Ship Simulator
English forum => Ship Simulator Extremes => Topic started by: UTSIRA on November 02, 2010, 21:43:26
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My friend asked if this was a sim or a game, while lining up the Pride of Rotterdam RoRo ferry on linkspan 9 Dover UK., The one P&O get to use most of the time..( Only for some reason there was no linkspan 9 as such but there were two marked number 8 ). Cast off and out to sea, he got as far as the outer breakwater before I replied ‘If it’s a game get down on your hands and knees and rejoice, that Dover and Calais are on the same map. If it’s a sim then stay there and start preying …….’ I don’t want to burst anyone’s bubbles but the average 12 year old Naval Cadet knows more about maritime practice then what is going on here, for our beautiful ship is nowhere near SOLAS compliant. It’s the reason why there are no crew, mostly because no crew would sign up to work on a ship run like this…. Even ‘Sim’s ‘ are not that stupid.
Rewind ……… Lets look for the sea door indicator panel, before we cast off, so we can close the water tight doors / bulkhead doors ……… I couldn’t find any to close mostly because there were no water tight sea doors / bulkhead doors to close, no stern ramps to lift, no warning alarms, no bow visor to shut. That there were no door indicator lights, no ballast function to trim the ferry, no fuel gauge, no fuel supply, just no fuel, a ferry this size would have multiple fuel tanks and probably a mixture of oil and diesel as well as bunker fuel. There would be an engine control room full of gauges and switches and a main switch that allows the ship to be controlled from the bridge or from that control room and the ships engineers would monitor important things like fuel pumps, oil leaks, exhaust gas temperatures and be able to start and stop engines, deploy stabilizers and check for engine faults etc, etc .
And then there is the routine stuff of life on most ships like getting the crew to practice fire or lifeboat drills and emergency helicopter landings, checking the hull / bilge for cracks, help load and unload the vehicles and maintain a safe load spread, sign off the cargo / passenger manifest, secure clearance from customs / immigration / port heath authority and anyone else who might require some kind of permission. Remove waste and grey water, dirty laundry and replace with clean goods. Also restock the galleys with food and the duty free shop with goods and clean the ship. Most of that list is done for real but I guess it would be a very abstract in a simulator especially the day to day crew tasks but what can be simulated and what is so obvious is that I was on a ship that was effectively going to sea with no ship to shore or ship-to-ship communication, that I wouldn’t be able to inform Calais of my ETA and Calais wouldn’t be able to tell me if they had closed their port. ( For strikes, weather or security reasons ) I was now entering into the busies shipping lanes in the world and I couldn’t contact Dover Coast Guard to tell them, I couldn’t contact Dover Port to say that I was actually leaving and I couldn’t contact the company to inform them that yes today we did have an on time departure. I’m sure someone would want to know where their ships are at any given time, company agent, Government official or anyone …………. And I couldn’t contact my deck officer on the two way radio to check if the stern lines had been cast-off before I ordered the ship to sea ……. Oh, I forgot he never signed on ..Yeak ! Even I from the comfort of my own computer can check where ships are for real by going to http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/ . Go check the number of ships parked outside Rotterdam and just how many transit the Dover Straits / Pas de Calais its amazing……….. Now imagine .. No communication … ???
Equally the sim passengers on board the vessel the same ones that I was supposedly in charge of as the Captain of the ship had somehow all blindly followed each other on board and quite happily parked their vehicles,( How many are on board is just a mystery ) then I presume that they all make their way top sides totally unaided with out any messages, greetings or announcements either in French or English and all were equally happy to go off to sea with out even a rudimentary safety message. I’m sure the Health and Safety Department at the EU headquarters in Brussels would be overjoyed.
Am I expecting to much …?? I didn’t check to see about navigation, charts, buoys, tides, wind speeds etc, etc I’m guessing that they aren’t there…. I’m guessing when the average truck sim has more working gauges and switches then this; I didn’t think there was any need to.
Having said all of the above I would actually be overjoyed to buy this package as a ‘ Game ‘ I would be very disappointed if I was buying it as a simulation.
Now where’s that helmsman wander off to ….
My friend still thinks he’s operating a sim as in ‘ As Real As It Gets ‘. That is why I am posting these words, as I know he reads this forum. As for me I have just installed ship sim 2008 mostly because there is no way that my computer could power ‘Extremes’ and yes I am happy with what I have got. I will say that the ships are graphically modelled to a good standard and that the scenery is way, way better then comparable games and the whole thing is very passable to the average RoRo passenger or person in the computer store, in their guess of how things work on these ships. In that sense V-Step have done a good job and should be congratulated, after all my friend is convinced. Unfortunately to anyone who knows anything about ships, unless one is prepared to overlook all of the above and more then this game isn’t going to fore fill many expectations………
The makers should probably drop the word simulator from the title and add extremely powerful computer required in bigger then big letters starting with Warning …………….. and then a list on their website as to what not to expect.
SOLACE Compliant … Sorry it is not. ………..Calling this a Ship Simulator is being a bit disingenuous .. It is loosely sort of simulating a basic ship / ferry package where by ones imagination has to fill in the gaps and it will work fine as long as ones expectations do not run riot ( having to stream it from a Cd is another issue as there is no mention of this when the CD is purchased .. tut. ). Calling it a credible game .. Yes it’s probably fair to say that it is. Could it be used as a commercial or naval training tool… Well look at it like this, you would put a big smile on the recruiting officers face and his staff would be falling over themselves laughing in the back office if you told them that you actually trained up using this programme and they would probably point to the park rowing pool as an alternative occupation. On the other hand it’s the closes that I will ever get to being a captain of a RoRo ferry. Its kind of Catch 22. Its probably the best product on the market only it falls way to short of being a simulation.
For anyone who is interested in what SOLAS is follow link below.
( http://www.imo.org/conventions/contents.asp?topic_id=257&doc_id=647 )
Advice : Get an extremely powerful computer and rain in the expectations.
Footnote: The POR probably wouldn’t fit the Dover linkspans and the cars would be stuck on the mid vehicle deck as Dover has no side loading car ramps and the foot passengers would have to leave via the tail ramp in Greek island style as Dover doesn’t have any side gangways either ………..
Conclusion: I hope that V-Step push on with the project and I do wish them well in that regard. Adding mission, scenery and ship programme editors would help enormously to create a longer lasting community and extended the product. At least a repaint programme to repaint some generic AI ships, as there’s nothing worse then entering a harbour only to find the same vessel that you are piloting also arriving and departing. What’s the chance of that happening for real and besides isn’t there a maritime law that no two ships can be registered with the same name at the same time, something to do with insurance. Perhaps there should be layers of realism so that the customer can choose which best suits their requirements. Lets face it some people have more free time then others, ramping up a sim to as real as it gets can also eat up a lot of time on a single mission, but the customer should at least have that choice and that way perhaps the sim / game would then for fill more peoples requirements. As for me I will just have to wait until I obtain a computer that can actually move this power hungry monster. ………Who knows what will evolve in the meantime. So I return to a newly installed Ship Sim 2008 and wait 5 years ……… Laters then ..
Oh hello everyone :thumbs:
PS: and to my mate, if your reading this. Just remember that you are going to need more then this to become a real RoRo ferry captain .. :doh:
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I can understand your point, but that's definitely asking far too much of the game :doh:
The Professional version of the game (NAUTIS) is very advanced but don't think it has even all of those things!
VSTEP as a small company are pushing the limits of their technology and over time it is getting better.
But hey ho, for the moment we will just have to illegally sail the seven seas kicking SOLAS aside :P.
But for the moment it sure is the most realistic simulation.
Am I right or am I right?
Virtual Sailor doesn't offer the same experience as this game, with the same quality of graphics.
Even though they may have aimed a weeny bit too high in their objectives!
Unfortunately lots of those things may never come into the game, as they even didnt include the bouyage system becuase they wanted people to spend thousands of euros just for the 'real' simulation.
As a fear that big companies would buy the cheaper game version. ::)
I'm sure your friend will get more experience out of this game rather than playing plastic ships on his bedroom floor :doh:
Kind Regards
Matthew
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I take it then UTSIRA, that you are a fully qualified seafarer with many years of practical experience. ::)
Just one small point, driving ships round a computer screen is for entertainment and pleasure. The real stuff can ONLY be learnt on a real ship.
