Ship Simulator
English forum => Ship Simulator 2008 => Topic started by: groennegaard on July 16, 2007, 00:16:31
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EDIT: Continued from discussion of P&O Berth at Rotterdam
No... not quite. I will put the bow to starboard to get it out... ( :D ) then the starboard propeller ahead and the port propeller astern, and finally the rudders hard to port.
(http://www.groennegaard.net/jacob/images/PoR-Dep.JPG)
The arrows show movement - not thrust!
Setting the starboard propeller astern and the port propeller ahead will swing the stern towards the quay - and we do not want that. It is almost like driving a tank with two levers... :D
Regards
groennegaard
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Thanks very much for that. It is appreciated.
OK... So I was actually talking about putting the ship through the quay. :-[
That all makes sense now you put it like that. Having been on the bridge of a large ship leaving port, I really do have respect for you and your colleagues. Damned sure I couldn't do it.
Stu
EDIT: I've driven a tank. It is nothing like that. Driving a tank is easy. And if you hit something, you don't worry... The driver of whatever you hit worries instead.
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Yes, but the rudder only works if it has fluid moving over it. In this case at slow speed, it isn't by forward movement. Only by propellor thrust. Problem is: lots of thrust= forward movement, which may not be what you want.
Take the mission to take PoR out of the berth; If you wind the engines up to get thrust, you will go through the harbour wall.
Stu
I agree with groennegaard, but as a further note, and as a comment to your earlier post -- when the ship is stationary a quick blast of throttle with the rudder hard over has almost no effect on forward motion but a considerable effect on swinging the stern. If this is not the case in SS08, then there is a problem in the dynamics.
Cheers,
Michael
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EDIT: I've driven a tank. It is nothing like that. Driving a tank is easy. And if you hit something, you don't worry... The driver of whatever you hit worries instead.
He he.. :D I believe you. However, the tank thing was meant as a memory help to remember which way the ship will turn.
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I have been on that ship.
And have seen that at the ship to the back a rope sits.
This has been confirmed to a pile and helps the ship to twist.
(what with difficulty to explain, I hope that the pictures helps)
(http://aycu24.webshots.com/image/22343/2003388606456454046_rs.jpg)
(http://aycu12.webshots.com/image/21571/2001959111367992322_rs.jpg)
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I hope the picture below will help answer the question above as to how a short burst of ahead power can be used to turn the vessel, without gathering significant headway.
The majority of large conventional ferries built today have what are variously known as Hi-lift or Becker rudders etc, and these have a large primary rudder , onto the trailing edge of which is attached a secondary surface, a 'tab' of sorts. Any rudder angle setting ordered is duplicated by BOTH the primary and secondary surfaces - ie. setting 20degrees of helm will move the main surface to that angle, and the trailing tab will then move 20degrees relative to the main surface, effectively giving 40degrees of helm. The ferries with which I am familiar have a rudder limit of 45degrees, effectively enabling thrust from the propeller to be vectored through 90degrees, thus having maximum turning effect with very little ahead movement.
Having possibly confused you with that 'description' I will let this photo do the rest of the explaining - it is of Irish Ferries' Ulysses when she was last in drydock, and it shows her rudders hard over to port. Imagine if you were standing directly astern of the prop (apologies for not having a photo to illustrate this!), you would in actual fact see only the tips of the blades, as the rudder diverts the vast majority of all thrust to the port side.
Hence, you can see why stern thrusters are less common than bow thrusters, simply because a similar job can be done with the equipment already in place, and it saves on the purchase and fitting of expensive thrusters!
I hope that has answered more questions than it has thrown up, but feel free to ask and I'll do my best to answer them and find a photo to illustrate. 8)
(http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/9402/dscf5751ur3.jpg)
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I took 30 minutes :-[
It is a bit tricky. That walkway to the mooring point on the starboard quarter is a bit too close to the ship and its akward to get past.
Stu
We might be talking about two seperate missions. I was leaving and I think you ware entering, correct?
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It looks hard, yes- but I don't think the other end in Santcruzzi looks much fun either (Have you seen the underwater obstructions buoys at the berth?)
