operation you would go from 0deg (midships) - 90deg (both pods facing inwards) to bring the vessel to stop and then adjust for manouvering or turn to the 180deg to go astern.
At the moment none of the steering options in the game for pod vessels allow us to do that with 360 pots, but if we can get a similar steering mode like the red eagles then that would fix it.
pigdog
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Hello Ekto,
To get around the problem of the sliprings, could it not be possible to keep the "throttle" potentiometer in the fixed part, with its axis horizontal, and to rotate it by means of a slider going through the axis of the turntable? The angle being less than 180 deg, no need of rack and pinion, just a rod/crank at the handle side, and the same at the potentiometer side.
No hole can be made through the axis of the direction 360° potentiometer, but this pot could be offset using gears with hollow shafts.
Just guesses, of course,
Regards,
Luc
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Hello Ekto,
To get around the problem of the sliprings, could it not be possible to keep the "throttle" potentiometer in the fixed part, with its axis horizontal, and to rotate it by means of a slider going through the axis of the turntable? The angle being less than 180 deg, no need of rack and pinion, just a rod/crank at the handle side, and the same at the potentiometer side.
No hole can be made through the axis of the direction 360° potentiometer, but this pot could be offset using gears with hollow shafts.
Just guesses, of course,
Regards,
Luc
Thanks for the idea, I have look. I have also considered of using HAL-sensor for the rotating sensor, cause it can be off center...
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The electonics has arrived :o
I was stunned when I noticed how small the pot really is. Here is a pic of it:
(http://opel.desteem.org/albums/userpics/10001/normal_19082008302s.jpg)
In a 19" computer screen it looks a alot bigger. Next few days I'l be doing testing including the ball bearing test. Wish me luck ;D
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Good luck!
I've been watching this with interest.
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Good luck!
I've been watching this with interest.
So have I, with GREAT interest, although I am sure I could never build one!!
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Hi all,
Ok so My new 360 pots turned up today and here is my build plan.
I have two nice plastic housings to use for the main body (actually they are two chewing gum containers but with a coat of black paint will look the part)
The plan is to mount the 360 pots on the underside of these and attatch them to a small box (one for each unit) and these will have either suction cups underneath or I have two plastic table clamps off an old steering wheel I can use to secure them, these bases will also house the BU836 and all the wires etc.
I have placed a normal pot out through one side to which I will attatch some form of handle for the throttle, I've not found anything yet, but I'm worried that it may be too easy to move and with the weight of a handle on it, it might keep falling forward, I need to find a way of making more physical resistance for this pot so that it won't move too freely.
Here's a question for ekto, how will you attatch the neck of the 360 pot as it's very smooth and only has a very fine slit in the end any idea's? I was thinking of tapping it to put a thread on it then I can attatch the controller with two bolts.
More pictures and an update to follow.
Pigdog
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Okey, so basicly the leaver can be any form you like. Just make shure that is't flat from the side that is facing the base. Make the 6.3mm hole to the leaver. Then glue the leaver to the pot and place a 5 - 10mm thick rubber "washer" between the leaver and the base. Push the leaver against the base until the glue has dried up. Now you should have a lot of friction between those two parts.
You can also make a leaver so, that the gravitational center is lined with the hole. This way you need less friction...
P.S. If you are making it from one material, send me a drawing of it, so I can calculate the best position for the hole.
Edit: I now red your post again and realized that you ware not talking about the leaver ;D Anyway, the pot saft is 6.35mm so making a 6.3 hole already adds friction. If you add glue, it should be enough. This is how I'm going to do mine...
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Okey, the testing is done and...
IT WORKS :)
There was a very small fibration in the signal, but not when there was no movement. So it doesn't matter, cause you are changing the direction anyway, so you will not notice the fibration. I will confirm this after I have build the slip ring. This test was done so that I used my hands to keep the wires on the ball bearing..
Some pics:
(http://opel.desteem.org/albums/userpics/10001/normal_23082008314.jpg)
Pre-soldered wire and pin.