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I thought it might be something like that so it’s a good job that I left the technical stuff out. .. I did question myself when I said ‘ Was I expecting to much…??’ Only its just that is what a lot of people are actually expecting ……… If that comes as a bit of a shock then you know what can I say. That is what a lot of your customers are actually expecting from this game but to my credit I did also mention ‘ rain in the expectations ‘
As for my friend he believes that this is all there is to it so I was trying to tell him that there was more, like a lot more only he wouldn’t believe me so I said that I would write something on the forum and then he just might ……….
I am not in any way disparaging the product just pointing out what could actually make it a better product and I think that V-Step have done a credible job .. I did say so and I also said that its probably the best product on the market and it is the closest that most people will get to actually being in charge of a Ro Ro ferry.
I don’t think SOLAS should be totally kicked to one side as it is the core of modern day maritime practice. See its that word ‘ simulator ‘ that is slightly misleading. Only you cannot run modern day ships with out SOLAS …………..
I wouldn’t speak badly about Virtual Sailor as it is a separate product and there is no one to speak up for it on this forum. I would say that the two games have many similarities and both have their good and bad points. More or less both products can do the same thing, only Ship Sim is better on the graphics and scenery side and overall usability but Virtual Sailor has the ship editing programmes.
I don’t think that any company big or small would use the game version as a training tool as it just wouldn’t be accepted as credible in the maritime industry. SOLAS is a big thing in the maritime world and as you readily kick it to one side then no credible maritime training company big or small would us this. The larger version for sure but not the game version.
I never said that my friend plays plastic toys on his bedroom floor..just that he might be slightly deluded into what a RoRo ferry Captain actually does …… but he is also very much a big fan of this game. Well that was until you suggested that he plays with plastic ships on his bedroom floor..
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Angus wins, with four aces.
:evil: ;D
Even with its shortcomings, there are quite a few maritime agencies that use this game/simulator (or the 2008 or even the 2006 versions) for training purposes. And quite a good number put their hands in their pockets and purchase the PRO version (Nautis).
There are NO simulators on the market that can model every aspect of every type of ship. All of them concentrate on various aspects of it. Some concentrate on an extremely limited number. "Radar simulator" is one such. There is just a radar screen and the operator learns to handle that and provide information to the person pretending to handle the navigation.
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For sure you can learn the basics on a computer but you have to go to sea to do the real stuff. Computer simulations are used of course they are but I don’t think that many actually compare to real tides and winds or sea state conditions ……… That is why there is years and years of learning and sea experience before one can get to be in charge of any half decent ship.
I’m not in a position to say who buys what and who uses what. May be I am but I am not going to, be that as it may those training companies would have to upgrade to the
PRO version to retain any credibility. No student is going to wander into any maritime college knowing that the game version is all they have to train on. So what’s the worry about slightly enhancing the game product. If the game product is outstanding then the PRO version, it would follow would be even more so im sure any enhancements could only make the PRO version better and therefore become an even better training programme that these companies would want to buy. I’m sure a lot of British Airways pilots have used Microsoft Flight sim but they wouldn’t use that computer model to pass their final exams on or for advanced training.
For sure every computer game is a matter of balancing what is workable and what is reasonable within the limits of the actual computer programme to what is affordable and to what is likely to sell.
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SOLAS...Okay, I give up. What is SOLAS? Never heard of it. Is it some sort of computer virus that will prevent me having fun driving ships and completing missions around the world?
It might be nice if acronyms are defined before use so that idiots like me could understand what people are on about, especially if they are used in the post heading. I know there was a link near the end of your post to some sort of reference, but by then my eyes had started to glaze over.
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International Convention for the Safety of Life at Sea (SOLAS)
hope that helps
Eric
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Did the box for the game when you bought it, say "SOLAS compliant"?
If not, I can't see why you couldn't have changed your angle from "I'm incredibly dissapointed" to "could you consider these changes to make it SOLAS compliant" and then list them.
That would've been way more productive ;D
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That’s a very good point Vige.
The use of the word “simulator†in the title of a game, or on the box, does not imply anything about the accuracy, realism, or degree of details. It is, by itself, a vague term for something that mimics, to some degree, the behavior of some object or system.
For that reason, the argument implied in the topic title is silly.
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http://www.vstep.nl/news/20101026/vstep_delivers_nautis_software_for_270degree_class_a_simulator
This is an example of what Vstep produce for the professional market. That is a very nice view of Buenos Aires harbour there, very realistic I think. Unless I am sadly mistaken SS Extremes is marketed as a PC game, not a professional simulator. There is somewhat of a difference, both in price AND content. ::)
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SOLAS compliant? Do you expect a fully detailled simulator for that price? I would say the life at say on SSE is absolutely SOLAS compliant because you can every time switch the computer off or restart the mission and everyone is healthy again...hey, that´s cool, I wish the was also possible on the Titanic accident or the tanker Erika accident...
I also agree that there could be some things more realistic or added. As I flew many years the flight simulator and saw the developments within the years there I compare it a bit to that. And even the flight simulator also startet as a realy simple game, 20 years ago there were not the technically possibilities to make a better game. But today they are there. So some things could really be made more realistic regardless if it is a game or a simulator. In a game for more fun and more settings and in a simulation for the realistic. At the moment I think the SSE it is more neither a game or a simulator than both of it.
I fortunately first tested the SSE before I bought it and knew what I had to expect. Otherwise I also could have been a bit disappointed. But I bought it and I am really happy with it becaues it is the only sim/game for that reasonable price (oh I would love it to have a real VSTEP simulator in my cellar!!!!)
best regards
Ingo
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The problem with this simulator, Utsira, is not if we have all those things you mention in your extensive post. I`m basically agree with you. Maybe we must admit it would be a huge work along years...
The problem is what kind of development want`s VStep for this simulator. It passed five years since the first edition and the comments in the software magazines examining this simulator, repeat the same word: "lifeless". "A simple clinic exercise to go from point A to point B".
We can understand the physics and dynamics not be like a professional simulator of thousands of Euros. A simulations is always a reality simplification. And we have personal computers between 1000 and 1500 Euros generally.
However, it would be time to introduce some other aspects related with the ships and the ports. There's no rules in the ports in the simulator. Acoustic signals, lighting signals, division traffic lines.¡¡¡ For God blessed, there's no lighthouses in the simulator!!!; the most popular and known maritime facility. This simulator need some of the strategy:" Captain, you must arrive on time to catch the favorable tide. You need put your ship on adequate draft. Do you think unballast on your trip or in your anchorage. It would be interesting this simulator had a time compression to do that; very typical performance in this kind of software. Is only a little supposition among the many of them. All of us, I think we are dreaming awake.
Well friends I thik I`m embroiling myself. Greeting
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A Reply to Tinchu
Hello Friend
I only came on this forum to point out to a somewhat misguided friend that there was more, a lot more to being in charge of a Ro Ro ferry then what is currently found with in Extremes. I apologise if it was slightly tongue in cheek in places but it was what was required trust me he really needed to get his feet back on the ground and people have thanked me at this end.
I am new to all this and I don’t normally sign onto forums mostly because I do not have that much spare time. Im not really on here to lead a major charge into trying to get more content into the whole thing it is very evident that only V –Step will provide what they actually want to provide. That is fine by me it is after all their game. I sign into it or I buy it if I think it is good enough. Its an open question if I purchase any further product all depending upon its content. ( I don’t think that I would want to buy into a stream unknowingly ) I doubt that anything that I wrote about SOLAS will actually be introduced having said that, Yes I agree with you that it would be a huge work to place all or some of what I wrote into the game.
I do think that V- Step had missed a few simple tricks in not providing extra switches to flick, buttons to press, that make the required sound and activate something for that added sense of realism and interaction. I would have thought that there would have been a greater interaction with port authorities built into the whole thing. There is much to be gained by putting the human element into any sim / game. What I also noticed with the rest of the game is how little any of it related to the real commercial world. All those freighters, cargo and container ships are run as on time operations only in this game there doesn’t appear to be anything to indicate if a ship can stay in harbour one hour or five years. Well it is one direction to go. Yes I totally understand a company not wanting to produce an excellent package that can be purchased for a cheaper price and used to do basic training. Only I am sure adding things like fuel and ballast systems and factor in some reason to gain on time arrivals and departures would enhance the game without damaging the Pro version. In the real world captains get it in the neck ( told off by the company ) if they are late without having a good enough reason that is why ships are driven through storms. Its not what many captains would elect to do, only commercial pressure demands that they have to.