I can't see why they won't use the stern thrusters- although I won't argue the point- seems a waste of money installing and 'ferrying' around heavy equipment for little use.
Hi Stuart,
I hadn't actually seen the underway obstruction buoys at Santurtzi but possibly that is because I hadn't been looking out for them! That's what happens when you spend too much time observing events on the bridge and not enough time watching what they are actually doing up there! None the less you are definitely right, manoeuvring there can't be easy either (especially not with a strong wind) as they don't really give you much space. Will look out for those buoys next time... :)
There is lots of good information in this thread so thanks to all for that. Was asking a few mariners about the point of the stern thrusters a few months ago and remember one person saying that at 4 knots they are approximately 50% effective, whilst for anything over 8 knots they have barely any effect on the ships course.
Groennegaard, interesting point you made regarding non existent stern thrusters on passenger ships - I think this entirely depends on what type of passenger vessel it is, its age and gross tonnage. We must remember that many new cruise ships in particular have "Azipods" which could carry out the same job as stern thrusters if required - thus, new ships with this technology don't need stern thrusters but do posses 2/3 bow thrusters.
As one person put it earlier in the year stern thrusters on ships with propellers are just another "superfluous gadget" and are just something else to go wrong - nevertheless there may be some occasions when they come in useful. Some ports do not allow officers to use thrusters within X metres of the berth and so have to rely on tugs, whilst others insist that you have a tug even if it just stays there doing nothing.
Argghhh, done too much research into all this...really must get a life... :P
James
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No James, you carry on with your research.
I'm fascinated by this. People keep comparing rudder/props to the airflow over aircraft wings... Well, I'm half way through getting my pilots licence, and the theoretics of flight (and the learning to fly) is much less complicated than manouvering a 30,000 tonne ship to within 1/4 inch of the berth.
Anyway, we're getting away from the media part of this forum. I for one am fascinated and I'm sure others will be.
Stu
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No... not quite. I will put the bow to starboard to get it out... ( :D ) then the starboard propeller ahead and the port propeller astern, and finally the rudders hard to port.
If I may offer an addendum in the interests of pedantry ;D : What the port propeller is doing here is keeping the ship from moving ahead, which it would eventually want to do if one had only the starboard prop or had only a single screw. The idea is to get all the various thrusts to combine into a single vector away from the wharf (as indicated by the red arrow).
Having possibly confused you with that 'description' I will let this photo do the rest of the explaining - it is of Irish Ferries' Ulysses when she was last in drydock, and it shows her rudders hard over to port. Imagine if you were standing directly astern of the prop (apologies for not having a photo to illustrate this!), you would in actual fact see only the tips of the blades, as the rudder diverts the vast majority of all thrust to the port side.
Hence, you can see why stern thrusters are less common than bow thrusters, simply because a similar job can be done with the equipment already in place, and it saves on the purchase and fitting of expensive thrusters!
Again in the interests of pedantry (oh no, not again ::) ): it is not the thrust that is diverted to port, but the water flow, and with the rudder hard over to port as shown the stern would be kicked to starboard and there is nothing left to drive the ship forward (which is where I started some many posts back but obviously with not enough explanation).
Cheers,
Michael
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This is really interesting. I know very little of boats/ships, I've only taken a small boat out once and thats it. I'm slowly starting to lern the names of front/back left/right of ship now but it's slightly confusing as there seems to be different names for the same thing? Stern is the back, Bow is the front. That I do know. Can anyone go through all these names? I feel stupid asking for them but it's slightly confusing so I will take my chance of making a fool out of myself :-[
Strangely I'm born by the sea unfortently it wasen't exactly lying by the water but a bit inlands so I never really saw that much ships.
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Hello Stu,
I feel your lessons to fly airplanes inspired the title. ;)
A very good introduction to manoeuvring ships can be found here:
http://www.ocp.tudelft.nl/mt/journee/Files/Lectures/ShipHydromechanics_Intro.pdf
or by googling "ship hydrodynamics MT519", and reading at least chapter 4.
