Ship Simulator

English forum => Small talk => Topic started by: Capt. Matt on June 06, 2009, 20:26:55

Title: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: Capt. Matt on June 06, 2009, 20:26:55
Hi
I was at south street seaport last weekend in NYC and there was a catamaran ferry (Zephyr) that pulled up and had two red lights next to eachother on the radar arch I know red over red means something happened "red over red captains dead" but red next to red?
Matt
Title: Re: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: llamalord on June 06, 2009, 21:45:26
I have seen two green next to each other on a harbor patrol boat before.
Title: Re: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: TerryRussell on June 06, 2009, 22:08:02
This set of pages contains the answer to life, lights and everything...

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/navrules.htm

PS Red over red means vessel not under control, not "captain dead"...   :doh:
Title: Re: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: Capt. Matt on June 06, 2009, 22:24:16
I know not under control it is a saying  :doh: I just couldnt exactely remember it exactely
EDIT: I couldnt find what I was looking for on that site.
Title: Re: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: llamalord on June 06, 2009, 22:46:51
I remember the lights for Runway approach when flying by

;D
Title: Re: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: matt5674 on June 06, 2009, 22:50:49
He is wanting to know what rd next to red means. I think it means preparing to dock.
Title: Re: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: Capt. Matt on June 06, 2009, 22:58:00
That would make sense because it was when he was pulling up to the dock but I think we can tell that without light signals  :doh:
Title: Re: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: matt5674 on June 06, 2009, 22:59:46
Must be used for first docking, but it must have did that to warn other boats (just in case). I bet a green next to green means departing from dock.
Title: Re: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: Capt. Matt on June 06, 2009, 23:02:14
Ill ask some captain friends my dad doesnt need to use those signals though maybe it is for those extreme capptains that like to show everything like 3 whistles everytime you back up etc etc
Title: Re: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: TerryRussell on June 06, 2009, 23:10:04
Oh, all right then. I'll tell you what red next to red means....

It means that the skipper is breaking the law. No such arrangement si permitted.
Title: Re: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: Capt. Matt on June 06, 2009, 23:11:18
What ???
Dont confuse me more terry I already have swine flu  :doh:
Title: Re: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: TerryRussell on June 06, 2009, 23:21:27
Look at the COLREGS.

Part C Lights and Shapes (Rules 20-31)

Rule 20 states rules concerning lights apply from sunset to sunrise.

Rule 21 gives definitions.

Rule 22 covers visibility of lights - indicating that lights should be visible at minimum ranges (in nautical miles) determined according to the type of vessel.

Rule 23 covers lights to be carried by power-driven vessels underway.

Rule 24 covers lights for vessels towing and pushing.

Rule 25 covers light requirements for sailing vessels underway and vessels under oars.

Rule 26 covers light requirements for fishing vessels.

Rule 27 covers light requirements for vessels not under command or restricted in their ability to manoeuvre.

Rule 28 covers light requirements for vessels constrained by their draught.

Rule 29 covers light requirements for pilot vessels.

Rule 30 covers light requirements for vessels anchored and aground.Rule 31 covers light requirements for seaplanes


Red by red is not a pernitted arrangement.

http://www.bluemoment.com/colregs.html
Title: Re: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: Capt. Matt on June 07, 2009, 00:19:45
Ahhh so why would he have red next to red? Error?  :-\
Title: Re: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: sadsid († 2016) on June 07, 2009, 09:37:15
A vessel not under command shall exhibit:

    *

      (i) two all-round red lights in a vertical line where they can best be seen;
                                                                                                   Eric  :captain:
Title: Re: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: TerryRussell on June 07, 2009, 10:43:20
Yep, but the original question was about two red lights horizontally (side by side) if I  understand correctly.

P.S. according to the COLREGS, a vessel aground but not requiring assistance can also display two red lights vertically. But not horizontally.
Title: Re: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: Ballast on June 07, 2009, 11:00:21
You could have find the anwser to your question in our very own COLREG topic... Tadaaa!!! (http://www.shipsim.com/ShipSimForum/index.php/topic,13434.0.html)
Title: Re: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: Ballast on June 07, 2009, 11:03:36
Yep, but the original question was about two red lights horizontally (side by side) if I  understand correctly.

