Ship Simulator
English forum => Ship Simulator Extremes => Topic started by: Walt. on September 30, 2010, 18:30:10
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Hey all,
Is there, or will there be a mission editor for SSE, like the one in SS08?
I really liked it, and i kinda miss it now. :-[
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yes its coming two weeks after the patch release
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I suppose you're talking about pacht 1.02?
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1.2 - yes... ;) - hopefully.
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yes when its released (hopefully in 5 days or less)
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yes when its released (hopefully in 5 days or less)
Bit more than that I think.. it is announced to come approximately 2 weeks after the patch.
Which was first due last friday. So it's somewhere around next friday then that the 2 weeks period is up. But, no specific date was given for that actually, that was just a guestimation of course.
It's coming though, within the next weeks. No fixed date, though. It's going to be released when finished.
Fred
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I think he was talking about the patch, not the mission editor?
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Well that might be so indeed, I figured it could be both ways and took a gamble. ;D
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I hope there is good manual, because I understand this mission editor isn't very user friendly and completely different from SS08. Without a good manual I'm afraid the mods can look forward to another storm in here ;D
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We are prepared with fenders all around due to VSTEP's care.. :thumbs:
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Hi Subwolf,
There is an excellent manual written by Maykel Boes of VSTEP. In addition, there will be Editor Notes providing a basic tutorial and answers to questions raised by users—similar to the Mission Editor Tutorial for SS08.
However, the missions system for Extremes is very different from that in SS08. Where the ’08 editor provided prebuilt waypoints of various types—taxi, rescue, container, towing, etc.—that one simply selected from a list, in Extremes one must construct each “waypoint†from more basic components.
Where the mission logic in ’08 was controlled by, and built into, the waypoints, the mission logic in Extremes is controlled by a finite state machine that one constructs in a logic editor.
The new system provides much more flexibility in constructing missions that are not constrained by the strictly linear nature of the ’08 logic, at the cost of considerably more effort on the part of the creator.
Regards,
Marty
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any news on this?
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the mission logic in Extremes is controlled by a finite state machine that one constructs in a logic editor.
That little bit has my mouth watering... I hope the ME is released soon as the wait is killing me :P
Will we be able to do any scripting? In my dreams we will be able to write Lua (http://www.lua.org/about.html) scripts for missions. Give me Lua and I'll make those AI captains obey the COLREGS (or at least give it the old college try)
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Hi Subwolf,
There is an excellent manual written by Maykel Boes of VSTEP. In addition, there will be Editor Notes providing a basic tutorial and answers to questions raised by users—similar to the Mission Editor Tutorial for SS08.
However, the missions system for Extremes is very different from that in SS08. Where the ’08 editor provided prebuilt waypoints of various types—taxi, rescue, container, towing, etc.—that one simply selected from a list, in Extremes one must construct each “waypoint†from more basic components.
Where the mission logic in ’08 was controlled by, and built into, the waypoints, the mission logic in Extremes is controlled by a finite state machine that one constructs in a logic editor.
The new system provides much more flexibility in constructing missions that are not constrained by the strictly linear nature of the ’08 logic, at the cost of considerably more effort on the part of the creator.
Regards,
Marty
This sounds... very complicated... :-\
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This sounds... very complicated... :-\
I understood! ;D
I hope the Editor comes out soon* but I don't expect it to be out for at least a week.
*soon= 2-4 days
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Will we be able to do any scripting?
Hi Captain Canuck,
No, it is not a script based system in the usual sense, although the logic graph could be called a script. VSTEP called it a scenario editor, but mercifully they are dropping that in favor of logic editor.
It is closer to an OOP like Object Pascal, or its visual counterpart Delphi, in that you are dealing with entities that have properties.
There are actually two editors: The first is similar to the SS08 ME where you do the actual placement of objects in the environment, both the ships and waypoints.
However, the waypoints are not like those in SS08 where there were a limited number of specialized waypoints—Normal (navigational), Taxi, Rescue, Container, etc.—that had the mission logic built into them, which forced a strictly linear structure on the mission.
In SSE you place entities that the mission logic can interrogate and control. They are “waypoints†only in the sense that the logic can mark their locations on the chart so that you can navigate toward them.