(http://opel.desteem.org/albums/userpics/10001/normal_23082008317.jpg)
Soldering done
(http://opel.desteem.org/albums/userpics/10001/normal_23082008320.jpg)
The black thing is a rubber pipe that shrinks when heated
(http://opel.desteem.org/albums/userpics/10001/normal_23082008327.jpg)
Soldering the pot. I had some trouble with this, but then I got the hang of it. You need to get a drop of tin in the solder, then place the solder on top of the pin, and feed some tin on the midle part of the pin, not to the top. Let it cool. Then place the wire (pre-soldered) next to the pin and place the solder so, that it touches the top of the pin and the wire at the same time.
(http://opel.desteem.org/albums/userpics/10001/normal_23082008328.jpg)
Then you can add the shrink tube
(http://opel.desteem.org/albums/userpics/10001/normal_23082008329.jpg)
I added some tape to the wires, so that the weight of them, doesn't bend the pins. There is also tape in the part that goes in yo the chip. In the final wireing, I'm using much lighter wire.
(http://opel.desteem.org/albums/userpics/10001/normal_23082008331.jpg)
Ball Bearing test starting.
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Hi guys. I know I posted this before, but it'd be great if in a future update, there was an option to separate throttle control from directional control for azimuth boats, when using a Joystick. After reading this topic, it'd make this process a whole lot easier, and it'd make me (and possibly a few more), fall in love with the game even more.
Here's my diagram from a couple of months ago.
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Here is a link to a topic that is for azimuth control development:
http://www.shipsim.com/ShipSimForum/index.php/topic,9839.0.html
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i wish i was smart enough to make my own controller but im not the best with controllers
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When I get my controllers done, there will be very good documentation how to make one. What stuff you need, drawings that you can provide to the plastic dealer, drawings for marking where to drill, soldering info, etc...
I'm fairly shure that some people will follow those and sucsesfully build their controllers...
Current situation of the project is that when I get back home from this work trip, I will make a prototype of the slip ring, so that I can confirm it works. After that I will make the final design and order the plastics. Then I only need to drill holes, do some soldering and it's done.
At this point, I know that I can control the red eagle with it, but in the future, if the devs make a new controlling mode, bugsier and the cruiser can be also be used. And why not other ship also...
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Nice work ekto,
Ok so I've made some progress with mine also, I have only really built one of them for now just to ensure I get everything right.
I gave both units a coat of black paint just to harden the plastic a little fig:1
I've used the Bosch pots from my first build for the new azimuth throttle unit as they are much more reliable and turn a shorter distance than standard pots.fig: 2
I then mounted the pot inside my azimuth unit in the picture you can see it held in place by a large nail thats temporary until i get some more long bolts.
I then used a nylon bolt and shaped the end to fit the inside of the Bosch pot and added a simple stainless steel bracket for now to act as a throttle handle. fig: 3
I've added a large rubber washer inside the unit to attatch the 360 pot to the base, this is a nice tight fit on the shaft of the pot and with a little glue on it should hold nicely. fig:4
For now I have fixed the 360 pot onto a plastic base for testing purpose's I still have to find two box type bases for my units to house the wiring and the BU0836 fig:5
My next challenge after finding the base units is how to feed the throttle wires out of the throttle unit into the base without them getting tangled up when I rotate the unit, I think I will have to have enough slack wire to complete a whole 360 degree turn and just remember not to turn it a second 360 degrees.
I'm off to start the soldering process now to attatch the wires.
More pics in the next update.
pigdog
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Looks nice :)
You could still make a slip ring for you design. Just get a ball bearing that has inner diameter ~26mm. Then a plastic tube that has the outter diameter of ~26mm and inner diameter of 22mm. Then stick the tube over the pot that is on the bottom of your design. Add 3 pcs of bearings over the tube, then slide an another tube that fit's over the bearings. Then you can feed the throtlle wires trough the outter tube, and then get them out from the inner tube. The inner tube must be attached to sometihng starionary from the other end, so that the rotary pot can get the rotary information.
If this sound something you want to do, I can design the slip ring for you.
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I made the first prototype and it didn't work :'( There was too much interference. After the test, I tested the pot so I could confirm that it hasn't broken, it has not, so the prototype fails...