But like I said perhaps there should be levels of realism ……. Talking of which …. Lighthouses .. I never even noticed .. Such a basic thing . I haven’t been running the game that often so I am sure there are loads more things missing. I did notice that there are no building lights at night in the New York harbour. Manhattan the most lit up area in the world sits as a dark zone on my computer. It’s also a shame that there is no Staten Island Ferry terminal or Staten Island Ferry’s surely the centrepiece of any activity at Battery Park, that and the small ferry that takes passengers to visit the Statute of Liberty.
I am sure that you could add a list as long as my own as to what is missing, Traffic Flow Control, harbour management, speeds etc, etc and in a way it would be interesting to see what you come up with but I don’t think it will make much difference to the current game. I don’t know what to really think. I know that in the real world P&O can use up to 7 car ferries on the Dover – Calais route and each one makes 5 cross Channel return journeys over a 24 hour period I’m not to sure what Sea France does but they probably have a similar amount of tonnage dashing back and forth. Only I no longer expect this game to ever come close to achieving that I guess that I am now passive about the whole thing as people on here have already mentioned. This is a game and not a simulator and it is likely to remain that way for many years to come. I now see it and relate to it as a game and not a simulation.
I wish you and everyone on here well and I wish V – Step every success with both this product and the Pro version and any future products.
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SOLAS compliant? Do you expect a fully detailled simulator for that price?
I believe that this is possible. You only have to look at Microsoft's Fight Sim X. It is a full Simulator to the point where it is used by Airlines and approved by Aviation Authorities as a base for flight training. I think it is even cheaper than Ship sim extremes.
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Reply to KiwiSailor
Hello Mate.
I also think that it is possible to put together a fully working and comprehensible maritime / ship simulation with in a basic PC package for roughly the same sales price as Microsoft’s Flight sim programmes.
Only this is not going to be that computer game / model and I doubt that it will ever get close to meeting the expectations of the many, many people out there who would like to see a half decent comprehensible ship simulator.
Its quite obvious in reading back a few pages in this forum that the makers have a set agenda and that the moderators fall into line on the company policy. This is Ok it is their game and it is the line that they choose to follow. It is almost as if they are living in fear of their own product. I already know that it is pure nonsense about using this PC game as a training tool, the game is so limited in scope that beyond the basics it would rapidly become useless after a few hours in any professional maritime college.
Besides the last ship I was on I spent more time operating the ships systems on a computer screen then actually looking out of the window even the ships course was operated via the computer system once out to sea and we didn’t need a helmsman until we picked up a pilot at our destination port. Oh for sure we had look outs using the old Mk 1 eyeball, only like some aspects of this game boredom was their biggest chore, mostly because we had rapid response radar that would monitor every ship within a 50 mile radius big or small and automatically track any collision courses there was also a very expensive real time GPS system and we knew exactly where we were to with in 50 meters night and day any where in the world. All the cargo was constantly monitored via a different computer and the computer even guided the container crane to pick up the required sea containers automatically without the need for a crane operator. I could go on but you get the point.
Ship sim extremes cannot do any of that and it probably never will. It is a very basic package that masquerades as something more. It covers the requirements of the average shop / store computer gaming buying public as to what they probably guess is going on but as with most guesses they are so wide of the mark it is funny.
Also it says on the tin; sail ships around the world. Only Norway and Denmark are not even on the map two great nations with very strong nautical roots and proud sea traditions ( I know for sure that a certain Danish company moves a huge number of sea containers across the world on a daily basis) . So I wouldn’t hold out to much to see your native New Zealand in this game series for quite awhile yet.
The problem for this game is that there aren’t any editing programmes or construction programmes with tutorials so that third party ships and scenery could be added or scenery modified. Ok for sure V – Step is running a construction competition. Only that is like supporting a football team. One hopes that the new content will meet with the required needs, only as most fans know with any football team you will never get a say as to who picks the team or how it operates…. But as I said it is their game we are mere operators we can choose to operate or watch TV. From reading many of the back pages on this forum I suspect that a lot of former customers are actually watching TV or have simply moved on to some other past time like Bus sim or Truck sim or they take out their frustrations by doing some special forces missions etc, etc Unlike most … I have a third option.. I can actually go off and do this for real ………… The reason why I haven’t got a powerful PC is that I was never at home to use it. The reason why I looked at the package is that I wanted to see what it was like to be on the bridge of a big RoRo ferry .. Just curious I guess ……….
I would say that this is still a good quality ship game and probably the best that is out there at this moment in time ( That’s if you can get it to work ) Only one has to bear in mind that its operable in a limited fashion with very limited controls, workable opportunities or human inter actions and you are probably looking at a 1980’s technology spec for the ship operating system, with a 1940’s radar and a 18th Century communications system . ( Morse code is more advanced then any communications system found with in the game and no one uses Morse code any more that’s how old the games communication system is ……….. )
Anyways, good luck in trying to get anything extra installed.
Oh and V- Step thank you for the Jumbo Javelin it is a beautiful model.
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Utsira.
I totally agree with you. I have worked on 60m plus Fishing vessels around New Zealand and have had the pleasure in going to the Antarctic fishing as well. I have been to Norway and completed a delivery Voyage of a New Trawler from Kristensund to Nelson New Zealand over a 43 day voyage. I guess I would have the same qualifications as an advanced Able Seaman. I have work for Maritime training schools as a tutor and assessor and still currently do some training. I was thinking this game would be just like Flight Sim X and be a simulation so I could get my students to learn from it. I was thinking rules of the road, buoys and beacons, and basic maneuvering would be good subjects to teach. Lets hope that this game can over time be upgraded to Sim status with little quirks that vessels have being added.
Sail safe.
Nick.
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So where I can buy NAUTIS for my PC? and does the bridge comes included on the price? btw need to know its size of the bridge to see if it can fit in my living room ;)
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I find it funny that both of you refer to FSX as a flightsim, with it's crappy physics and damage model, and laughable weather modelling. Even IL-2 Sturmovik in it's earliest forms was more pure than FSX.
If you're really that unhappy with SSE, take it back to where you bought it from and exchange or ask for a refund.
Never for a moment did I expect that this game/sim/whatever you want to call it be so rich in detail that I would be aghast with awe. You pay 40-50 euro for a game like this and expect it to be SOLAS compliant? That's unrealistic.
And a "half decent comprehensible ship simulator"? How many half decent comprehensible ship simulators are out there mate? Did it ever occur to you that development is equal to time + resources + money and not to mention a captive audience? How many people buy ship sims? This genre is a niche product, like FSX but with a lesser following. I do think over time that VSTEP will make this product designed for the non-trained merchant sailor palatable, but others will never be happy with it. C'est la vie...
I really think your expections are at the moment beyond what SSE can provide you Ultsira. I'm no expert but I think you need to look at a product that's going to match your training - if you can pay for it ;)
Better still - form a software development company, build a team of coders and make it happen :thumbs:
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Well said, Vige.
My SILF project got a hit.
(Search for Intelligent Life on the Forum)
Regards,
Marty
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I have a strong feeling that many folks have got the wrong idea of what Ship Simulator is all about. Perhaps if it were named "Ship Handling Simulator" the concept would be more understandable. It matters little how much fancy modern equipment there is on the bridge of a modern vessel, when it comes down to handling the vessel it is down to old fashioned seamanship and hard learned experience. The very extensive equipment provided on a ship has very little, if anything, to do with coming alongside a berth, physically avoiding collisions, and generally manoeuvring without damage to the vessel. Even an ultra modern Cruise liner which has azipod drives and bow thrusters still relies on her masters' ship handling ability to enter and berth without the use of tugs. A classic example of this could be seen when Queen Mary 2 entered the river Mersey recently. Whilst there were tugs standing by, in case of need, the ship made a 1800 turn and laid alongside the floating pier without them. Seamanship of first class by the pilot and master of the ship, not down to fancy equipment at all.
