Ship Simulator
English forum => Ship Simulator 2008 => General discussions => Topic started by: zach8892 on March 28, 2008, 15:17:40
-
I am dissapointed at the ocean star for 2008 i do not like the pods that much it is not a fun as it used to be with reagular controls does anyone agree? :'(
-
Nope! I love this propulsion system very much. ;)
-
I can't wait for the Ocean Star. And it is more realistic having thrusters. Real cruise ships like the QM2 and Freedom of the Seas have this kind of setup.
-
Well, yes and no! The latest newbuilds for Carnival don't have pods, same for some of the huge Costa and MSC cruise liners, which are under construction now. But others will have...
-
i agree the is a pain to drive now it work better in 2006 it just seem to go where it whats to do not use it no more and what happend to the rader scanners no longer trun
-
I disagree, the "Ocean Star" is pretty good to manoeuvre. Well, in fact you need to exercise a little bit more with her, but then it's real fun. I'm using precision steering and three keys per each pod plus numpad for their thrust with perfect results!
Try harder! ;D
-
i do believe there is a thread explaining how to use the azipods for the ocean start ;) you should try the search function ;D
Dan
-
They are simple to use now. You just need to practice some on Free Roaming and you will soon find out how to use them. :)
-
Pods are the future in all commerical shipping!!! There the most manouvarble propulsion possible with the option to spin a ship the size of the Queen Mary 2 in its own length or moving it side ways on to a dock. Fantastic way of doing things and no harder to use than a rudder i feel with a lot more options! Ocean stars fast becoming a fav on my list primarily because of the azipods!
-
Most cruise ships have azipods. Mine did. They are very fun and easy because you can make the ship go any direction, I don't see why we didn't go to mexico sideways. No need for tugs or anything.
-
Most cruise ships have azipods. Mine did. They are very fun and easy because you can make the ship go any direction, I don't see why we didn't go to mexico sideways. No need for tugs or anything.
Would be interesting, unfortunately it would take absolutely ages to get there!
-
Well I can see where zach 8892 is coming from, I have just got the SS08 Add-on and I ssume some updates have been done for the likes of the POR etc which I can now get 80 degrees ROT whereas the supposedly more manouverable Ocean Star still only gives me a max ROT of 45! :-\
-
Most cruise ships have azipods. Mine did. They are very fun and easy because you can make the ship go any direction, I don't see why we didn't go to mexico sideways. No need for tugs or anything.
Do you personally own a cruise ship then? I possess a VLCC myself, most enjoyable :D
-
Do you personally own a cruise ship then? I possess a VLCC myself, most enjoyable :D
The cruise ship I was on... (I got to go in the bridge) :D
-
Pods are the future in all commerical shipping!!!
Pods are definately a neat propullsion system, but I wouldn't say they are the future of all commercial shipping. They have their benefits, and they definately have drawbacks too. One huge drawback is reliability and maintenance, as many of the initial cruiselines that installed pods have found out. In fact Royal Caribbean/Celebrity Cruises took major legal action against Rolls-Royce/Alstom because of all the downtime and lost cruises due to maintenance issues directly associated with pods installed on their vessels.
Pods are also expensive, and some vessel types like large tankers and bulkers don't need manueverability, they just need the greatest efficiency at the lowest capital cost.
As for the Ocean Star configuration in the game; it would be nice to also have an alternative choice of something like 2xCPP mains, twin independant rudders, 3 bow thrusters, 2 stern thrusters or something similar anyway.
Cheers :)
-
Are they the same thing as on the red eagle ferry?
-
Are they the same thing as on the red eagle ferry?
Close but no.
-
The Red Eagle has Voith-Schneider propulsion, which is very different from azimuthing screws.
There are many topics that explain how VSPs work and how to maneuver the Red Eagle.
Marty
-
Aftr a brief orientation to the new precision set up I find myself very pleased with piloting the new Ocean Star. I would liked to of seen some over all model improvements, however, all in all I am very pleased!
-
I also like the Ocean Star, but find myself battling with the handling when in close quarters due to the pods not doing what you're telling them to do.
For example lastnight I was trying to manouver myself into a small harbour up by Southampton... eventually it resulted in a sinking. If I am going ahead, say at 3knots or so and want to slow down, you assume that you can either use transverse arrest, or point the pods astern and apply power. In my case though, the arrest doesn't make a difference at all, and pointing the pods aft makes the ship go faster forward (say upto 5 knots) for around 15 seconds or so before it starts slowing down, eventually going astern - if you're working with a small gap ahead, that's then too late and <bang>. Also, I don't think the bow thruster should be as powerful - it produces more power than the pods by the feel, and certainly at speeds over 20knots it shouldn't be as effective as it is on the steering.
Knowing that the pods handle the Bugsier pretty well (apart from transverse arrest http://www.towingsolutionsinc.com/technology-escort_tugs.html (same problem)), it's just a shame the same doesn't apply to the Ocean Star :(
-Alex
-
Whats arrest? ???
-
Guess, Alex means the thrust. However, it's of course possible to slip sideways with the "Bugsier 2" and the tug mentioned at your link has another prop arrangement than the "B2" with two azimuth thrusters at the stern and a towing rope connected to the bow. Those are the two standard arrangements for modern tugs, propulsion and towing winch almost at the opposite end of the vessel.
I have never seen what you are telling about the acceleration of the "Ocean Star". Did you work with the arcade steering or with precision steering?
