Ship Simulator

English forum => Small talk => Topic started by: oceandream on February 18, 2010, 13:45:04

Title: Princess Kaguya
Post by: oceandream on February 18, 2010, 13:45:04
Plz vote(ALL MEMBERS!)
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: Wave Music on February 18, 2010, 14:19:55
Could you, please, put a "I don't know" option for RMS Canada to avoid any discrimination in poll?
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: Stuart2007 on February 18, 2010, 14:55:56
And a "I don't care" option for Stuart2007 to avoid any discrimination in poll?  :D
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: oceandream on February 18, 2010, 15:05:12
Could you, please, put a "I don't know" option for RMS Canada to avoid any discrimination in poll?

Look sorry about that.
but im not discriminating.
i just wanted all the members to vote what about what they think about the new princess kaguya.
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: TJK on February 18, 2010, 15:10:36
why vote, we can talk about it right here

she is to big and ugly  :thumbdown:, i miss all this nise small cruise/liners ships we head in 50 - and 60's and maybe also the 70's
TJK
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: oceandream on February 18, 2010, 15:27:05
and what about the ships from the 80,s?
such as the costa tropicale
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: Wave Music on February 18, 2010, 16:09:04
Look sorry about that.
but im not discriminating.
i just wanted all the members to vote what about what they think about the new princess kaguya.

But if someone doesn't know what to think or say about that ship - how he can vote then if there's no "I don't know" option? 
The poll should be understandable & friendly to all people of wide range of intellect.
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: The Ferry Man on February 18, 2010, 16:19:24
Looks a bit too stretched personally
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: Stuart2007 on February 18, 2010, 16:29:14
How about a poll

"Are you a marine/naval architect and are you qualified to say whether or not it will float/sink/fly?"

Yes/No


Are they really likely to spend 100s millions building something unless mrs miggins in the shipyard pie shop says it is viable? Desirable is a different matter of course!
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: The Ferry Man on February 18, 2010, 16:31:08
How about a poll

"Are you a marine/naval architect and are you qualified to say whether or not it will float/sink/fly?"

Yes/No


Not yet...

Of course it will probably float, as long as the weight of the volume of water displaced is more then the weight of the vessel.

Though I can imagine it having a very large turning circle, and probably not fit most of the ports in the world.
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: Stuart2007 on February 18, 2010, 16:32:40
What was the name of that big barge thing that was supposed to be the biggest floating object, other than Robert Maxwell when he fell from his boat.
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: McGherkin on February 18, 2010, 17:57:25
Robert Maxwell's boat? England?
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: oceandream on February 18, 2010, 18:51:10
Looks a bit too stretched personally

it is
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: Bottman on February 18, 2010, 19:05:59
and what about the ships from the 80,s?
such as the costa tropicale
She was prettier as Carnivals "Tropicale" with the typical funnel.
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: oceandream on February 18, 2010, 19:28:03
they changed here funnel now.
but she is still very pretty
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: matt5674 on February 18, 2010, 21:05:49
But too long!! The longer the ship, the more bent it is, and when it hits high waves, it will break. Princess Kaguya II is better than Princess Kaguya, the longest. If it does sail, I will never go near a long and chance of breaking vessel that is to be longer than the Oasis record holder.
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: Stuart2007 on February 18, 2010, 21:17:56
See above regarding need for professional maritime qualifications...
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: oceandream on February 18, 2010, 21:27:56
But too long!! The longer the ship, the more bent it is, and when it hits high waves, it will break. Princess Kaguya II is better than Princess Kaguya, the longest. If it does sail, I will never go near a long and chance of breaking vessel that is to be longer than the Oasis record holder.
let oasis ,allure and genesis be the largest cruise ships of the world.
hope you guys agree with it
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: Stuart2007 on February 18, 2010, 22:58:49
Unless I'm mistaken, none of us here manage cruise lines, shipyards, certification societies, investment banks or engine builders.

So what we think is quite ir-relevant
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: RMS Canada on February 18, 2010, 23:49:12
Could you, please, put a "I don't know" option for RMS Canada to avoid any discrimination in poll?

No need to, Wave Music.  I've already voted.
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: oceandream on February 19, 2010, 16:17:16
No need to, Wave Music.  I've already voted.

you probably voted : what where they thinking?!
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: McGherkin on February 19, 2010, 18:07:45
I voted;

'Can the it float when it will be launched?'

Just to even things out. It is no longer so under represented. It has 1 vote.
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: matt5674 on February 20, 2010, 03:12:48
I voted;

'Can the it float when it will be launched?'

