Ship Simulator

English forum => Small talk => Topic started by: RMS Canada on December 10, 2008, 17:57:07

Title: No waves created by ships or boats
Post by: RMS Canada on December 10, 2008, 17:57:07
I was playing the mission with Jumbo Javelin and while I was sailing, I noticed some speedboats go by, but producing NO WAVES.  In real life, all types of watercraft produce waves, speedboats and faster small watercraft make the bigger ones.

So, why is there not boat waves in Ship Simulator 2008? 
Title: Re: No waves created by ships or boats
Post by: JHB on December 10, 2008, 18:14:17
Because nobody have so far made a ocean that has physics caused by objects that float on water.
I have not seen one game yet that has this kind of physics. So I'm afraid that this is not possible to make until VSTEP figure out a smart way to make it.
Title: Re: No waves created by ships or boats
Post by: RMS Canada on December 10, 2008, 18:17:50
Because nobody have so far made a ocean that has physics caused by objects that float on water.
I have not seen one game yet that has this kind of physics. So I'm afraid that this is not possible to make until VSTEP figure out a smart way to make it.


I find this unrealistic.  Waves from boats or ships would continue onward (believe me, I live near a lake and I see those boat waves all the time). 
Title: Re: No waves created by ships or boats
Post by: Nathan|C on December 10, 2008, 18:18:58
It would be a nice feature, but i think it would severely decrease performance  :-\

(http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/38/1000194ur7.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Title: Re: No waves created by ships or boats
Post by: RMS Canada on December 10, 2008, 18:20:33
It would be a nice feature, but i think it would severely decrease performance  :-\

(http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/38/1000194ur7.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

Here's how it should look.
Title: Re: No waves created by ships or boats
Post by: Nathan|C on December 10, 2008, 18:21:44
Yes, couldn't find a great picture, Pride of Rotterdam wasn't going too fast that very moment  ::)
Title: Re: No waves created by ships or boats
Post by: JHB on December 10, 2008, 19:03:25
Yeah but things are getting a little complicated when it's computer generated waves we are talking about...and the computer doesn't make that by itself...it needs a lot of programming code and rewriting of the game engine.
Since this wasn't added to SS2008 I guess VSTEP wasn't able to make it. But your observation is not a new one since this have been discussed on the forum previously. :)
Title: Re: No waves created by ships or boats
Post by: ash on December 10, 2008, 19:33:03
there are waves for other craft you have to go into settings and then graphics and turn the waves from other craft on but it slows the PC down a lot
Title: Re: No waves created by ships or boats
Post by: JHB on December 10, 2008, 19:50:53
...which is particle waves...not 3D waves. ;)
Title: Re: No waves created by ships or boats
Post by: ash on December 10, 2008, 19:54:25
yes they are still waves and your own ship doesnt make wake. if anybody has GTA IV here i think the waves made from the boats on there are 3D
Title: Re: No waves created by ships or boats
Post by: Nathan|C on December 10, 2008, 19:55:01
He isn't talking about Wakes he's talking about Waves created by Ships  ;)
Title: Re: No waves created by ships or boats
Post by: JHB on December 10, 2008, 20:33:18
Waves for Dummies http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave)

Yeah..waves..not wakes  ;D

Wake for Dummies http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wake (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wake)
Title: Re: No waves created by ships or boats
Post by: Person264 on December 10, 2008, 20:41:43
At the moment the sea affects the ship (waves up and down) but that's about it. There is the bow splash but that it just some 2d snowflakes so it would be a monumental task to model the waves. I guess stuff like the sea would have to be a 3d mass that reacts with the hull and stuff like that. Even a simple drop of water on a surface is too much for some computers at the moment, there is a good demo of Physx that I used to have but can't find it any more that I think shows a drop of water splashing or something, and it takes quite a lot to do that.
Title: Re: No waves created by ships or boats
Post by: Agent|Austin on December 10, 2008, 20:56:57
This is the awesome wake my Uncles Yamaha Jet Boat makes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqXxJs5WKTw