I would describe that sort of thing as what Marty calls intelligent life. ::)
Regards,
Angus.
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Well said, Vige.
My SILF project got a hit.
(Search for Intelligent Life on the Forum)
Regards,
Marty
:D :D
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I have a strong feeling that many folks have got the wrong idea of what Ship Simulator is all about. Perhaps if it were named "Ship Handling Simulator" the concept would be more understandable. It matters little how much fancy modern equipment there is on the bridge of a modern vessel, when it comes down to handling the vessel it is down to old fashioned seamanship and hard learned experience. The very extensive equipment provided on a ship has very little, if anything, to do with coming alongside a berth, physically avoiding collisions, and generally manoeuvring without damage to the vessel. Even an ultra modern Cruise liner which has azipod drives and bow thrusters still relies on her masters' ship handling ability to enter and berth without the use of tugs. A classic example of this could be seen when Queen Mary 2 entered the river Mersey recently. Whilst there were tugs standing by, in case of need, the ship made a 1800 turn and laid alongside the floating pier without them. Seamanship of first class by the pilot and master of the ship, not down to fancy equipment at all.
I would describe that sort of thing as what Marty calls intelligent life. ::)
Regards,
Angus.
Nah, not "Ship Handling Simulator. A better title would be "Ships for Kids" ::) :P ;)
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Suit yourself. :-*
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I find it funny that both of you refer to FSX as a flightsim, with it's crappy physics and damage model, and laughable weather modelling. Even IL-2 Sturmovik in it's earliest forms was more pure than FSX.
If you're really that unhappy with SSE, take it back to where you bought it from and exchange or ask for a refund.
I understand what you are saying here. Yes FSX was a bit of dog when it came out. I have said in another post that Ship sim has the potential to be a great simulator with a lot more work. I can see the developer adding seas and ports and ships to the sim as they go and charging a suitable fee, which will make this a better product. As I have said in another post I have spent about $1000 upgrading FSX with new Aircraft with better flight modelling and also a new weather programme, which in my Flying experience is very realistic. I work for one of the worlds leading airlines and several of my pilot friends have used my simulator and say it is pretty true to life. I can not take Ship sim back for a refund as it was downloaded from the site. I am willing to wait until the patches come out to see where the sim goes. Who knows other companies may invest in this product and create addons as well.
Cheers.
8)
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My, my Global moderators. Why so defensive ……. Its only a game.
As moderators, representatives, sales people you guys are doing a wonderful job of destroying V – Step’s reputation as a serious games provider and at times your attitude is aggressive even hostile and it appears any time there is even a hint of something odd about this game you seem to ride to its defence without actually debating the fundamentals of any point even findings that could actually make for a better product. You only ever pick up on the bad points .. I have said on several occasions that this is a good ship game and probably the best there is currently on the market. It seems that you are not reading and understanding what is written. You talk of intelligent life but you don’t seem to be able to understand your own customer’s requirements and expectations, so how is there ever going to be any improvement to this product if there is no where to point things out to you without you taking offence all of the time. … ???
I am not alone it seams .. Just go to Amazon UK site and look at the reviews. There are 17 reviews, 2 people gave 5 stars ( Only they look suspiciously as being attached to this forum ) and 12 of them give you guys a 1 star rating out of 5. ( 1 star being the worst ) and someone called Lisa who bought this game for her son actually stated that she would have given it a ‘ 0 ‘ if she could . Yes that was a zero. . If that is not ringing any bells then there is nothing that I can write on here that is going to help you put together a better game that people actually expect. Those same people with those same expectations are your customers if you don’t listen to them and help them then your product is not going to sell and people will have doubts about buying into a new version that’s if you have enough sales revenue to support a new edition. You have already stopped supporting ship simulator 2008 and I suspect leaving many of your older customers feeling somewhat bemused even abandoned as through no fault of their own their computer is not up to the demands of the new game and therefore will be unable to extend the life of a product that they bought in the last few years… Some will be asking themselves no doubt if it would be worth while buying into a new version ( not everyone is in the position to go out and buy a new PC every time a new game comes out) You guys have much to learn about supporting old versions of products and maintaining your customer base. There are many , many people out there who still use Flight sim 2004 and Trainz 2004 and they do so because you can still down load new products for both those computer games both free and pay ware. To me it seems crazy for you to be cutting off your own customers like that, many I suspect who will not bother coming back as they will simply move on to other things. You have already pointed out that this is a niche market with a smaller following then flight sim only you are not helping to make it any bigger. I would say after reading a lot of the reviews and also a lot of the comments on this forum that you are also alienating people. ……. You are therefore self-generating a shrinking market. Someone has already written on this forum that ‘ V – Step isn’t going to worry about loosing a customer ‘ Well with that kind of attitude and business model some day there aren’t going to be enough customers left to actually warrant publishing a new version and then you will be on a forum that has mostly failed to debate anything that would help to enhance this product.
As for seamanship most of the stuff you refer to is fine for 1940 / 1950 / 1960 a world of bulk break ships and tramp steamers unfortunately all that has been swept aside. Go look at the imported goods in any UK shop in any UK city. Most of them arrived via container ships. If we had to mess about with your version of seamanship then those same shops would be empty. The modern world doesn’t have time for pottering about in boats. The ships im on often arrive in port unloads 5000 containers, picks up an out going load and departs again with in 24 hours. Those same ships come from half way round the world and arrive on time every time. The customer doesn’t want to know how wonderful the seamanship is the people who buy the products don’t want to know how wonderful the seamanship is ( They just want to buy the goods )….. So who cares if the ships computer downloads real time weather reports and then automatically plots several courses with arrival times etc etc. I do not. The company doesn’t, the customers don’t and the people who buy the goods in the shops don’t ….. Which probably more or less leaves people like yourself and if fancy modern equipment is so bad then why are you operating a computer game on a computer which is trying to simulate ships jammed packed with fancy modern equipment.… ????
You bang on about seamanship only in this game you cannot even do your version of good old seamanship as there are no tides, currents, winds, marker buoys, lightships, lighthouses etc, etc Even the compass is only marked as N. E. S. W. where are the degrees ..? there is nothing to support a compass bearing …So how are you going to plot one. What are you going to do in open sea. …. Guess which way to go next. Perhaps ask a friendly passing container ship for directions and then are you still going to be doing that at night, in the fog …. ??
So tell me which equipment do you use in this game to navigate around the map … The so called Chart is actually mimicking a ground mapping GPS system, you know that fancy modern equipment. So no peeking at the GM GPS display … So how do you get from A to B …. …. ??
As for Microsoft Flight sim the US Navy uses it for pre flight training after one of their students passed out a few years ago with very exceptional ratings after using it to train up on.. On Mircosoft Flight Sim at least you can follow a compass course or a NDB bearing or a VOR bearing and you can also track a ILS. You can fly the Magenta line on the EFIS system and the EFIS ( Electronic Flight Instrument System ) system actually works along with the alarms. At least there is some sort of communication system and also some sort of traffic / flight control and yes planes do stop when they fuel runs out. There is also a payload system ( Load the aircraft to the max and it will not take off ) and you can set the aircraft to auto pilot and fly on the systems, some of the aircraft have got MCDU installed ( Multifunction Control Display Unit ) and workable flight management systems and the doors of the aircraft do open. The weather system is a little ropy but at least there is some wind and cross winds on landing and take offs and their scenery is lit at night and there is support for third party add-ons through various websites even support and add-on’s for older versions of flight sim with a lot of choice in both pay ware and free down loads of scenery, aircraft and support structures and what’s more you can edit the whole thing and even repaint the aircraft if you so desire.
To be fair it has taken a long time to get it there then again in many of those years it was being developed on some very limited computer systems with very limited computer programmes and the whole thing only got into its stride after Microsoft managed to develop its XP Programme to series 2 only along the way the programme makers did listened to people, especially people in the industry in an attempt to make the product better.
And yes I will write it again. This is a good ship game it is probably the best that there currently is on the market …… The 2008 version has got a very good and user friendly Mission Editor .. Only over all the whole thing has its limitations, limitations that you are not helping to address …. As JHB from Norway has so kindly called it this is ‘ Ship Handling Simulator for Kids ‘ so if that’s the level you want to remain at then I am happy for you I wish you well.