Just to even things out. It is no longer so under represented. It has 1 vote.
It might not float when launched. A vessel many years ago was launched and it capsized when in the water. Princess Kaguya might end up like another sunken vessel, as the ugliest shipwreck.
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: Stuart2007 on February 20, 2010, 12:04:05
"Dear Bank, I write for a loan of £150,000,000 to build this ship. I enclose our business credentials and forecasts..."

"Dear shipping company. It looks a good proposition. Only one question for us- does it float?"

"Dear Bank. We never thought to check."

Come off it. It isn't going to happen, is it?

Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: Wave Music on February 20, 2010, 14:41:16
Like in the famous phrase:  Every ship floats.  ;D
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: RMS Canada on February 20, 2010, 15:02:53
you probably voted : what where they thinking?!

Correct  :)
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: oceandream on February 20, 2010, 16:04:49
I have a feeling that 2013(my guess) when the ship is going on maiden voyage, people will say they dont like thip.
cause they all get lost.
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: Stuart2007 on February 20, 2010, 16:45:32
Like in the famous phrase:  Every ship floats.  ;D

 :doh:
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: oceandream on February 20, 2010, 17:01:39
 i hope so :)
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: oceandream on February 20, 2010, 21:43:19
and if it doesnt float i will laugh
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: The Ferry Man on February 20, 2010, 21:48:06
I am sure the naval architect in charge will make sure she will float

Besides the length won't make a difference to wether or not she floats - the long length means she will displace  more water so will make up for the length
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: Minime on February 20, 2010, 22:47:58
I am sure it will float and work, if it was that questionable, they probably wouldn't risk to build it. But I just don't understand why they feel the need for such an big ship, certainly seems like madness to me.
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: clanky on February 21, 2010, 10:48:24
It is not so much a question of whether or not she will float when they launch her, as whether or not she will break in half the first time she is in bad weather.

As has been said above, I am sure the naval architects will have calculated all of the bending moments and stresses, but i wouldn't like to be onboard when those calculations are tested in the real world.
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: oceandream on February 21, 2010, 16:11:00
i agree with you clanky
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: SHIPPY67 on February 22, 2010, 00:18:27
It will float, but still... are they going to even build the Princess Kaguya
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: oceandream on February 22, 2010, 02:06:36
yes  the japanese are planning too
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: Firestar on February 22, 2010, 02:12:53
Where's the official word on this?
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: McGherkin on February 22, 2010, 07:48:07
So when are you modelling her Shane?  :lol: :lol: :lol: ;D
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: Wave Music on February 22, 2010, 11:44:34
So when are you modelling her Shane?  :lol: :lol: :lol: ;D

Well pointed!  ;D
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: Stuart2007 on February 22, 2010, 11:58:16
Hmm.. So what you are saying is that it is a very expensive form of "trial and error". Like the Tit...ani...c :sleepy:
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: clanky on February 22, 2010, 12:39:53
Hmm.. So what you are saying is that it is a very expensive form of "trial and error". Like the Tit...ani...c :sleepy:

What who is saying?
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: Stuart2007 on February 22, 2010, 12:49:55
Some of the people here who are saying maybe it will float, maybe it won't...

THOSE people.
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: clanky on February 22, 2010, 12:56:03
Before any design is approved, it is tested in model from and the stability and stress criteria are calculated by the classification society and / or the flag state (not sure on the and /or part, I think it varies between classes of ships).

If a ship is built it will float and will be stable, the problems come when trying to assess it's ability to withstand the physical forces on the hull.  The methods used to calculate these are very advanced, but they are when all is said and done a modelling process, it is impossible to predict exactly the stresses on a hull for every sea condition.

But when was the last time you heard of a ship breaking up in bad weather due to design rather than old age and corrosion?
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: Stuart2007 on February 22, 2010, 13:03:32
Hmmm... A long way back- maybe the US liberty ships, were a good example.

When one looks at the way these things are being built- (the programme about the building of Oasis of the seas) it isn't so much the brute strength of the steel but the way it is built, with everything working together rather than against...

After a challenge on TV years back, myself and a few colleagues wanted to prove it was possible to drive a truck over beer glasses without breaking them... so upside down they were, we drove over and stopped 13 tonnes on top of upturned glasses. But the glass itself is weak if you did it with the glasses on their side...

So, in other words (for the benefit of those who don't understand engineering (ie ME)) that if your ship hits an iceburg, the beer glasses will be the only thing that survives
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: clanky on February 22, 2010, 13:09:20
Indeed, ship construction methods have come a long way since the liberty ships.

With all of the fuss over the Derbyshire tragedy and the suspect design which it was believed had led to a massive structural failure they eventually concluded that (as with most disasters at sea) human error was to blame.

