Ship Simulator
English forum => Small talk => Topic started by: Stuart2007 on August 02, 2009, 18:53:49
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Following on from a discussion in another topic, would anyone here (where is Capt. Traddles? ???) offer an opinion on whether a 22ft yacht- when crewed by someone competent is big enough to take to open water, such as the Straits of Dover?
I've heard people have taken them across the Atlantic but, if this is true, then they're surely clinically insane. ::) Certainly this isn't for me!
Any advice from boat owners or retired mariners (hint, hint, Capt. Traddles ;) ) would be appreciated.
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Depends on how competent the boat is too and what purpose it was built for. There are many different kinds of 22 footers. Are you asking about a specific boat?
Russ K
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Here I am. ;D ;D I see no reason at all why such a sailing yacht should not cross the channel. I know for a fact that a 10ft Mirror dinghy, such as mine, has made the trip more than once. If the weather conditions are good it is no different from sailing on an inshore lake, apart, that is, from fully understanding that the Channel is the busiest seaway in the world and being well aware of the tidal flows.. I doubt if you could get insurance cover for the venture though. :evil:
Angus.
P.S. If I were a little bit younger I would love to have a go, but then my wife reckons I am a nut case anyway. :doh:
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Well the sails create some problems, a gust of wind from the wrong direction in heavy seas could easily capsize it. I don't see any reason a normal pleasure craft couldn't if it had enough fuel and bilge pumps.
Although I am speaking as if I were to go do it, if someone that did it knew what they were doing I am sure it would be fine.
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AA, why would you want an engine?? Nasty, smelly, noisy things that only cause trouble. :-*
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Well, if three incompentant fools in a Toyota Pick-up Truck with foam in the engine can do it... I am sure a Competent Captain in a 22ft could do it...
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AA2, why would you want an engine?? Nasty, smelly, noisy things that only cause trouble. :-*
Power is always nice, instead of relying on nature... I was just saying I know for a fact I couldn't do it, but an experienced captain with a good boat most certainly could.
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Thanks Gentlemen.
Capt. Traddles, if you don't mind, can I PM you a pic and tech. summary...
This looks quite a good opportunity to buy a boat again (I once had a 33% share of a Macwester Rowan 22!)
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Question, how stable are these vessels in heavy seas?
I do know they have a very large stabilizer fin on the bottom, but how much does that help?
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A bilge keel. I'm told it's stable in calm-moderate weather, but don't go racing with a full mast of sails in a storm... ;D
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Also, are the sails built to be used in HIGH winds, or are they more just for breezy weather?
(I have never been on a sailboat before)
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The sails are detachable... You can buy new sails... And re-rig the boat depending on its use.
EDIT
Also, of course, a short keel means constant attention to course as it will be thrown off more easily than something with a longer keel. Put another way, it isn't a 'point it that way and then go down to make a cup of tea'
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So they make different sails for different conditions.
Thanks.
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There's quite a lot of things you can do to the basic hull to make it suitable for different conditions.
Even when building, the choice of rudder between a transom hung rudder and a balanced rudder can make a difference to how it holds course- and how much effort you need on the tiller...
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Got your PM Stuart. How about this one, about the same size. Picture courtesy Sail Simulator 5.
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I got your reply too. Thanks.
Would Sail sim 5 by any use for learning a bit more about the dynamics of sailing, or is it not accurate enough?
I know I learned a fair bit about flying from MSFS when I was taking flying lessons (in a real plane, before you ask!).
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Stuart,
Provided you know the basics, there is quite a lot you could pick up from SS5.Right down to crew weights and positions etc. I find it quite exhilarating. You sail in the waters round Cabrera Island, south of Majorca.
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Did you get your pilot's license?
Russ K
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Well there are many types of 22footers as someone said...there are tough well built ones then there are pieces or c**p ( not sure if its alloud) I would take a 22 foot scarab :thumbs: But a 22 baja...debaitable also is it a center consol?
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Thanks Traddles. I think I will buy a copy then; it can't do any harm. I'm studying various books on the subject that I bought a couple of years back.
I think the author of these books was Capt Birdseye himself, and he says arrrr me 'earties... He certainly doesn't seem to be talking English... :lol:
RJK: No, I had to stop after 37 sodding hours as business (and the demand for investment) took precedence... That was over 5 years ago. I don't know whether or not those hours still count... But sailing is a better hobby (and cheaper to buy a craft!!!)
EDIT: Capt Matt. I understand what you are saying... We aren't actually sure WHAT make it is at the moment... Just that it's a bilge keel sloop, with a balanced rudder, 16HP aux motor and missing sails
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Well the sails create some problems, a gust of wind from the wrong direction in heavy seas could easily capsize it.
I don't agree with that.
You are saying it like you are an expert but you obviously don't know a thing about it.
A sailing ship has what they call a keel.
A big steel or lead weight that hangs 1.50m-2.50m under the ship.
Even if the wind would capsize the ship, it will pull itself back up straight biceaus the weight of the keel is around 30-40% of the weight of the whole ship.
Even 22ft ships have keels.