(http://opel.desteem.org/albums/userpics/10001/normal_28082008337.jpg)
Here is a picture of the inner part. The ball bearings is pushed over a wires end. There is small holes beneath the ball bearings.
(http://opel.desteem.org/albums/userpics/10001/normal_28082008338.jpg)
Different angle
(http://opel.desteem.org/albums/userpics/10001/normal_28082008339.jpg)
In this prototype, the wires are just pushed between the pipe and ball bearing.
(http://opel.desteem.org/albums/userpics/10001/normal_28082008340.jpg)
The rotary pot goes in the other end. When you turn the black pipe from the free end, the wires and the pot turn. The information travels through the bearings to the stationary outter pipe.
(http://opel.desteem.org/albums/userpics/10001/normal_28082008342.jpg)
The test is starting.
So the next step is to build another prototype with plastic pipe, like in the original design, rather than those rubber ones. I think I can test that one later next week. But there is no horry, since the game is not yet ready for the control. It's a good thing, cause I don't feel so desperate with this ;D
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Have been following this thread with a great deal of interest, and decided to have a go at my own set of controls.
I'm starting off with a simple double-engine throttle control. Then I hope to add Bow and Aft Thruster controls and a Rudder control at some point in the future.
I spend the weekend designing the throttle control in TurboCAD Deluxe, and then spent most of today starting construction.
Here is where I have got to...
(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj273/davepusey/Ship%20Sim/Controller/ss.jpg)
(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj273/davepusey/Ship%20Sim/Controller/DSC02969.jpg)
In the next image, the bracket at the top of the picture doesn't look straight. That is intentional to compenstate for some skew on the potentiomer...
(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj273/davepusey/Ship%20Sim/Controller/DSC02970.jpg)
(http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj273/davepusey/Ship%20Sim/Controller/DSC02971.jpg)
It is still quite rough at the moment. The wood is 9mm thick MDF, that I have left over from my UPS enclosure project.
The brass uprights their handles fitted, and also need cleaning.
The potentiometers need wiring up, once the BU0836 arrives.
And then once it's all wired up, calibrated, and testing, the top curve will be covered with some thin plastic, and a throttle legend (0%, 5%, 10%, 15%, etc.) will be printed to be stuck on top.
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hi dave :-) nice start, but I still can't see the interest, instead of buying something like this !
http://www.amazon.com/Saitek-Three-Throttle-Quadrant-PZ45/dp/B000TCEU4Q
(if just talking about a throttle controller, off course)
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Good luck with your build dave, looks good so far.
I find it really enjoyable building these controllers using the grey matter a little bit, overcoming problems etc thats what I enjoy and it's not rocket science either.
I don't see the interest in paying a shed load of money on flight controls for a ship sim, they're not the same and look like flight controls not ship controls, I can build one of these controllers for a fraction of the price of the pre made flight controls and have a sense of acheivement and something that looks like it belongs on a ship rather than a cessna at the end of it.
Each to their own I suppose.
pigdog
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I certainly understand the sense of satsfaction in building your own controllers. Well done Dave. Keep up the good work.
I do also understand why others will buy something ready-made. To each hiis own, eh?
I'd love to get back on the building-it-myself track, but time isn't on my side, currently. Maybe when I retire (never!).
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Looks really nice. Have you tought of putting some kind of midle stopper to it, or something that the 0% position would have more resistance? So that you can find it with out looking to the controller.
It might be done very easily by screwing a screw to the side of the controller, and leaving it out so that the uprights would touch it when passing by...
I bet that your controller costs less than the saitek one, and is much better...
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Heya,
I've read through this thread and I really wish I could make something like this but alass I wouldn't even know where to start. I was spent some time at the Royal Naval officer collage and they have a great brigde sim set up there moves and everything.
I am still wet behide the ears when it comes to ship sim's but I have been to sea loads of time when I was in cadets, one of you guys should got in to making and seloling theses controls one as there a gap in the market ;) ;)
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Hi OLDSEADOG. Welcome!
Wet behind the ears on the bridge simulator? Wow, that is a good one! Ultimate realism when the simulation throws salt water at you. ;D
Is that the simulator down at Southampton?