Forget the formulas, or better, read and forget them (-> cut & run?). 8)
If forgot also the references of a good "syllabus" of USCG, perhaps Michael knows about it?
;D
Regards,
Luc
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Hello Luc
It is really a fascinating subject. Whilst I had a good scientific reason for thinking a certain combination of propellor/rudder would achieve the result I wanted, I was exactly the opposite of what should have been.
When explained by Groeenegaard why- I realised my logic was 100% flawed. I tell you, airplanes are so simple by comparison. Point it at your destination and just go. (OK landing first time was not so easy)
Thanks for the weblink. I shall look tomorrow. Too tired to concentrate now (happens when you get to my age ;) )
Stu
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If forgot also the references of a good "syllabus" of USCG, perhaps Michael knows about it?
;D
Regards,
Luc
The USCG has a good manual on handling small craft -- I'll dig the link out tomorrow.
Chers,
Michael
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Now this is a very intresting thread. Much can be learned here for people with no or just few knowledge of "driving" ships!
Stuart: My geus is, you think flying is easier than driving a ship, because you can fly. I can't fly in real life, but i do know how to get from A to B in FSX. And trust me, handling a ship (of what size, theory is all the same, more or less) is much easier. Planes have much more "rudders" to stay on course and height. Rudder, Aillerons, etc. Ever tryied to taxi a plain sideways, or better, backwards? Can't do, right? Well, not without reverse-thrust. ;)
On ships with a prop/rudder-conversion it's easy, you only have 1 rudder. Offcourse you can have more rudders (1 for every prop, 2 for every prop, i myself have a Hitzler-patent, 3 rudders and 1 prop), but you can turn them with one handle/joystick.
Pay attention on the movement of the plane, if you taxi next time. What happens if you give a bit forward throtlle and move your rudder hard port? You will go left. Allthough the prop on a conventional plane is in front, the thrust (wind?) goes backwards, hits the rudder (like water with ships) and the thrust/wind goes to port. Resulting in the planes tail moving to starboard!But the nose is going to port.
I hope, this is understandeble for you (and anyone else), since i'm Dutch, so my English might be a bit "strange"?
Like i said, i have a single prop with 3 rudders, the Hitzler-patent. 1 small rudder in centre of prop, 2 bigger ones besides the small one. When hard port, the port-rudder is a bit more over then 90 degrees, the midlle-rudder is 90 degrees, and the starboard-rudder is less then 90 degrees, resulting in a thrust-cut-off, bending all the water to port. When my rudder-patent is correctly adjusted, i can turn my ship without bow-thruster on the spot. With full throtlle (800 bhp for a 76 mtr long/8,2 mtr wide ship).
It would even go a bit backwards, if i don't watch out.
Hope this add's something to this thread. ;)
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So do you "drive" a boat and "pilot" a ship? What are the proper terms for taking the helm of each?
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Erm....well, i would like to know that to, how it is best said in English... :-[
In Dutch we call it "varen", but i don't beleive there is a propper translation for it.
I just call it drive or sail or pilot in Englisch. Most people understand. ;)
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EDIT: Continued from discussion of P&O Berth at Rotterdam
No... not quite. I will put the bow to starboard to get it out... ( :D ) then the starboard propeller ahead and the port propeller astern, and finally the rudders hard to port.
(http://www.groennegaard.net/jacob/images/PoR-Dep.JPG)
The arrows show movement - not thrust!
Setting the starboard propeller astern and the port propeller ahead will swing the stern towards the quay - and we do not want that. It is almost like driving a tank with two levers... :D
Regards
groennegaard
Its the same as driving a single screw boat..unless this ferry has bow thrusters? I dont have 2008 yet so i dont know.
You just do what you said kicking your stern out away from the jetty and then back away,once clear,you can then manouver and swing the ferry where you wish to go.
But i would have thought this size ship would have bow thrusters to get into that size of space in the photo..
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Its the same as driving a single screw boat..unless this ferry has bow thrusters? I dont have 2008 yet so i dont know.
You just do what you said kicking your stern out away from the jetty and then back away,once clear,you can then manouver and swing the ferry where you wish to go.