Not only have the ship building methods improved, but the design testing has improved.  Like I said above it is not really possible to predict exactly how a hull will perform in every sea condition, but they are closer than ever before to doing so and I can't remember a recent case where they got it wrong.

My only reservation is that the methods used at present are known to be accurate for the types of ships which are being built at present, but as ship design takes giant leaps ahead rather than small steps these methods ill have to be looked at carefully to ensure that they remain valid.
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: oceandream on February 22, 2010, 19:49:16
well what can i say.......
what youve said is wright.
but one way to make sure things like the derbyshire happen wont ,is to dubbel or even triple the hull.
if its already been sad i know it than
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: Stuart2007 on March 01, 2010, 20:58:02
Clanky, the Liberty ships were known to have faults, but there was a war on and if a few sank, that was bad luck for the crew but no big issue for the powers that be.

However, when investment banks are putting up millions, they will have engineer after engineer consult, re consult, get drunk, lose their blue prints, go on holiday, forget what it was they were on about, come back, claim expenses, and re-read all the reports before they say there is a definate chance that it maybe might be 50/50 whether it sinks or floats (but there is only a 17% chance of them giving a 50/50)
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: Firestar on March 01, 2010, 21:52:03
So when are you modelling her Shane?  :lol: :lol: :lol: ;D
Never. I can promise you that. Seriously, I find the designers of this ship to be quite immature. I think they were going for the records, because I don't think the industry quite demands something so large. I feel that if it was, wouldn't most ships be this big?
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: McGherkin on March 01, 2010, 21:55:57
Don't worry, I didn't think for a minute that you would model her...

Only pulling your leg!
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: Daniel Cho on March 02, 2010, 06:11:55
i think the ship should be a little flexable so the ship wont snap in  a storm. :)
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: McGherkin on March 02, 2010, 07:08:37
As long as it doesn't flex beyond it's elastic limit.

One big crash and BOING! You have a banana.
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: Firestar on March 02, 2010, 19:04:39
Most cruise ships don't spend time in storms. That's largely ocean liner 'territory'. Since most cruise ships stay fairly close to land, they usually dock when there's a storm. These ships aren't built for waves and winds, just look at how they're shaped.
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: Stuart2007 on March 02, 2010, 20:19:22
And if it bends in the middle then it can get around akward navigation channels...  ::)


Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: Firestar on March 02, 2010, 20:23:48
mayb ther should b 2 parts of da ship conected by a rope an they pull each other
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: Stuart2007 on March 02, 2010, 20:29:54
mayb ther should b 2 parts of da ship conected by a rope an they pull each other

That's ridiculous Firestar. Next someone will be saying that the engineers know more than the average forum member.
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: Firestar on March 02, 2010, 20:37:42
Ahahaha...
;D
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: McGherkin on March 02, 2010, 20:53:05
(http://www.sustainabilityninja.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/pelamis-wave-power.jpg)

That sorts out the bending... and you don't need generators...
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: Stuart2007 on March 02, 2010, 21:02:49
I see HM government ARE building some new nuclear subs to fight with... Made from old rubbish bins and bluepeter sellotape
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: McGherkin on March 02, 2010, 21:04:45
Ah yes, here's one of them!

(http://maritime.org/store/media/gifts/toy_windupsub.jpg)
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: Stuart2007 on March 02, 2010, 21:08:41
The government will hold 1000s of committee meetings and have a vote on 10downingst.gov to decide the colour... But that will be about it.

PS What colour ARE the new super carriers going to be? WHO CARES... Since they'll never be built... Just wait 'til we've sold off our 'through deck cruisers' and then once they are gone, we will see the government cancel them.
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: McGherkin on March 02, 2010, 21:12:57
I think that they will be painted white and  graffiti'd on in order to appeal to the younger population.
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: Stuart2007 on March 02, 2010, 21:39:10
Oh wow, man. Happening, innit! That cool broon bloke... yeah. ladsamoney, nahwork, biig bowts to drawa on. ya. fank fork (and nife) that hes in charg, innit.
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: Firestar on March 02, 2010, 22:10:23
(http://www.sustainabilityninja.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/pelamis-wave-power.jpg)

That sorts out the bending... and you don't need generators...
That looks FAKE.
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: Stuart2007 on March 03, 2010, 00:37:56
It's an articulated submarine... In London, we got those for the Thames, to replace the double deck submarines we used to have, until the H&S told us we weren't allowed them any more.  :C

FS- you DO realise it is a electrickery generator, don't you?
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: Firestar on March 03, 2010, 00:44:42
I mean, the image itself looks fake, look on the sides where the water means the craft.
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: Stuart2007 on March 03, 2010, 00:54:25
I mean, the image itself looks fake, look on the sides where the water means the craft.