I even think that sailing ships are the most stable vessels to go into a storm with.
A motorvessel can capsize, a sailboat can't! (unless if the keel breaks ;D)
And, I think it would certeignly be big enough.
Even a sunday sailor (with a little bit of experience) can cross the channel in a 22ft sailingboat.
I crossed the channel a few times on my parents 32ft sailboat.
And two years ago people with a 25ft boat joined us.
I think there even are races across the atlantic with sailingboats not much bigger then 22ft.
I find it disrespectfull to call people who do something like that nuts!
You should look up to those people. Biceaus it is amasing what they do.
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Edit:
I found the race.
It is called the mini transat.
http://www.minitransat650.com/
They even are only 21ft.
And they are sailed solo!
You gotta have courage to do something like this!
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RJK: No, I had to stop after 37 sodding hours as business (and the demand for investment) took precedence... That was over 5 years ago. I don't know whether or not those hours still count... But sailing is a better hobby (and cheaper to buy a craft!!!)
I don't know how it is over there but I had about 7 or 8 hours in the early 70's and had to quit when my family obligations got more demanding. When I went back in the late 90's my instructor said he could count my original hours if I brought him my original logbook. After all those years I couldn't find it so I had to start over. Got my license in May of 1999 but had to quit flying a few years ago when it got too expensive for me.
Russ K
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I don't agree with that.
You are saying it like you are an expert but you obviously don't know a thing about it.
Quite right Sam. But if you read his posts, right after giving his expert advice, he does admit to never even being on a sailing boat before. ::) TBH I have very little sailing experience and *I* certainly wouldn't attempt it... YET ;)
Got my license in May of 1999 but had to quit flying a few years ago when it got too expensive for me.
Congratulations on actually getting the licence, Russ. I DO still have my log book, but I'm sure I read somewhere if you leave it more than 5 years you lose it... I'm not really bothered about it now; it was just something so I can say I did it- but, as you say, the cost of flying is too high now, so It's put me off starting again.
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I sailed in 2008 with my father. He have Sunwind 21 (21 = 21ft). We sailed from Raahe->Tornio->Helsinki->Stockholm->Gotland->Turku->Vaasa->Umeå->Luleå->Raahe
about 1700nm :P After that i can say 21ft gets little small for 2... If i had do that again i would leave father home :evil:
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Thanks KerNeli.
Thats a fin keel yacht, if I remember? Designed for a fair bit of speed and rougher weather. What sort of speeds did you manage to get out of the boat, in a good wind?
Faster than the speeds I'm told I could expect out of this bilge keeled boat I'm looking at...
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I don't agree with that.
You are saying it like you are an expert but you obviously don't know a thing about it.
A sailing ship has what they call a keel.
A big steel or lead weight that hangs 1.50m-2.50m under the ship.
Even if the wind would capsize the ship, it will pull itself back up straight biceaus the weight of the keel is around 30-40% of the weight of the whole ship.
Even 22ft ships have keels.
I even think that sailing ships are the most stable vessels to go into a storm with.
A motorvessel can capsize, a sailboat can't! (unless if the keel breaks ;D)
And, I think it would certeignly be big enough.
Even a sunday sailor (with a little bit of experience) can cross the channel in a 22ft sailingboat.
I crossed the channel a few times on my parents 32ft sailboat.
And two years ago people with a 25ft boat joined us.
I think there even are races across the atlantic with sailingboats not much bigger then 22ft.
I find it disrespectfull to call people who do something like that nuts!
You should look up to those people. Biceaus it is amasing what they do.
I do not know anything, that is why I was just assuming, so it is almost like a self righting system if I am correct?
I guess that also answers my question on how they can lean so far and not have the weight of the mast tip the vessel over.
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The mast of most small boats built in the last 30 years are made of light weight aluminium (hollow). There's very little weight in them.
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Following on from a discussion in another topic, would anyone here (where is Capt. Traddles? ???) offer an opinion on whether a 22ft yacht- when crewed by someone competent is big enough to take to open water, such as the Straits of Dover?
I've heard people have taken them across the Atlantic but, if this is true, then they're surely clinically insane. ::) Certainly this isn't for me!
Any advice from boat owners or retired mariners (hint, hint, Capt. Traddles ;) ) would be appreciated.
Just my opinion here, since I do have a background:
When I used to live in North Wales, many of us would set off as a "Convoy" to the Isle Of Man TT, there were boats of all shapes and sizes, Yachts, Charter boats, Fishing boats, Dive boats. And yes, there were several yachts which were 22 Ft, and even under. But mainly, there were yachts - As it was a nice run over for them.
There would also be many which would travel down the Menai Straits off the Island of Anglesey, North Wales. And those Straits have got a really bad reputation. Many sailors avoid them, since, you have severe under-currents down that way. We never went down there, if we could help it. But some people did, in whatever size of boat/yacht!
So, to sum it up, I think, if you've got a good sturdy boat, you shouldn't have a problem. But I like nice, wide boats, myself.
This was our old boat (Colvic Watson 24 Motor Cruiser):
(http://i43.tinypic.com/2wozzpv.jpg)
Jack.