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I have read this thead with great interest since I am a long-time bodger of controls for flight sims. Good on all of you who are building proper bridge controls. For anyone who is unsure of their ability or who don't have much room or time or whatever try this.
I bought a simple gamepad controller mainly for Shipsim so I plug it in before loading the game and it automatically takes over from my Saitek Cyborg Evo in Windows, and when I set it up in Shipsim I found enough rudders, throttles and buttons for normal uses. When sailing I have always found it best to set and leave controls using the on screen icons and mouse - then take over with the pad when docking or manoevering (or when driving a fast boat.
(By the way, after years of making horrendous devices for flying controls I have evolved a simple arrangement - 3d stick fastened beside my keyboard as a sidestick, the twisty handle potentiometer was removed and lives on a home made rudder pedal set, the throttle pot lives in a box on the left and from this a switch and socket lets me connect a home made collective lever on my seat instead (for helicopter flying). takes up very little room and leaves the keyboard free access.)
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There has been some development. I have post it to the azimuth discussion.
http://www.shipsim.com/ShipSimForum/index.php/topic,9839.0.html
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Anyone knows where to get a hold hold on Azipod 3600 joystick/levers?
Are there any out of the box solutions to the issue of controllers, other than the prizy SScontroller?
Below 200 Euros?
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Not yet... ;)
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Hello Skippers,
As a Tug-nut, I can see that I need both a controller for conventional steering as well as one for azimuth steering.
Has anyone been thinking of a digital encoder, like those sitting in a mouse? Or will the electronics be too complicated.
They dont have a stop and should be able to make the correct 360 degree steering.
Skipper Wande.
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Hi All,
I've had some spare time over the past couple of days so I have made some progress with my controller (well a total remodel of my original to incorperate azimuth controls actually) this way I can use the standard throttle and thruster controls and use the azimuth controls for steering and then just use the azimuth controls for the B2 and ocean star,Providing the in game azimuth steering gets sorted out of course.
I binned my other idea as space was getting tight inside the small units, but I'm much happier with these new units.
So I ordered a modeling kit from Maplins which has some cog wheels in it which I can use to connect the steering to my 360 deg pot and I bought 4 conduit boxes which I used to build my azimuth controls with, I was looking at a real azimuth control the other day and thought "what do they look like" and as soon as I seen the conduit boxes I knew they would do the job. FIG 1.
I mounted my throttle pot inside one conduit box so the shaft would poke out through the backing plate and then drilled a hole in the back of the other box so the shaft would fit in and can be locked off. FIG 2.
I found two corner pieces off a hanging rail that would work for throttle handles they work and look really good (my girlfriend doesn't think they look that good but thats probably because all her clothes are now on the floor) FIG 3.
Now the azimuth unit is all together I can't go much further unitl my telephone untanglers arrive which will enable the 360 steering and not let the throttle wires tangle.
I needed a housing to hold the cog wheels and all the wires, I was going to build two seperate housings but realised that would be alot of work so I turned to my previous unit with the conventional throttle and steering controls, I held the new azimuth units up to it and it looked really cool so I knew thats where they were going to be mounted, but to allow them to swing 360 degrees I would have to move everything so out came the saw and I cut another piece of wood and then began to mount everything giving enough clearence so the units could fully turn and I was really pleased with the results.FIG 4, 5.
I've just got a bit of wiring to do now, I have to extend the thruster wires and make up a set of wires for the telephone untanglers when they arrive so I will post the progress when thats done.
Pigdog
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could someone explain to me what a pot and bu0836 is? About how much does it cost to make one and could someone explain to me how to? Pigdog how much were the penta throttles?
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Hi KAYEM6,
A Pot, or potentiometer in full, is basicall a rotary knob. Like for example a volume knob on a stereo system, that you turn either clock- or counter-clockwise to turn the music louder or less loud.
The BU0836 is a small, ready made, circuitboard, that you can use to wire pots or knobs to, to have axis and buttons to build your own joystick, or indeed, shipsim controller. It is the "brain" of the controller, that way.
Your pots and knobs would be wired to this unit (and each other, in places) and the unit will be connected, via USB, to the PC...and then the circuit board tells the PC what you are operating. You can assign the axis (pot movements) and knobs as you see fit. Thus you'll end up with a custom built, fully programmable 'joystick'.