The second—logic, or “scenarioâ€â€”editor is partly visual in that you draw a logic diagram by connecting States and the triggers that cause a change to the next state. You construct the triggers with one or more Conditions and one or more Actions which you choose from an extensive list.
When all of the conditions are true, the actions are done in the specified order—effectively putting the mission in a new state.
Because the logic diagram permits branching and parallel threads, the resulting missions do not need to be strictly linear.
Regards,
Marty
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So I can expect some fun new missions! ;D
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mvsmith, thanks for your post, but I'm surprised to hear that they're not able to make the editor a little more user friendly.
Anyway, I hope a mod can answer BeerBob's question, or should we expect another delay?
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Your judging of something you have never seen as “not user friendly†does not, for some reason, surprise me.
The release of the ME will happen when it is ready to be released. That is the latest news.
The mission editor is not a separate, standalone, program, but is an integral part of SSE. Version 1.3 has a button on the main menu to enter the ME mode. The editor, in turn, returns directly to the main menu.
Because the release of the editor requires thorough testing of V1.3, it is not possible to predict when that will be completed.
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Hi Marty,
You have done nothing but whet my appetite and I've got dozens of questions... however I'll force myself to sit on my hands until the editor is released and I get a chance to play around with it. This should be fun! ;D
I'm surprised to hear that they're not able to make the editor a little more user friendly.
Actually, that is likely about as user friendly as one can expect. In fact I am rather surprised that VSTEP has gone to the lengths that they have. If I had received my wish people would have to learn a programming language. Now THAT would be complicated and not very user friendly! This should be a breeze... relatively speaking of course.
[Edit]
The mission editor is not a separate, standalone, program, but is an integral part of SSE. Version 1.3
Bit of a cross post... but that was one of my questions! Thanks.
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This sounds... very complicated... :-\
Your comment reminded me of this ;)
(http://www.suderman.com/images/gameprogramming.jpg)
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Hi Captain Canuck,
If you are into computer programming, I’m certain that you will enjoy using the ME. I find it by far the most interesting aspect of SSE.
It has been in use for some time by the CMMs/Moderators in preparation for supporting users and starting up the Upload/Download feature for custom missions.
In addition to a very comprehensive guide by Maykel Boes, I’ve written a tutorial similar to the one I wrote for the SS 2008 editor.
I’ve heard no cries of anguish from anyone using the ME, so I doubt that it is very unfriendly.
Of course, the CMMs are very experienced in mission creation under SS08, and that is perhaps more important than the mechanics of a particular editor.
If you have written software using as many different languages as I have in my 50+ years at it, you realize that the important, and most difficult, thing is knowing how to construct well organized programs; and not the learning of another language.
Regards,
Marty
To whet your appetite further, here is a section of the mission logic for “Business As Usualâ€.
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Marty, you are a real [expletive deleted] ;)
You have me beat by a few years as I am "only" 47. However, I am a software developer by trade and I write compilers as a hobby. In fact I have the Sipser text book (http://www-math.mit.edu/~sipser/book.html) on my bookshelf (check the blackboard in the cartoon). My wife got a chuckle out of that cartoon because she says the material quoted (Turing machines) is covered in chapter 5, not chapter 7 (she teaches "Formal Languages and Automata" with that text book... gotta love the wife ;))
However, you are not allowed to post anymore teasers like that unless you can post a release date along with it ::)
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Hi Captain Canuck,
As I explained before, it is not possible to know when the ME can be released until testing is complete.
The alternative is to guess at a date and either keep revising the guess or release it bugs and all to satisfy the kiddies who took a guess as a promise.
The latter would be another cluster fun like the two we have been suffering through, and would start another round of pointless rants by the nattering nabobs of negativism.
If you can stand to be teased some more, I could send a copy of the tutorial I’m preparing. I would need your email address because I can’t attach it to a PM. It is a 280 KB PDF. You could send your address to me in a PM, or send email to the address in my profile.
Regards,
Marty
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Hi Marty,
I was just "givin' you the gears" about the ME release date since being teased with these details with no end in sight is torture. However, I'm a masochist and I'd love to see your tutorial. I'll go send you a PM right now.