Cheers
-
Hello again,
I have made two screenshots, showing the general thruster arrangement for a side step with "B2" and a very short video. As you may see there, you have to fine tune thrust and thrust direction a bit to find the correct setting. I have done both at the original tug last summer, the use depends on how many thrust you need sideways and if you are under towing conditions or not.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUYGvnBwRZc
-
Pods are definately a neat propullsion system, but I wouldn't say they are the future of all commercial shipping. They have their benefits, and they definately have drawbacks too. One huge drawback is reliability and maintenance, as many of the initial cruiselines that installed pods have found out. In fact Royal Caribbean/Celebrity Cruises took major legal action against Rolls-Royce/Alstom because of all the downtime and lost cruises due to maintenance issues directly associated with pods installed on their vessels.
Pods are also expensive, and some vessel types like large tankers and bulkers don't need manueverability, they just need the greatest efficiency at the lowest capital cost.
Yep.... definatly right! I meant future of Shipping with "talking cargo" though!!
Dead right about the maintinance as well.... If Your remember the QM2 having all sorts of problems even having to cut short voyages because of problems with the bearings inside of the azipod. The freedom of the seas having the same problem having to dry-dock in hamburg prior to its sea trials, and so on. But i think its the same with all new, revolutonary concepts, they have there pros and cons- the cons i expect will be ironed out in the near future but for now, i think that azipods are a fantastic new propulsion system which is.... mabye not with the Ocean star, way more manouvarable than a standard rudder and while they may not be suited to all ships they certainly have a place in a large number of modern cruise ships.
-
For all those who want to know more about that discussion I recommend the February issue of The Naval Architect with a study about azipods and their reliability compared to conventional shaft propulsion.
-
I have attempted to capture some vid from the Ocean Star (ignore the jitteryness), as you can see, I am going astern, yet I am speeding up ???
Will have another attempt later on....
http://videos.ribseadrive.co.uk/test2.wmv
-Alex
-
It's hard to see anything, guess I have to look at it a second time..
-
Still strange as I can see nothing at the controls? How do you change the course without touching them? ???
-
That's exactly my problem :)
If I set the controls as you see there, so they are pointed astern, but to stbd, it should be stopping me, but bringing the stern across to stbd as well. About 15 seconds after making that alteration to the pods, you see the ship suddenly makes a turn to port as the stern is brought around to stbd. Also though, watch the speed - it is increasing ahead, despite going astern ???
Just speaking with one of my mates down the road and he just asked me the same question about the handling of the Ocean Star, wondering if it was something he's doing wrong, but he is experiencing exactly the same as me.
Will maybe try and take some video of the screen later which is less overhead on the cpu (and without flickers) later on or tomorrow.
-Alex
-
Hi, it's pretty simple! I did some trials and the effect results from the very slow turning of the pods! If you stopp engines first, then turning both to 180 degree and wait a few seconds, then full throttle and you will see the vessel slows down as you want it. If you turn the pods whilst the engines are at speed, the vessel may leave the course and/or it accelerates further until the thrusters have reached the other direction. The controls are fasten than the pods and that is realistic! I'll post a short video in a few minutes here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U_sDNabbl4
-
the cons i expect will be ironed out in the near future but for now, i think that azipods are a fantastic new propulsion system
Agreed! ;D It's also very interesting how the technology has been incorporated into other concepts such as CRP (Contra-Rotating Propellers).
Cheers
Bottman....you're a machine!! :) Still going strong! Glad to see you're still as active as ever on the forum! Great stuff!
-
Also remember when piloting the Star, she is a puller pod design, not a pusher, and the turning is inversed, or it is for me . . .
-
and after all the truning rates discussions we should be careful that vstep does not increase turning rates at all ships massivly for no further discussions. the turning rates should be real, nothing is won when we can manouver with the latitude like a sportboat to prevent further discussions.
e.g after the discussion with the PoR the files are now reversed. nice, but now a little to much. a cruise ferry cannot (especially with no stern thrusters) make a 180deg turn like you can do now. initially 1.3 was to low, not its too much
-
Me too, i hate the controls of the ocean star too, is the controls really used on the real ocean star?
-
Well, there is no real "Ocean Star" afloat! She's a model, a mixture out of several cruise liners. But the controls are quite realistic. She may have them within the bridge wings too, but in general they are okay.
@AriesDW: You will see/feel no difference, if the props are pulling (like ABB's Azipod system) or pushing or both (like Schottel-CRP). The direction of the thrust is the same when turning the controls. It's a little bit tricky, that turning the control clockwise (to starboard) will result in a prop thrust to port side and a ship movement to port as well. I have driven a two-podded passenger ferry (see below) several times with a changed system (turning the joystick to port means the vessel steers to port) - but it was quite difficult, when going astern or sideways, because the lever shows into the opposite direction then.. ;) - uuufffff - I like it as it is! ;D
Regards
-
Well, there is no real "Ocean Star" afloat! She's a model, a mixture out of several cruise liners. But the controls are quite realistic. She may have them within the bridge wings too, but in general they are okay.
the ocean star seems to be this here , not a mix but exactly.
www.ship-technology.com/projects/carnival_legend/
and by the way, she is also way too fast when you look at the real thing. (i wrote about it in the forum)
like nearly all cruise ferries she should be in the region of 22kt service speed (24 top at trial) . i think buliding it faster would be very ineffective in the manner of required machinery power and fuel consumption since on such a ship the trip as itself is the goal and not as fast as possible crossing times.
the ocean star in the sim easily goes 26kt in calm seas. i cross hard my fingers that this issue will be corrected at the next patch.
