Ship Simulator
English forum => Ship Simulator 2008 => General discussions => Topic started by: Traddles on October 16, 2007, 15:10:44
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Many will have noticed the new controls for "Ocean Star", but how to operate them?? :-\
I've been having a go and it seems the blue circle works the direction the engine is thrusting. I.E. if you click at 90degrees the thrust operates in that direction, and similarly if you click at any angle from the centre. The brown circle operates reverse drive, and the green one ahead drive. If you click on the inner edge of the green circle and steadily move outwards the engine speeds up to full ahead. In the brown circle if you click on the outer edge and move inwards the engine speeds up to full astern. It baffled me for a while till I realised you do not need a stern thruster with this system. I am rather ignorant of modern design, but is this how such controls operate in reality? It is very clever in my humble opinion. ??? ;D. To stop engine quickly, click the boundary line between brown and green. Perhaps I should say red rather than brown, but on my set up it looks brown!!!! :-\
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In my experience, the real controls of this design do not have reverse gear. If you want to go astern you direct the thrust towards the bow. There is no need for astern gear. In fact the drives rotate around much faster than the clutch would be able to switch from ahead to astern. I hope that they will do away with the red circle and astern all together. It would make the controls much more user friendly especially operating them with a mouse.
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I'm not 100% sure but I beleive the "Ocean Star" you are referring to is a cruise ship, so it sounds like they have added Azimuthing Podded Propulsion (Azipods) in this version of the add-on. This means that electric motors are housed in a pod that hang below the ship and there are no gears or clutches, the electric motor is coupled directly to the prop. The pod can turn 360 degrees continuously and there are no rudders in this desgin. The props can still spin in either direction (ie there is still an "ahead" and "astern") however you will get more astern power if you keep the props spinning in the "ahead" direction and just turn the pod all the way around. This is a very common propulsion system for cruise ships now, however the technology was first developped for icebreakers.
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Hi Roed & Addubya,
Thanks for your posts, things have changed drastically since my sea going days. My third ship as a cadet in the 1950's didn't even have a wheelhouse ::). Just a covered roof with three little windows in front. All watchkeeping was done outside whatever the weather, and as for radar and gyro compass, forget them!!!!
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can anybody put some pictures of the controls?
i want to see them
thank you
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can anybody put some pictures of the controls?
i want to see them
thank you
Here you go! :)
Regards
groennegaard
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I wish they would put these controls on a tugboat next.
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Pods are great! Easy to manover. Sorry about my bad spelling :-[
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The controls are great, but I dont :-[ like them, the right direction key to steer to port, left one to starboard.
Also, rotating the controls clockwise results in the ship turning to port. ::)
I wonder if it is not somewhat in contradiction with IMO "Guidelines on ergonomic criteria for bridge equipment and layout (MSC/Circ.982, 5.5.2.) (http://www.imo.org/includes/blastDataOnly.asp/data_id%3D1878/982.pdf)" :
The direction of motion of operating elements for manoeuvring equipment should correspond with the direction of the effect on the ship caused by the installations controlled.
Regards,
Luc
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I don’t yet have Ocean Star, so I can’t say anything intelligent about her controls.
Here’s a link to discussion about various azimuthing thrusters, specifically the AZIPOD.
http://www.shipsim.com/ShipSimForum/index.php/topic,2550.msg28635.html#msg28635 (http://www.shipsim.com/ShipSimForum/index.php/topic,2550.msg28635.html#msg28635)
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Hi Luc
As far as im aware the controls on Ocean Star are not in contradiction to IMO regulations. I have personally controlled a vessel using this type of control and I found them very intuative. If you think about it there not much diffent to a tiller.
Lester
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You can just use the bottom of the wheel as helmsmen of yore did. For the keys: Think “hard a’ port†and “hard a’ starboard†as helmsmen did prior to 1932.
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Greetings,
My first try with the pods,did not work out very good,as i came in to Marseille,i ran in to the outer wall of the harbour,with some crazy speed of 20 knots.
Regards
Marc
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I ran aground on my first try, in Phi-Phi. You have to laugh though eh :D
I need some serious practice I think ::) ;D
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Hello,
(MSC/Circ.982, 5.5.1.) Same reference, Movement of Controls (http://www.imo.org/includes/blastDataOnly.asp/data_id%3D1878/982.pdf):
Movement of a control forward, clockwise to the right, or up, should:
- turn the equipment or component on, or
- cause the quantity to increase, or
- move the equipment or component forward, clockwise, to the right, or up.
I think the controls are in contradiction with IMO regulations (as also are these of the kind of RPA12).