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Will the mission editor be released as part of another update which includes more fixes as well? I remember Frank from Vstep mentioned that the mission editor will be released two weeks after the last patch, but now it's getting close to a month. I can see he has deleted that now btw.
But a release should happen soon, I'm sure that a lot of players have finished the few missions included in the game. And now I'm sitting on deck with my feet in the water, waiting for something to do ;)
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That has already been covered in another post: V1.3, which is being tested now, has the mission editor as an integral part of SSE.
The ME is not a separate program as it was in SS2008.
V1.3 cannot, or should not, be released until it has been tested and any bugs fixed. It is not possible to predict when all the bugs will be found and fixed, so any date would be little more than a guess.
If I were to make a guess, it would be early December.
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so the me will be in 1.3 and its coming out in september? :'( :'( CAN'T WAIT THAT LONG (sorry for caps) jeez man 2 weeks after the release of 1.2 it was going to be released and pjort told me so cry
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After losing all my save games to corruption due to bugs in the 1.2 update I'd honestly much rather be patient and allow Vstep the time they need to iron out any 'kinks' in 1.3. No point in rushing it out. ;)
C.
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...Frank from Vstep mentioned that the mission editor will be released two weeks after the last patch,,,,
Indeed, but we have not yet seen the last patch, or patches.
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Indeed, but we have not yet seen the last patch, or patches.
No he meant the v1.2.2 patch
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When he thought that would be the last patch.
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Indeed, but we have not yet seen the last patch, or patches.
Does that make 1.3 the "last patch" then? ;)
It is not possible to predict when all the bugs will be found and fixed
OH OH (wave arms in the air) I know the answer to that one... NEVER! ::) If the programmers at VSTEP can write completely bug free code they need to go work for Microsoft and show them how its done. ;D
However, maybe VSTEP should consider a public beta before release, or better yet do like Bohemia Interactive does with ARMA2 and let anyone that wants download the "nightly build". The real problem isn't writting bug free code, but writing code that works with everyone else's buggy code (graphics/sound drivers, Direct X, Windows etc.). To test that VSTEP needs their code running on as many machines as possible.
Cheers.
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...The real problem isn't writting bug free code, but writing code that works with everyone else's buggy code (graphics/sound drivers, Direct X, Windows etc.). To test that VSTEP needs their code running on as many machines as possible.
Cheers.
Hi Keith,
That is true; it might have saved some trouble if the betas were tested on average systems.
An open beta is not feasible because signed non-disclosure agreements are required of all testers. This restricts the choice to candidates of an age where such agreements are legally binding.
Too much proprietary information is exposed to make it a good idea. Even with the limited number of testers, copies of betas found their way onto the Internet.
Also, the problem was not that there were undiscovered bugs. The problem was a commitment to the publisher to release on a certain date, ready or not.
As one who studies the bug tracker daily, I can assure you that bugs are found. The problem, as you know, is in fixing them without creating new bugs. This requires complete retesting of the entire program, not just spot testing to see if a particular bug was fixed.
Unfortunately, unless the temptation to add features that have been demanded is resisted, the potential for introducing even more bugs is even higher.
Regards,
Marty
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As for 1.3 being the “last patchâ€: So far as I know, 1.3 will contain the Editor, so that would make 1.3 the “last patch before the editor is releasedâ€, but I doubt that it will be the last patch.
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If testers have to sign a NDA then it is not an "open" beta though. By definition an open beta is open to anyone. The biggest problem with open beta tests is people always think it is an opportunity to request features they think should have been included, instead of testing what is already there. The devs just have to ignore this "noise" and concentrate on fixing bugs. Beta testing is NOT the time to add new features.
The problem, as you know, is in fixing them without creating new bugs. This requires complete retesting of the entire program, not just spot testing to see if a particular bug was fixed.
Exactly, and it can turn into a mind-numbingly boring job as you play Mission X for the umpteenth time. Hence my "the more the merrier" approach when it comes to beta tests. I don't expect VSTEP to do an open beta for 1.3 as it is not just something you decided to do one day and release the next, but I think it would be a good idea to consider in the future.
Cheers.