What Happened to SSE?

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[Bukko]

Hi Ship nuts,

I'm fairly new to the Ship Simulator series and about a month ago I purchased SSE thru Steam. I've had no problems whatsoever with Steam btw so it looks like they've got it work out at this time.

A buddy of mine who suggested the Ship Simulator Series has SS 2008 as well as SSE.

After toying around with SSE for a while and getting a little frustrated with the front end menus (the lack of user ergonomics in the menus, load times, missing trackir support, memory loading resulting in 2-4 fps in Anartica free roaming, reseting throttles when switching views, graphic short comings such as poor bow wake/ spray, sea textures overlapping the boat in rougher water, limited map functions, poor drawing distance for scenery, pop up bridges and horizon objects, I could go on and on... but I'm not here to bash the SSE. I want to see it succeed!

I have a very fast multi core i7 gaming computer with plenty of ram and a 1.2gb Nvidia 570GTX. Raid arrays blah blah blah....and usually get 20-50fps in SSE with everything maxed in the settings @ 1900x1200 res.

Out of curiosity after reading the forum for a couple of weeks I borrowed my buddies copy of SS 2008 and was really surprised to find that SS 2008 actually blows SSE away in most everything but the look of the water! Ship modeling is pretty much the same... the menu system, bow spray/ wakes are much better. The ships seem to handle just as well as SSE and all of this with 60-100 fps.

I can understand the need to propel the ship sim platform into the future with the advancements in computers and the new GPU API's and to put food on the table at VSTEP but why did you guys at VSTEP forego so many of the quailities that made SS2008 in it's matured state such a nice game?

Craig

[Third Mate]

You sure are good at coming up with some wacky names  , but I fully support what you said above 

[sydmichel]

Hi Bukko

What a well writen post, congratulations you have successfully summerised every post since the birth of SSE.  The only thing you left out was the lack of AI vessels...But hey! look at the wonderful waves.

[Matthew Brown]

Indeed I agree on that 
SS08 is superior than SSE 

[jfail]

I agree totally with Bukko.  I am a long time user of 2008 and always loved it.   I have 30 years of experience in handling ships during my U.S. Coast Guard career.   I anxiously awaited the release of SSE last year thinking it would be greatly superior to 2008.  I have been very disappointed in SSE.  I agree with all of your points and have a couple more of my own but I won't get into that.  I went back to 2008 a couple of months ago and will wait until Vstep improves SSE.

[cptdave1958]

Yeap, I agree. I had an older computer and it worked well for a while. Then, I upgraded to a faseter PC and it seems that the fps just fell off the face of the earth... So much for boat handling these days...  Let's get busy and get this thing together, I love to sail....

[Bukko]

I was also looking closely at the videos of the "Nautis" version of Ship Sim.

It looks like SS 2008 ported with more features .

Too bad Vstep doesn't offer a mid level ship sim product as a the base platform for the serious Ship Sim enthusiast. I would pay for a product like that if it where available.

Just look at the number of addons for Microsoft Flight Simulator,  Railworks 2 etc and tally up the program plus addons for an average "serious user" and the monely spent on these programs can be upwards of 1000 dollars over a short period of time.

If VSTEP releases an SDK for 3rd party addon teams (Boat design and electronics etc) and releases Nautis grade modules for sale to enhance the platform we would have a real winner on our hands.... buy instead we have a glitchy arcade game at this point with poor replay value.

There are some very talented CAD artists and programmers out there along with dedicated design studios that will jump on board if an SDK was available if the sales figures and user base are as large as VSTEP claims. I've been using Rhino3d for over 10yrs and a number of different parametric modeling programs and would enjoy modeling objects and Vessels for ShipSim. With the current system in place it's almost a complete waste of time to model a complicated vessel for SS.  VSTEP....use your customer base to grow your business....

Just have a look at the multiplayer servers at any one time.  The situation looks pretty lonely at this time.
Where are those 500k ShipSim owners?

I wish there were more competitors in this arena to hold VSTEP's feet to the fire.

Vehicle Smulator, in it's eternal beta condition just doesn't cut it.

Craig

[Third Mate]

Yeah, because as they finished up patching ship sim 08, had a large number of freeware add-on, their purpose was to first of all cut out a large chunk of work from VSTEP's hands, then to tweak or polish off corners of the game which it has also achieved. The ships in SS 08 had their own separate files which I also liked. Each patch or add-on was simple, no confusing nonsense with steam and non steam versions of the Sim(game).

I believe VSTEP almost found the Jule Crown because all they need it to do finally for SS 08 was to have the realistic textures from Ship Sim 010 and the ocean detail. The ocean detail could of been done through a slider, so low detail would be what Ship Sim 08 has now and realistic would be what SS 10 has now. And just shrink the rest of the controls, add the possibility to turn off and on lights from SS 10. Since we are on the lights subject, some moderators started to work on instrument lights and outside lights, they had about 3 ships with instruments lights and outside lights, so just had to finished up the rest of the ships. Add the lower the life boat feature from SS10 +RHIBS. Fix up any other boats model errors. Overall there was just a bit more to do and they would of had a 100% Ship Simulator, but instead they took their chance and look what happened.

