Topic: Manouvering the Orient Star (Read 16468 times)

Jaw · « **on:** April 05, 2011, 17:41:40 »

Hi guys,

I have tried searching the forum for tips on how to control the Orient Star, but without any luck. Now I hope some of you can explain me how to control the vessel!

The thing is that with the implementation of the new steering wheel I don't really get it anymore. As far as I know the steering wheel should be for navigating on ocean passages - working like a conventional rudder with +/- 35Âº and then the azipods 360Âº rotation for port manouvering. Am I wrong?

But then the problem is, that both the azipods and the steering wheel is affected during manouvers. I guess it should be possible to put the azipods on 90Âº angle and then the vessel should be doing 0 knots, but for me the ship moves ahead with 2-3 knots. How come?

Does the ship have two or three azipods? (A third one could explain my problem!)

Thanks for any input!

/Jaw

cpt.nordstrand · « **Reply #1 on:** April 05, 2011, 18:23:53 »

the steering on orient star confused me at the start to

the queen mary 2 have two azipods, one fixed proppeller
the oasis of the seas have three, but it have a wheel wich makes the azipods go max 40 degrees when manouvering at open sea

the number of azipods is different from ship to ship

Jaw · « **Reply #2 on:** April 05, 2011, 18:28:19 »

Thanks for your reply, cpt.

What you explain makes perfectly sense. However, then they use either azipods OR the fixed pitch, right? Not both during port manouvering?! Or at least it should be possible to control the revs or pitch of the propeller.

cpt.nordstrand · « **Reply #3 on:** April 05, 2011, 18:29:23 »

i think they only use the azipod controller when manouvering in port

vin_sun · « **Reply #4 on:** April 05, 2011, 19:29:12 »

Hello Jaw,

Please read this post and there seems to be some useful tips.

http://80.95.161.114/shipsim/forum/index.php/topic,23473.msg311379.html#msg311379

You should also read the other posts in this thread. I hope you will find them useful.

Regards
vin_sun

eviss · « **Reply #5 on:** April 05, 2011, 19:56:29 »

Hello Jaw,

"mvsmith" has writen a manual; I think you better read it first, it helps to understand !

http://80.95.161.114/shipsim/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2886.0;attach=72003

You can find all kind of usefull tips or directions, if you search the forum / here is an example, where I found it !

http://80.95.161.114/shipsim/forum/index.php/topic,2886.msg28895.html#msg28895

Good luck.

vr. gr. / kind regards Erik

Jaw · « **Reply #6 on:** April 05, 2011, 20:12:09 »

Thanks for your replys. Unfortunately the manual is off limits to me. (But I'm pretty sure that the manual is written before this extra steering wheel was added).

However the problem for me is not to understand the azipods. The problem is, that the steering wheel (which is connected to what?? An extra propeller/azipod or maybe a CPP/fixed pitch propeller?) is following the control of one of the azipods. If with my mouse put both azipods in 90 degr. I still have a forward thrust of 2-3 knots. That can't be right? It means that a third azipod/propeller has been added to the vessel which is impossible to control.

Furthermore if one azipod is put in 180 (should create an aft thrust) the ship is stopped. Again there is a forward uncontrollable thrust.

vin_sun · « **Reply #7 on:** April 05, 2011, 20:19:39 »

Quote from: Jaw on April 05, 2011, 20:12:09

However the problem for me is not to understand the azipods. The problem is, that the steering wheel (which is connected to what??

Hello Jaws,

Please read this . It should clarify your doubt.

http://80.95.161.114/shipsim/forum/index.php/topic,23411.msg309989.html#msg309989

and

http://80.95.161.114/shipsim/forum/index.php/topic,23906.msg316431.html#msg316431

Regards
vin_sun

vin_sun · « **Reply #8 on:** April 05, 2011, 20:23:07 »

Quote from: Jaw on April 05, 2011, 20:12:09

Unfortunately the manual is off limits to me. (But I'm pretty sure that the manual is written before this extra steering wheel was added).