But i would have thought this size ship would have bow thrusters to get into that size of space in the photo..
The PRIDE OF ROTTERDAM has 2 Fincantieri 2,000kW bow thrusters. However, in SS08 you can only operate them together as one unit. I have never heard of a ferry of this size which did not have at least one bow thruster. Usually they have 2 bow thrusters.
Regards
groennegaard
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Ah ha!. Well its the same way of operating this ferry, you would put your bow thruster to starboard so its pushing the ships head away from the jetty.
This will cause the stern to swing into the pier. To overcome this you put the ships wheel into the pier and the starboard engine slightly ahead and the port slightly astern so it comes away sideways.
Attached is a picture of how to do it in ship sim 2006
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Well, I allready used this technique since I started playing SS06.
It is verry effective for the patrol boat but with bigger ships it doesn't work so well.
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It is verry effective for the patrol boat but with bigger ships it doesn't work so well.
That was for SS06. The dynamics have improved since then and I think it works quite well for the PoR (compared to the SS06 Mega Yacht and the Ocean Star). I'm still not happy about the rudder effect though... ::) But I think this is discussed somewhere else.
Regards
groennegaard
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Hey, there is no difference between the manoeuvres! Both vessels (Patrol and Pride) are using the same engine, rudder and thruster settings. (Guess the Patrol screenshot was mine.)
Cheers
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Well, I allready used this technique since I started playing SS06.
It is verry effective for the patrol boat but with bigger ships it doesn't work so well.
This is not my experience. The technique works with all the vessels in 06 -- of course the amount of throttle vs. the amount of thruster has to be adjusted to the circumstances (eg. different ships, onshore wind, etc).
Cheers,
Michael
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Eemspoort,
You may well be right in what you say. (I haven't finished my flying lessons yet... :( ) so maybe I find flying simple because I have experience.
Since Groeenegaard has explained the physics of manouvering- from a 'real world' perspective, it all makes total sense. However, flying a airplane is still very easy. Admittedly, I am talking about a single engined Slingsby Firefly and not an A380!
Put this way- 50 hours and you can be qualified with a pilots licence (single engined, VFR only/ non instrument). I think it takes more than 50 hours to qualify as a ship captain...
Stu
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This is not my experience. The technique works with all the vessels in 06 -- of course the amount of throttle vs. the amount of thruster has to be adjusted to the circumstances (eg. different ships, onshore wind, etc).
Cheers,
Michael
Totally right,the bigger vessels are just slower to manouver with this. If you have the Single engine vessels such as the container ships in SS06 you change it slightly.
You put your bowthruster on just a tad and you put your rudder (Wheel) into wherever you are coming away from, you then give it splashes in ahead and astern to bring yourself off. If your head (bow) is coming away too fast you can switch it off,then back on,then off and so on.
In real life where i work on the River Thames in London, we have different tides,either Ebb (Flowing out of london) or Flood (flooding into London). With single screw passenger boats that i sometimes operate, we use the tide to do the work for you.
You can put your wheel out away from the pier and give it a little splash Ahead which brings your head (bow) out away from the pier. You then knock it into nutral gear and let the tide get inside the head(bow) and push the boat away.
Then again the game still has many improvements to meet real life movements but i feel its pretty realistic.
Hope this helps
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Eemspoort,
You may well be right in what you say. (I haven't finished my flying lessons yet... :( ) so maybe I find flying simple because I have experience.
Since Groeenegaard has explained the physics of manouvering- from a 'real world' perspective, it all makes total sense. However, flying a airplane is still very easy. Admittedly, I am talking about a single engined Slingsby Firefly and not an A380!
Put this way- 50 hours and you can be qualified with a pilots licence (single engined, VFR only/ non instrument). I think it takes more than 50 hours to qualify as a ship captain...
Stu
Yep, your right! ;) I don't know what the qualifications are for see-going captains, but for inland vessels you need a minimum of (i thought) 4 years of "sailing-time". This means, 4 times 180 days in your "Dienstboekje". That is a personal log for entering your sail-days. However, this has nothing to do with actually sailing/pilotting a vessel!