Kindest regards
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‘The makers also have an excellent Forum where technical help and comments on the game can be freely and openly discussed’ . Angus Traddles 30 April 2009 UK Amazon.
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Oh Really ………
I don’t think that you have discussed or debated anything that I wrote …. Don’t worry I will be returning to sea soon, you know ‘to how’s it’s done for real’ and leave you guys to your version. There is one other question I would like to ask before I go and I will ask that as a new topic ……
Below is a paragraph taken from an avsim forum from a pilot and programmer from PMDG … Posted 28 September 2010 - 05:41 PM
So lets talk about "realism" in the sim world for a moment: All of us on the PMDG development team are fairly heavy consumers of add-ons, and we frequently have internal discussions about quality, realism and detail. Specifically, we tend to focus on what makes one product truly stand out, while another product might not set the world on fire.
So how come PMDG can debate and find out what people require and then go on to enhance their product and you do not seam to be able to……. ???
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I do agree with you Utsira. :)
Yet, dealing with the subject of realism here seems to be rude and impolite.
But I was pleased to read your previous post as those from JBH.
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If I am allowed to, I would like to clear up a few items in UTSIRA's latest post. Firstly the moderators do not work for, nor are part of VStep. We happen to be volunteers who attempt to give help to players and to endeavour to keep some semblance of discipline on the forum.
As to myself, I make no bones whatsoever about either my age or my qualifications, as anyone is free to see in my profile, unlike others who I will not lower myself to name. Yes, I am what many would regard as an old wreck, who knows little of the present day world of shipping, but I do have a small modicum of experience, and I never sailed on a trampship. ::) So far though I fail to see where I have either insulted anyone or claimed to know everything there is to know about ships and shipping, once again unlike others.
I am only too well aware of the shortcomings of Ship Simulator Extremes as it is at present. Most of the complaints registered here on the open forum, were already reported to VStep who are currently working hard to correct things free of charge. One of the reasons, in my opinion, if I may be allowed to express an opinion of course, that the game is as it is right now is that the People at VStep endeavoured to produce a game incorporating a great deal of material which had been asked for by the numerous players of Ship Simulator 2008. Possibly it became a matter of overreaching the capabilities of the game. As I am not party to the principals at Vstep I cannot comment on this.
For UTSIRA to raise a comment I made in April of last year when he was not around and Ship Simulator Extremes did not exist is rather pathetic. But then, who am I to say so, I merely said what I observed at the time. It may come as a surprise to some that, in order to try to perform the tasks I have volunteered to do, I happen to read virtually everything that appears on the forum. I would be telling porkies if I were to say that I agree with all the stuff which is written here, but, again, this particular topic has neither been locked or removed unless I am mistaken. The contents have not been edited, nor altered in any way.
Please tell me when I have been either aggressive or even hostile to anyone, other than those who try to advertise on the forum or insist upon using foul language rather than discuss calmly and intelligently any topic they care to.
You see the interesting thing about so many of the insulting remarks which are made about we moderators seem to assume that it is perfectly OK for others to have opinions but not for us also to have opinions. These people do not know how much most folk care about the game and it's ability to give pleasure to many players.
Perhaps if those who are so keen to denigrate us were able to accept our criticism as well as dishing it out, the forum would be a more pleasant and happier place in which to participate.
I will conclude by saying that I feel very sorry that some members of the forum feel it quite acceptable to hurl insults about people who are here to help, merely because they do not happen to like what is said, and because they are so full of their own importance that they do not understand the views of others.
My regards to those who deserve them,
Angus.
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Well spoken, Agnus :2thumbs:
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Well said, Vige.
My SILF project got a hit.
(Search for Intelligent Life on the Forum)
Regards,
Marty
To me this is the type of stuff that makes me want to lash out and use foul language. To be in the positions that some on this forum are in or have been in on vessels takes a lot of experience, time and study. Sure some might not be of high intelligence about mathematics, world events, or anything that involves a university degree, but get them talking about their 1st love (sorry wife) the sea they could fill you with so much information you would be sitting down for hours. Seamanship is not something that any book can teach you. It must be learned at sea. Being down in the Southern Ocean in 15m seas in 65m Factory Trawler towing nets sometimes beam on, you learn why things need to be lashed down. You learn why hatch dogs need to be tight. You learn why portholes have 3 dogs around them to stop all that green water coming through them. Etc etc......
Hey I think we are all wanting one thing. We want a game or Sim to work as we want it, to give us hours of enjoyment. And that we can add ports, our favourite ships and oceans to the game to challenge those skills we are learning from this game. I think we all should work together and make this a awesome product.
:thumbs:
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Hear, Hear ! :thumbs:
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Hey I think we are all wanting one thing. We want a game or Sim to work as we want it, to give us hours of enjoyment. And that we can add ports, our favourite ships and oceans to the game to challenge those skills we are learning from this game. I think we all should work together and make this a awesome product.
+1 Kiwi old mate ;)
The lesson is: Patience brethren, the best is yet to come ;D
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I cant help but 100% agree with UTSIRA and the reply by Lalo. And I feel it important to vocalize my agreement. It does appear that user constructive criticism and making suggestions to improve realism is frowned upon here and sometimes illicits a harsh response from GMs. Maybe Im misunderstanding the overtones of the posts, but my objective here is to provide user feedback in a public forum. Sometimes the truth hurts and its not what developers what to hear. But in the end, I am the one paying for the EULA and software. The users critiques, suggestions and ideas should welcomed in these forums. Im glad there are thousands of customers who are happy with their SSE purchase; however, just because you have a lot of satisfied customers, doesn't mean the ones who AREN'T satisfied dont have something to say.
UTSIRA- again, very good post Mate!
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Vesselmate, the reason some of us responded to Ultsira the way we did was the title of this thread.
"Game or Sim .. ? Either way its not SOLAS compliant."
wtf. I'm thinking who is this guy, to start ranting at us and behaving like he didn't get his mchappy meal when SOLAS was never a goal of the sim, and was never implied that way.
I'm not a merchant sailor but it doesn't make me any less of a qualified person to offer opinions as to the quality of this game. I've only had it for two weeks but I'm happy with it and I'm prepared to go along with the bumps and jumps of development while the game MATURES. I've done this with other sims before and this is something I can honestly say I have experience in, watching games go from beta to final, and years later in development when mods and content enrich the experience. You never get this at release. FSX is just one sim that I can think of that did exactly the same thing guys. Remember the framerates before it started getting some decent patches and people started to upgrade their systems?
He has acknowledged the shortcomings of the game but has not considered changing the rather misleading title of his post which implies that VSTEP intended to make this SOLAS compliant but didn't. This is not the case at all.
By the way, I'm not a global moderator and don't intend to be, but I'll always step in if I see someone being overtly unreasonable which I think has happened here. I'll also do the same for those who jump on the bandwagon if they hold the posters view just to add 'votes' instead of being constructive. Just remember that the people who code this software never get enough credit for the work they do. It's not a gravy train.
I have even suggested to Ultsira that a commercial grade ship sim is probably what he needs and should pay for. It might cost him a bit more than the very reasonably priced SSE though.
Peace :thumbs:
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The nice thing about forums is that it gives people the chance to voice their opinions. I dont have to agree with yours, you with mine, etc, etc, ad nauseam... :) but nevertheless, it makes for a discussion, doesn't it?
It does seem though that the discussion goes around in circles and I dont think anyone is really being heard, because the same things are said--- with the same rebuttals.
Regardless of anything else- this is a fact: The "Ship SIMULATOR Extremes" title is misleading. Its been mentioned before that to argue over weather the term SIMULATOR is used is silly- and I dont think thats silly at all. Anyone with half a brain-cell knows what a simulator is. Anyone with simulator experience knows what one is. Myself with over 15 years simulator experience, this is NOT a simulator. Period. If you want to use the term 'Simulator', the product should reflect as much and not masquerade itself. Thats my beef, and I think that applies for others as well.
Rebuttal, anyone? :D
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Hi All
I have been reading the comments in some of these posts and here I have to say.
The statement that It does appear that user constructive criticism and making suggestions to improve realism is frowned upon here and sometimes illicits a harsh response from GMs.
Why on earth would v-step spend time ,money on a new product and then ignore the customers views
and criticism this would be financial suicide.