-
Okay, the "Ocean Star" is close to the "Carnival Legend", but without the permission to use the original, she used to have some differing details. And you are right, she seems to be too fast, reaching almost the service speed of the "QM2"/"QE2". But to be honest, I like that for any long distance journey.. ;)
-
well for me personally its not a problem when ships here are renamed due to lack of permission as long as she looks and behaves like the original vessel.
but regarding to your speed enjoyment i respectfully disagree. we try to enjoy here reality in possible limits, due to your arguments you could also make go her 80kt and enjoy the trip...
ans simulating the real speed possibilities of the real carnival legend is surely not a law problem like naming her like the real thing.
best regards
-
Okay, the "Ocean Star" is close to the "Carnival Legend", but without the permission to use the original, she used to have some differing details. And you are right, she seems to be too fast, reaching almost the service speed of the "QM2"/"QE2". But to be honest, I like that for any long distance journey.. ;)
I thought it was closer to the Norwegian Star, same paint job. Deck layout is a bit different. There was only 1 pool. I was on the vessel. :)
-
For all those who want to know more about that discussion I recommend the February issue of The Naval Architect with a study about azipods and their reliability compared to conventional shaft propulsion.
Which happens to be available on our beloved Interweb (http://publishing.yudu.com/A6y44/NAFeb08/resources/70.htm). :)
-
I thought it was closer to the Norwegian Star, same paint job. Deck layout is a bit different. There was only 1 pool. I was on the vessel. :)
nope, the norwegian star is pretty different. look at the funnel, the side balcony layout, the front below the bridge.
http://www.kreuzfahrt-hafen.de/kreuzfahrt/norwegian-cruise-line-ncl-kreuzfahrten/norwegian-star/ms-norwegian-star.jpg
-
but regarding to your speed enjoyment i respectfully disagree. we try to enjoy here reality in possible limits, due to your arguments you could also make go her 80kt and enjoy the trip...
best regards
And hey, it's one of my favorite jobs to tell the developers what's wrong and what's right with the ship dynamics! We couldn't have long distance journeys, so it wasn't my wish to have "tuned" vessels... ;)
-
And hey, it's one of my favorite jobs to tell the developers what's wrong and what's right with the ship dynamics! We couldn't have long distance journeys, so it wasn't my wish to have "tuned" vessels... ;)
well, i,m sure you,re the right man for this job! keep on pushing with the topspeeds so we can see results in the next patch!
-
Well, there is no real "Ocean Star" afloat! She's a model, a mixture out of several cruise liners. But the controls are quite realistic. She may have them within the bridge wings too, but in general they are okay.
@AriesDW: You will see/feel no difference, if the props are pulling (like ABB's Azipod system) or pushing or both (like Schottel-CRP). The direction of the thrust is the same when turning the controls. It's a little bit tricky, that turning the control clockwise (to starboard) will result in a prop thrust to port side and a ship movement to port as well. I have driven a two-podded passenger ferry (see below) several times with a changed system (turning the joystick to port means the vessel steers to port) - but it was quite difficult, when going astern or sideways, because the lever shows into the opposite direction then.. ;) - uuufffff - I like it as it is! ;D
Regards
I find it interesting you say that, in reality yes, you turn the stick to port, the vessel goes to port, and same for starboard . . . However, I should of said that I was referring to in game controls . . . I was recently piloting the Star on MP and I found that I kept having to bring the pods to the opposite direction of which I really wanted to turn. I felt this was quite silly. I checked to make sure I had the pods facing the right way and was in fact pressing forward as opposed to forwards, however, the helm reponds in opposites for me. I will look into this . . .
But yes, in reality you are right.
SPEED - Yes, the Ocean Star is faster than her real life counterparts. I have sailed on the Carnival Pride and I consulted heavily in regards to the building of the Ocean Star for SS. I have noticed that her rate of turn is STILL way too fast and her acceleration is dramatically unrealistic, I will, however, complain to make sure this is corrected.
-
SPEED - Yes, the Ocean Star is faster than her real life counterparts. I have sailed on the Carnival Pride and I consulted heavily in regards to the building of the Ocean Star for SS. I have noticed that her rate of turn is STILL way too fast and her acceleration is dramatically unrealistic, I will, however, complain to make sure this is corrected.
fantastic news that it will be fixed!
-
I cannot guarantee it, but I will be talking to the devs about it . . . So let's keep our fingers crossed! I do not like how I can go from 0knots to 7 in almost not time at all. LOL
-
Here is a little sketch, maybe it clears my description from above...
-
Had an opportunity to play around with Ocean Star. My two cents; I found it very satisfying. Only comment would be that the bow thruster needs some work, it was effective at speeds of up to 12kts; which is not realistic at all, would expect to loose effectiveness around 3-5kts tops.
Here's a couple snaps squeezing in at the passenger terminal in Rotterdam.
ps - Does anyone know If there is any way to move those static ships in the editor? Some of them are in really premium spots! :)
-
Effective diagram there, Bott . . . appreciate it. Apparently there were somethings that I misunderstood, you clarified it a lot, thanks.
RE: Thrusters. Yes, they are VERY unrealistic. I am also having throttle to speed issues. Even with the motors @ 19 RPM the ship breaks 11 knots and continues to accelerate. Also, the pods are responding inproperly when spun to 90/-90 facing. Still a lot of kinks to work out.
-
okay so correct me if im wrong please...the Ocean Star's pods start out in the pushing position. If you turn the joysticks in game to 180o then the pods will be in the pulling position. From there, if you turn the starboard pod 45o to starboard, the stern will go to port thus propelling the ship to starboard. Correct? If you were to then turn the port pod 45o port when in the pulling position, then the ship will go port.