Offcourse you need to go to school for getting your "schippers-diploma" (inland-captain-diploma?). If you have this diploma, and the apropriate sail-time, you can pick up your "Groot-Vaarbewijs" (drivers-license for inland-ships).
So, you don't need any practical exames what so ever! Strange, huh... I've meated people how had there "drivers-license", and wanted to get there Radar-diploma, and didn't know what to do with the radar-simulator! They couldn't pilot a vessel!!! So the teacher (how teached me on school, so i knew the guy ;D) asked me if i could give those fellas a speed-cousre in piloting a vessel! That was a great laugh, offcourse, however i don't like to meat them on the waters in the fog... ::) Allthough, they did get there Radar-diplomas, so i must have done something good there. ;)
I myself took the long road. I have been to school for a total of 7 years, this was all related to inland-shipping.
Because of this, i had several points i didn't had to graduate on for my Skipper-diploma and "drivers-license".
But i had more advantages counting for me, because i was born and raised on inland-ships. :D
Now i have all my papers, accept for one. I don't have the "Rijn-patent" (drivers-license for sailing the Rhine), so i cant sail the Rhine without a Pilot. This is a highly questionable peice of paper, since there are much more difficult rivers to sail. Oh well, that's not interesting for this thread. ;)
But! If you only want to sail a ship smaller then 20 meters, and/or slower then 13 km/h, you need the "Klein-Vaarbweijs" (drivers-license for Small Ships). This is a peice of paper, easy to get for most people.
So it's kinda like flying planes. If you only want to fly a Cessna, for instance, you are on the right way with your lessons.
But if you whant to fly the A380, that's a totally different kind of cake! You'll need more and other lessons to take, before you have the apropriate papers and qualifications to fly that kind of giants. ;)
Hope this answers some questions. :)
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For handling powerboats, I recommend "Chapman Piloting and Seamanship, 64th Edition", by Elbert S. Maloney, 928 pages (available at Amazon for $21.85 USD). For handling of larger ships, I recommend Maine Maritime Academy, or Annapolis, or Ship Simulator 2008.
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I recommend Maine Maritime Academy, or Annapolis, or Ship Simulator 2008.
Oh Gosh!....don't get the US Navy involved in ship handling!...sorry it's just too easy of a target :)
groennegaard nice posts. This is so far my favorite berth, too bad the wind doesn't affect the vessels and there's no current to make it really interesting. :P
ps - no offense to any navy guys here...just some good spirited fun ;)
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When I was doing this in SS08 I put my bow thruster starboard. I keep the line on my starboard bow connected and then port prop ahead and the starboard prop astern to get as much force to turn it starboard as I can and then once I am about 3/4 there I let the mooring line out and put both props ahead and rudders starboard...
Confusing but yes
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I made a little step by step movie. if requested i can make one with how to with 1 propeller and bow thrusters, 2 propellers and no bow thruster.
HEres the movie: http://youtube.com/watch?v=TQL3ij8ogXc
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I too find flying simple, I've only flown in a professional simulator, not a real aircraft.
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I hope the picture below will help answer the question above as to how a short burst of ahead power can be used to turn the vessel, without gathering significant headway.
The majority of large conventional ferries built today have what are variously known as Hi-lift or Becker rudders etc, and these have a large primary rudder , onto the trailing edge of which is attached a secondary surface, a 'tab' of sorts. Any rudder angle setting ordered is duplicated by BOTH the primary and secondary surfaces - ie. setting 20degrees of helm will move the main surface to that angle, and the trailing tab will then move 20degrees relative to the main surface, effectively giving 40degrees of helm. The ferries with which I am familiar have a rudder limit of 45degrees, effectively enabling thrust from the propeller to be vectored through 90degrees, thus having maximum turning effect with very little ahead movement.
Having possibly confused you with that 'description' I will let this photo do the rest of the explaining - it is of Irish Ferries' Ulysses when she was last in drydock, and it shows her rudders hard over to port. Imagine if you were standing directly astern of the prop (apologies for not having a photo to illustrate this!), you would in actual fact see only the tips of the blades, as the rudder diverts the vast majority of all thrust to the port side.