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3103/2641503556_7cc3a502e7.jpg?v=0)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3184/2641499760_1672a30fc8.jpg?v=0)

I don't have any photos of the wake at 40kns full forward. :d
Title: Re: No waves created by ships or boats
Post by: ash on December 10, 2008, 22:07:39
wake and waves are the same thing if they come from a boat like he is talking about
Title: Re: No waves created by ships or boats
Post by: Agent|Austin on December 10, 2008, 22:21:25
wake and waves are the same thing if they come from a boat like he is talking about
No they are not, waves are made by currents, and wind, and other factors. Wakes are from the water having to move around a disturbance in the water (boat).
Title: Re: No waves created by ships or boats
Post by: ash on December 10, 2008, 22:29:50
yes but it still looks the same. doesnt it?
Title: Re: No waves created by ships or boats
Post by: Agent|Austin on December 10, 2008, 22:39:05
Not really, most waves follow a pattern, and move in the same direction as the energy that is creating it. Wakes usually move perpendicular or opposite to the disturbance.
Title: Re: No waves created by ships or boats
Post by: ash on December 10, 2008, 22:46:12
dont you mean the other way round because you can get rouge waves and a confused sea and wash from a boat allways follows the boat it doesnt go away from it
Title: Re: No waves created by ships or boats
Post by: Agent|Austin on December 10, 2008, 22:48:42
dont you mean the other way round because you can get rouge waves and a confused sea and wash from a boat allways follows the boat it doesnt go away from it
No wakes move away from the direction of the vessel.
Title: Re: No waves created by ships or boats
Post by: Mad_Fred on December 10, 2008, 22:49:56
Waves for Dummies http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave)

Yeah..waves..not wakes  ;D

Wake for Dummies http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wake (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wake)

Heya JHB

This one fits better I think, for waves:  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_surface_wave

The one you linked too is more about waves in a general scientific sense.


Fred

PS; a wake is a wave too.. but not an ocean surface wave. Two different waveforms, but scientifically a similar thing.
Title: Re: No waves created by ships or boats
Post by: ash on December 10, 2008, 22:52:51
a wake does not go in the opposite direction to the boat though does it
Title: Re: No waves created by ships or boats
Post by: Agent|Austin on December 10, 2008, 22:53:12
Heya JHB

This one fits better I think, for waves:  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_surface_wave

The one you linked too is more about waves in a general scientific sense.


Fred

PS; a wake is a wave too.. but not an ocean surface wave. Two different waveforms, but scientifically a similar thing.

Thanks for that link.

I am actually learning about waves in science right now, interesting stuff. :)


@ash

Yes it does, because of the propulsion system water moves from the bow of the vessel, to the stern of the vessel, thus pushing water to the stern, in a reverse direction of the direction the vessel is moving. A wake would move in the opposite direction the vessel's movement is in. If the vessel is at a heading of 001 the wake would be at a heading of 180.

(Boat moving N, wake moving S)
Title: Re: No waves created by ships or boats
Post by: ash on December 10, 2008, 22:56:16
same, electromagnetic waves im learning about.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO take a stern wave for example it follows the boat
Title: Re: No waves created by ships or boats
Post by: Agent|Austin on December 10, 2008, 22:59:24
Here.
Title: Re: No waves created by ships or boats
Post by: Mad_Fred on December 10, 2008, 23:00:16
Thanks for that link.

I am actually learning about waves in science right now, interesting stuff. :)


@ash

Yes it does, because of the propulsion system water moves from the bow of the vessel, to the stern of the vessel, thus pushing water to the stern, in a reverse direction of the direction the vessel is moving. A wake would move in the opposite direction the vessel's movement is in. If the vessel is at a heading of 001 the wake would be at a heading of 180.

(Boat moving N, wake moving S)

Not really, haven't you ever notice the wake's tendency to roll outwards on a diagonal path? Plus it rolls forward, due to the momentum, the water doesn't flow backwards, if you have sat on the shore and seen a ship go by, you see the wake roll in, not away.