Regards,
Dan
-
The Star, as many cruise liners, have pusher pods. Pusher pods, according to several sources, provide less stern "thrashing" and reduce vibration and cavatation. If you turn the pods around and run them in reverse, then they essentially are pullers, but that is pretty counter intuitive and will result in reduced performance quality.
-
@Cloud: Unfortunately only the developers at VSTEP can move the statics! That's why a few new missions are weird at some places, because we mission creators didn't know exactly, where some of those will appear in the final version.. :(
Regards
-
The Star, as many cruise liners, have pusher pods.
How do you know? ;) Have you seen her dry docked? ;)
Guess, she has "virtual" pods and the responsible developer has no idea about the difference at all...
Cheers
-
Thanks for the feedback on the static vessels Bottman. Yes, it's definately a little frustrating. Is there any way the development team can be influenced to remove them in the prime locations? Perhaps in a future version or update?
Kind Regards
-
That's exactly what I'm asking the developers for! Hopefully we, the mission creators, will get the tool for it. ;)
-
How do you know? ;) Have you seen her dry docked? ;)
Guess, she has "virtual" pods and the responsible developer has no idea about the difference at all...
Cheers
As a matter of fact yes . . . :p
-
I just cant get the hang of it lol....At one point I had my ship going sideways! Lol
-
As a matter of fact yes . . . :p
you surely mean this (pushing ::))pods....
http://www.marinelog.com/IMAGES/pod.jpeg
but oops, boottman seems to be right, i see pulling pods ;D
it is the carnival triupmh...
-
RE: Thrusters. Yes, they are VERY unrealistic. I am also having throttle to speed issues. Even with the motors @ 19 RPM the ship breaks 11 knots and continues to accelerate. Also, the pods are responding inproperly when spun to 90/-90 facing. Still a lot of kinks to work out.
This is the main issue I have, but when trying to go astern as well. When you are going ahead, say 10knots, turn the pods around to 180 degrees and then apply full power only to find the thing goes faster ahead (say 15knots or so) for a good 30 seconds or more before all of a sudden it starts slowing down. I agree that there would be a delay while the pod turns around, but is it really that long? Unfortunately I am unable to do a direct video from screen, so will try with the camcorder later on to show the problems I have with the vessel.
The pic attached shows Ocean Star going 10knots sideways.... that bow thruster is very very powerful indeed :)
-Alex
-
Hi Alex
Regarding to the time an azipod takes to turn 180°, I can only tell you a figure from my own experience on a ship with azimuth thrusters (not azipod): It was taking 17 seconds to turn 180°. Even if it sounds short, actually in manoeuvre it's really long and you have to be really careful when applying thruster!
Budbud.
-
Hello Budbud,
Yeah, I am aware that some tugs also have 17 or 18 second turn around on their pods too. If the Ocean Star is also this slow, ie 30 seconds for the full 180 degree, then maybe this should be a feature request as a dial on the ship somewhere that tells you where the pod is actually pointing - like you get on tugs. So for example, if you point the pod at 90 degrees from 0, you should see a dial coming around until it hits 90 - this would not be linked directly to the control that you see, and should provide information only on where the pod is pointed. I believe the same should also apply with Bugsier, since I know there is a small delay in turning there which is about right, but it would be nice to know what the pod is upto.
The attached pic shows what I'm on about, with the pod direction on the left, propellor rpm on the middle and engine rpm on the right.
-Alex
-
Hi Alex,
I fully agree with you on the fact there should be a feedback display of the position of the azipods, if there is a delay between the request and the reply in ss2008.
Budbud.
-
The pic attached shows Ocean Star going 10knots sideways.... that bow thruster is very very powerful indeed
Very nice pic! ;) I think that's proof enough that it needs some tweaking.
-
The attached pic shows what I'm on about, with the pod direction on the left, propellor rpm on the middle and engine rpm on the right.
I like that, just like Red Eagle has. :) Except the delay would show instead of being instant.
-
What would be really nice is if the Ocean Star's controls behaved similarly to those in a Spirit/Vista/QV2-class ship.
They have 3 modes :
"ship mode", in which the ship's wheel turns the azipods, much like a conventional ship's wheel turns the rudder. In this mode, the azipods can move up to 35 degrees from the straight ahead position. The ship then behaves pretty much like a standard vessel.
"maneuvering mode", in which each azipods is independently controlled. If I remember correctly, the maximum rpm of each propellor is limited to about 40% of full power. Full power is only available in "ship mode".
"joystick mode", in which a joystick is used to position the ship, and the system's computers take care of the azipod direction and power, and also the bow thrusters.
I can dream...!
-
why can't it be when you go right the ship moves left it should be the same as the other ships
-
why can't it be when you go right the ship moves left it should be the same as the other ships
It uses pods, so no it can't be. This is to learn manovering and this is how you do it on these vessels.
-
It uses pods, so no it can't be. This is to learn manovering and this is how you do it on these vessels.
Bugsier 2 is using pods and when you go right the ship moves to right why is the different
TJK
why can't it be when you go right the ship moves left it should be the same as the other ships
-
Buggser 2 is using pods and when you go right the ship moves to right why is the different
TJK
Because the buggser is using pusher pods. Star is using puller pods.
-
The main (and only) difference between the "Ocean Star" and the "Bugsier 2" is the location of the thrusters. That may cause some confusion. The steering and/or behaviour of both vessels would be the same as now with pulling or pushing units. That makes no difference at all for the manoeuvrebility.