Yes, that is more applicable to the cruise liner in Ship Simulator 2008. As I see you do not have SS 2008

Regards
vin_sun

Jaw · « **Reply #9 on:** April 05, 2011, 20:33:56 »

Oh, now it makes sense!

http://80.95.161.114/shipsim/forum/index.php/topic,23411.msg310798.html#msg310798 - there is an override mechanism. So that trying to manouver the vessel in azipod mode with your keyboard is impossible since it is impossible to handle "rudder 1"/port azipod without handling the steering wheel, which then overrides the azipod.

So, the only way to control the azipods alone is to use the mouse. I just tested and it actually seems to be true.

But I still don't think it is logical

In the real world there must be some kind of indication/selection of which mode you want to use...

Thanks!

saltydog · « **Reply #10 on:** April 05, 2011, 20:42:55 »

I'm also a bit confused by the wheel on the White Marlin..

Ballast · « **Reply #11 on:** April 05, 2011, 20:45:27 »

@ Jaw

You can configure the set up for each pod seperatly though, both trottle and direction.

I manoeuvrer the St. Pauli with only 1 pod since its very easy to apply too much thrust on a small vessel that size

Also during sailing i use one pod to steer to make a nice smooth turn.

@ SD, the wheel on the InCat has the same purpose, to control both jets at one time during the sea passage

vin_sun · « **Reply #12 on:** April 05, 2011, 20:46:38 »

Quote from: Jaw on April 05, 2011, 20:33:56

So, the only way to control the azipods alone is to use the mouse. I just tested and it actually seems to be true.

Not really ...... use the arrow keys in conjunction with the Shift key.

Hold down the Shift key and tap on the Up or Down arrow key. You can increase / decrease the speed incrementally.

Similarly, hold down the Shift key and tap the Left or Right arrow keys. You can have good control in turning the OS.

But this is important .... release the arrow key FIRST and then the Shift key to hold the position of the lever or the angle of the azipod (at the required / chosen position)

I did the very first mission in Tourist tales - Rotterdam to Southampton using only the keyboard and I could maneuver the OS successfully.

Regards
vin_sun

eviss · « **Reply #13 on:** April 05, 2011, 20:48:02 »

Hello Jaw.

You can use the 2nd key input for using the ruder 1 and rudder 2 seperately with the keyboard !

Quote from: Jaw on April 05, 2011, 20:33:56

So that trying to manouver the vessel in azipod mode with your keyboard is impossible since it is impossible to handle "rudder 1"/port azipod without handling the steering wheel, which then overrides the azipod.

So, the only way to control the azipods alone is to use the mouse. I just tested and it actually seems to be true.

Try this and you'll see the posibilities are as requested !
( I use: "~" and "Q" for rudder 1 (left azip.) and then: "/" and "*" (num) for rudder 2 (right azip.).

vr. gr. / kind regards Erik

Jaw · « **Reply #14 on:** April 05, 2011, 21:06:01 »

I think you are describing how I think it ought to work.

I just tested:
Rudder 1: T and Y - this controls the port azipod AND the steering wheel (the problem!)
Rudder 2: K and L - this controls only the starboard azipod - excatly as I think it should

LucAtC · « **Reply #15 on:** April 05, 2011, 22:06:14 »

Not quite, if you use the azimuthal steering controls, be it on screen, at the bridge console or through the keyboard controls, the readings of the "on screen" wheel become irrelevant. In fact, the wheel is controlled only by mouse on screen or at the console.
Changing the throttle settings while steering with the wheel will change nothing to the steering mode.

Regards,
Luc

Jaw · « **Reply #16 on:** April 05, 2011, 22:24:37 »

So even though the wheel is affected together with the azipod it is only the azipod reacting and the wheel reading is obsolete?

LucAtC · « **Reply #17 on:** April 05, 2011, 22:51:18 »

Yes, the wheel and its indicators become (almost) irrelevant once you use the azimuthal controls.
The steering console should have been far enough from the manoeuvring station to prevent a quasi simultaneous use of both modes.
If you set for instance the rudders 15Â° left with the wheel, and then change one of the azipods orientation, the direction of the other pod will remain at 15Â° until you change the direction of both with the wheel, or with its own azipod control independently from its twin.
If you change your mind while the pods are pivoting, you could easily lose the oversight of their positions during a short time, not knowing how to interpret the readings. That is why it is advised -absent a mode selection repeater- to avoid jumping from mode to mode without having reset the wheels, controls and pods to midships in an orderly fashion.