Hence, you can see why stern thrusters are less common than bow thrusters, simply because a similar job can be done with the equipment already in place, and it saves on the purchase and fitting of expensive thrusters!
I hope that has answered more questions than it has thrown up, but feel free to ask and I'll do my best to answer them and find a photo to illustrate. 8)
(http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/9402/dscf5751ur3.jpg)
Wonderful Pic! :) My apoligies if you already said this, but are those blades variable pitch? (Im a bit of a thikee when it comes to this kinda thing! ??? 8))
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I like that picture. I've always wanted to go in a dry dock under the hull of a ship (PREFERABLY whilst it hasn't got any water in it...) just to get a real sense of scale of a ship up close. You don't get the sense of scale when it's sitting in the water.
I don't suppose there's a dockyard manager here is there? :)
Stu
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The propellers have indeed variable pitch, you can identify it easily at the hub, the roots of the blades that can rotate, and that the pitch is at or close to zero on the picture.
Also, you can see that the two propellers are "supra convergents, ie in forward the port screw is right handed, the starboard one left handed.
Regards,
Luc
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Thanks for that, Luc! Ill know what to look out for in future! :)
Thanks, Sky
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Just to clear things up. On my post earlier I meant my stern mooring line not my bow...
Agent ^_^
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Not to sure about commercial ships,but on naval vessels(UK) to get the stern out ,one would put a line (Spring)out from close to the bow to a bollard on the jetty about midships,and go ahead (slow).making sure you had tons of fenders on the foc;sle.likewise to get the bow out one would reverse the procedure from the quarterdeck..With all the modern technology I guess they don;t do it any more.Also of interest back in the forties they had motor boats fitted with what was known as Kitchener gear..which consisted of two buckets? either side of the prop which could be opened or closed completely,with the engine at constant full revs,just by altering the buckets from full open to fully closed you could go at any speed and astern (buckets closed) Hope this is of interest or maybe jog some memories L. Djx 846502.
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Interesting. Is that for all sizes of ships? I've seen Warships docking in Portsmouth and they use a military tug to dock and when departing.
Admittedly I haven't seen many so maybe It's just been coincidence. I remember seeing the Ark Royal docking with 3 tugs. Don't think they'd manouver THAT my tieing lines to the bow :)
Stu
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No I don;t think it applied to the larger ships mainly destroyers and frigates and smaller.L
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That really surprises me. I know a modern destroyer/frigate isn't as heavy as the older ships of days gone by, but even then, the stress on the ship as it pivots round must be enormous.
Navy cutbacks... ;)
Stu
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I've been watching this topic for a while now :)
The only boat (if you can really call it a boat) that I can pilot is a Canoe ::) Not the best vessel in the world, but great fun ;D
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"drive a boat..." ::) That would never have come out of my mouth... :P That is the truth even though the topic has my name on it... ;)
Regards
groennegaard
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Ah but come on DJM. Don't be modest. Is that an ocean going canoe?
Stu
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"drive a boat..." ::) That would never have come out of my mouth... :P That is the truth even though the topic has my name on it... ;)
Regards
groennegaard
LOL, I should have maybe said 'paddle' a Canoe......hmm, typo's eh :-[
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Ah but come on DJM. Don't be modest. Is that an ocean going canoe?
Stu
ROFL, I wouldn't wanna try that out, it was bad enough on a river/weir :o
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"drive a boat..." ::) That would never have come out of my mouth... :P That is the truth even though the topic has my name on it... ;)
Regards
groennegaard
No, sorry... When the topic was split from the original P&O berth topic, your's was the first post so it automatically assigned your name.
It's just a phrase. I talk about driving my airplane, as jus slang talk for convenience. Sorry if that offends your professional etiquette :) I shall see if it can be changed.
Stu
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ROFL, I wouldn't wanna try that out, it was bad enough on a river/weir :o
I had to laugh up the canal a few weeks back, this couple on a 40ft narrow boat were playing at ships. "helm 2 degrees to port dear"... "stand by on bow thruster dear..." "prepare forward mooring line dear"... Good God it was a CANAL barge not the QM2
You should have heard them they were SO serious. Bless.