Cheers
-
I love Ocean Star. everything s nice. Walkmode i like. and the design and the controller. this look so Realistic ;D
(http://i26.tinypic.com/258466o.jpg)
-
V-step should swap the ocean star with a proper ship like the QM2
-
V-step should swap the ocean star with a proper ship like the QM2
If you don't like Ocean Star live it and don't use her, i don't like Latitude and i don't use that ship, simple as that
-
TJK is right, i don't like the RPA 12 that much, so i don't use it much :P
-
Hi, it's pretty simple! I did some trials and the effect results from the very slow turning of the pods! If you stopp engines first, then turning both to 180 degree and wait a few seconds, then full throttle and you will see the vessel slows down as you want it. If you turn the pods whilst the engines are at speed, the vessel may leave the course and/or it accelerates further until the thrusters have reached the other direction. The controls are fasten than the pods and that is realistic
That's correct, I tried this ship today and there is nothing wrong with her controls. SS08 captains have to remember that her huge pods don't turn as fast as you turn the controls, the pods need at least 30 seconds to complete a 180 turn, which is very realistic indeed ;)
On real ships there is also an important instrument on the bridge showing the pods actual movement and position.
-
If you don't like Ocean Star live it and don't use her, i don't like Latitude and i don't use that ship, simple as that
The point is that i would like to sail a large modern ocean liner!
-
On real ships there is also an important instrument on the bridge showing the pods actual movement and position.
We have asked VSTEP to implement such an indicator, not only for the pod driven vessel, but also for the others. Because the information bar always shows the total amount of the rudder/pod movement and not the current position of them. It's amazing to see, that the huge rudder of the "Latitude" or "Vermaas" skips from amidship to hard layed within an eye close. As the developers told us, the simulated effect is correct, that's what we can see onboard the "Ocean Star", but the indicator is still wrong.
@Paddy134: You want the "QM2"? Well, you will have the same problems, because she's also pod driven.. ;)
Regards
-
i would say the pods control is more or less realistic, especially that they move slowly. but beyond this there are so many bugs that its no joy to sail her. bowthrusters are way too strong, accleration way to quick, service speed not correct. there is simply no feel to steer a nearly 300m crusieliner, so absolutely no fun.
-
i would say the pods control is more or less realistic, especially that they move slowly. but beyond this there are so many bugs that its no joy to sail her. bowthrusters are way too strong, accleration way to quick, service speed not correct. there is simply no feel to steer a nearly 300m crusieliner, so absolutely no fun.
Well I'm not sure I agree, the bow thrusters on these ships are in fact very powerful, keep in mind there are several of them. 3 is not unusual, and if they operate all of them at full power the ship's bow really takes off. Vstep just turned it all into one ;)
The main reason for all the bow thruster power is simply the wind, a large cruise ship acts like a giant sail, and when gale force winds hit the side it actually needs all that power to be able to turn the bow against the wind. So if you only got a light breeze 20-30% thrust is realistic.
The acceleration is not too bad, when leaving harbor at 5% thrust she accelerates slowly just like a real ship. At sea it depends on the wind and sea conditions of course.
I'd say the Ocean Star is more or less pretty realistic, if I'll point on something it must be the thrust lever reaction time. The pods react immediately when moving the levers, on real ships there is a delay.
-
The point is that i would like to sail a large modern ocean liner!
OK i understand, but Ocean Stare are weary easy to handle wen you Haw learned the pods and how it's works, go in free roam and go and practice, it's the best way, i love the ship it's not easy in the begging but it's when you awe learn the pods and how they works and how she behave in the water
Ocean stare don't need tugs to bed it Yost go sideways in to the dock, and she nearly can go around she self ;)
-
i hate its controls
-
I am really frustrated with Ocean Star,With all the Patience in the World i cannot get this Azimus to Work whilst you set one the others change themselves and you just go around in circles, it may be that it is a system that needs more investigation before implementation, and the better suggestion would be to put the ships controls the same throughout. At least it would them make it possible to use the Ocean Star
-
I am really frustrated with Ocean Star,With all the Patience in the World i cannot get this Azimus to Work whilst you set one the others change themselves and you just go around in circles, it may be that it is a system that needs more investigation before implementation, and the better suggestion would be to put the ships controls the same throughout. At least it would them make it possible to use the Ocean Star
If you shall do a right turn with OS use the left arrow key on you keyboard, and opposite.
and you can get help from the bow trust to turn. and it's easy ere to use the keyboard arrow key to sailing OS and not the mouse
-
We have asked VSTEP to implement such an indicator, not only for the pod driven vessel, but also for the others. Because the information bar always shows the total amount of the rudder/pod movement and not the current position of them. It's amazing to see, that the huge rudder of the "Latitude" or "Vermaas" skips from amidship to hard layed within an eye close. As the developers told us, the simulated effect is correct, that's what we can see onboard the "Ocean Star", but the indicator is still wrong.
@Paddy134: You want the "QM2"? Well, you will have the same problems, because she's also pod driven.. ;)
Regards
I dont mind the pods, the ocean star is a bad design, well asaesthetically. Damn boxy cruise ship!
@ TJK what i said above.
Edited for language, DJM.
-
i hate its controls
That was a easy comet, you cud tell why you hate it, maybe the developer of the game can understand watt you mean or hate ;)
-
@ TJK what i said above.
that coment was not for you but Simaddict
I dont mind the pods, the ocean star is a crap design, well asaesthetically. Damn boxy cruise ship!
@ TJK what i said above.
The point is that i would like to sail a large modern ocean liner!
complain, complain complain complain, complain complain complain, complain complain complain, complain complain complain, complain complain is that all you can do, if it so bad with the ship sim sell it to someone who like to haw fun and not youst complain,
-
I am sorry my post irritated you, my sole point was to get some constructive replies on how to handle this vessel, I was not indicating that it was bad as described, i like the ship but just cannot handle the controls. Perhaps in retrospect I should just keep quiet and wait improvements to be made in the near Future. Again I appologise.