P.S. according to the COLREGS, a vessel aground but not requiring assistance can also display two red lights vertically. But not horizontally.

When aground, the vessel should also show the appropriate anchor signs, e.g anchor lights or the anchor day sign together with the 'not under command' (N.O.C) lights.
Title: Re: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: TerryRussell on June 07, 2009, 12:44:37
When aground, the vessel should also show the appropriate anchor signs, e.g anchor lights or the anchor day sign together with the 'not under command' (N.O.C) lights.

That is described in Rule 30, of course.
Title: Re: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: TJK on June 07, 2009, 13:26:00
I tooth red over red means  they have a diver out, that are the coast card in Norway and the safety guard ship use if i don't remember wrong but I'm not a expert lol
TJK
Title: Re: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: Capt. Matt on June 07, 2009, 14:52:53
Ballast I looked in your topic hmm tore never heard of that but the situation was a 130 ft approx. catamaran ferry docking on a sunny day now wind blowing with plenty of water etc etc.
Title: Re: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: TJK on June 07, 2009, 15:23:55
Ballast I looked in your topic hmm tore never heard of that but the situation was a 130 ft approx. catamaran ferry docking on a sunny day now wind blowing with plenty of water etc etc.

well as i say, I'm :evil: no expert
Title: Re: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: Capt. Matt on June 07, 2009, 16:42:56
hehe ;)
Title: Re: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: Traddles on June 09, 2009, 11:01:12
Here is another odd one. ??? Where could you see a moored ship showing her navigation lights signifying she is underway? And no, it is not a trick question.
Title: Re: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: Capt. Matt on June 09, 2009, 14:34:14
Not morred about to more
Title: Re: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: Traddles on June 09, 2009, 15:19:04
I said it was not a trick question. The Ship is definitely moored and the 3rd mate has not forgotten to switch off the navigation lights, he knows the ship IS required to have the lights on.
Title: Re: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: Capt. Matt on June 09, 2009, 15:52:35
Oh I didnt see your other post
At a touch and go type of docking?
Title: Re: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: Traddles on June 09, 2009, 16:31:38
No. A perfectly normal mooring has taken place. Clue, a ship is underway if she is not at anchor, made fast to the shore or aground. ???
Title: Re: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: Capt. Matt on June 09, 2009, 17:38:55
dont know?
Title: Re: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: Traddles on June 09, 2009, 22:32:30
OK Capt. Matt, the answer to my question is when a ship is moored at any of the floating landing stages on the River Mersey in England. When a ship is tied up to any of these stages she is not aground, not at anchor and not made fast to the shore, only to the floating stage!!! Not many folk know this odd requirement but even the brand new Ocean Cruise Liner terminal at Liverpool Pierhead is covered by this ruling. The tides on the Mersey are quite high, having a rise and fall of up to 32 feet. So the terminal is floating, the terminal is made fast to the shore, but the ship is not. See picture of MV "Rotterdam" moored at the Pierhead.
Title: Re: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: Capt. Matt on June 09, 2009, 22:46:00
oh cool did not know that ;)  :2thumbs:
Title: Re: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: TerryRussell on June 09, 2009, 23:11:43
That is also true of many of the vessels in the Solent (and elsewhere, no doubt). They are often tied up to floating finger jetties. In many cases, those jetties are only held in position by running staves (which means a hoop round a rod, so that the jetty can rise and fall with the 12 - 15 foot tides we get in the Solent).

Sometimes the jetties are fastened to other jetties which may be affixed to the shore on some moving mechanism.
Title: Re: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: Capt. Matt on June 10, 2009, 00:03:38
thats how they do it on the hudson wioth the ferries well most of them odd ly enough the tides there arent that great but they dock on barges
Title: Re: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: Traddles on June 10, 2009, 11:20:36
I quote:-
Dear Sir
 
You are correct in your assertion that vessels fast alongside at the Liverpool Landing stage, and also Woodside and Seacombe stages continue to exhibit their 'steaming' lights. I'm not sure of the history of this rule, but the requirement is still in place and is enacted through the 'Mersey Collision Regulations', which have precedence over the 'Collision Rules' within port limits.
 