It's not that straight forward, but depends on the shape of the ship aswell, and the speed it travels at, etc.
Title: Re: No waves created by ships or boats
Post by: ash on December 10, 2008, 23:01:48
Not really, haven't you ever notice the wake's tendency to roll outwards on a diagonal path? Plus it rolls forward, due to the momentum, the water doesn't flow backwards, if you have sat on the shore and seen a ship go by, you see the wake roll in, not away.

It's not that straight forward, but depends on the shape of the ship aswell, and the speed it travels at, etc.


you agree with me then?
Title: Re: No waves created by ships or boats
Post by: ash on December 10, 2008, 23:03:01
austin are we talking about the same thing here? we are talking about the waves that are produced by the boat are you talking about the foam from the boat?
Title: Re: No waves created by ships or boats
Post by: Mad_Fred on December 10, 2008, 23:04:39
Well to an extend, yes  :)

A wake is not as simple as "boat goes this way, wake goes the other way", that was just what I meant to say.



Title: Re: No waves created by ships or boats
Post by: ash on December 10, 2008, 23:06:29
so we are on the same lines?
Title: Re: No waves created by ships or boats
Post by: Jayshum on December 11, 2008, 00:22:38
As regards how VSTEP could get this into the game, I think it'd be very difficult. Firstly, it's swallow processing power. Secondly, there's no real point to it if we're honest, other than eye-candy (I hate that phrase, but it fit well there!). Thirdly, there's no (or very little) bump-mapping in the game at all, so to program that into the current engine, well I'd rather not imagine how unstable that'd be! I'd rather VSTEP concentrate on something else to be honest (bug fixing etc).

Just randomly, I've listed some games with water that reacts very well (not perfectly, but really convincing), below.
Halo 3, Gears of War 2, Kameo, GTA4 (although there's no foam-effect), Half-Life 2.
GTA4 is the only one with boats, and the way the water reacts isn't realistic, it's more artistic-license.

In my opinion, life-like looking, realistically-reacting wakes will be something that makes your jaw drop in 5 years time. As for the present, it'd require you to spend an obscene amount of money on a monstrously powerful PC.
Title: Re: No waves created by ships or boats
Post by: Agent|Austin on December 11, 2008, 01:57:54
@Jayshum

DC:AS also had 3D water with realistic wakes.
Title: Re: No waves created by ships or boats
Post by: Sam on December 11, 2008, 17:26:12
Waves for Dummies http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave)

AARGH, no!
All the formulas are comming back, I can't stand them anymore!
Just had a fysics exam last monday all about waves.

 ;) ;D
Title: Re: No waves created by ships or boats
Post by: RMS Canada on December 11, 2008, 18:03:48
He isn't talking about Wakes he's talking about Waves created by Ships  ;)

Thank You, Nathan C. 

To the people: this topic isn't about natural waves; it's about "man made waves", in other words, waves created by ships and boat during high speeds. 
Title: Re: No waves created by ships or boats
Post by: Agent|Austin on December 11, 2008, 20:03:00
Thank You, Nathan C. 

To the people: this topic isn't about natural waves; it's about "man made waves", in other words, waves created by ships and boat during high speeds. 
Also known as a WAKE.
Title: Re: No waves created by ships or boats
Post by: Mad_Fred on December 11, 2008, 20:09:51
 ;D

Now that everyone knows what everything is called, what was the point of all of this again?  ::)

Title: Re: No waves created by ships or boats
Post by: Sam on December 11, 2008, 20:12:21
during high speeds. 

Why? Ships make waves no matter what their speed is.

I think a bulkship going 12 knots makes bigger waves than a motoryacht going 35knots.
Title: Re: No waves created by ships or boats
Post by: Agent|Austin on December 11, 2008, 20:29:15
Why? Ships make waves no matter what their speed is.

I think a bulkship going 12 knots makes bigger waves than a motoryacht going 35knots.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVTDOiVLUk0&feature=PlayList&p=B7221A28DB8A1E79&index=13

You can kind of see here how the waves are 3D.

I'll get a video of the wake with 0 waves, it actually makes a 3D wake like mentioned. :)