[Bukko]

It's really too bad.

Since I'm so new to Ship Sim I really didn't have much of a chance to become really biased toward SS 2008 or SSE.

Since I have been able to compare the 2 programs back to back as an unbiased user the superior product SS 2008 sticks out like a sore thumb in comparision to SSE.

Superior things about SS 2008

1) Overall Performance.  (Like Third Mate stated if only VSTEP would have simply buttoned up SS 2008 with enhanced water and the few other things that SSE has they would have had a world beater!)
2) Status Menu on the top screen.. very useful and easy to toggle...
3 All Menu Systems in the SS2008 are far superior to SSE!
4) I love the "Globe" button.... What a terrifice Idea for a front end to access addon scenery
5) Ship sounds and ambient sounds are better... Some Horns even have what sounds like a spatial reverb added to them in SS 2008!!  Why was this ommited in SSE?
6) Physics of the bow splashing and prop wash look better in SS2008. To be honest with you the wakes in SSE are bordering on bad.... and why do they have no influence io interaction on any other boat around them??
Physics of boat while underway with the look more realistic (even in SS2008's older sea modeling) than SSE
What's up with the poor physics modeling in SSE...?? ie: boats unrealistically coming out of the water especially in the aft area in heavy seas. They just don't bounce and heave correctly in SSE. Hey...VSTEP labeled this a Simulator...not me
9) Scenery draw distance and look of distance objects, buildings and landscape...winner hands down..SS
2008
10) menu and feature access while in game with SS2008. You're completely trapped to a reset scenario situation in SSE!!
11) I'll throw SSE a bone here... the moveable camera is very cool.

I guess we're just beating a dead horse here...but I can tell you one thing... the SSE is probably headed to the recycle bin on my machine and I'll occassionally check back on the patch status every month or so hoping for a hail Mary from VSTEP. As of V1.3.5  It's like sailing thru the "Omega Man" movie set minus the zombies. Barren and lifeless...if we had some well programmed electronics and navigation items to engage with it would change the entire feel of the program.

VSTEP...you have my word as a paying customer that I'll update my Amazon.com review of SSE to 5 stars and a gung ho narrative to go along with it if you can fix SSE or bring back SS 2008 from the baragain bin for a makeover.

Regards,
Craig

[Third Mate]

Indeed, there is some good news, You can always relay on Microsoft to bring you great stuff, like flight simulator X, I have had that for years, I have a lot of realistic addons, payware aircraft that say in the description, tested by real world pilots, so you can't go wrong there. I'm gonna get railworks 2 the most realistic train sim on the market with lots and tons of realistic add ons, but i gotta be honest when it comes to ship simulating, it's not there yet, but it's makeing progress

[Smithacus]

Greetings, Boatniks:

I should have done more research first before buying, but I made my decision and am sticking to it. I was thinking when I bought it "latest edition = best edition" like most games. Actually, being new to it all, I don't want to know much else I'm missing out on of the SS2008. The '08 I knew had many free downloads but going with Extremes my hope is that eventually the free downloads will come about.

Now to be  advocate the other game that I've quickly fell in love with was Virtual Sailor/Vehicle Sim. They've got sailing ships and submarines and ways to blow stuff up. Avast, ye! Some of the physics aren't realistic like turning and speed, depending on the vessel. SSE does the better job of the two. But VS has wind and water currents. Still, U-Boats and torpedos. Ah, but graphics and handling. U-boats! You win some, you lose some.

Captain of the 'Weser': So, what's it like down there, in a submarine?
Der Leitende: It's... quiet.
Captain of the 'Weser': Quiet? Hmm.

So, my question is why what is so "Extreme" about SSE?  The tugs? The giant cargo ships, those are extremely big. Oooh! I know, must be the ferry. Talk about extreme. Maybe it was the Greenpeace ships. Some people consider them extremeists. Maybe it was the extreme weather.  (Coast Guard Cutter in a hurricane box cover).

I'm just saying, the Extremes title makes it convey that it's a special edition or best version in a series. Whether or not this was VSTEP's intention the impression by title is what is perceived. The free demo only had two missions. A list of total vessals and locations was not included. Games should come with a list of ingredients like a box of food so you know all that you are getting. I'm not even sure how many vitamins Extremes is fortified with or if  it's all sugar. 

[Bukko]

From what limited exposure I've had with Virtual Sailor and Vehicle Simulator I actually think it's a more robust "platform" than SSE with so many adjustable parameters etc...

 It's too bad that there's basically one guy that's writing the program.
I bet that with the proper software team Virtual Sailor could become something. Coding 3d engines is super time consuming and requires some real talent.

I have decided to hold off on any DLC purchases for SSE until I see VSTEP "step up" to the plate and fix/enhance the program.

Craig

[Sunseekeringo]

Hi,

unfortunately you are absolutely right and I still wonder how VSTEP thought that this product is better than SS08. When you develop a product...don´t you test it?

But these questions already arose immediately after launching SSE...but up to now I am not satisfied with the answers...

cheers
Ingo