As moderator's we act on the content of the post not the criticsim or view
And yes we also have our view on what is wrong and are lucky in the fact we can tell them our views
more quickly than you but in saying that the forum is read by Frank& Pjotr on a daily basis so they are
aware of the feelings of member's customers.
Sometimes the truth hurts and its not what developers what to hear. But in the end, I am the one paying for the EULA and software. The users critiques, suggestions and ideas should welcomed in these forums.
Why on earth would V-Step not want to hear the truth if they do not get the true feedback to improve it then there is no game /sim.
We want a game or Sim to work as we want it, to give us hours of enjoyment. And that we can add ports, our favourite ships and oceans to the game to challenge those skills
In the end this is what we all want but being negative will soon bring all the hard work of the V-step team
to a grinding halt because Bad posts bad reviews do not sell a game.
So I myself would like to see a more positive attitude towards what is going to be the best addition to the
series yet.
But at the moment from what I am reading V-Step can not win no matter how hard they try some people
are out to down them & us moderators anyway.
Eric
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I must say, though, that sarcastic comments about "little boys playing with plastic boats on their bedroom floors" do little to endear the moderators to the users.
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OK Sadsid, I`m going to try to be positive. Perhaps our enthusiasm sometimes is excesive. At the end, this is a game. Many times our annoyance come from the mulfunction of the software, you must understand us. Here, we are not flying planes, of playing tetris; in a few minutes you have finished a game. But, for instead, you are executing a difficult maneuver along one hour and a half or more and when you are almost finishing successfully and... Just at this moment the simulator crashes. At that moment you would bite the jugular to somebody; and of course, you enter into the forum and...
Could we talk about some suggestions to improve the simulator?
-It would be possible to deploy the radar display and the map display, independently? And be able to see both in the console of the helmsman, closing the window in the upper right corner? At this moment if you choice to see one of them, the image of the other remains frozen.
-It would be possible to see in the console of the helmsman the pieces of information about the degrees of heading, knots of speed, rpm of engines and bow or stern thrusters?
The walkthrough mode is good... to move yourself in the bridge; from one side to another. When a ship is docking or undocking, a team of seamen with an officer locates on bow and other team locates on stern. It would be better subjective sights on those places.
What about a feflective focus in night missions? Is really difficult to see the things. If we have now watter cannons, why not "light cannons"?
Well, Sadsid, be sure I`ll make more suggestions. See you
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Hi Tinchu
The things you mention as well as other things have been looked at by V-step
some are being worked on some under disgustion and in time get into the game,
I look forward to you posting more its more pleasant to read a post like that
And believe me we all know the feeling of a crash after a lot of hard work geting
to were you thought you were going to finish. answer Save and save often
Regards Eric
Before anyone jumps on me yes I am aware of the save game fault I have it to
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For sure you can learn the basics on a computer but you have to go to sea to do the real stuff. Computer simulations are used of course they are but I don’t think that many actually compare to real tides and winds or sea state conditions ……… That is why there is years and years of learning and sea experience before one can get to be in charge of any half decent ship.
I’m not in a position to say who buys what and who uses what. May be I am but I am not going to, be that as it may those training companies would have to upgrade to the
PRO version to retain any credibility. No student is going to wander into any maritime college knowing that the game version is all they have to train on. So what’s the worry about slightly enhancing the game product. If the game product is outstanding then the PRO version, it would follow would be even more so im sure any enhancements could only make the PRO version better and therefore become an even better training programme that these companies would want to buy. I’m sure a lot of British Airways pilots have used Microsoft Flight sim but they wouldn’t use that computer model to pass their final exams on or for advanced training.
For sure every computer game is a matter of balancing what is workable and what is reasonable within the limits of the actual computer programme to what is affordable and to what is likely to sell.
I guess that's why you can't get your masters rating without actualling getting on a ship.
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UTSIRA, I'll give you +100 :thumbs:
EDIT: 10% of this thread is about the moderators, 90% is about the game...uhm, even the name of the topic got nothing to do with moderators. So, don't let's start the game called "I'm on UTSIRAs side and you are on the mods side"...?
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Yes JHB, the title of this topic is that SSE is not SOLAS compliant. Totally relevant if in some derranged way you thought that developers had advertised this as a feature of the game.
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I take exception to your post Vige. I am by far NOT a cheapsakte, as Ive invested well over $10,000USD in a flight simulation setup- and yes that was with a 59.99 base MS Flight Simulator. The rest is addons and professional hardware.
And now the conversation goes in another circle... MS PROFESSIONAL Simulator vs. this 'game'.
I remain firmly standing beside and supporting UTSIRA and JHBs posts.
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Yes JHB, the title of this topic is that SSE is not SOLAS compliant. Totally relevant if in some derranged way you thought that developers had advertised this as a feature of the game.
The title of this topic should be "Cheapskates who expect a commercial grade sim for the price of a non-commercial sim"
Sorry my Ozzie mate you are way off the mark here! As I have said like my other friend here I too have spent a lot of money upgrading FSX to an awesome product. It too came from a small base price just like this game. I think what we are all saying is once the bugs are ironed out we are more than willing to pay for add ons to this game as well.
Nick.
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I've removed the offending comment and offer my apologies ;D
I will say to all of those who have taken the original posters side here, I understand how frustrating it can be to have a product that doesn't work the way you had expected, but to attack the developer in the way that has been done here, IMHO has really not done anything to resolve the situation - it could have been handled better by being a little more understanding and perhaps some more specific direction of posts in appropriate forums, and perhaps a little less finger pointing.
Some direct emails to VSTEP might have also been helpful if they hadn't been done already.
Or if you want to use this thread to attack me, that's fine because I'll be avoiding it in the future. I only got involved in this thread because it looked like someone kicking someone while they were down.
Give VSTEP a chance guys. You might actually get what you want in the end. :)
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Thanks Vige.
I think a little more up to date info from V Step would be good. Just like before they told us what was coming up in the next update and a rough timeline. All people see, is advertising and going ahead with more activities but no mention of updates to fix bugs. I guess people feel they have paid money for a game and are having trouble with it so are wondering why sell it to others so they will be unhappy too? Sure the company needs funds to do the work on the game, people know it it will get there in the end, but is it better to make the current owners happy, so they go on the forums and reviews and rave about an awesome product, that you will spend hours and hard earned dollars to enjoy and want to add too? I guess this is what Vstep is having to weigh up. As a niche game they need people to be happy so they go out and recruit new players into the world of Ship sim. Just like you, I do not want to see things written here harm the project but more updates of information will make current users happy and new intending users the faith to go ahead and purchase it.
Cheers Nick.
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I just posted a few grumbles about the SS08 version not having GPS tied in to real charts. I see there is quite a thread with other, in my opinion more unreasonable requests.
As far as I can see Ship Sim is about as good as it gets, and it is pretty great in most respects.
I suggest starting with improving the small things - such as accurate GPS - lights - cardinal marker buoys - would be the place to start without meaning lots of development time and actually, having been an OOW in the RN, making it really, really, dull to play with!
If this happens I will upgrade to SSE!
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Ok gonna open my mouth here. I read and reread this thread. I got what I paid for. Nothing more nothing less. V-Step will get to fixing the problems as they can. I Being a Licensed Professional Mariner immensely enjoy Driving the ships and craft in this version. I see it as a way to relax and treat it as therapy since I am physically unable to get back on the water. As far as SOLAS and STCW compliant I don't feel that this needs to be. As has said if you want to get the perfect SOLAS and STCW compliant then by all means ditch this and go spend the thousands of dollars, franks, Ausie bucks, Canadian dollars, pounds or what ever your currency of choice is.
I just cant stand people who come to a forum and start blasting at someone or some entity that their person or product doesn't meet the requirement they need.
In closing I have problems with the game but those problems have already been reported and so I await V-Steps fixes. Don't come here ruining it for the few that have patience and understanding.
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Hello, bsm2003. You can be sure that I`m very patient person and I support VStep in this project. I`m not interested in ruining this project. At any case VStep can ruin or succeed in this project with their policy, not a few hotheaded people in this forum.