I can't see it too well on this computer. Not the worlds best screen.
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: Firestar on March 03, 2010, 00:56:46
Hmm, well, it looks very fake on my awesome liquid clear LCD flatscreen monitor.. :lol:
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: Stuart2007 on March 03, 2010, 00:58:53
Hmm, well, it looks very fake on my awesome liquid clear LCD flatscreen monitor.. :lol:

Well, my new Dell Inspiron 10 is designed for portability not for top graphics work. It is certainly easier to carry round than the HP laptop and not as heavy as a desktop PC.
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: Firestar on March 03, 2010, 01:01:45
My desktop isn't for graphics work either..it barely even runs ShipSim. Everything on it is severely under spec. Thank Intel and HP for that..
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: oceandream on March 03, 2010, 21:38:03
if youre pc barely runs shipsim do the usual.
upgrade youre pc
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: Daniel Cho on March 04, 2010, 00:16:39
Most cruise ships don't spend time in storms. That's largely ocean liner 'territory'. Since most cruise ships stay fairly close to land, they usually dock when there's a storm. These ships aren't built for waves and winds, just look at how they're shaped.

i have heard that Princess Kauguya is going to do round-the-world trips so it should be well prepared for stroms
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: Firestar on March 04, 2010, 02:46:36
if youre pc barely runs shipsim do the usual.
upgrade youre pc
I'm building a new one, it's cheaper that way. My current PC cost around $750.00, well, I can build one bucket-loads better for $380.
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: McGherkin on March 04, 2010, 08:00:05
Assuming you know how to build a computer...
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: oceandream on March 04, 2010, 23:38:52
oh yeah fire star!
ill pay you $880

to build me a computer
LOL ma parents wont let me buy my own
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: Firestar on March 05, 2010, 00:46:57
Will you seriously pay me $800 dollars? I would seriously do it if I could ship to where ever you lived..

Also, McG, I know how to build one. I do it all the time. ;D
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: McGherkin on March 05, 2010, 08:11:04
Well I don't know how to build computers, so for the moment I'll leave it to Compaq
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: Firestar on March 05, 2010, 22:41:39
It's quite simple. You only need about 8 different parts.
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: McGherkin on March 06, 2010, 20:56:53
Software?
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: Firestar on March 06, 2010, 23:04:38
You don't need any software, except for drivers maybe but they usually come with it.
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: McGherkin on March 07, 2010, 11:56:29
I'd probably end with a pile of broken bits at the end :(

Anyway, Back on topic.

Should Kaguya be built?

I think yes as an engineering achievement, but no as a device for carrying 1500 chavs to Benidorm.
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: Firestar on March 07, 2010, 15:53:16
This is small talk. We're allowed to go off topic. ;D

I find the Princess Kaguya to be ridiculous enough.
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: clanky on March 07, 2010, 17:39:07
I think yes as an engineering achievement, but no as a device for carrying 1500 chavs to Benidorm.

I'd go with yes for both so long as they didn't come back!

To be honest, no I don't think she should be built.  It is only a matter of time before a cruise ship goes hurtling to the bottom and the bigger these ships get the more people are going to be killed when it happens.

Yes safety standards are high, but it is impossible to prevent every accident, and by the law of averages one of these days one of the accidents will be major, as these ships are getting larger and larger they are also becoming technically more and more complex, combined with ever dropping standards in training for seafarers means that accidents become more and more likely, the scale of any major incident becomes larger and larger and the crew will be less and less able to deal with one when it happens.

Apart from that I think these very large crowd carriers also loose something that was special about cruising in the days of smaller more intimate ships.
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: The Ferry Man on March 07, 2010, 17:40:39
I still cannot see how you could possibly evacuate 3-4 thousand people in time as well...
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: clanky on March 07, 2010, 17:44:26
I still cannot see how you could possibly evacuate 3-4 thousand people in time as well...

You can't - everyone knows that you can't, the rules say 30 minutes, and if you take 4,000 able bodied people who have had some training in the use of boats etc. you still struggle, if you take 4,000 cruise ship passengers and shut all the fire doors it would be carnage.

Ship construction, especially in the area of structural fire protection is good, but at the end of the day if a major fire does break out, you have 4,000 people in a big steel box.
Title: Re: Princess Kaguya
Post by: The Ferry Man on March 07, 2010, 17:47:28
eactly - some look okay, but they are really a disaster waiting to happen  :-\

I was talking to someone once who had been on one of the less big big cruisers, and I am sure I rember him saying that when departure day came, they had to empty it out in lots, so many people, then another group...