Edited for language, DJM.
-
Hiya all :)
This topic seems to be degrading into an argument. May I remind everyone that we all have different opinions, and we are all entitled to complain if we feel the need to. Criticising other members for having an opinion, is not a good idea.
Thanks :)
DJM/Carl.
-
What I really hate about those pods is that, if I turn the pods to 180° and throttle up, the ship still accelerates instead of slowing down. Sometimes it accelerates for 2 -3 more knots and then starts slowing down. This very strange behavior ruined my maneuvers more then ones.
Can anybody confirm this?
-
Hello DerBandit,
Yes, you are right, but it is also how it has to work. Rotating the pods can last up to 30 sec (delay to be confirmed? :D ), so that you still have forward thrust during half the time if you kept the propellers running.
What happens is that the info bar at the top of the screen gives your desired setting (SollWerte) instead of the instantaneous one (IstWerte).
There must be also a distinct transverse thrust if you rotate both pods the same way.
Regards, 8)
Luc
-
Those 30 seconds are in the game or in real life? How do I know in the game what my actual Pod Position is (The IstWert)?
-
I am sorry my post irritated you, my sole point was to get some constructive replies on how to handle this vessel, I was not indicating that it was bad as described, i like the ship but just cannot handle the controls. Perhaps in retrospect I should just keep quiet and wait improvements to be made in the near Future. Again I appologise.
Edited for language, DJM.
you post was not irritated me i trying to answer you in a simple way how to use the controllers on Ocean Stare
If you shall do a right turn with OS use the left arrow key on you keyboard, and opposite.
and you can get help from the bow trust to turn. and it's easy ere to use the keyboard arrow key to sailing OS and not the mouse
So that you misunderstand, sorry about that, the complaining part was not for you
We misunderstand itch odder here i think, still friends i hope, i don't like it like this, i'm sorry Simaddict ;) if you feel that you iterated me, you absolute didn't that
-
Hiya all :)
This topic seems to be degrading into an argument. May I remind everyone that we all have different opinions, and we are all entitled to complain if we feel the need to. Criticising other members for having an opinion, is not a good idea.
Thanks :)
DJM/Carl.
Sorry my friend if i got to fare with this answer
TJK/Tore
I dont mind the pods, the ocean star is a crap design, well asaesthetically. Damn boxy cruise ship!
@ TJK what i said above.
The point is that i would like to sail a large modern ocean liner!
complain, complain complain complain, complain complain complain, complain complain complain, complain complain complain, complain complain is that all you can do, if it so bad with the ship sim sell it to someone who like to haw fun and not youst complain,
-
@Der Bandit,
If my memory is correct, both in reality and in the game, although it is long ago that I had a closer look to the dynamics of Ocean Star. I remember a 180° rotation (long) delay for Schottel pump-jets of 7 sec, so that the 30 sec figure struck me as an eternity, but I can be wrong. I'll search for the ABB Azipod dynamics, I know there is much written about it. As far as the indication of the controlled value, there is up to now none I could find.
Regards, :)
Luc
-
Sorry my friend if i got to fare with this answer
TJK/Tore
Not to worry Tore, it was just a polite reminder about differences of opinion, and of course differences in culture ;)
-
Here (http://dvo.free.fr/systemsarticles.htm), I found a good text giving a rotation time of 22.5 seconds for Elation's ABB Azipods, much quicker than I thought... :-[
Luc
And here (http://www.beyondships.com/files/Amsterdam_stats.PDF) too, Amsterdam's particulars, 12 sec from 0 to 35° in steering mode.
-
Thanks for the info LucAtC
-
The normal rotation time for heavy azipods up to 200 tons is some 30 seconds. There is a command delay of 5-10 sec, and then you add the actual rotation time of the pods 20-30 sec. It looks this is simulated pretty well on the Ocean Star.
It's very important to know the pods' position, as you can see if you increase thrust too soon the ship will move in a direction you did not expect. Wait at least the 30 seconds when you rotate the controls 180 degrees.
-
Then it sure would be nice to have an Indicator for the true Pod position.
-
Then it sure would be nice to have an Indicator for the true Pod position.
Exactly! 8) One more working instrument on the simple desert-looking bridge with tourists crawling everywhere just to get a snap shot of the cruise captain!
More indicators please, needles and blinking LED's so you have the final opportunity to ask the question: "What is this button used for"? ;D
Do you remember the warning saying: "Don't push this button..."? ;)
-
Yes the pod position indicator on the bridge is a vital part of this system, too bad it's missing on the SS azipod ships. They do have working rudder position indicators though, so it shouldn't be too much of a challenge for Vstep to include it for the pods, something they really should give a priority.
-
Pods are the future in all commerical shipping!!!
maybe jst for cruise ships! unfortunetly...
-
Yes the pod position indicator on the bridge is a vital part of this system, too bad it's missing on the SS azipod ships. They do have working rudder position indicators though, so it shouldn't be too much of a challenge for Vstep to include it for the pods, something they really should give a priority.
That's still at the wish list of VSTEP... ;)
-
maybe jst for cruise ships! unfortunetly...
Well, there are a few RoRo's and RoPax's with azimuth propulsion, lots of very special vessels für the offshore industry und some ice breaking tankers will have pods to allow them to navigate astern through the ice.