You are a professional seaman. I don`t know exactly what are you expecting about a game simulator. I don`t know either if you knew the previous editions of ship simulator. In SS08 you had a complete information on the top of the screen. The map; which never was a wonderful thing, included more information than now. It had many icons on the bottom right corner on the screen with many functions. It had too more sight options. You could change the settings without to abandon a mission...
Yes, of course, I know your answer and the moderators answer... In next patch... without to specify what patch.
You must admit, at least, that is not a good business policy to release a new version and that version be less playable than previous version.
My support for VStep, yes, but if VStep is a bit more generous with us and with our wishes; many times shown in this forum, and reasonable wishes, I think.
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Tinchu,
If you had bothered to look, you would know that bsm2003 has been a forum member since 2008. He has probably noticed the HUD and the other things you mentioned.
You, on the other hand, are not a registered user of either game.
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thats a lot of writing there guys
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Sorry my Ozzie mate you are way off the mark here! As I have said like my other friend here I too have spent a lot of money upgrading FSX to an awesome product. It too came from a small base price just like this game. I think what we are all saying is once the bugs are ironed out we are more than willing to pay for add ons to this game as well.
Nick.
As I have said above I will put my money where my mouth is. I have purchased the latest add on to SSE this morning. So far I find it pretty good and can't wait for more vessels and missions. Vstep: keep working on those bugs and we will have a great product. Keep up the good work.
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Hello, bsm2003. You can be sure that I`m very patient person and I support VStep in this project. I`m not interested in ruining this project. At any case VStep can ruin or succeed in this project with their policy, not a few hotheaded people in this forum.
You are a professional seaman. I don`t know exactly what are you expecting about a game simulator. I don`t know either if you knew the previous editions of ship simulator. In SS08 you had a complete information on the top of the screen. The map; which never was a wonderful thing, included more information than now. It had many icons on the bottom right corner on the screen with many functions. It had too more sight options. You could change the settings without to abandon a mission...
I have been playing this game since 2008. I have The standard and New Horizons. They(V-Step) can only do so much at a time. I Cannot Run 2008 due to the fact Windows 7 wont run it on my computer. I gladly paid the money for the chance to get Extremes. I have had very little problems with it. Most problems with the actual running of the game are due to hardware not meeting the specs. If you had paid attention to what I said I bought it for the mere fact that since I am physically unable to get back on the water I use it and pretend I'm right in the boat or ship for therapy purposes. And My avatar is a Scanned Copy of my License. I couldn't figure out if you were asking a question or making a statement even though you wrote it as a statement.
Yes, of course, I know your answer and the moderators answer... In next patch... without to specify what patch.
You must admit, at least, that is not a good business policy to release a new version and that version be less playable than previous version.
Less playable is in the eye of the person playing. It runs perfect on my computer and has done so since it was released. It's a sim that lets you drive boats. plain and simple. If you have ever spent time working a harbor you would know that the majority of the knuckle heads out on the water don't have a clue what there doing. That is not a reference to the Pros. That is a reference to the id10t's that get on pleasure craft and think they own the water.
My support for VStep, yes, but if VStep is a bit more generous with us and with our wishes; many times shown in this forum, and reasonable wishes, I think.
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Sorry, bsm2003. Of course, I didn`t pretend bother to you. Perhaps my english is not very good on expressions sometimes.
When I talk about the Ship Simulator Extremes is less playable than Ship Simulator 2008, I`m talking about the options to make different actions. In SS08, for instead, we had more options and informations than now. It had, for instead a rudimentary radar which worked simultaneously with the nautical chart. I used the walkthrough mode to see, from the helmsman the two images (chart and radar) removing the image on the top right corner. It was more realistic. You could do the functions of the helmsman and the officer watching those displays. I talk from the point of view, I think, the simulation gamer. There are others things like this that we are missing in this simulator. Not only more "nautical issues", but software utilities, to make more comfortable the life of the "long-suffering" gamer.
I beg your apologizes again and I hope your soon recovery.
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Well said, Vige.
My SILF project got a hit.
(Search for Intelligent Life on the Forum)
Regards,
Marty
I find that quite rude, especially as your a moderator mvsmith.
When someone buys a product or service, they are entitled to their opinion, whether it be right or wrong. To say that these people have "Little Intelligent" as it seems that is what you were refering to, I find wrong.
To the die-hard ship simulator forum lovers, while I understand you may hate people refering FSX to Ship Sim on here, you have to remember that Flight Sim made people interested in simulators in the first place and you will find that many people who have brought Ship Sim is because they got onto simulation through Flight Sim.
Also I think people have every right to compare two "simulator" games together, people do it all the time in real life, for example when buying a car people compare two car manufacturer's together.
What the average Ship Simulator user can't understand is how can one simulator can replicate 'basic' gauges, while another simulator can't. I'm sorry, but it doesn't matter what size company VSTEP is, I think people would rather have a more detailed ship, more gauges to use, or more systems to find out, than have 10+ more basic, useless unrealistic ships, or another scenery.
The simple fact is, this is a game and I think that is what annoys people most of all, is that VSTEP deliberately used 'simulator' in the name to con people into thinking this was a average ship simulator with some basic real life naval training put into the simulator, yet as far as Realism go's all one must do is push the throttle forward and steer, 0% of any real life naval training added.
If it had of been called "Ship Explorer" or "Sea Master" and the whole concept was it being more based around a game than a simulator, I would of expected many people to say that this was a very good game in its own right.
And lastly I hate it when you constantly keep bringing up "this is the best ship simulator on the market", yeah because it's the ONLY ship simulator on the market, minus Virtual Sailor. Just because Ship Simulator is the only ship simulator at the moment, doesn't make it automatically become's the best ship simulator.
What makes a simulator become the best is my opinion is the community which plays it.
Finally, I don't think the community will ever built around this game because everytime someone comes on the forums to express there opinion, you lot, the moderators and die-hard ship sim fans make out their stupid. Even in the flight sim community everyone is allowed to express how they feel about the sim.
Thanks for reading.
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The simple fact is, this is a game and I think that is what annoys people most of all, is that VSTEP deliberately used 'simulator' in the name to con people into thinking this was a average ship simulator with some basic real life naval training put into the simulator, yet as far as Realism go's all one must do is push the throttle forward and steer, 0% of any real life naval training added.
What utter BS my friend. It's your perception of the term and your horror misnomer of being duped by an "evil game developer" that is laughable. Get over it.
You know what I find offensive? FSX. An inferior flight model and physics to IL-2, but yet it is referred to by so many on this forum as the yardstick of flight sims, but it is NOT what it should be. So please, spare us your comparisons vis a vis FSX vs SSE, as you are worshipping a false god - I don't care if you're a pilot, FSX would not be my choice if I was.
Back to SSE. If what you want in a sim becomes reality as per your previous sim purchases, my guess is you will eventually be charged $50 per ship by an external small mod maker, so you can say you have spent thousands on the game. Oh and of course you'll have SOLAS compliance after you purchase the $100 add-on. $30 for lit buoys, $80 for the QM2 and $20 for the port of Blackpool.
Do you see where this is going? VSTEP can only do so much at a time. It's not a huge developer with unlimited funding and resources. It needs the community's support to grow. Not negativity. You did not purchase a commercial grade ship sim.
You paid the equivalent of $40USD for this product. Half the cost of a new release XBOX or PC game. That IS value. I have got my money's worth out of it already. It won't get me in the Merchant Navy, but....that's not what I bought it for! I bought it for fun...
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that's not what I bought it for! I bought it for fun...
BINGO We have a Winner here. That is the only reason to purchase any game TO HAVE FUN!!!!!!!!
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Yes, of course, we have bought SSE because we want to enjoy it. To spend a fun while. We never pretend to be Chief Master, playing with SSE; or plane pilot playing with FS. But at the very beginning to enjoy it we need SEE work in good conditions. In the present situation of the simulator, many times you play... Russian roulette. Many crashes, missions unable to be resolved...
Even more, we are asking for new functions and performances for the simulator because we are "greedy people"; I say this with sense of humour. We want more and more fun... That`s we are trying to spur on VStep with our critics and suggestions.
Greetings.
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To proof that VSTEP actually listens to ShipSim community.. :)
possibility to use the lifeboats.