If you have some materials laying around that you can use to make the 'body' of the controller, then you probably only need pots, some knobs, and the BU0386 unit. I guess you can make one for about 50 to 70 Dollars (the BU0386 costs about $35, the rest is fairly cheap). Maybe a bit more if you do not have some spare wood (or something for the casing) lying around.
I am building one, and although it's on the shelf for a bit whilst I am busy with other things, I have spent about 45 Euro's in materials and I have everything I need. So yeah, 45 Euro's, not bad for a custom build controller. Now it's just a matter of putting it all together. And for that phase, one would obviously also need some basic skills with several different tools, and one would need to have (or borrow, or rent) some tools too of course. But it's relatively easy, really. It all depends how far you want to go, and how good you want it to be. You can buy second hand real gear, but that's really really pricey, usually. So this is a nice way to do it, and not expensive.
Regards,
Fred
* Edit * Typo
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Thanks now all i have to do is figure out why my computer freezes while im in multi player mode. oh yea, how much and where can i get the pots.
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Cool, i am going to try it out ;P
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Thanks now all i have to do is figure out why my computer freezes while im in multi player mode. oh yea, how much and where can i get the pots.
No problem!
If you have a problem with the game, you can post your problem (or look for an answer first) in the Technical Support (http://www.shipsim.com/ShipSimForum/index.php/board,5.0.html) section of the forum.
As far as pots go, you can get cheap ones for a dollar or a couple of dollars. And there's also real real expensive ones too, it all depends on what quality you want. You can get them in hardware stores that do electronics aswell. Or some home-appliance stores that sell spare parts, something like that.
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Thanks again :)
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My pleasure! :)
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I just had the craziest idea ever... but it just might work!
1) research Titanic's navigation bridge wheel and engine telemotors until there is nothing left to find
2) somehow get the materials originally used for it
3) rebuild the navigation bridge wheel and 1 main engine telemotor, altering it so it can fit this process (I think alteration is needed?)
4) run through this process
5) pilot the Titanic using replicated controls ;D
Thing is, the navigation bridge wheel is believed to be 3.9 feet in diameter! :o
So how much altering of the original design do you think would be needed? It sure would make for a funny Youtube video ;D
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Engine Telemotors? RMS Gigantic was the only ship to have engine telemotors.
I may be wrong about that. The Good Ship Lollypop may have had them as well.
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sounds good.
Hmmm my uncle has a telemotor? ;D
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What's his Rate of Turn (RoT) at full steam ahead?
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Not sure its kinda in peices like a kit. ???
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How would I fit a 3.9 foot wheel and a telemotor in my computer room? ;D
Well I suppose I have some room towards the area opposite my comp :P
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My appologies for the double post, but I have a question:
How would you set a limit as to how far you could turn the wheel or engine controls?
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Its about the same as on the titanic in the game. Like I said its in peices and spread out all over the house. ::) ;D
I've decided to build a controller and heres what i got at radioshack today:
http://www2.snapfish.com/slideshow/AlbumID=250405539/PictureID=6139689303/a=108372266_108372266/t_=108372266
http://www2.snapfish.com/slideshow/AlbumID=250405539/PictureID=6139689304/a=108372266_108372266/t_=108372266
Tommarow i'm going to the marine consignment shop ;D ;D ;D ;D
Here are the goods from the consingnment shop:
http://www2.snapfish.com/slideshow/AlbumID=250405539/PictureID=6139909236/a=108372266_108372266/t_=108372266
http://www2.snapfish.com/slideshow/AlbumID=250405539/PictureID=6139909236/a=108372266_108372266/t_=108372266
It was somewhat expensive at $45.
My newly milled voice recorder control pannel:
http://www2.snapfish.com/slideshow/AlbumID=250405539/PictureID=6139958730/a=108372266_108372266/t_=108372266
http://www2.snapfish.com/slideshow/AlbumID=250405539/PictureID=6139958730/a=108372266_108372266/t_=108372266
Electronics installed:
http://www2.snapfish.com/slideshow/AlbumID=250405539/PictureID=6139972716/a=108372266_108372266/t_=108372266
http://www2.snapfish.com/slideshow/AlbumID=250405539/PictureID=6139972716/a=108372266_108372266/t_=108372266
FINISHED!!! ;D ;D
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Anyone else know where I can buy the BU0836 as I don't use Paypal
**EDIT** Just found out that I don't need to use Paypal
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Another question... Im not sure on what type of buttons to use, I want start and stop for both engines and a horn.