Stu
EDIT: Title changed in menu... Now reads 'how to MANOUVER a boat/ship/canoe'
Hope you like the canoe reference DJM :P
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I had to laugh up the canal a few weeks back, this couple on a 40ft narrow boat were playing at ships. "helm 2 degrees to port dear"... "stand by on bow thruster dear..." "prepare forward mooring line dear"... Good God it was a CANAL barge not the QM2
You should have heard them they were SO serious. Bless.
Stu
EDIT: Title changed in menu... Now reads 'how to MANOUVER a boat/ship/canoe'
Hope you like the canoe reference DJM :P
LOL @ Canoe reference :P
To be honest, if I ever sailed a 'proper' vessel, I would most likely avoid nautical terms ::)
I'd be like 'Left a bit, right a bit, straighten her up.....BANG!!' :P
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No, sorry... When the topic was split from the original P&O berth topic, your's was the first post so it automatically assigned your name.
It's just a phrase. I talk about driving my airplane, as jus slang talk for convenience. Sorry if that offends your professional etiquette :) I shall see if it can be changed.
LOL ;D It would take a lot more to offend me but thanks anyway... :)
Regards
groennegaard
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I'd be like 'Left a bit, right a bit, straighten her up.....BANG!!' :P
Oh right. So you were once the skipper of the Pride of Aquitaine?
Stu
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Oh right. So you were once the skipper of the Pride of Aquitaine?
Stu
I don't even know what that is lol
I've just decided on a new name for myself, for when Multiplayer is released ;)
DJMindThatBoatWhatBoat[SPLAT]
So, watch out when I'm on the water guys, you thought 'Jaws' was bad, you ain't seen nothing yet :P
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I don't even know what that is lol
I've just decided on a new name for myself, for when Multiplayer is released ;)
DJMindThatBoatWhatBoat[SPLAT]
So, watch out when I'm on the water guys, you thought 'Jaws' was bad, you ain't seen nothing yet :P
The Pride of Aquitaine was a lovely ship. Far too big for her oiginal Ostende-Dover route. 31000 tonne. Proper deep sea canoe. Now operates with LD lines and is leased from Stena.
I like your new name. I will remind you of that post and I expect you to use it now!
Have to laugh at that ship. Mr Stena bought it for Mrs Stena... For an anniversary present... WHat the hell happened to a new toaster or microwave etc or romantic holiday. He buys her a SHIP???
Stu
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No James, you carry on with your research.
I'm fascinated by this. People keep comparing rudder/props to the airflow over aircraft wings... Well, I'm half way through getting my pilots licence, and the theoretics of flight (and the learning to fly) is much less complicated than manouvering a 30,000 tonne ship to within 1/4 inch of the berth.
Anyway, we're getting away from the media part of this forum. I for one am fascinated and I'm sure others will be.
Stu
I do believe that driving a small plane is easier than drive a huge boat ;)
I don't know plane and boat in Real Life, just tried simulation. But i have some experience in RC plane and simulation.
I know some theory too, i have the "user manual" of an A320 Airbus Plane.
Simulation, plane or boat, are far from reality.
Huge plane are not that hard to pilot, because they are heavily assisted by computers. The computers on modern plane won't let you do anything dangerous. In fact, a commercial plane could fly alone, without human. (yes, landing too !!)
Let's talk about the theory for flying and landing a huge plane with one dead engine and, suddenly, driving a boat will seem really easy :)
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I think that to say a commercial aircraft can fly and land itself without human interaction is a little over simplified.
It is true to say that ILS has evolved into automatic landing. But few planes are equipped. It was actually a DeHavilland project back 40 years ago, so you have to give them time...
The computers help the pilots navigate and will even interrupt control movements it thinks are dangerous. I understand that many pilots distrust these computers and override them routinely.
It has also been suggested that computers don't rect correctly in an emergency. I'm sure they will get better. Have a look a youtube. the first airbus automatic landing... it crashed. The computer failed to manage engine throttle correctly.
Stu