Autopilot (like in the Virtual Sailor) for long distance passages;
Wawes not restricted in the areas where are the harbour and the part of sea (Marseille, The Solent, etc.), like in the Virtual Sailor... same like option when the wawes are stopped by breakwaters and moles so they cannot run into the inner roadstead of the harbour;
Several large vessels and new sailing areas;
things like lights in the city
A on/off button so we can take on and off lights in the ship ;D
How about Firefighters for a) burning ships missions and b) saluting other vessels e.g. a big Cruiseboat on her maidentrip.
Have a wildlife enviroment of flying birds and marine life.
More realistic ocean wave motions
I only looked in the first 5 pages of the suggestion topic, i beter there are even more ;)
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Vige I do agree from the last post I may of been slightly wrong,
First I can confirm that Simulator can be placed into the Ship Simulator Extremes title as from the dictionary, it does do what the term saids which is, 4b. Representation of the operation or features of one process or system through the use of another
And ship simulator does do that, as it does simulate how a ship would react in various conditions, for example in a thunder storm.
All I was trying to get as, was not to bash Ship Simulator or VSTEP, but all I wanted was just a more complex bridge in terms of graphics, you know like the big VLCC bridge would look like to that of a real oil tanker's bridge, I wouldn't even care if it was just a still image (no moving objects or screens other than the basic ones in which we have in Ship Simulator Extremes already)
I just wanted something to look at, feel like I was there, commanding this massive ship into harbour, or through the rough seas, as at the moment all that appears is what two screens one radar the other a map?
Can I quickly say that i'm not angry about any of the Ship Simulator's as without them there wouldn't be a Ship Simulator on the market today, I was just hoping with the release of "Extremes" we would see a more graphical, detailed bridge for the first time on the larger ships in game.
Other than that I am quite happy with the simulator/game, i'm holding off from playing it at the moment due to the problems with graphics cards as I read about it somewhere, and there being problems with even high end machines not being able to run SSE smoothly.
I didn't mean to argue with you Vige, nor try and make you hate the game, as I see you are a great fan of the series, I was meerly trying to explain how I felt at the time of writing when I had the problems and what I thought was a lack of attention from the designers to the game which so many of us like.
I've said my part, just hope SSE turns itself around into the marvel its meant to be, Ship Sim 2008 was the same and look where that turned out.
Thanks for reading,
CaptainM
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As an old chap who actually spent many years at sea I find no real problem with the wheelhouses of the ships in the game. You see, for example, my first ship, the M.V. "Interpreter" had a wheelhouse containing the following equipment:- One steering wheel with telemotor, one magnetic steering compass, one clock, one helm indicator, and two speaking tubes, one going down to the masters bunk side and one going up to the standard compass (again magnetic) on the monkey island, and five windows facing for'd. The engine room telegraphs were outside the wheelhouse and the chartroom was behind the wheelhouse accessible by leaving the wheelhouse and walking outside to the chartroom door. ::) If the mate on watch were found by the master even leaning on anything and not keeping a very good lookout there would be trouble. Chairs to sit on??, you must be seriously joking. :'( As to fiddling about with any kind of controls, that was easy, there were none to fiddle with. :doh: Ain't life grand. :o
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As an old chap who actually spent many years at sea I find no real problem with the wheelhouses of the ships in the game. You see, for example, my first ship, the M.V. "Interpreter" had a wheelhouse containing the following equipment:- One steering wheel with telemotor, one magnetic steering compass, one clock, one helm indicator, and two speaking tubes, one going down to the masters bunk side and one going up to the standard compass (again magnetic) on the monkey island, and five windows facing for'd. The engine room telegraphs were outside the wheelhouse and the chartroom was behind the wheelhouse accessible by leaving the wheelhouse and walking outside to the chartroom door. ::)
Hi Angus,
My first ship as a cadet was exactly like what you have mentioned. We accepted every thing the way it was and as technology took over we eventually accepted the conveniences (and complexities) of the modern day integrated bridge systems.
I suppose it is the same with simulators when it comes to choosing what really pumps the adrenaline in you. I prefer to be brief and rather say it with pictures !!
SSE
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_5qPQbQNNNuQ/TPU6RM_FH_I/AAAAAAAADn4/vEOOM8jqvLE/s640/SSE%20controls.jpg)
Flight Simulator
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_5qPQbQNNNuQ/TPU6RCzTHJI/AAAAAAAADn8/hKR0iUi52_4/s640/Flight%20Simulator.jpg)
Space Shuttle Simulator
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_5qPQbQNNNuQ/TPU6RgPC1pI/AAAAAAAADoA/ok5kkqNZ07g/s640/Space%20Shuttle.jpg)
Regards
vin_sun
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We can all be honest with one thing, Ship Simulator is beautiful, the environments in it are amazing, and the graphics are superb.
I think what most people are annoyed of is that like vin_sun showed, the large ships (cruise ships) have a very limited control functionality. And in terms of graphics on the bridge I think it lacks that graphical impact that one see's on the real life ships.
Im only saying this for the large ships, the majority of the small ships as far as I know simulate that of the real thing and do look very nice, it's just for many of your non-hardcore fan, the big ships are always the favourites and its just a shame tha they don't look like (from the bridge) the same as they do to their real life counterparts.
But other than that, im very impressed with the game.
CaptainM
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All good CaptainM, you seem to like elements of SSE and that's great. I do too ;)
The original poster of this thread's issue was that the 'game' was not SOLAS compliant, see the Wiki definition for details.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Convention_for_the_Safety_of_Life_at_Sea
This is a HUGE treaty that covers endless aspects of sea safety and is a great thing. But for someone to come along and rant about how ripped off they were that it wasn't included in SSE is unreasonable beyond any doubts and has caused a great deal of confusion here. I would have loved to have seen the poster's suggestions on exactly how he would have implemented all conventions into SSE without missing anything and at the same time not bog down VSTEP from carrying out their planned updates which will mature the game.
I think that realism in sims is a great thing. Just look at the interfaces for DCS:Ka-50 and A10 Warthog now, clickable cockpits and proper startup sequences are really bringing that genre along and that will permeate into other sims like this one as time goes on. VSTEP has created a wave system that is not available in other games.
1C is working on a dynamic weather system for Storm of War that includes turbulence and storm cloud formations that will making flying on par with real flying bar the G forces that are exerted on the pilot.
And not long from now - we will wonder what we were arguing about - because it will be here.
Happy simming :captain:
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like vin_sun showed, the large ships (cruise ships) have a very limited control functionality.
..... and that is what I like about SSE. The pictures I posted were certainly not to undermine SSE. It was more to emphasize the simplicity of the controls when compared to the consoles of the ones in FSX and Space Shuttle.
CaptainM , you certainly have the freedom to voice your opinion and please do not view my above clarification as offensive. I do not wish to use this Forum as a "battleground for words".
Vstep in developing Ship Simulator has followed the KISS principle -
Keep It Simple Sam - when it comes to controls.
I think most of us when on a mission with either SS 2008 or SSE are hardly "on the bridge". I am sure most prefer the "bird's eye view" and by default SS always opens any mission with an external view.
As a seafarer, I join many others who are thankful to Vstep for having produced a simulator for the merchant marine community.
And as BSM2003 puts it ... "I see it as a way to relax and treat it as therapy" . With an attitude as such one can happily look forward to being involved with SS on a daily basis and have something to smile about !!!
Regards
vin_sun
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Hey Vige,
I read the SOLAS Wiki link you sent me, thats a LOT of items to include for a very small developer to do. Not even Microsoft has all the safety features included in today's flying present in their simulator's (for example de-icing the aircraft in wintery conditions).
Maybe add some safety things into Ship Simulator, but VSTEP have already done that with the life boats.
And to be honest who really wants to be going through all the lists and requirements, I just want to set off and sail.
Sorry I didn't look at the thread more closely, and sorry for having a go, if I had of understood what the thread maker what talking about, I would of had a very different stance.
Also I agree Vin_Sun about the keeping it simple bit and I do like it that way, I just wanted a bit more control with this massive thing, like to control how to balance it using water, by controling how much water I want in either side of it etc.. and I was more meaning graphically, by just placing images of like computer screens and buttons on the bridge etc.. it would make it look like its real life counter part.
But I don't really mind, these could just be considered improvements, i'm happy with SSE as i've said before and don't mind about what is improved as I just like to sail the sea and look at the environment :)
CaptainM