P.S Will i need to use Diodes??? ???
Freddy
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Another question... Im not sure on what type of buttons to use, I want start and stop for both engines and a horn.
P.S Will i need to use Diodes??? ???
Freddy
For the buttons use spst momentary
something like this. http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062539
no diodes will be needed since there is only 3 switches.
Here is my board so far still a work in progress.
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i113/bsm2003/th_cont_board.jpg) (http://s70.photobucket.com/albums/i113/bsm2003/?action=view¤t=cont_board.jpg)
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Only little old me again... I was wondering how i connect up buttons as i don't want to mess this masterpiece up.
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Hi all,
I've revived an old project and am currently testing it.. works like a charm.
But it needs a few better, and more important, much bigger knobs for the two rudders (2 in the center) and the thrusters (the two on the right side). I might make 'tiller style knobs' from scratch though, for the rudders, I have a few interesting parts that would combine nicely.
And I'll give the knobs some decals, or dials if you will, although it allready feels intuitive without that visual aid, but it will improve the look of course.
I'm thinking of buying another circuit board to connect up analog sticks from an old joypad (and loads more knobs) to also be able to operate azipods properly, which these two rudder potmeters wont do.
And then it'd probably get a new case.. and will be a bit less.. shabby looking.. hehe.. But hey, it works like a charm so far.
(The covered/blurred monitors are for a reason that should be obvious... heh..)
(http://i42.tinypic.com/316uddl.jpg)
(http://i40.tinypic.com/14b7ris.jpg)
Fred
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(The covered/blurred monitors are for a reason that should be obvious... heh..)
And before anyone asks, no. Fred is not logged on to some dodgy web sites. :evil:
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Well, you made a control unit, so won't you be able to build yourself a nice rudder knob?
(http://www.chandleryworld.co.uk/acatalog/FUHANDLE_150.jpg)
Here is a nice example to follow.
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Hiya Sam,
Yeah I am looking into something nice.
But there's not much room on this 'prototype' for two of those. And I reckon two big dial type knobs might be nice for this version.
I'll have to see what I can find to fiddle around with.. :)
Terry.. :lol:
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Hey guys I am up for building one of these things but I have no idea how I would make azzi pod controlls also if there is any where to buy a premade one that would save me from a few days of work.
**EDIT**
Okay well there are only two controllers made for Ship sim. they are the ShipDriver which has already been talked about. Well it will begin selling on April 10th 2009. not that far away :). There still has been know price set. the web site is here http://www.simw.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=dsp_product_details&pid=1886
The other one is the ship control Unit from Wilco Publishing it was made for ship sim 2006 i do not know if it is compatiable with 2008. I dont know if they stopped selling ti or not because it distributer no longer sells it but on its page it is listed for € 288.43 and $362.00. Which is crazy i think. here is the link http://www.wilcopub.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=prod_scu
Now I have the Saitek X52 control system for FSX and i made it work for this and i love it i can use every thing i took me about 25 min. to set it up but it works. Now this does cost around $150 which is pretty high i somehow got mine for $40 at bestbuy because they put the wrong tag on it and we talked and they gave it to me for $40 which is cool.
I think i am going to go ahead and build one of these things which should be easy becuase i live along the Ohio River. I just am going to fig. the prices and then i see what i can do.
Hope this info helped anyone that is to lazy to make one lol :)
**EDIT**
okay so i have been looking at the prices of everything and they are a little high so i might not go out and do bow and stern thrusters till i get more money i just need help on picking out the right Potentiometer. there are alot of different ones to choose from. i have also seen people makeing the end of it thicker i dont see that in to picture what is that for? I also need to know if i need 2 rudder knobs thank you and really looking forward to a reply
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hi and this ? http://www.stork-kwant.com/Index.aspx?page=Products&id=44