-
Well there is no reason to be disappointed anymore at the Ocean Star, the 1.4.2 patch definitely improved the controls. The pods react faster, and I haven't noticed any unexpected turns or movements. Well done, I'm pleased with the new patch :)
-
Hi,
As 1st Officer on the Independence of the Seas, a pods ship. I'm a little bit concern about the reaction of the ship motion for the Ocean Star. Yes the new patche improve the ships movement but again a lot of work about the ship's dinamic need to be done. ( Bow truster have way to much effect, ) its not possible to turn the ship at 20 to 30deg/min rate of turn when doing 15kts....... Bow trusther are efficiant at a maximum speed of 6 to 8 kts.
Also the pod are rudder so when propeller are stop the ship should turn if I turn the pod. ( the option of a Miniwheel) (normal wheel to control both pod in same time so if you adjust 1 pod the other will follow.) the same with the RPM control, for manouvring its fine but when cruising we should have a combi RPM control so if you touch one pod the other adjust its rpm to be exaclty the same. I should be able to put a limit on the pod angle when cruising to not end up with 90deg if I push the arrow by mistake.
at a speed of 15kts if I turn the pod at 20deg I should get 30 to 50 deg/min rate of turn when on the game I just get 5 to 8deg....
the acceleration is too fast for the ship when underway. and for docking and undocking (ex putting 1 pod 90deg to undock) I should put maximum 50% load on the propeller and that will over take the power of the truster. All pods ship have maximum power available when the pod is between 35deg to port or STBD and lose 40% of the power when working on all other angle ( except when reach 35deg port and STBD and stern way.)
RPM indication should be changed. Pod ship have Diesel Electric and the RPM is the Propeller RPM and the Max RPM is about 145(like the POR also)..... and with about 90 RPM we should have about 15 Kts.
Hope thats gonna help for the new patche !!!
Bye
Emanuel
-
Totally agree, Emanuel!
But keep in mind, that the "Ocean Star" was the very first azimuth driven vessel in the game. So there are a lot of improvements to be done. It's not so easy to create the whole ship dynamics from the office PC with very rare knowledge about those giant cruise liners at all. Therefor it isn't so bad, I think. But your comments should be helpful to improve the "OS".
Regards
-
Well, there are a few RoRo's and RoPax's with azimuth propulsion, lots of very special vessels für the offshore industry und some ice breaking tankers will have pods to allow them to navigate astern through the ice.
yes bt not on a normal 250000 gt crude carrier.. or a container or a bulk...
-
Such data are indeed unvaluable, as some characteristics of such ships are largely unknown, like Bottman ;) said.
What would still be missing to simulate realistically the accelerations or the braking, is the block coefficient or the displacement of Independence of the Seas.
For instance, is it right that she is propelled by three 14MW pods, one being fixed, guessing a Cb 0.6 and/or a displacement of 65000 t maximum?
Her bowthrusters would have a total 13.6MW, and her maximum speed is 21.6kts at 85%MCR of the pods?
This last version of Ocean Star was designed, as guessed from the characteristics and some timings, at a displacement of 40000t and propelled by pods (total 65MW...), that could explain great accelerations and the too high maximum speed of the model?
Her coasting distance in the sim, from 22kts, is 12.6 lengths, but full astern 1.7, which is certainly too fast and means too much thrust in reverse. Also, stopping the thrust is (almost?) instantaneous, perhaps is it possible with such electrical systems to quickly derive the power to auxiliaries during transitions, or is there a distinct delay (30sec?) as with "pure" diesel engines?
Regards
Luc
-
Well, I look at SS08 as an entertainment game, not as a precision simulator, for that it lacks way too much. The Ocean Star behaves similar to a real cruise liner, I find her maximum speed at 24-25 knots in calm weather, that's not unrealistic. Her bowthrusters shouldn't be effective with speed over 8 knots, but I simply don't use them doing that speed or more. They are also very powerful at low speed or 0 knots, but that is not unrealistic either.
Emanuel I think you are going a little too much into details, when looking at the game as it is. And the Ocean Star is a virtual ship, not a simulated real one, Vstep can program any dynamics they want into it. But by all means, if they got time to make it 100% like real pod systems please do..
-
When we don't have any measuring units on board these vessels in SS how in Earth are you going to find out if the ship dynamics is realistic or non-realistic? Beside how much failure do you accept? 5%...10%....50%?
What data can you compare with and where in SS do you find such data?
I mean... sounds like you have to have magical skills to find it out...
We don't really have any instruments on board the vessels that can measure such stuff. And when dozens of other factors can affect the results of the tests...how big chance do you have to say that your results are the correct ones...?
I don't get it... ???
-
Well, indeed we have some instruments, like those every seafarer could use: clock, ROT indicator, speed log, GPS... ;)
-
Emanuel -
Your comments regarding Independence of the Seas would apply to the Fincantieri Vista Class ships (Zuiderdam + her HAL sisters, also Arcadia, Queen Victoria). Like Independence, these ships have ABB azipods, and have similar behavior/restrictions to Independence (35 degrees port/starboard in ship mode, similar turn rate, 145 rpm limit, etc).
The biggest disappointment in the simulation of the Ocean Star is the ineffectiveness of the azipods in providing a turning motion. I have a copy of the Wheelhouse Poster / Pilot's Card for the Vista class; I'd really like to see the Ocean Star behave in a similar manner! The Ocean Star is supposed to be a representation of the Carnival Spirit Class, which the Vista class is an Italian derivitive of....
LucAtc - the Vista class ships have three bow thrusters, 1.9MW each. Stopping distance from 22 knots is just under 2000m - however, to avoid an iceberg, it'd be better to put the pods 35 degrees to starboard, as the turning circle is about 540m with an entry speed of ~21 knots.