Hope this helps
 
Secretary
Liverpool Pilots

The above is a message I received from the Liverpool Pilots confirming my posts, interesting to know that the Mersey Collision Regulations take precedence over the International Regulations within the limits of Liverpool Port.
I should add that the Twelve Quays ferry terminal at Birkenhead used by the Norfolk Line and Isle of Man Steam Packet Company ferries is also covered by this ruling.
Title: Re: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: Esprit350 on June 10, 2009, 16:51:14
Hi guys,
On the nav lights issue - we have flashing blue lights on vessels in SS08, but no flashing yellow on the hovercraft.  A vessel "running in non-displacement mode" should have a flashing yellow according to COLREGS. 
You certainly get a good look at these when sailing in the Solent as the hovercraft seem to like playing chicken with us yotties!! :)

Title: Re: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: TerryRussell on June 10, 2009, 17:47:14
I could outrun Freedom 90 in my last boat. Had some fun races with one of the captains that I know. He could beat me up the last 100 yards of the beach, though...  :doh:
Title: Re: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: Ballast on June 10, 2009, 20:50:27
Hi guys,
On the nav lights issue - we have flashing blue lights on vessels in SS08, but no flashing yellow on the hovercraft.  A vessel "running in non-displacement mode" should have a flashing yellow according to COLREGS. 
You certainly get a good look at these when sailing in the Solent as the hovercraft seem to like playing chicken with us yotties!! :)



The Freedom 90 do has a yellow flashing light in the game

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v200/DFS_MadFred/POTM%20shipsim%20forum/CushioncraftDecember.jpg)
Photo courtesy by mr. Diamant  :lol:
Title: Re: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: Capt. Matt on June 10, 2009, 20:54:09
hehe I was wondering what those lights were for :doh:
Title: Re: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: Capt. Matt on June 10, 2009, 21:10:13
Fireboat?
Title: Re: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: Capt. Matt on June 10, 2009, 21:14:53
Thats all I got :-\
Title: Re: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: Esprit350 on June 11, 2009, 07:48:37

So there is a yellow!!  I have never noticed it - perhaps the mast is in the way and I have never looked at Freedom from other angles!!

Can't find the flashing red answer - is it in worldwide use or local to the country of Diamant?   I did find that a flashing light has to be more than 120 flashes per minute!
Title: Re: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: Esprit350 on June 11, 2009, 09:54:13
Cool.
I guess they have an identity crisis.   Is it a plane, is it a boat..... no it's........both!

Their Nav lights do not make it into the UK Colregs book!  Perhaps they would be in air law/rules of the air books?
Title: Re: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: Capt. Matt on June 11, 2009, 14:09:44
cool its a boat its a plane , no its a floating plane  :-\ Hahaha :2thumbs:
Title: Re: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: Ballast on June 12, 2009, 18:34:49
Cool.
I guess they have an identity crisis.   Is it a plane, is it a boat..... no it's........both!

Their Nav lights do not make it into the UK Colregs book!  Perhaps they would be in air law/rules of the air books?

The IMO describes it as a WIG (Wing In Ground) plane. Their navigation lights and additional lights are described in rule 23 "Power driven vessels underway" of the COLREG
Title: Re: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: Traddles on June 12, 2009, 22:16:22
Just a little note to add to my previous posts regarding the Mersey Collision Regulations. I received the following today from the Liverpool Pilots. I did not know this one about Tranmere Oil Jetties. Ships have to show anchor lights when moored there. ???
Quote:-  

"Hi Angus

 

Under the Mersey collision regulations a vessel moored at the pier head, Seacombe, Woodside and twelve quays has to exhibit steaming lights as if underway.  The regulations change for vessels at Tranmere as they would have to show anchor lights whilst alongside

 

This does differ from the international regulations for the prevention of collision at sea

 

 

Best regards

 

Julie Oram

Administrator

Liverpool Pilots Ltd."

There are many such strange rulings in different ports around the world.

Angus.
Title: Re: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: TerryRussell on June 13, 2009, 01:01:40
Complicated, indeed. Thanks for the update, Angus  :thumbs:
Title: Re: 2 Red Lights on boat?
Post by: Ballast on June 13, 2009, 15:40:03
Inland vessels on the rivers on the European continent also have to show anchor lights while moored. Barges have anchorlights on starboard side and on portside, to indicate the safe side for passing while at anchor.