And yes to your suggestion, mvsmith, ;D it is a good one. Still, the right arrow to go to port, I find it a little bit strange. And as far as I think, the Azipod controls are turned 180°.
Well, I dont care much about it it, as orders are to be given by voice, acknowledged and reported, and the helmsman has to know what he has to do... but I still dont like them. Haha. (Chacun son goût.. ::) . to each his taste).
Regards,
Luc
On the picture, turning this thing clockwise results in your ship turning counterclockwise, as you can intuitively think?
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Luc,
I have to wait for the 08 version to be available for purchase to see for myself.
I get the impression from the posts that it will make people appreciate Red Eagle. :)
Marty
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Greetings,
Yep,i found out that this is more a challenge(which i like),my first time with this steering system,did not came out good.
It's just more practice.
Regards
Marc
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christ! :'(
everyone can play the game...exept me! >:(
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I know I'm getting old but I seem to be missing something here. Ocean Star I have as an addon for 2006 but this thread is under 2008. Have I not noticed and addon for 2008 or is it just that some folk have it for testing? ???
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aarhasrhhrhrhrh!!!!!!!, it's 3 hours ago when i started downloading the add-on, and because of the f****ngloadofg****mmbu**f*#$!!!!! is the download stopped everytime!!
i need a torent or something that don't loses everything when that F*****G internet falls off! >:(
Edited by DJM. It was pretty obvious what you were saying, so I removed some of the letters, maybe use a little more censorship next time :)
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aarhasrhhrhrhrh!!!!!!!, it's 3 hours ago when i started downloading the add-on, and because of the ******!!!!! is the download stopped everytime!!
i need a torent or something that don't loses everything when that F****** internet falls off! >:(
Now what has this post to do with Ocean Star controls!? ??? Why don't you just use a download manager if you have such a lousy connection? There no need for making such a fuss about it in here...
Regards
groennegaard
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i need a torent or something that don't loses everything
You need GetRight ;)
http://getright.com/
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OK found it. Downloading at the moment. And as I get upset when someone says they have solved the problem but don's say how - this will tell you how :D http://www.shipsim.com/ShipSimForum/index.php/topic,3052.0.html
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Having started this thread I have been trying to master the handling of "Ocean Star" but am finding she is a real pig to control. I can understand what is SUPPOSED to happen but find it hardto MAKE it happen. I'd rather handle "Titanic" than "Ocean Star" if this is what she would be like in reality. :o :o
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Having started this thread I have been trying to master the handling of "Ocean Star" but am finding she is a real pig to control. I can understand what is SUPPOSED to happen but find it hardto MAKE it happen. I'd rather handle "Titanic" than "Ocean Star" if this is what she would be like in reality. :o :o
I can relate to that, I either need some serious practice, or I am really THAT BAD ::) :D
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Greetings Carl,
No you are not bad,because i sit in the same possision.I think this system works the same as a "Z Drive"schottel.
The props can turn,you dont have rudders.With that system you dont have a reverse,you only turn your props the other way around.
I find this a very nice challenge,and it's nice to have these features into the game.
Regards
Marc
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I do like a challenge, but this one has me baffled. I'm sure we will get used to it (those of us who know nothing about vessel propulsion) ;D
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I have to admit seeing all these posts just further confirms suspicions that there is an error in ocean stars ship dynamics. Some of the ways the ship reacts to control inputs are odd such as:
- bow thruster seems a bit to powerful!?
- when performing tight turns or rotation of the ship can spin very rapidly and suddenly (650 deg rotation speed I found)
I have handled smaller passenger vessels with similar propulsion systems to that on Ocean Star and never found any as tricky, nor that can spin as fast. I dont find the controls a problem just the way the ship reacts to them.
Has anyone else found this?
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I have to admit seeing all these posts just further confirms suspicions that there is an error in ocean stars ship dynamics. Some of the ways the ship reacts to control inputs are odd such as:
- bow thruster seems a bit to powerful!?
- when performing tight turns or rotation of the ship can spin very rapidly and suddenly (650 deg rotation speed I found)
I have handled smaller passenger vessels with similar propulsion systems to that on Ocean Star and never found any as tricky, nor that can spin as fast. I dont find the controls a problem just the way the ship reacts to them.
Has anyone else found this?
Greetings,
Yes,the bowtruster is a bit to strong.
If the game is going good,maybe a new patch can put it more realystic.It is quite hard to put dynamics of a vessel,close to the real vessel.
As we know Vstep,i'm sure this will be fixed in time.
Regards
Marc
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I can inform you that the Ocean Star turning rate at zero speed when using the bowthrusters only is 30 degr/min. This is very realistic for a ship with that huge windarea. It might even be too low. Remember that wind and current doesn't yet affect the ships in SS, so you might achieve higher figures than you will see in the real life.