If VSTEP model this, then I think it'd be a very useful training aid to Deck Cadets and others moving to podded ships....
-
i allways thought the turning was poor and at full speed did not turn with with force a ship of that size may
-
in the add-on to 06 didnt the ocean star have bow and stern thrusters? ??? ???
-
in the add-on to 06 didnt the ocean star have bow and stern thrusters? ??? ???
she had, but it's totally useless now, with azipod thrusters !
-
she had, but it's totally useless now, with azipod thrusters !
yes quite right if you have azipod thrusters you have 360 degree steering
-
i don't like pods........ i turn my wheel one way ship goes the other way ....
rot poor as well
i'm probably getting too old for new tricks
i am 23 after all, give me a break
captain jack
-
well pods are what this ship has so i dont think it will change
-
I dont like the pods either :-X
In fact i dont even know how to use them so I just press UP and DOWN keys all the time >:(
King Regards
Microsoft
-
Well, if you put the mouse cursor on it you see 3 rings. The the inner ring is for the direction of the pod, the 2nd is for the trottle and the 3rd is to operate the direction and trottle at the same time. Just try it, if you get the going of it, you can make some pretty awsome manoeuvres with it.
-
I am very doubtful. Id rather do my existing techique of pressing UP when on cameras 1,2,4,5 which is much easier and is the same thing.
-
I love this setup. You can do everything you could've done with her in SS06 and more. @ microsoft: The little arrows on the pods are whatever way the propellors are "Blowing"
-
I dont like the pods either :-X
In fact i dont even know how to use them so I just press UP and DOWN keys all the time >:(
King Regards
Microsoft
You should not bring back a topic 3 months dead.
-
You should not bring back a topic 3 months dead.
Oh well. Whats done is done. We can not change that now. Well actually mods can but we wont get into that. lol.
-
I’m surprised you guy’s took “Microsoft†seriously. He has obviously been spouting nonsense. He has probably secured an early release, is off his meds, and going ape.
-
Agent, I am replying to the first ever post to this topic. I am SURE that when a topic exists for three months they are NOT concidered dead. Mate please, READ the topic explanation first, then say what youb think is wrong. I have NOT broken the rules here by posting back to a topic.
And Mvsmith... nah I cant be bothered to reply to unpleasent and OFFENCIVE posts. I have reported it. :'(
Regards
Microsoft
-
Ok. Great you Reported it.
it isnt a rule against open a old topic. but it will come up as a tip :)
-
same i hate the controls because whe u use the arrow keys to turn the ship pord or starbord it douesent turn back like the outhers :-\ >:(
-
Hi guys,
When I first got Ocean Star in NH, I thought the pods were bad to.
But after a while, I thought i'll take my time and figure it out. it didn't take long, and now I can control OS just like any other ship ;)
-
One thing though, if you use reverse thrust and turn the pods 180, its top speed is 24kn. also if you try to turn from that e.g. to port it will only go starboard, and it doesn't quite act properly when you do that.
-
One thing though, if you use reverse thrust and turn the pods 180, its top speed is 24kn. also if you try to turn from that e.g. to port it will only go starboard, and it doesn't quite act properly when you do that.
Then you just have to hit the opposite.
-
And Ship Simulator 2008 is build to be a realistic simulation.
and here you got a realestic simulation.
with a realestic Steering.
-
And Ship Simulator 2008 is build to be a realistic simulation.
and here you got a realestic simulation.
with a realestic Steering.
Correct, The Azipods offer many great things that you peole arnt using.
-
yep ur right ;) :)
-
Well I hope I figure it out soon... If not, Never.
-
I don't know if it's just my machine but if I am going ahead, turn the pods to face sternwards the ship speeds up instead of slowing. I don't see that as being realistic as claimed.
-
I have to hook up with the vast majority of this discussion - Azimuth Pods Rules. 8)
At first I was also a little confused with the ship going the opposite direction of the obvious possition of the steering-stick/controllers, but as others have mentioned, sailing a little around in the F.Roaming-mode soon lets You discover the wonderful new world of azipods - maneuveres you couldn't even perform in a car... :D
As to reliability of the system - I think as it goes for anything "newly" developed - children's disseases are inevidible - I think RollsRoyce/KaMeWa have also had their share of beginners problems with Waterjets...
Another great bonus, besides the navigational, of the Azipod-Ship or should I say Diesel/Electric driven vessels, as many of the cruiseships are, is that the torque-stabile electroengines, which are often located directly in the pod, gives a seemless, compared to conventional diesel or gas turbine driven propulsions, almost vibration-free thrust.
-
The azipods take a while to turn around so you will speed up to start with, also @firestar whatever way you turn it, it always goes starboard
-
The azipods take a while to turn around so you will speed up to start with, also @firestar whatever way you turn it, it always goes starboard
Always goes to Starboard? So its impossible to make a left-hand turn? Hmm...Its not the game, Its something to do with your PC. Maybe a reinstall? Because i can turn left.
-
What, whilst reversed azipods and reverse thrust? (going forward)
It turns normally if i use the azipods normally, nd i only just reinstalled onto another hard drive (it seems to have fixed the error on exit)
-
http://www.shipsim.com/ShipSimForum/index.php/topic,9012.msg104382.html#msg104382 (http://www.shipsim.com/ShipSimForum/index.php/topic,9012.msg104382.html#msg104382)
http://www.shipsim.com/ShipSimForum/index.php/topic,9012.msg104399.html#msg104399 (http://www.shipsim.com/ShipSimForum/index.php/topic,9012.msg104399.html#msg104399)