Regards,
Luc

Jaw · « **Reply #18 on:** April 10, 2011, 15:56:12 »

Hi again,

I'm sorry, but I still don't get it! Maybe it's true what you're explaining, Luc, but then something else is wrong. I just tested something:

In free roaming just at the beginning when the ship is at 0 speed.
The starboard azipod is put to 170.9Âº and about 50 RPMs for about 10 seconds. This gives an aft thrust of about 0.2-0.5 knots - the RPM's are reset to 0.
Then I want to stop the vessel. The port azipod is kept in 0.0Âº and the RPMs are set to 135. I believe this should create a forward thrust. But what really happens is that the aft speed is increasing to more than 4 knots.

How can that be right? I know that's not how azipods are used in real life but that's not the point.

LucAtC · « **Reply #19 on:** April 10, 2011, 16:37:16 »

I did the same in free roam and in the editor, and cannot reproduce your results. Port azipod at 0.0Â° and RPM to anything positive RPM will give thrust ahead, you are right about it, and it should be the same for you as it is for me. Why isn't it so?
Do you have patch 1.3.5 installed? As not only can the unit be oriented astern, but that the rotation of motor and propeller can be inverted, couldn't you inadvertantly have given thrust astern instead of ahead? It is the only explanation that I can find, and the only way for me to reproduce it.

Regards,
Luc

Jaw · « **Reply #20 on:** April 10, 2011, 16:58:47 »

Thanks for your reply!

Yes, I have 1.3.5. And no, I can't have inverted the controls because if I restart the mission and only put the port azipod ahead the ship moves ahead as it is supposed to. It's weird...

Can it have anything to do with the way the forces are calculated? I mean if one azipod is in 177Âº and one in 0Âº does it calculate somekind of sum?

I'll test a little more to see if I can figure out when this happens and when it doesn't...

If you need any screen shots or anything else please let me know...

--tractorman-- · « **Reply #21 on:** April 10, 2011, 17:05:07 »

Quote from: saltydog on April 05, 2011, 20:42:55

I'm also a bit confused by the wheel on the White Marlin..

They do have one, though Ship Sims version is rather inaccurate to the real..

Bridge of a 86m Incat

http://www.ship-technology.com/projects/condor/images/condor5.jpg

They mostly have a little steering wheel on the armrest, like in these images

http://www.incat.com.au/domino/incat/incatweb.nsf/0/395915AF7997700DCA25743300014AD4/$File/0610371EL.jpg

http://www.incat.com.au/domino/incat/incatweb.nsf/0/6B95BCE8F39EBB9DCA257465008188AC/$File/0650230PL.jpg

Jaw · « **Reply #22 on:** April 10, 2011, 18:15:17 »

Well...

I can't seem to find out why it happens, but it happens!

I have tried to take some screen shots of situations where it happens in the attahed pdf file.

Can you explain to me what is going on, Luc?

LucAtC · « **Reply #23 on:** April 10, 2011, 21:11:38 »

I tried the exercise at the same place in Hamburg, and everything worked as it should. No sudden inversion of rotation happened, and I really cannot explain what is going on in the situations you described.
Whether it comes from the controls or not could be checked if the mouse controls were used instead of the keyboard. If the controls are not concerned, an underwater collision with the environment could be another explanation, but the issue not having been repeated later on seems to cancel the idea.
Also, simply restarting a mission or any situation that went wrong without restarting the game is pretty useless if the data that went wrong have been kept in memory.
What else? (cit. G.C.)

Regards,
Luc

Jaw · « **Reply #24 on:** April 10, 2011, 21:19:12 »

Thanks again.

I will try restarting the entire game next time. And maybe I should try a fresh installation of the game...

It's weird because it doesn't happen to me everytime I do it. As you see I can put the pods in same positions and have different outcomes. And I'm only using keyboard. And I'm pretty sure that there are no underwater collisions or anything else that could cause it. It seems to be the forces working opposite as they are supposed to

Anyway, if I am the only user with these problems then it must be my hardware or software problem. But it's really frustrating to do a mission and 10 meters from the pier the vessel goes crazy!

Author Topic: Manouvering the Orient Star (Read 16468 times)