If the Ocean Star of yours spins 650 degr/min using bowthrusters only, it must be caused by a bug and not the bowthruster.
Regards
groennegaard
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I can inform you that the Ocean Star turning rate at zero speed when using the bowthrusters only is 30 degr/min. This is very realistic for a ship with that huge windarea. It might even be too low. Remember that wind and current doesn't yet affect the ships in SS, so you might achieve higher figures than you will see in the real life.
If the Ocean Star of yours spins 650 degr/min using bowthrusters only, it must be caused by a bug and not the bowthruster.
Regards
groennegaard
Greetings,
I'll try that vessel again,this afthernoon(testing).Which i do for all the vessels in the free-roam mode.
Regards
Marc
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I'll try that vessel again,this afthernoon(testing).Which i do for all the vessels in the free-roam mode.
Hi Marc :)
I have tested it already ;)
Max ROT:
Bowthrusters only: 30 degr/min
All means: 75 degr/min
I don't know how this 650 degr/min was achieved. ::) Very strange... :-\
Regards
groennegaard
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I don't think the new controls was any fun. I liked the controls it was on Addon 06. Why change? I now they want it to be more realistic offcourse, but it was nice like it was!
But yeah, now i just have to get use to it :P
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Greetings Groennegaard,
I've been testing this Ocean Star.
I also agree with you,that the dynamics of this vessel are realy realystic.
I started my free-roam mission on the ocean,and went to San Francisco.
It went allright,however one of the AI vessels collided with me,and i started to sink.No problem sofar,because i was on a spot,where it was only 22 deep,so the vessel did not sank all the way.
The controles do realy good to.
This just to inform you.
Regards
Marc
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I ran aground on my first try, in Phi-Phi. You have to laugh though eh :D
I need some serious practice I think ::) ;D
I ran aground at hythe off southampton :( Confusing!
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I ran aground at hythe off southampton :( Confusing!
Were you in the channel? If you were outside of the channel then you would!!
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I was in the channel alright, But the pods confused me. I didn't know it was opposite directions! Went for a right ride. And now just sank her :(
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Hello gents
There is indeed something spooky goingon with Ocean Star with the new podded drives (I assume it has podded drives). I have noticed the following:
- When you swivel both the pods to 90 deg (or 270) and apply full thrust you will only get something like 8 deg/sec rotation. When you compare with the thruster it yield a turnrate of approx 25 deg/sec. There has to be something wrong here becuase common logic would indicate that two pods (that provide main propulsion!) should yield a substantially higher turnrate than the truster.
- Also when the pods are at 90/270 pos you get a considerable forward thrust motion - again that cant be representative for a pod unit. Remember that all thrust is vectored sideways so no forward motion at all should be induced. The gauge say up to 4-5 knots but some of that can be sideways motion but a major part of the idicated speed is indeed true forward motion.
- Last thing is when you set full ahead (green area speed) and swivel the pod 180 degrees so that all thust is now directed backwards the ship turns as if a "rudder" is active.
To me (and now Im speculating) the logic behind Ocean star is still a rudder and screw simutation that has just been "overlaid" with a different steeringlogic through the "pod controllers".
BTW...The joysticks are really a delight to use. A very good implementation of the Man-mouse-machine-interface to controlling these pod controllers.
But all-in-all a very good initiative by Vstep...getting the addon out for SS08 and pls. dont take my critisim to deep...lol. But I would definatly recommend improving the podded drive simulation logic - resetting Ocean Star to the SS06 logic would be a step back...and I'm sure that Vstep eventually will get it right...they always come through in the end.
Best regards
Michael Christiansen, Karup - Denmark
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Hi Michael,
I agree to your observations. We try hard to improve the vessels dynamics and we can see a positive progress whilst on beta-testing. I really like the azimuth driven vessel and the original command levers too. But I think, they are a little bit to quick in reacting. That's why I often use for manoeuvring or berthing means the keyboard instead. Two neighbour keys each for turning the pod and a third for amidship and the numpad still for the thust. That works fine with such a lethargic vessel like the OCEAN STAR , but of course not with a not yet realized azimuth tractor tug.
Cheers
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It is also possible control the pods at the same time.
Instead of 1 for 1.
Regards,
Hendrik
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It's been a little while since I've been on the fourms :P Is the new Ocean Star that you are talking about on SS06 or SS08?
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@shipkid77: Both! She came with the Add-On for the SS06 and was renewald for SS08. You may use the same licence key, if you still have it.
@xcruiser: Of course is that possible, but it makes more sense and fun to steer the vessel realistic with independent controls.
Cheers
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Ah, thank you.